Need some thoughts regarding prelim gen surgery positions

[dknc75]

I've seen a similar question in the other thread but the post never got a reply back...

What is the advantage of applying to gen surgery prelim positions (along with their respective categorical positions) when they are available during the scramble? And as the other post asked, does this show the programs that you are not confident in your application? Is this even significant?

My thoughts are that applying to both a categorical AND prelim position at the same program would show that I am interested in surgery and only surgery (i.e. that I won't fall back on a less competitive specialty if surgery does not work out). What are your thoughts on this?

Thanks

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[Winged Scapula]

I don't think anyone cares or puts much thought into it...they probably figure you just want a spot. The most I would wonder about is whether or not its THIS specific program you really want, or just any position.

It doesn't increase or decrease your chances.

 

[JackADeli]

...What is the advantage of applying to gen surgery prelim positions (along with their respective categorical positions) when they are available during the scramble? ...
My thoughts are that applying to both a categorical AND prelim position at the same program would show that I am interested in surgery and only surgery ...

I think no advantage for you, all advantage to the program. During the scramble, they know you are looking for a job.... you pose a position that says, "I will take anything for the year". You are not alone, I think numerous scramblers assume the same position. By accepting either you make the decision easier for the program. They don't have to decide between applicant "A" or "U" for that categorical spot. They can accept applicant "A" for categorical and you for prelim..... their stable is full.

JAD

 

[dknc75]

So by applying to both a prelim and a categorical position, I'm effectively taking myself out of the rank list for a categorical to a equally qualified applicant? If this is so, then would programs even bother to rank anyone who applies for both positions? (i.e they are assured a "warm body" for the prelim spot that usually don't get filled, so why bother ranking this applicant?)

 

[JackADeli]

So by applying to both a prelim and a categorical position, I'm effectively taking myself out of the rank list for a categorical to a equally qualified applicant? If this is so, then would programs even bother to rank anyone who applies for both positions? (i.e they are assured a "warm body" for the prelim spot that usually don't get filled, so why bother ranking this applicant?)

First, I thought the OP was in reference to scramble. Though, in re-reading it, I could be mis-interpreting. If talking scramble, not sure a match/rank order list exists in scramble but I haven't been in match for awhile. If you tell a program up front you will accept a prelim spot, then yes, for all intense purpose you may be taking yourself out of the running for a scramble categorical position.

In actual match, programs will often double list applicants into prelim & cat to assure full cadre. But, being both pre-lim & cat applicant may increase chance of matching into a job but decrease chance of matching categorical. During primary match, I would not rank pre-lim. If you are reasonable candidate, you could always scramble pre-lim. I never saw any real advantage to ranking pre-lim. To do so, just gives programs more flexibility in how they choose residents....

JAD

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

So by applying to both a prelim and a categorical position, I'm effectively taking myself out of the rank list for a categorical to a equally qualified applicant?

No, I don't think so, but you would be taking yourself out of the scramble, since you're applying for a prelim year through the match. Even if you fail to match categorical, the odds are pretty good you would match for a prelim spot.

Whereas if an applicant only applied to categorical slots, they would be scrambling if they failed to match. This could be either very bad (i.e. end up with no spot, or a prelim at a notoriously malignant program), or very good (scramble into a categorical spot).

 

[Winged Scapula]

I think you are reading too much into this.

IMHO you should apply for both Categorical and Prelim at the same program only if you would choose Prelim at THAT program over a Categorical elsewhere.

When you make your rank list, list all Categoricals you would be interested in first and then all the Prelims last, or don't list any Prelims and take your chances in the scramble.

The advantage of applying for Prelim positions over taking them in the scramble is that you have some choice over location and program. However, bear in mind that some programs do not take Non-Designated Prelims in the match and just use the match for the designated spots, using the scramble for the NDP.

There is no evidence that if you rank both Categorical and Prelim at the same program that the program will rank someone else over simply because of the fact that you applied for both tracks.

Programs will evaluate your application and if they interview you, your interview behavior and personality. If they like you enough, they will rank you Categorical. If they think you are adequate, but not quite Categorical material or they have better candidates, they may rank you as Prelim (if they indeed even submit a rank list for Prelims).