Neurosurgery Residency

[InFactotum]

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I'm a second year student and feel like neurosurgery is going to be close to the top of the list for me when the time comes to apply for the match. I have a few questions that I'm hoping will prepare me in advance.

1. I expect to be in the top ⅓ of my class when applications begin. It seems that class rank is not terribly important for many specialties, is this also true for NS?
2. I will have been a part of at least 3 research projects (and be 2nd author on two papers) when I apply, is this considered competitive or average for NS?
3. Does anyone have any stats on D.O.'s matching ACGME in the last few years? It's been very tough for me to find information, and I'm wondering if it's simply that few people apply NS (self-selection) or that there's a decent chance of not matching.

My biggest concerns are class rank, location of residences, and the thought of not matching. I know board scores can make up for class rank usually, but I need someone to confirm this holds true for NS as well (I expect my boards to be far better than my grades, and history shows that to be true based on my undergrad GPA/MCAT). I'm willing to go anywhere, BUT, my gf (and possibly future wife) may not feel the same way.

Finally, what's the "real situation" about not matching. Does nearly everyone that applies to very competitive fields like NS typically match because it's so self-selected? Or, do some people use the strategy of applying NS for AOA and maybe GenSurg for ACGME? Oh, and what other things do I need to be doing to make myself stand out (besides research, making connections via shadowing, and club officer positions)?

 

[cliquesh]

I'm a second year student and feel like neurosurgery is going to be close to the top of the list for me when the time comes to apply for the match. I have a few questions that I'm hoping will prepare me in advance.

1. I expect to be in the top ⅓ of my class when applications begin. It seems that class rank is not terribly important for many specialties, is this also true for NS?
2. I will have been a part of at least 3 research projects (and be 2nd author on two papers) when I apply, is this considered competitive or average for NS?
3. Does anyone have any stats on D.O.'s matching ACGME in the last few years? It's been very tough for me to find information, and I'm wondering if it's simply that few people apply NS (self-selection) or that there's a decent chance of not matching.

My biggest concerns are class rank, location of residences, and the thought of not matching. I know board scores can make up for class rank usually, but I need someone to confirm this holds true for NS as well (I expect my boards to be far better than my grades, and history shows that to be true based on my undergrad GPA/MCAT). I'm willing to go anywhere, BUT, my gf (and possibly future wife) may not feel the same way.

Finally, what's the "real situation" about not matching. Does nearly everyone that applies to very competitive fields like NS typically match because it's so self-selected? Or, do some people use the strategy of applying NS for AOA and maybe GenSurg for ACGME? Oh, and what other things do I need to be doing to make myself stand out (besides research, making connections via shadowing, and club officer positions)?

All I can tell you is that there were 31 DOs that applied Acgme neurosurgery in 2011. https://www.aamc.org/download/152586/data/table43-erasrace4usosteopathic2011.pdf

 

[costales]

You might want to look at
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=856001

 

[Dissected]

1 DO matched acgme last year

http://www.nrmp.org/data/resultsanddata2012.pdf

It's extremely competitive and short of an acgme program offering you a blood pact, you should gun for osteo programs as hard as you can..in my opinion. you can always try and be a rockstar and gun acgme, but there is a much higher probability of coming up empty handed.

Do smashingly on the Comlex/USMLE Steps I and II, get away rotations at programs and work harder than anyone there, get letters from the places, and interview well.

Good luck!

 

[cabinbuilder]

I know of 3 guys who went to LECOM who matched neurosurgery. Two of those were in my class in 2006. The other guy was the first DO neursurgeon in the state of NY. I don't know if they went ACGME.

 

[InFactotum]

All I can tell you is that there were 31 DOs that applied Acgme neurosurgery in 2011. https://www.aamc.org/download/152586/data/table43-erasrace4usosteopathic2011.pdf

Thank you, that is helpful.

 

[InFactotum]

You might want to look at
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=856001

Thanks for the link!

 

[InFactotum]

1 DO matched acgme last year

http://www.nrmp.org/data/resultsanddata2012.pdf

It's extremely competitive and short of an acgme program offering you a blood pact, you should gun for osteo programs as hard as you can..in my opinion. you can always try and be a rockstar and gun acgme, but there is a much higher probability of coming up empty handed.

Do smashingly on the Comlex/USMLE Steps I and II, get away rotations at programs and work harder than anyone there, get letters from the places, and interview well.

Good luck!

Thanks for finding that document, exactly what I was looking for, especially combined with the other guy that found 31 applied allopathic. So, out of 31, 1 matched ACGME, ouch.

What you're saying sounds like my thoughts on this. It looks like short of networking very early and finding a connection to a program director at a N.S. program, I won't get ACGME (maybe that's even true for AOA?). Thanks again!

 

[JeetKuneDo]

All I can tell you is that there were 31 DOs that applied Acgme neurosurgery in 2011. https://www.aamc.org/download/152586/data/table43-erasrace4usosteopathic2011.pdf

Does this take into account if they applied to ACGME and then were pulled out since they matched AOA? Those stats are brutal.

 

[cliquesh]

Does this take into account if they applied to ACGME and then were pulled out since they matched AOA? Those stats are brutal.

I don't know for sure, but yeah I think it is for everyone who submitted an application, and I think if you applied for two specialties, like Im and em, it double counts. I could be wrong.

 

[Dissected]

Thanks for finding that document, exactly what I was looking for, especially combined with the other guy that found 31 applied allopathic. So, out of 31, 1 matched ACGME, ouch.

What you're saying sounds like my thoughts on this. It looks like short of networking very early and finding a connection to a program director at a N.S. program, I won't get ACGME (maybe that's even true for AOA?). Thanks again!

Actually in 2011 nobody matched acgme neurosurg.

 

[neuromaniac]

I am interested in neurosurgery as well. I don't know if I am going to apply ACGME; I think the most important factor in the selection process is clerkship. If you go to an MD residency and kick *****, it does not matter if you scored average on the boards. They have to like you and they have to know you're willing to work till you're literally exhausted. At least that is what I think...and who knows if I'm correct but I think hard work and communication skills and like-ability go further than a board score. Now, boards are important, according to one MD residency director I spoke to, because "they let us know how much information you can retain." Good luck.

 

[SpecterGT260]

How was it hard to find info? The ACGME publishes match data. IIRC only about 4 DO applicants have matched ACGME NS over the last 4 years. The AOA is a better bet for you.

It should be the first thing that comes up if you Google residency match statistics. The data has osteopathic specific info in it

 

[Dissected]

How was it hard to find info? The ACGME publishes match data. IIRC only about 4 DO applicants have matched ACGME NS over the last 4 years. The AOA is a better bet for you.

It should be the first thing that comes up if you Google residency match statistics. The data has osteopathic specific info in it

Chill dude. Was this post really even necessary?

 

[SpecterGT260]

Chill dude. Was this post really even necessary?

I'm not sure what made you think it was an intense post. I was on my phone so I couldnt just link him, so I told him the search string I used to find it for myself in the past.

It is possible that he wanted to find such info through the AOA or other such DO services and didn't think the ACGME/NRMP would have DO specific data so he didnt think to look.

for the record, http://www.nrmp.org/data/resultsanddata2012.pdf

Page 27. There have been 3 successful NS matches by DOs over the last 5 years.

I agree with the earlier poster that if he want this he will need to go AOA.

 

[Dissected]

I'm not sure what made you think it was an intense post. I was on my phone so I couldnt just link him, so I told him the search string I used to find it for myself in the past.

It is possible that he wanted to find such info through the AOA or other such DO services and didn't think the ACGME/NRMP would have DO specific data so he didnt think to look.

for the record, http://www.nrmp.org/data/resultsanddata2012.pdf

Page 27. There have been 3 successful NS matches by DOs over the last 5 years.

I agree with the earlier poster that if he want this he will need to go AOA.

I posted that link about 5 posts ago....
More convenient for the OP to click on now I guess

 

[SpecterGT260]

I posted that link about 5 posts ago....
More convenient for the OP to click on now I guess

oh..... I was on my phone and didnt see it
it looked like there was plenty of speculation and some idea that the numbers were hard to come by

 

[Dissected]

oh..... I was on my phone and didnt see it

Inexcusable

[meant sarcastically]

 

[SpecterGT260]

yeah, but anyways, this should be a pretty useful link too

http://www.nrmp.org/data/resultsanddata2012.pdf especially down around page 26-28

 

[InFactotum]

Actually in 2011 nobody matched acgme neurosurg.

My bad, I got mixed up and thought he meant 2011, now I see he meant 1 matched in this year's match.

 

[InFactotum]

Thanks for all the helpful info guys. Seems like ACGME is pointless to even apply to unless I have a program director give me that strong "hint" I'm on the top of their list.

 

[JeetKuneDo]

A little tangential to the topic, but how are some of the DO neurosurgery programs. A lot of the reviews are quite dated, so I assume nothing has really changed? Looking through the old threads, I noticed places like Cook County's program got terrible reviews. I would think a big hospital like that would have a decent program.