Need your advise on this one. Serious advises appreciated.

[jacobus1919]

Good day.

It isn't totally a good day. But, first off, I am an IMG, with a year of graduation of 2013. First off, I wanted to apply this year's match with all my documents ready including specialty specific LoRs and etc. Already had my step 1 and Step 2 CS with first attempts. I was waiting for my Step 2 Ck score and then a huge bummer occur I failed CK. So, currently devastated but I promised myself I wouldnt give up that easy. I am totally keen on applying to FM programs and Only FM, Since currently I am a 2nd year Family Medicine Resident in my home country, so I love Family Medicine.

My problem now is should I apply now, then retake CK either late December or January? Or push back to next year to apply with a CK score and Step 3 score? Sadly now I know my grandfather and grandmother will be highly disappointed (Both of them are attendings (pediatrics and IM respectively), at two hospitals where I am really interested in applying to for a FM spot.. They have waited for my application this year).

So, should I apply to the hospitals now and retake CK ASAP before ROL? or just postpone and apply as a fresh applicant next year?

P.S. while both my grandparents are US citizens, I as an applicant need a visa. (currently I do not care which visa I get.) And I just want to train in the US to be the best Family practice doctor I can be.

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[ddjamb]

Sorry to hear about your CK results. Keep pushing. If you decide to apply this year, you will have to take CK by the end of December to get your ECFMG certification before ROL. December 31st is the deadline. NOT January. On the other hand, getting IVs without the ECFMG certification will be challenging (but you never know).

in MHO, you need to retake the CK ASAP, show improvement and Take step 3 right away and apply next year with a complete application.

Best of luck

 

[jacobus1919]

Thank you for the advise @ddjamb I appreciate your response.

Does this mean if I decide to push through this match season I should be taking CK the latest date should be December 31st?

 

[SlyWalker]

Do you really want to risk taking CK in a hurry after a failure?

 

[jacobus1919]

Do you really want to risk taking CK in a hurry after a failure?

I am thinking of taking it later though..

 

[NotAProgDirector]

I am assuming you have not actually applied to any programs yet. You would have had the option to apply and then release your CK score when available, but from your post it seems you haven't spent any money yet.

What to do is tough. You're already very late in the application season. Many programs have already reviewed applications and offered IV slots, may be full, and may not even be looking at applications any more. So if you apply now, you might be turned down because of your CK failure, or because you applied late. If anyone decides to interview you, then passing CK becomes critical. Rank lists are due end of Feb, and it usually takes 3-4 weeks to get a score back, so you'd need to take CK by mid January to be safe. Which raises the question of whether you can pass it with only 2+ months to study. Failing it again would be very bad. But many programs might "lock in" their rank lists long before the deadline, and if your score isn't back by then they might drop you.

My thoughts
Option #1: if you haven't applied yet, I probably wouldn't and would regroup and apply again next year. Take the time to study and pass CK. A late application now isn't likely to generate many IV's, especially with a failed CK.

Option #2: (Not possible, but putting it out there for others) You could have applied on Sept 15th without CK. Programs would know that you were taking CK and a score would be back before ranking. Some might have decided to interview you without it. Applying on time without CK and then adding it when available is a much better strategy than applying later when you have a passing CK result. If you had done this, then you would NOT release this failed result, take it again, and then release when you had a passing score. But, this simply isn't an option for you without a time machine.

Option #3: Plan for SOAP. Take CK again now, pass it. Apply to the minimum number of programs now so that you qualify for SOAP (might as well), then be ready with a full application for SOAP.

In all cases, I'd be careful taking S3. I see plenty of people say they are going to take S3 to "prove" something, and then fail it. S3 is designed to be taken after you complete an internship. It can be hard to study out of a book for it. Failing S3 will hurt you further, and you don't need it unless you want/need an H visa.

There's no perfect / best choice here.

 

[jacobus1919]

I am assuming you have not actually applied to any programs yet. You would have had the option to apply and then release your CK score when available, but from your post it seems you haven't spent any money yet.

What to do is tough. You're already very late in the application season. Many programs have already reviewed applications and offered IV slots, may be full, and may not even be looking at applications any more. So if you apply now, you might be turned down because of your CK failure, or because you applied late. If anyone decides to interview you, then passing CK becomes critical. Rank lists are due end of Feb, and it usually takes 3-4 weeks to get a score back, so you'd need to take CK by mid January to be safe. Which raises the question of whether you can pass it with only 2+ months to study. Failing it again would be very bad. But many programs might "lock in" their rank lists long before the deadline, and if your score isn't back by then they might drop you.

My thoughts
Option #1: if you haven't applied yet, I probably wouldn't and would regroup and apply again next year. Take the time to study and pass CK. A late application now isn't likely to generate many IV's, especially with a failed CK.

Option #2: (Not possible, but putting it out there for others) You could have applied on Sept 15th without CK. Programs would know that you were taking CK and a score would be back before ranking. Some might have decided to interview you without it. Applying on time without CK and then adding it when available is a much better strategy than applying later when you have a passing CK result. If you had done this, then you would NOT release this failed result, take it again, and then release when you had a passing score. But, this simply isn't an option for you without a time machine.

Option #3: Plan for SOAP. Take CK again now, pass it. Apply to the minimum number of programs now so that you qualify for SOAP (might as well), then be ready with a full application for SOAP.

In all cases, I'd be careful taking S3. I see plenty of people say they are going to take S3 to "prove" something, and then fail it. S3 is designed to be taken after you complete an internship. It can be hard to study out of a book for it. Failing S3 will hurt you further, and you don't need it unless you want/need an H visa.

There's no perfect / best choice here.

Thank you for your reply. I highly appreciate your response. True though I am leaning on option #1. If I pick option 1 would I be considered a fresh applicant next season? Given my YOG i would be now 5 or 6 years from graduation, would it still be good?

 

[jacobus1919]

Do I need to withdraw the Eras documents? Or Should I still be be a fresh applicant if I apply next year? Given I did not submit any application to any program?? And will my LoRs be available next year?

 

[AdmiralChz]

Thank you for your reply. I highly appreciate your response. True though I am leaning on option #1. If I pick option 1 would I be considered a fresh applicant next season? Given my YOG i would be now 5 or 6 years from graduation, would it still be good?

To be completely honest, your years since graduation are the biggest hurdle here. It’s going to be hard to break into a US residency, but not impossible. You absolutely need a pass on both Step 2s.

 

[ddjamb]

If you bought 2018 token and never submitted any application, next year you will be considered as a "re-applicant" for ECFMG only, not to programs (and I don't think they care anyway)
Your documents will be still available for reuse for 2019 Match. Once you buy the 2019 Token, ECFMG will provide you your documents to upload (or not).

PS: the reason I said, in my previous post, that the deadline is December 31st to (re)take the steps for this match is because they do not administer exams during the first 2 weeks of January. So you are left with the 2nd half of January and then, there is a risk for your certification not to be ready before ROL deadline.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

There is lots of confusion about being a "reapplicant". Programs can't tell if you have applied in previous years, unless they manually check their applicant lists. That's unlikely. As mentioned above, each year that passes from your YOG decreases your chance of matching, because some/many programs use some sort of YOG filter.

From an application standpoint there is nothing to lose from trying to SOAP this year. The major problem is rushing to retake CK. Not only do you want to pass, you want the best score possible. Taking time to retake the exam might be the best strategy.

 

[jacobus1919]

To be completely honest, your years since graduation are the biggest hurdle here. It’s going to be hard to break into a US residency, but not impossible. You absolutely need a pass on both Step 2s.

That is true, currently though i am in my home residency in FM and will also apply as FM for the match... already passed CS though 1st pass..

 

[jacobus1919]

There is lots of confusion about being a "reapplicant". Programs can't tell if you have applied in previous years, unless they manually check their applicant lists. That's unlikely. As mentioned above, each year that passes from your YOG decreases your chance of matching, because some/many programs use some sort of YOG filter.

From an application standpoint there is nothing to lose from trying to SOAP this year. The major problem is rushing to retake CK. Not only do you want to pass, you want the best score possible. Taking time to retake the exam might be the best strategy.

If you dont mind me asking I should apply then to 10 programs and probably take my CK at the end of December or January then opt for SOAP? Can you use ERAS documents for SOAP?? Could I ask the latest time I could take Step 2 CK for SOAP?

 

[jacobus1919]

So If I try for SOAP I can take CK January 17/18 prolly have ecfmg certified by Mid February when ROL opens? Then try for SOAP maybe.

I did hear some things that being a reapplicant for a match would hinder or lower your chance of matching each year passing? How true is this?!

 

[AdmiralChz]

I did hear some things that being a reapplicant for a match would hinder or lower your chance of matching each year passing? How true is this?!

This was literally just answered above.

It’s not the reapplication status that lowers your chances it’s MUCH more the increasing years of graduation. It will only become less and less likely you will match in the US.

All documents in ERAS automatically roll over for SOAP, but you have to participate in the match to the enter into SOAP.

 

[SlyWalker]

So If I try for SOAP I can take CK January 17/18 prolly have ecfmg certified by Mid February when ROL opens? Then try for SOAP maybe.

I am very sorry to sound mean but you have a very little chance of matching in SOAP being an IMG, CK failure and due to your YOG.
You might end up hurting your chances further for next season by rushing to pass CK for SOAP.
IMHO the best strategy for you will be to get some clinical experience in the US with help from your grandparents which will certainly help with your application. This will also give you time to pass CK with a good score. CK score also matters for an IMG.

 

[jacobus1919]

This was literally just answered above.

It’s not the reapplication status that lowers your chances it’s MUCH more the increasing years of graduation. It will only become less and less likely you will match in the US.

All documents in ERAS automatically roll over for SOAP, but you have to participate in the match to the enter into SOAP.

Yeah, I might as well postpone applying to the Match until next year. A question though, would having current residency experience in FM be beneficial to entering FM into the US? would this benefit or increase chances given the fact a residency in FM in home country add a bit of a benefit since, I would go into applying into FM match as well?

I am very sorry to sound mean but you have a very little chance of matching in SOAP being an IMG, CK failure and due to your YOG.
You might end up hurting your chances further for next season by rushing to pass CK for SOAP.
IMHO the best strategy for you will be to get some clinical experience in the US with help from your grandparents which will certainly help with your application. This will also give you time to pass CK with a good score. CK score also matters for an IMG.

I know that matching in SOAP with incomplete Steps + no ECFMG certification is a zero chance into matching even in SOAP.

That is my plan though, is to just ditch the idea on applying this year and do it next year.
Plan is also to get USCE in the US, but this will depend on approval from my current FM residency training program. I do plan to get some US experience preferably an FM US experience, since I would want to apply into FM next match season. To add to my current FM LoR (Chairman and Program director of current FM home residency).