Neurologist or Neurosurgery?

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FAulZann

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well guys,i'm confused between neurologist and neurosurgery.what's the difference between these two specialists since i'm interested to know more about these.Hope u guys can help me here with explanations and some good advices.
 
A Neurologist is not a surgeon. It is only a four year residency. Think of it like an internal medicine doctor for the brain. Who would you go to if you had a Parkinson's disease but did not need surgery? A neurologist.

Here is an even better explanation:

http://www.aamc.org/students/cim/specialties.htm
 
One might add that the cultures of the specialties have significant differences. Neurosurgeons, like all surgeons, tend to be interventionalists first. "What's the problem and how can I fix it?" Neurologists tend to be a little more intellectual, thoughful and contemplative. Neurology has had a reputative has a "diagnostic specialty" but this isn't really fair and is also out-dated. (This also might be a little out of date, but a surgeon pejorative for internist is "flea" because they buzz around a lot and make a lot of noise without doing anything. 'Course, internists have plenty of their own terms for surgeons, I'm sure.)
 
deuist said:
like "cutters"
See, I wouldn't really take that as an insult. I also don't think the line that, "A surgeon is sometimes wrong but never in doubt" is an insult either.
 
Neurosurgery is much harder to get into than neurology (avg matched applicant Step 1 of low to mid 230s versus low to mid 210s). Neurosurgeons work 20-50% more than neurologists and make twice as much. The already mentioned being a surgeon for the CNS versus being an IM guy for the CNS.
 
FAulZann said:
well guys,i'm confused between neurologist and neurosurgery.what's the difference between these two specialists since i'm interested to know more about these.Hope u guys can help me here with explanations and some good advices.

They're very different specialties, as has already been stated.

First of all, the route to each is completely different after medical school. Neurologists do a medicine internship for a year, and then three years of neurology residency. Neurosurgeons do a surgery internship for a year and then 5-6 years of neurosurgery residency.

Their typical days are also completely different. A neurosurgeon's typical day starts between 5-6am with brief rounds on the patients: basically, are they still alive, and if so, is their basic neuro exam improving or worsening, are there any active general medical problems (for which medicine will be consulted), and what needs to be done that day? +/- breakfast, then to the OR from 7:30am till all the cases are done for the day, which can be anywhere from noon to midnight or later. While you're in the OR, patient care is handled by the junior residents or PA's. Attendings will operate on certain days of the week, and have clinic on the remaining days. Residents generally follow the above schedule every day, with perhaps one half-day devoted to clinic, a full day if you're a junior.

In the academic setting, a neurologist's typical day starts at 7-8am with rounds, which extend until noon or later. Patients are presented and discussed fully, as are all their treatment options. Particular attention is paid to localizing the patient's lesion, and it's a point of pride among neurologists to know the answer before seeing the scans. Neuro exams tend to be more detailed, and the neuro team will handle many of the less complicated medical problems themselves, mainly consulting the medicine subspecialties for complicated problems. At some point in the morning, neuroradiology rounds take place, where all the MRIs and CTs are examined with the radiologist. Afternoons are devoted to clinic, and the day ends sometime between 4 and 6pm.

Their approach to patients is also very different. Neurosurgeons lose interest quickly if the patient's problem is not amenable to surgery. They will follow a patient only as long as there is a problem potentially needing surgery, or post-operatively until all problems associated with the surgery have resolved to the extent that they ever will.

Neurologists, on the other hand, generally continue to follow their patients from the point of referral onward until the patient dies or changes doctors.

The bottom line is not so much whether your interest is in neuroscience, but rather whether you prefer surgery to medicine. Answer that question first, and the rest will be easy.
 
Samoa said:
They're very different specialties, as has already been stated.

First of all, the route to each is completely different after medical school. Neurologists do a medicine internship for a year, and then three years of neurology residency. Neurosurgeons do a surgery internship for a year and then 5-6 years of neurosurgery residency.

Their typical days are also completely different. A neurosurgeon's typical day starts between 5-6am with brief rounds on the patients: basically, are they still alive, and if so, is their basic neuro exam improving or worsening, are there any active general medical problems (for which medicine will be consulted), and what needs to be done that day? +/- breakfast, then to the OR from 7:30am till all the cases are done for the day, which can be anywhere from noon to midnight or later. While you're in the OR, patient care is handled by the junior residents or PA's. Attendings will operate on certain days of the week, and have clinic on the remaining days. Residents generally follow the above schedule every day, with perhaps one half-day devoted to clinic, a full day if you're a junior.

In the academic setting, a neurologist's typical day starts at 7-8am with rounds, which extend until noon or later. Patients are presented and discussed fully, as are all their treatment options. Particular attention is paid to localizing the patient's lesion, and it's a point of pride among neurologists to know the answer before seeing the scans. Neuro exams tend to be more detailed, and the neuro team will handle many of the less complicated medical problems themselves, mainly consulting the medicine subspecialties for complicated problems. At some point in the morning, neuroradiology rounds take place, where all the MRIs and CTs are examined with the radiologist. Afternoons are devoted to clinic, and the day ends sometime between 4 and 6pm.

Their approach to patients is also very different. Neurosurgeons lose interest quickly if the patient's problem is not amenable to surgery. They will follow a patient only as long as there is a problem potentially needing surgery, or post-operatively until all problems associated with the surgery have resolved to the extent that they ever will.

Neurologists, on the other hand, generally continue to follow their patients from the point of referral onward until the patient dies or changes doctors.

The bottom line is not so much whether your interest is in neuroscience, but rather whether you prefer surgery to medicine. Answer that question first, and the rest will be easy.
Excellent, detailed description by the last poster. I have to say, though, that you'll probably be better able to do basic neuroscience research as a neurologist. Neurosurgeons are involved in basic science, especially at UCSF, but in general neurology would be a better choice for an MD-PhD or other heavily basic-science research based career. (Obviously, neurosurgeons do the clinical research for their procedures.)
 
Samoa said:
The bottom line is not so much whether your interest is in neuroscience, but rather whether you prefer surgery to medicine. Answer that question first, and the rest will be easy.

👍
 
FAulZann said:
well guys,i'm confused between neurologist and neurosurgery.what's the difference between these two specialists since i'm interested to know more about these.Hope u guys can help me here with explanations and some good advices.
During the third year, I promise the answer to you dilemma will become abundantly clear. 🙂
 
While all the previous posts answer your question better, the old saying is that "neurologists know everything but do nothing, while neurosurgeons know nothing but do everything".
 
zack_morris said:
While all the previous posts answer your question better, the old saying is that "neurologists know everything but do nothing, while neurosurgeons know nothing but do everything".

psychiatrists know nothing and do nothing.


and pathologists know everything and do everything, but are too late.
 
And the old joke: Neurology is the guessing game before the CT results come in. 🙂

(kidding kidding - I'm interested in neuro myself)
 
Iwy Em Hotep said:
And the old joke: Neurology is the guessing game before the CT results come in. 🙂

:laugh: During my Neuro rotation, I was always frustrated to spend hours on 1 patient trying to localize the lesion when the CT results were in the computer already waiting for us. I guess I have the surgeon mentality. 😉
 
FAulZann said:
well guys,i'm confused between neurologist and neurosurgery.what's the difference between these two specialists since i'm interested to know more about these.Hope u guys can help me here with explanations and some good advices.

is there some reason you couldn't have just looked this up yourself? Honestly!
 
hey thanks guys.sure help me a lot.and for ur question GregMD,this is the biggest site for medical student to exchange information and knowledge about medical field.And u can see all the answers that i get from my question.Is there any reason why i cannot ask question like that in this forum???
 
Brainsucker said:
'Course, internists have plenty of their own terms for surgeons, I'm sure.)

a while back when i was following an oncologist, the topic of surgeons came up and he joked that surgery was a rather non-cognitive speciality... heh. i never knew that there was any tension between the 2 until i started following them around.
 
fun8stuff said:
a while back when i was following an oncologist, the topic of surgeons came up and he joked that surgery was a rather non-cognitive speciality... heh. i never knew that there was any tension between the 2 until i started following them around.
People will group up based on anything. There's a great Gawande article about that.
 
I am interested in psychiatry/neurology. I am also interested in sleep disorders.

Qs about about neurology:
Neurology: is this specialty lifestyle friendly?
is this specialty competitive (residencies)?
what is the salary?

as a neurologist, would a neurologist never ever have to do anything related to surgery? I am asking because I have poor vision (cataract on my left eye due to a detached retina- aka almost blind in left eye) thus preventing me from anything surgery, detail, precision related. Would neurology be out for me b/c of my vision?
Thanks
 
klptvf said:
I am interested in psychiatry/neurology. I am also interested in sleep disorders.

Qs about about neurology:
Neurology: is this specialty lifestyle friendly?
is this specialty competitive (residencies)?
what is the salary?

as a neurologist, would a neurologist never ever have to do anything related to surgery? I am asking because I have poor vision (cataract on my left eye due to a detached retina- aka almost blind in left eye) thus preventing me from anything surgery, detail, precision related. Would neurology be out for me b/c of my vision?
Thanks


Neurology is generally a 9-5 job. However, you will be on call and will have to do neuro exams for the coma patients.
Matching into neuro is not difficult---you aren't applying for neurosurgery here.
The salary runs from $150,000-$240,000 for the middle 50% (see the AAMC Career's in Medicine website for more detail).
You will never perform surgery as a neurologist (Read the previous posts).
Get your retina looked at. If not too late, an ophthalmologist might be able to reattach it.
Are you a medical student or a pre-med? The reason I ask is because many medical schools require that their students be able perform physical work, including surgery.
 
How many schools do have physical requirements? Mine certainly didn't - nor did any of the schools I interviewed at. Sure, I had to have a physical, but since I'd already had mine for the year when I received the forms I just sent them to my doc and she signed them, leaving off the 1 or 2 things she didn't do.
 
deuist said:
Neurology is generally a 9-5 job. However, you will be on call and will have to do neuro exams for the coma patients.
Matching into neuro is not difficult---you aren't applying for neurosurgery here.
The salary runs from $150,000-$240,000 for the middle 50% (see the AAMC Career's in Medicine website for more detail).
You will never perform surgery as a neurologist (Read the previous posts).
Get your retina looked at. If not too late, an ophthalmologist might be able to reattach it.
Are you a medical student or a pre-med? The reason I ask is because many medical schools require that their students be able perform physical work, including surgery.

Thanks for the reply here.
I did have my retina all checked out, thanks though for sharing your advice. I had to have surgery over the summer to retach the retina, it worked, but now I have a cataract as a result from surgery (which i cant have removed because that surgery will likely cause the retina to re detach and leave me completely blind in that eye....now i have nominal vision in my left, i.e. very blurry/fuzzy, but my right eye is fine, and ive adjusted so barely notice). I can, obviously, read, write, drive, etc. with my eyesight as is, and my advisor told me that i shouldnt have problems getting thru med. school with it, but of course, i will never be able to go into a specialty that involves super precise vision for surgery, etc. luckily, i dont want to go into surgery anyway. So, to answer your question, I am a pre med. I hope I can still pursue medicine with my vision, it doesnt cause me trouble now for the most part, unless my right eye (the "good" eye) is closed...

Thanks
 
socuteMD said:
How many schools do have physical requirements? Mine certainly didn't - nor did any of the schools I interviewed at. Sure, I had to have a physical, but since I'd already had mine for the year when I received the forms I just sent them to my doc and she signed them, leaving off the 1 or 2 things she didn't do.

Most schools list technical requirements on their websites which detail the applicant's responsibility to being able to perform minor surgeries, etc... However, I have never seen an application or interview where the subject was brought up; I've only noticed the technical requirements on websites. I also don't know of any schools that require physicals (other than USUHS). I think that so long as you don't have narcolepsy, you'll be fine.

About the eye problems: I remember seeing a story a few months ago about a blind person who graduated from medical school. Anything is possible.
 
Brainsucker said:
People will group up based on anything. There's a great Gawande article about that.

Where can I find that Gawande article?
 
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