Neurology at Boston Medical Center...

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jollyvulcan

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Is there anyone out there who has trained or interviewed at Boston Medical Center for Neurology? If so, I would like to hear what people have heard about the program or people's experiences during interviews or training.

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Hi, there are definetely several strong Neurology programs in Boston, ie Harvard Partners, one of the largest, Tufts, etc . . . I would highly recommend Harvard and Tufts over all others as the residents I have talked to at these programs are very happy, and at Harvard they make you want to spend time in the hospital and of course the excellent research opportunities do not need to be mentioned. Think beyond the northeast area of the US too, there are alot of excellent neuro programs in Penn, CA etc . . .

However, I would recommend that you ask to shadow neurology residents at BU so that you are comfortable with the BU philosophy before hand, I did a neurology elective at BU and was not impressed, the medicine and neurology departments give residents very large patients loads in the hope that this will make them more experienced clinicians, however, most clinician academicians at BU do not teach in the traditional sense i.e. discussing an interesting case with residents, even the medicine and neurology powerpoints are barely understandable and often contain incorrect information, what the attending WILL do is pimp you constantly, what they incorrectly refer to as the socratic method, in the belief that if you are made to feel like an idiot it will make you go home and study, I could have learned more neurology by reading Merritt's and shadowing the nurses on the floors, no joke. . . the atmosphere at BU is very heirarchial and you are expected to behave appropriately subordinate to the attendings who are on the service, many of the attendings feel that plain 'ole education of residents if beneath them and that they residents should know alot already and figure out on their own what they don't know. Having done neurology research at BU I would not consider it very strong nationally compared to other institutions, neurology wise that is, most researchers are focused on getting grants because BU does very little to support the research departments, and I just didn't get the feel that the professors had a passion for research, i.e. most time in the lab talking about social issues etc . . . and there are NO good neurology conferences IMHO, Neurology conference before rounds is basically a neurologist who thinks he knows alot pimping students and residents at 7 or 8 am each day, for one of his questions on rounds I answered correctly and he said no and gave a nonsense answer, and then stopped midsentence when he realized he was wrong! Please do yourself a favor and research why you want to go to BUMC for neurology (or medicine) before hand, it has a rep. for overworking residents and nonexistent teaching.
 
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However, I would recommend that you ask to shadow neurology residents at BU so that you are comfortable with the BU philosophy before hand, I did a neurology elective at BU and was not impressed, the medicine and neurology departments give residents very large patients loads in the hope that this will make them more experienced clinicians, however, most clinician academicians at BU do not teach in the traditional sense i.e. discussing an interesting case with residents, even the medicine and neurology powerpoints are barely understandable and often contain incorrect information, what the attending WILL do is pimp you constantly, what they incorrectly refer to as the socratic method, in the belief that if you are made to feel like an idiot it will make you go home and study, I could have learned more neurology by reading Merritt's and shadowing the nurses on the floors, no joke. . . the atmosphere at BU is very heirarchial and you are expected to behave appropriately subordinate to the attendings who are on the service, many of the attendings feel that plain 'ole education of residents if beneath them and that they residents should know alot already and figure out on their own what they don't know. .


Being a person that went to medical school on the eastern side of the country, and did all of my clinical rotations on the eastern side of the country as well, allow me to just say that this philosophy of teaching residents is pretty much standard for most eastern US residency programs. I did not realize this until I started residency in a western US program.
 
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I confirm this observation as well, I was SHOCKED!! after leaving BU for residency training at a non-northeast SouthWestern hospital, . . . during my first month I saw more resident education and teamwork between faculty and residents then my whole time at BU! Our unoffical BU moto sadly was: See someone be mean to someone, be mean to someone, teach someone to be mean to someone.

The attendings even cared about teaching the med students through case discussions and approaches to clinical problem solving, stuff you can't get out of a book or via "pimping", . . . Some of the more progressive eastern medical schools like Harvard are trying to re-invent their curriculum acknowledging that medical student education is out-dated and ineffective, and overall their residents are happier than most northeast medical schools, if you can . . . definetely go for a western residency program, you will be better rested and get a better education, being a resident shouldn't be a "trial by fire."
 
Is there anyone out there who has trained or interviewed at Boston Medical Center for Neurology? If so, I would like to hear what people have heard about the program or people's experiences during interviews or training.

I feel obliged to answer the comments made by thinkzebras. I suspect your rotation and your information may be dated. As a recent graduate I did not experience any of what you described.The program is very well organized and integrated with a formal didactic day of lectures in addition ot other conferences. The attendings are very approachable and the Chief and Program Director maintain an open door policy. Pediatric Neurology is a strength with excellent teaching. That entire section just joined BU 2 years ago having left Tufts but bringing most of their senior faculty with them. Ask them about how the other Boston Programs are and they will tell you why they came to BU: the patients and the institution.

As far as research is concerned BU ranks as #8 in the US for NIH funding. The residents are given plenty of opportunity to do research and several have publications by the end of residency. They are far above Tufts aand very close to Partners for research funds and recent publications.

My best advice is to look for yourself and decide. As for me, I worked hard but I learned well, got a great fellowship, passed my boards easily and am now faculty at an E.Coast med school. I appreciated everything I learned at BU and don't see much out there that is really much better from my new vantage point. There is no replacement for seeing a lot of patients and this is a BU recognized strength. That is why their residents do so well in fellowship placement and board pass rates.
 
Hi I am new to this forum. I am actually a PGY3 resident in neurology at BUMC. I used this board when I was a med student but have not been back in many years. Then today I was alerted by a friend of mine that is applying to neurology that there was a thread about my residency program.

I have to say that I am completely insulted by the wrong information that has been posted here. The only thing that is accurate in Zebra's post is that BU is in the Northeast.

We work hard but never is it malignant. I feel that the patient load we see is a strength as I have seen pathology that my friends from med school who also went into neurology have not seen. In addition, our relationship with our attendings is great. That business about being told what to do is completely wrong. Our residents run the show with guidance from the attending. I call attendings at all hours of the night(even when they are out of state) and they still say thank you at the end of the conversation. We even socialize outside of the hospital with many of the attendings. Our residents are tight knit group of people who hang out outside of the hospital as well.

As for teaching, we have a dedicated lecture day(protected time free of clinical duties) where we are lectured on a whole host of topics to help prepare us for the national in-service tests and boards. In addition, we have morning report and I have never seen pimping as per Zebra's comments. In addition, the is pediatric conferences, sleep conferences, neurovascular conference(multidisciplinary with neuroradiologists, neurosurgeons and neurologists) and Alzheimer's conference as well.

As for research, BU goes out of their way to find a project that appeals to you. Just this week, I had 2 different attendings approach me about potential projects(one neuromuscular and one in headache) . I was a computer science major and have adopted a project where I can apply my computer skills. I have seen the program director help people work to get their MPH at BU's school of public health on a part time basis to aid in future research endeavors. We are associated with the Framingham study(do a websearch on it).

I normally do not post on these websites but my fellow residents and I have a great deal of pride in our program. When someone writes blatant lies, I feel obliged to respond. But as a reader you have no more reason to believe me than Zebra so I suggest you look for yourself. Visit our website www.bumc.bu.edu/neurology and see the resident page.

And lastly I won't hide behind an anonymous message board screen name. I am willing to give anyone on here my email address if they have any further questions about our program.

And just a piece of advice as you continue on the interview trail. You will hear a lot of things on webpages but the best advice is to look for yourself.

Best of luck!!
 
Hi I am new to this forum. I am actually a PGY3 resident in neurology at BUMC. I used this board when I was a med student but have not been back in many years. Then today I was alerted by a friend of mine that is applying to neurology that there was a thread about my residency program.

I have to say that I am completely insulted by the wrong information that has been posted here. The only thing that is accurate in Zebra's post is that BU is in the Northeast.

We work hard but never is it malignant. I feel that the patient load we see is a strength as I have seen pathology that my friends from med school who also went into neurology have not seen. In addition, our relationship with our attendings is great. That business about being told what to do is completely wrong. Our residents run the show with guidance from the attending. I call attendings at all hours of the night(even when they are out of state) and they still say thank you at the end of the conversation. We even socialize outside of the hospital with many of the attendings. Our residents are tight knit group of people who hang out outside of the hospital as well.

As for teaching, we have a dedicated lecture day(protected time free of clinical duties) where we are lectured on a whole host of topics to help prepare us for the national in-service tests and boards. In addition, we have morning report and I have never seen pimping as per Zebra's comments. In addition, the is pediatric conferences, sleep conferences, neurovascular conference(multidisciplinary with neuroradiologists, neurosurgeons and neurologists) and Alzheimer's conference as well.

As for research, BU goes out of their way to find a project that appeals to you. Just this week, I had 2 different attendings approach me about potential projects(one neuromuscular and one in headache) . I was a computer science major and have adopted a project where I can apply my computer skills. I have seen the program director help people work to get their MPH at BU's school of public health on a part time basis to aid in future research endeavors. We are associated with the Framingham study(do a websearch on it).

I normally do not post on these websites but my fellow residents and I have a great deal of pride in our program. When someone writes blatant lies, I feel obliged to respond. But as a reader you have no more reason to believe me than Zebra so I suggest you look for yourself. Visit our website www.bumc.bu.edu/neurology and see the resident page.

And lastly I won't hide behind an anonymous message board screen name. I am willing to give anyone on here my email address if they have any further questions about our program.

And just a piece of advice as you continue on the interview trail. You will hear a lot of things on webpages but the best advice is to look for yourself.

Best of luck!!

Like JediKnight, I am also a resident at BUMC. I am a PGY-2. I haven't used this board in 2+yrs, since I've applied myself. Initially, I didn't think it was worth replying, b/c no matter what I say, it can be viewed as biased. However, thanks to Methyldopa posting a link to "post-interview impressions" thread from the similar thread in 2004, I was able to get my sign in name and remeber my thoughts as I was applying (here's the link and my very first post as it pertains to BU
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=157250&page=2&highlight=interview+experience
"BU: this one is tough. If somebody wants to share please do. B/c this is what has me in a quandry. I surprisingly liked them. They are totally different from XXX (I intentionally deleted the program name now; it'd be inappropriate for me to comment negatviely on a program where I am not a resident) but i still liked them. They are intense program, hard working -- but they are NOT malignant. I remember interview at BU med and saw despondent faces of students, dark hallways, it almost made me depressed. I DIDN'T see that yesterday. And I was suprised b/c I heard a lot of bad things about BU. But I didn't see it yesterday. I am going to go for a second look and maybe then I'll be able to write something more objective."

That was in December 2004. I did go for the "second look" that year and shadowed neurology resident, to see "BU philosophy" for myself (btw, I am trying to understand what Thinkzebras meant by that one, but more on that later) --> and guess what, I loved it. Two years later, here I am, and you know what, I still love it. I am no longer "suprised" that I liked BU during my interview --> probably b/c rather than to believe outdated information or a post from a former disgruntled medical student, I went and look for myself. What I found was a program that was interested in its residents becoming a well-trained neurologist comfortable dealing w/any pathology; a program that was supportive of its residents and listening to them and acting on their suggestions (like instituting Night Flow, implementing a dedicated lecture day in addition to numerous other multi-specialty conferences that happen during the week; like ensuring that only attendings that are dedicated to the resident education are maintained in their duties of the attendings-of-the months); a program, where attendings are easily approachable in person and on the phone, even when they travel to conferences out-of-state); a program where the research is not only plentiful (btw, once again I am not sure where Thinkzebras got his info from, but BU ranked #8 in research money I believe), but where numerous opportunities provided for the residents to participate and publish/present at the conferences.

W/regard to BU philosophy of "giving residents very large patients loads" I am writing this post as I am on call and have been "horrendously" busy since my call began reading this board, my e-mail, going outside to pick up dinner, and yes, doing 1 ER consult. :eek: :eek:

Anyways, I can go on, but I think I'll be just repeating what JediKnight already said. I am not sure what was the culture of BUMC Neurology program like in the 90's or even before I got here, and thus I can't comment on that. What I can speak for though, is that CURRENTLY and in the last 4 years (when I started thinking about Neurology and looking into programs), BUMC Neuro is nothing what Thinkzebras described. However, I encourage all of you not just to believe me or any other resident/attending/medical student for that matter in any other program --> be pro-active and find out on your own. This way you will make sure that you'll be HAPPY at the place you will spend the next 3-5 yrs of your life.

I am also willing to answer any of your questions about BU and general interveiwing questions. I'll provide my e-mail address to any of you who requests it. Just PM me and I'll happily reply.

Good Luck to you all and Happy New Year!
 
Being a final year resident of this program, I can vouch that there are a lot of positive aspects to training at BMC and the BU Medical Center program. If I could train again I would chose this program.
1) The experience of taking care of patients in three different settings: the VA, a former city hospital and a former university hospital. There are very few programs in the country that train residents in all three types of systems.
2) There are ample opportunities to do research. I have had the mentorship and opportunity to present multiple posters in national and international conferences, and so have many of my co-residents. The attendings are extremely supportive of these endevours. Recent residents have published first author publications in the New England Journal of Medicine and JAMA; others have presented podium presentations at international and national neurology conferences
3) It is well known for placing graduates in excellent fellowships both in New England as well as throughout the country. Residents have been accepted at Columbia, UCSF, Cleveland Clinic, Mayo and so on in every neurological subspeciality. The program leadership will call fellowship programs in support of their residents. On a personal level I got interviews and offers from the very best programs in my subspeciality and I was in the unique position of being able to pick and chose where I wanted to go.
4.) BMC provides care to people from every part of the world as it is obligated to treat anyone irrespective of financial means. As a resident I have seen patients from every continent. The clinical neurology that you see here is extraordinary and has enriched my training.

As a resident I have been extremely happy in this program. I have learnt as much neurology as I could, I have done the research that I only dreamed of doing, worked with the most friendly supportive and nice residents and with extraordinary attendings.
 
Hi, there are definetely several strong Neurology programs in Boston, ie Harvard Partners, one of the largest, Tufts, etc . . . I would highly recommend Harvard and Tufts over all others as the residents I have talked to at these programs are very happy, and at Harvard they make you want to spend time in the hospital and of course the excellent research opportunities do not need to be mentioned. Think beyond the northeast area of the US too, there are alot of excellent neuro programs in Penn, CA etc . . .

However, I would recommend that you ask to shadow neurology residents at BU so that you are comfortable with the BU philosophy before hand, I did a neurology elective at BU and was not impressed, the medicine and neurology departments give residents very large patients loads in the hope that this will make them more experienced clinicians, however, most clinician academicians at BU do not teach in the traditional sense i.e. discussing an interesting case with residents, even the medicine and neurology powerpoints are barely understandable and often contain incorrect information, what the attending WILL do is pimp you constantly, what they incorrectly refer to as the socratic method, in the belief that if you are made to feel like an idiot it will make you go home and study, I could have learned more neurology by reading Merritt's and shadowing the nurses on the floors, no joke. . . the atmosphere at BU is very heirarchial and you are expected to behave appropriately subordinate to the attendings who are on the service, many of the attendings feel that plain 'ole education of residents if beneath them and that they residents should know alot already and figure out on their own what they don't know. Having done neurology research at BU I would not consider it very strong nationally compared to other institutions, neurology wise that is, most researchers are focused on getting grants because BU does very little to support the research departments, and I just didn't get the feel that the professors had a passion for research, i.e. most time in the lab talking about social issues etc . . . and there are NO good neurology conferences IMHO, Neurology conference before rounds is basically a neurologist who thinks he knows alot pimping students and residents at 7 or 8 am each day, for one of his questions on rounds I answered correctly and he said no and gave a nonsense answer, and then stopped midsentence when he realized he was wrong! Please do yourself a favor and research why you want to go to BUMC for neurology (or medicine) before hand, it has a rep. for overworking residents and nonexistent teaching.


I am a PGY-3 resident in neurology at BMC. I’ve never been to website like this before, but someone told me about this horrendously inaccurate account of the BMC neurology program, and I could not let it go uncorrected.

I was fortunate enough to do my preliminary medicine year at BMC, as well as join the BMC neurology family. I do not have one regret about either decision. These past 2.5 yrs have been incredible.

Let’s face it, at any residency program, there will be work that needs to be done. At BMC, there is work that needs to be done. The great part though, is that the work is amazing – we see pathology in patients from all over the world, at all stages of illness; and our attendings are always available, ready, and excited to teach, even at 3am!

Formal lectures are held every Tuesday . We have an entire day of protected time every week that is dedicated to lectures. Our lecturers are guest speakers, our own attendings, or even our own residents. Besides our lecture day, we also have conferences interspersed throughout the week that we attend. We also have chief’s rounds once a week during which we examine and discuss an interesting patient with an attending (usually the chair of neurology).

The thought of a hierarchical atmosphere in BMC neurology is absurd. Our attendings treat us as colleagues, even at this level of training. In the hospital, they give us autonomy to make patient care decisions, but also enthusiastically guide us when necessary and teach regularly. Outside of the hospital, we also interact. I was late for my birthday celebration with some friends last year because I wanted to have drinks with an attending and a few other residents. Hierarchical? No! Family? Yes!

In terms of “pimping”, wow, I actually forgot what it felt like to be “pimped” since I have not experienced it in 2.5 years (especially not at 7 or 8am!).

Residents interested in research have ample opportunity to join interesting projects or even start their own.

Well, I could go on forever about BMC neurology, the excellent education, excellent opportunities, and the family of attendings, residents, rotating students, and support staff; but in the end everyone will decide based on their own needs which program is best for them.

Best of luck! I hope everyone finds a residency program that makes them as comfortable and happy as I feel at BMC neurology!
 
Wow.. seems like the entire BU Neuro dept is here to defend the program :D

Dont worry about a few posts by someone who posted this crap because s/he didnt have a good interview ;) The impression that BU overworks residents and doesnt support research is a load of crap. The program is skewed towards Stroke.

BU is a good program and surely wouldnt go unfilled. Ofcourse its not Partners, Hopkins, U Penn, Columbia, blah blah.. but then that's an entirely different discussion.

Cheers
 
Obviously, I am not a neurology resident at BU, my perspective was based on my observations as a student and my interactions with medicine and neurology residents, many of whom are less than enthusiastic about residency training at BMC . . . It IS well-known that BU treats its medical students very poorly and uses a somewhat sloppy teaching method of intimidating and and insulting its medical students with "pimp" style questions, i.e. very little real-case discussions and poor presentations by residents and facuty who have not taken the time to develop good lecture material, many students and residents are upset with the poor teaching style and treatment of subordinates in general and try to transfer out. While BU does focus on large patient volume, the overly hiearchial structure and legitimization of medical student and resident abuse by attendings prevents the growth of any teamwork which could benefit patient care, if you have ever been on medicine rounds at BU you would know, i.e. attendings and residents getting *angry* with surbordinates who can't answer their trivia correctly, and anger directed at students who have legitimate concerns about patient care at BU, believe me I know, I LOVE to teach and teach med students and interns almost to the point of exhaustion and what is done at BU is not teaching . . . many wish to address this problem, but BU's solution is to do nothing and to talk about the supposed good teaching, which in reality does not exist . . . personally I would never send a family member to BUMC or the Newton Campus, . . . If you have the option go somewhere else for medicine or neurology residency please do so! I wouldn't be surprised if the above posts are from faculty who wish to white-wash their program . . .
 
Obviously, I am not a neurology resident at BU, my perspective was based on my observations as a student and my interactions with medicine and neurology residents, many of whom are less than enthusiastic about residency training at BMC . . . It IS well-known that BU treats its medical students very poorly and uses a somewhat sloppy teaching method of intimidating and and insulting its medical students with "pimp" style questions, i.e. very little real-case discussions and poor presentations by residents and facuty who have not taken the time to develop good lecture material, many students and residents are upset with the poor teaching style and treatment of subordinates in general and try to transfer out. While BU does focus on large patient volume, the overly hiearchial structure and legitimization of medical student and resident abuse by attendings prevents the growth of any teamwork which could benefit patient care, if you have ever been on medicine rounds at BU you would know, i.e. attendings and residents getting *angry* with surbordinates who can't answer their trivia correctly, and anger directed at students who have legitimate concerns about patient care at BU, believe me I know, I LOVE to teach and teach med students and interns almost to the point of exhaustion and what is done at BU is not teaching . . . many wish to address this problem, but BU's solution is to do nothing and to talk about the supposed good teaching, which in reality does not exist . . . personally I would never send a family member to BUMC or the Newton Campus, . . . If you have the option go somewhere else for medicine or neurology residency please do so! I wouldn't be surprised if the above posts are from faculty who wish to white-wash their program . . .

Before we go on like this, let's clarify, who do you have a problem with?
It IS well-known that BU treats its medical students very poorly and uses a somewhat sloppy teaching method of intimidating and and insulting its medical students with "pimp" style questions
Is it BU school of Medicine? Then I suggest you air it out at medstudent forum.

Is it BU medicine department?
...if you have ever been on medicine rounds at BU you would know, i.e. attendings and residents getting *angry* with surbordinates who can't answer their trivia correctly, and anger directed at students who have legitimate concerns about patient care at BU
. Once again Neurology forum is not a way to address this problem.

Other than vague accusation of "neurology residents, many of whom are less than enthusiastic about residency training at BMC" there is nothing of substance you have to say about Neurology at BMC.

I was not a medstudent at BU, but if you took your time to read the replies, you probably would see my initial opinion about BU medshool when I was applying. I can't say anything more or less, but again, would suggest to tak this to medstudent forum and they perhaps can agree/disagree and provide somethng more of substance.

I did not do my prelim year at BU either, so I can't speak of the internal workings of their department either. Perhaps the IM forum will be more of value to you.

Regarding BU Neuro, though, as you can probably see from the above, we are very enthuasiastic about our residency training. And if you think we are faculty, once again, take time to read some of our replies (for example, I have posts from 2004 regarding my interview experiences including BU, which in my calculations would make me PGY-2). Anyways, I'll listen to ONCO, and be done w/it. Happy Holidays everyone :thumbup:
 
Wow, seems like ThinkZebras really had a bad experience. I can only account for what I have experienced as a Neurology resident over the last 6 months. I must say that the faculty is very warm and always enthusiastic about teaching. As in any other inner city hospital this is a busy hospital and Neurology does not escape from that, but definitely it does not get unreasonably busy. Besides, our Chief Residents and Faculty do an excellent job making the schedules work well. In fact, I dont know any resident from any other program that has 2 weekends off every month as we do. At least as for what the BU Neurology residency program regards, all I can say is that what has been reported by ThinkZebras is full of inaccuracies. My best advice to whomever wants to know about a residency program is to go and experience it by yourself. I will be happy to give my e-mail address and contact information for those with questions. Have a happy new year and remember: Primum non nocere (First do no harm).
 
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I for one have no connection to BU in any way shape for form, but for some reason read this thread. All I can say is that keep in mind how dramatically departments and residency programs can change over the years.

What might be a nice place to work at now might have been a crap hole years ago. Keep in mind that faculty turns over often at teaching institutions. I don't think that anybody here stopped in to purposely lie about a particular program, just simply had a bad experience when rotating through as a student and wanted to voice this.

I for one can recall a particular family medicine program I rotated through as a student years ago where if you asked a medical student rotating through about their experience, they all had negative feedback, yet if you asked a resident, they talked the place up like it was Disneyland.

I find it funny how there is always this disconnect between medstudents and housestaff, and housestaff and attendings.
 
First, I must apologize for starting a thread and not keeping up with it but I have been on holiday break and not using the net much so please forgive me.

I'm a 4th yr at BMC currently on the interview trail. The reason I started this thread is because during the course of my interviews I have met a lot of people who have applied to neurology programs in New England in general and Boston in particular but not to BMC. When I have asked why, most people have not given very strong or well-founded answers but tend to respond with vague impressions such as:

1) It is not a strong program
2) The residents are worked excessively hard
3) It is a "city hospital" and "unpleasant place to train"
4) The attendings are not interested in teaching

Given that these were not my impressions during my 4th year rotation, I wanted to see what people who had actually considered or interviewed at the program thought about it so that I might get a better idea of where these sentiments were coming from.

I will not take time here to specifically address ThinkZebras comments about his experience as a rotating MSIV since they are (as someone already pointed out) best addressed within the confines of a medical student forum, but I will say that my experience rotating through neurology was generally positive and I NEVER whitnessed the sort of antagonistic interactions he/she described.

I am still interested in hearing about people's experiences interviewing at BMC Neurology or from people who have applied in the NE but not to BMC.
 
The residents at BU, imho, should refrain from responding to this crap. This sort of gossip is appropriate for a MS1 or MS2. Some of the questions posed, and, answers given, are incredibly immature..

Glad I'm sticking to IM :rolleyes:
 
The residents at BU, imho, should refrain from responding to this crap. This sort of gossip is appropriate for a MS1 or MS2. Some of the questions posed, and, answers given, are incredibly immature..

Glad I'm sticking to IM :rolleyes:

I think jollyvulcan has some valid questions and concerns. Since it is obvious that a number of resident from this program came out of the wood work to defend the place, I think it appropriate for them to reply to his questions directly.

There are tons of programs out there that go un-noticed. Look around this board, we hear all about Partners, UCSF, Hopkins, Mayo, Penn, etc. Why not BU? That is all jollyvulcan is asking.

Likely, BU is not a horrible program. Some of the "bad" things you hear about places are minor frustrations you put up with as a resident.
 
I will go ahead and identify myself as the 4th Year Neurology Clerkship Director at BU School of Medicine. It concerns me that a student had a bad experience on the Clerkship. It is not clear to me if ThinkZebras is a BU student. We have had only one outside student rotator this year, and that student spoke to me at the end of Clerkship and had only praise for the Clerkship. Any student who has a bad experience on the Clerkship should be coming to me early on in the month to discuss any problems. This is clearly stated at Orientation. I encourage ThinkZebras to contact me outside of this forum to discuss any problems he/she had. This would serve, if nothing else, to improve the Clerkship for ThinkZebras' peers. I do not know if I am allowed to give an email address/phone number here, but I will anyway. I can be contacted at [email protected] or 617-638-7963.











Hi, there are definetely several strong Neurology programs in Boston, ie Harvard Partners, one of the largest, Tufts, etc . . . I would highly recommend Harvard and Tufts over all others as the residents I have talked to at these programs are very happy, and at Harvard they make you want to spend time in the hospital and of course the excellent research opportunities do not need to be mentioned. Think beyond the northeast area of the US too, there are alot of excellent neuro programs in Penn, CA etc . . .

However, I would recommend that you ask to shadow neurology residents at BU so that you are comfortable with the BU philosophy before hand, I did a neurology elective at BU and was not impressed, the medicine and neurology departments give residents very large patients loads in the hope that this will make them more experienced clinicians, however, most clinician academicians at BU do not teach in the traditional sense i.e. discussing an interesting case with residents, even the medicine and neurology powerpoints are barely understandable and often contain incorrect information, what the attending WILL do is pimp you constantly, what they incorrectly refer to as the socratic method, in the belief that if you are made to feel like an idiot it will make you go home and study, I could have learned more neurology by reading Merritt's and shadowing the nurses on the floors, no joke. . . the atmosphere at BU is very heirarchial and you are expected to behave appropriately subordinate to the attendings who are on the service, many of the attendings feel that plain 'ole education of residents if beneath them and that they residents should know alot already and figure out on their own what they don't know. Having done neurology research at BU I would not consider it very strong nationally compared to other institutions, neurology wise that is, most researchers are focused on getting grants because BU does very little to support the research departments, and I just didn't get the feel that the professors had a passion for research, i.e. most time in the lab talking about social issues etc . . . and there are NO good neurology conferences IMHO, Neurology conference before rounds is basically a neurologist who thinks he knows alot pimping students and residents at 7 or 8 am each day, for one of his questions on rounds I answered correctly and he said no and gave a nonsense answer, and then stopped midsentence when he realized he was wrong! Please do yourself a favor and research why you want to go to BUMC for neurology (or medicine) before hand, it has a rep. for overworking residents and nonexistent teaching.
 
Typos happen. Not everyone can spell like a spelling bee champion. That being said, paragraphs that are composed of a single gigantic run-on sentence are not generally the most credible sources of information.
 
Personally, I have no experience with the BU Neurology clerkship. I believe that Zebras may have indeed had a very bad experience at BU. Personally, I was verbally harassed and physically attacked by an attending at BU on another clerkship for the duration of my time with him day in and day out, and told in brief that my concerns were unimportant and that BU has an "old school" style, and told bluntly "we torture students" and "we intimidate them to make them learn." they do not take students concerns seriously, I probably should have filed a lawsuit as I had several credble witnesses, but just wanted to get on with my life, and further more in response to insulting comments made mostly to me, and other students which were racist in nature, I was told by the commitee chair investigating it that "we made black jokes in the OR in the 1970's all of the time. . . " PM me if you want info about the treatment of med students at BU, . . . what actually occurs is very different from the image they want to project!

I would agree with Zebras that BU does need to change their medical student program, I don't know many residents there now though, they are probably treated better than med students being high up on the totum pole, :(
 
You should apply to BU Neurology if there is something there that interests you, BU may have a large research fund intake, but remember, this is spread out across a huge educatonal system which includes the Charles Campus, BU is not in the top 20 Neurology wise, at least as far as I know, . . . It is generally viewed as OK to abuse medical students at BU, be we are temp. or transient workers, and the residents are viewed as doing the bulk of work of taking care of patients, as a student you should be aware of the BU "attitude" amoung faculty, which is to take a generally cold and often times mean approach when interacting with students, the though is that what doesn't kill you will make you stronger, there are efforts to try to change this, as some believe it decreases teaching and detrimentally affects patient care, however, the faculty is mostly unresponsive to student concerns, alot of students find the working/teaching environment to be hostile.

just my 2 cents!:oops:
 
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