elliejellybean

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This is kind of a frustrated rant.
So I'm at the point where I have about 16 hours left before I can get my BS in neuro and I've had the sinking realization that with hard science majors you can't do anything with a BS. If I don't get into medical school this cycle... to do anything in the neuro field (I don't want to I'm over *so* over neuro) you need at the very bare minimum a masters. Like I've already decided if I don't get in this cycle I'll try again, but I would need a job to pay for my apartment, loans, etc....I feel like by default I'll end up at Mickey D's to make ends meet like the people from my HS who dropped out. What other options do I have? I've been applying for scribe positions like mad but apparently 48 WPM sucks so :(
 
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Hopeful_vet

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Scribe pay is awful. Any lab tech positions at your university? Also low pay, but better than scribing.


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Hopeful_vet

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I talked to 2 of my professors and they are on a volunteer basis. :lame::thumbdown:
Check your university's jobs page. The core facilities are often hiring. I work as an undergrad in my schools genomics center, and they are frequently hiring.

Core facilities at my school include:
Genomics center
Mass spec center
Flow Cytometry center
NMR center

Things like that.


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JustAPhD

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Definitely not true that you need a masters at the bare minimum. Plenty of entry-level research gigs are available to people with only a BS. You just haven't searched hard enough. With just a BS, the field you 'specialized' in doesn't really matter much. Cell, molecular, neuroscience, etc is honestly all the same in terms of employment because you really don't know anything that you couldn't pick up in a couple of months after graduation. Sure, it may be helpful to have neuro experience if you're applying for a tech job in a neuro lab but it's usually not a necessity.

You can certainly make a career out of science with just a BS, I know friends who went into industry out of college with only BSs and they are doing well now that they have moved up the ladder. It really just depends on your end goal. I knew I wanted to head my own lab, hence the PhD, but that's a long road.
 

thatwouldbeanarchy

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I've been working in clinical research at an academic hospital for the past 4 years and I have a totally unrelated social sciences bachelor's. Although I'm not making bank by any means, I'm making twice what I made as a scribe!
 

freak7

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Definitely not true that you need a masters at the bare minimum. Plenty of entry-level research gigs are available to people with only a BS. You just haven't searched hard enough.
This is definitely not true, at least not on the West coast. The job market in the PNW especially is saturated with hard science degrees and people are applying for jobs they're way overqualified for. Masters degrees get bachelor-level jobs, bachelors degrees get high school diploma jobs.
 
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Mansamusa

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Micky Ds in my area pays more than scribes, haha. I made $20/hr doing research at an academic med center with just a BA (you need to have research experience though- which everyone should accrue during undergrad).

Scribing is pretty exploitative in terms of pay
 
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JustAPhD

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This is definitely not true, at least not on the West coast. The job market in the PNW especially is saturated with hard science degrees and people are applying for jobs they're way overqualified for. Masters degrees get bachelor-level jobs, bachelors degrees get high school diploma jobs.
I mean it's not like the Northeast (where I am) is exactly void of people with hard science degrees...but there still are jobs for BSs. Perhaps the west coast is worse, I don't know.

Edit: Is it harder to find science jobs in general than it ever has been? Most likely, yes. This is especially apparent at the PhD level that you have people essentially becoming perma-postdocs. Many fields are experiencing this, but it's not all doom and gloom as you are making it out to be.
 
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Neuroscience, along with other biological science degress, can be applied outside the field, but you might need to cast a wider net. I personally know bio majors who went into consulting, finance, tech (two neuroscience friends of mine now work at google and facebook) and numerous other careers. These are individuals who graduated my year, and obtained these positions straight from college. If you're persistent, and build a versatile resume, your degree will help you go in whatever direction you want.

This is kind of a frustrated rant.
So I'm at the point where I have about 16 hours left before I can get my BS in neuro and I've had the sinking realization that with hard science majors you can't do anything with a BS. If I don't get into medical school this cycle... to do anything in the neuro field (I don't want to I'm over *so* over neuro) you need at the very bare minimum a masters. Like I've already decided if I don't get in this cycle I'll try again, but I would need a job to pay for my apartment, loans, etc....I feel like by default I'll end up at Mickey D's to make ends meet like the people from my HS who dropped out. What other options do I have? I've been applying for scribe positions like mad but apparently 48 WPM sucks so :(
 
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elliejellybean

elliejellybean

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This is definitely not true, at least not on the West coast. The job market in the PNW especially is saturated with hard science degrees and people are applying for jobs they're way overqualified for. Masters degrees get bachelor-level jobs, bachelors degrees get high school diploma jobs.
THIS. Exactly what I've heard where I am.
 
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elliejellybean

elliejellybean

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Definitely not true that you need a masters at the bare minimum. Plenty of entry-level research gigs are available to people with only a BS. You just haven't searched hard enough. With just a BS, the field you 'specialized' in doesn't really matter much. Cell, molecular, neuroscience, etc is honestly all the same in terms of employment because you really don't know anything that you couldn't pick up in a couple of months after graduation. Sure, it may be helpful to have neuro experience if you're applying for a tech job in a neuro lab but it's usually not a necessity.

You can certainly make a career out of science with just a BS, I know friends who went into industry out of college with only BSs and they are doing well now that they have moved up the ladder. It really just depends on your end goal. I knew I wanted to head my own lab, hence the PhD, but that's a long road.
I'll definitely continue looking. Thanks I needed this.
 

Mad Jack

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Community colleges hire tutors around here for $20/hr.
This is definitely not true, at least not on the West coast. The job market in the PNW especially is saturated with hard science degrees and people are applying for jobs they're way overqualified for. Masters degrees get bachelor-level jobs, bachelors degrees get high school diploma jobs.
Be willing and able to move. My sister had to relocate 1,500 miles to get a job, but it's netting her 70k/year with a B.S.
 
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freak7

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Community colleges hire tutors around here for $20/hr.

Be willing and able to move. My sister had to relocate 1,500 miles to get a job, but it's netting her 70k/year with a B.S.
No, don't get me wrong. I have a job that pays decent, but I'm not going to act like since I got lucky, the problem doesn't exist. I probably applied to a few hundred positions before getting the one I have now.
 

Mad Jack

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No, don't get me wrong. I have a job that pays decent, but I'm not going to act like since I got lucky, the problem doesn't exist. I probably applied to a few hundred positions before getting the one I have now.
It's definitely a problem, but one that most motivated people capable of getting into medical school can overcome.
 
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Promethean

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It isn't just you, and it isn't just the hard sciences.

I know two people who graduated with their BS degrees in Business/Accounting. Can't find work anywhere. Everywhere wants minimum 2-5 years experience. Can't get experience unless someone will hire you. Catch-22

Jobs aren't plentiful. They can be gotten, but they may take a lot of effort to find, and there may be a lot of competition for them. That said, someone has to get them. Just like someone has to get into medical school.

You don't need every job, just like you don't need every single seat to be open to you. You just need the one spot for things to work out. If you focus on how hard it is and how much competition there is, you will psyche yourself out. Don't do that. Remember, you are someone else's tough competition. Focus on you and on what you have to bring, and sell that at interviews - whether for jobs or schools. Doing everything right is no guarantee that things will work out, but even saturated markets and stiff competition doesn't mean that nothing will. Give yourself the benefit of the doubt and go for what you want.

As far as neuroscience being a useless major... not if med school is your goal. When you do find your seat, you are going to be able to do better in it for having a solid grounding in hard science, particularly neuro.
 

freak7

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As far as neuroscience being a useless major... not if med school is your goal. When you do find your seat, you are going to be able to do better in it for having a solid grounding in hard science, particularly neuro.
Isn't that the antithesis of OP's point?
 

Promethean

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Isn't that the antithesis of OP's point?
No, because med school is OP's goal.

Defeatist worrying about how good it is for Plan B only applies if Plan A isn't what they want to do. If I'm reading correctly, it is still way early in this cycle and OP has a good shot if their app is reasonable and they applied broadly and realistically. If OP doesn't get in this year, there is the option to be a student for another year (maybe in an SMP vs DIY post bacc) or to get a gig in healthcare that will help bolster next year's application.

If OP has decided that medical school isn't what they want to do, that is a different equation entirely. Then, yeah, a neuroscience BS doesn't guarantee one a job. But few degrees do these days.
 

gonnif

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Neuroscience, along with other biological science degress, can be applied outside the field, but you might need to cast a wider net. I personally know bio majors who went into consulting, finance, tech (two neuroscience friends of mine now work at google and facebook) and numerous other careers. These are individuals who graduated my year, and obtained these positions straight from college. If you're persistent, and build a versatile resume, your degree will help you go in whatever direction you want.
the patent office is actively seeking those in biological sciences as they are woefully behind the times in the technology.
 
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I don't know if this is the case for any US universities (I don't attend university in the US), but I'm actually getting paid a decent salary to do my Master's. It's not a huge pay but it's enough to live comfortably on, and I'm also getting a degree by doing so. I also graduated with a psyc/neuro degree this June and am applying for 2017 entrance, so if anything, this could be a viable option for you if you don't get in this cycle and want to do something productive/earn money in the year between graduation and the next cycle :)
 

freak7

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I don't know if this is the case for any US universities (I don't attend university in the US), but I'm actually getting paid a decent salary to do my Master's.
Going out on a limb here and saying that this is probably not the case at any US university.
 
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JustAPhD

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Going out on a limb here and saying that this is probably not the case at any US university.
Wrong, there are such things as fully-funded masters programs in the US. I doubt any SMPs are funded, but there are masters programs in STEM that provide a stipend with either full or half tuition remission.
 
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freak7

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Wrong. There are such things as fully-funded masters programs in the US. I doubt any SMPs are funded, but there are many masters programs in STEM that provide a stipend with either full or half tuition remission.
Can I get a link or names? I need some plan B fodder
 
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elliejellybean

elliejellybean

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No, because med school is OP's goal.

Defeatist worrying about how good it is for Plan B only applies if Plan A isn't what they want to do. If I'm reading correctly, it is still way early in this cycle and OP has a good shot if their app is reasonable and they applied broadly and realistically. If OP doesn't get in this year, there is the option to be a student for another year (maybe in an SMP vs DIY post bacc) or to get a gig in healthcare that will help bolster next year's application.

If OP has decided that medical school isn't what they want to do, that is a different equation entirely. Then, yeah, a neuroscience BS doesn't guarantee one a job. But few degrees do these days.
Can I PM you my stats and school list haha?
 
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Goro

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Go have a chat with your career counseling center.

Lab tests h is but one job, teaching another.

This is kind of a frustrated rant.
So I'm at the point where I have about 16 hours left before I can get my BS in neuro and I've had the sinking realization that with hard science majors you can't do anything with a BS. If I don't get into medical school this cycle... to do anything in the neuro field (I don't want to I'm over *so* over neuro) you need at the very bare minimum a masters. Like I've already decided if I don't get in this cycle I'll try again, but I would need a job to pay for my apartment, loans, etc....I feel like by default I'll end up at Mickey D's to make ends meet like the people from my HS who dropped out. What other options do I have? I've been applying for scribe positions like mad but apparently 48 WPM sucks so :(
 

JPS398

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It's how I feel with psychology. If it's not business or engineering, I'm not sure you can get out right away and make money.
 
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any major is a useless major if you plan on going into medical school soon. A lot of places will simply not consider you because they want someone there for 2 years atleast. What I have found is if you are going to get a job after graduation, you need to start contacting people through sites like linkedin, indeed, your school connections, etc. right now! After you graduate from college, very few options remain because the cycle for applying to these things is over and a new cycle begins in september of the year you graduate to accept people on may of the next year. This only means that you will be left with nothing to do that will feed you from your own pay. Another thing I have found is that as long as you know people or you show interest in their work early on (think about 1 year beforehand) you are a much better candidate for that job versus some unemployed candidate who has the skills the employer is looking for. I also want to point out that as long as your resume is clear of any unemployment gaps (since you are a student), you are a golden for many different places. If I knew this before graduating, I would have never gone and done the major I did because so many people I know who majored in humanities or basic science ended up with jobs because of their initiative and not what they studied. Here is the list:

1. Americorps
2. Fellowships for postbaccalaureate candidates (think pre-PhD geared programs, pre-MBA programs like thinktanks and startups)
3. Teach for America
4. Fellowships specifically geared for medical entrance
5. Consulting jobs (think about getting in touch with the business school or management program at your institute. A lot of these places have recruiting from their program specifically so you have a home benefit by applying through someone who could help)

This is what I learned: YOU NEED TO USE YOUR UNI'S RESOURCES. Why? Because I didn't even know half the opportunities that people came to find through the school departments. You need to be savvy. I personally contacted recruiters through professional companies many months ago and they wanted students to do internships at their companies and they do not accept people out of college. Here is the gist: once you get an internship (paid/unpaid doesn't matter), you have your foot in the door for a full time job after college. You still have time and as far as I'm concerned many majors advertise their graduates get jobs left and right, but that is wholly untrue and biased. Don't let your major make you feel inferior. It's all an allusion. I can tell you about countless people I know who are in much better position than many science graduates and the reason is that they listened to their heart and worked hard. They networked so much better than us and are rightfully where they deserve to be. You need to do that and no one can teach you that. Spend that extra money on upgrading a professional online profile of yours. Contact people on job websites (even if you aren't interested in the job) and introduce yourself. Because they are recruiters, they might have another job in mind for you.
 
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May 4, 2015
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It's how I feel with psychology. If it's not business or engineering, I'm not sure you can get out right away and make money.
stop that thought. You are only adding to a problem that doesn't exist. You are highly educated. Get your professional profile, contact company recruiters you have never heard of but would be interested in talking with. Also, apply to as many places you qualify for. That tuition not only goes toward your education but also counseling, use it! I feel like in university, people forget that the process is not just pushing graduates to more higher education but to also get jobs. Remind people of that. If you are applying to medical school, wait on telling your mentors about it so they don't inform that to your employers. If invited to interviews, be open to what they say and show enthusiasm. Yes, they want someone there for 2 years but also know that even if you apply to medical school this year, there is no guarantee of your admission. So don't bring up your educational plans. Say you want higher education eventually but you are really interested in what they have to say. If you go around saying medical school all the time, good luck because you are not going to get that job. I have seen so many people who sincerely did not want to do anything beyond a bachelor's and basically quit after some months because they didn't like the job. Life happens, why should you be asked to tell about your educational aspirations when fully-committed people quit without notice anyways.

I hope that my advice helps any soon-to-be graduate obtain a job. Whether you're an engineer/business person/whatever, your major does not define your job. Heck after 4 years in their own major, many want to do something completely unrelated as a career prospect.

Also your job shouldn't be considered a Plan B, it should be something you will enjoy rather than put up with. Only people who rush get to do Plan B. Both medical school and your job can be your Plan A.
 

MetaGenomics1

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This is kind of a frustrated rant.
So I'm at the point where I have about 16 hours left before I can get my BS in neuro and I've had the sinking realization that with hard science majors you can't do anything with a BS. If I don't get into medical school this cycle... to do anything in the neuro field (I don't want to I'm over *so* over neuro) you need at the very bare minimum a masters. Like I've already decided if I don't get in this cycle I'll try again, but I would need a job to pay for my apartment, loans, etc....I feel like by default I'll end up at Mickey D's to make ends meet like the people from my HS who dropped out. What other options do I have? I've been applying for scribe positions like mad but apparently 48 WPM sucks so :(
I would suggest searching for paid internships, those are easier to come by than full-time/part-time employment in science. Start by looking into hospitals, academic settings, public/private research facilities. Most have short terms programs and are happy to hire new students to participate in production. Basically, assembly line type of work such as plating, extracting dna, PCR and the like. I'm currently working as an intern for a national lab and students come and go each term. I'm under a 1-yr contract with the possibility of an extension which is pretty common but there are shorter assignments (10weeks, and 6 months).

Word of advice, don't give up. The way my science advisor put it....she had to apply to 21 positions before finally being hired p/t with a microbio degree
 
S

Sardinia

How do students have a WPM below 100?

@elliejellybean Listen to @Goro go to your job counseling facility for jobs and ideas. Almost all of the advice given to you is immaterial and based on a small fraction of reality that you can't even use to begin to start a job search on within your local area. Also trying to find an entry level job as a lab technician to pay off bills is horrible more cases than not when it comes to the free market. Staffing companies have set the standard valuation for an entry technician to be around $15 an hour but YMMV depending on which company hires you and where you live. The only piece of advice I would give if you've been living through scholarships and grant funds is to move back in with your parents, it will help immensely.
 
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