New Accreditation, Same Joke

[fuegorama]

"An applicant must demonstrate the existence of a minimum segregated, unencumbered
reserve fund escrowed until graduation of the first class of students and equal to the
greater cash value of 1) $5,000,000; or 2) tuition multiplied by the number of the
students of the inaugural class multiplied by four years. An increase in tuition will
require recalculation of the escrow amount and an increase in the calculation of the
amount of the escrowed funds. The escrowed reserve fund must not be borrowed funds."
This is one of the "revised" guidelines set out by the AOA on 12/10/2006 as an effort to restrict the metastatsis of new programs.

Our allo. counterparts require $150 million to start a new program. Our FANTASTIC institutions still run on the 1952 model of the fiscal requirements for a medical education.

You can't field a Nascar team for $5 million dollars much less give a high powered medical education to 100+ kids!!

I reckon we'll make up the deficits with love and OMM.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[BMW19]

Branches of existing schools don't have to wait for a student to graduate. We have our full accreditation already. Man you have a huge chip on your shoulder why didn't you just to MD?

BMW-

"An applicant must demonstrate the existence of a minimum segregated, unencumbered
reserve fund escrowed until graduation of the first class of students and equal to the
greater cash value of 1) $5,000,000; or 2) tuition multiplied by the number of the
students of the inaugural class multiplied by four years. An increase in tuition will
require recalculation of the escrow amount and an increase in the calculation of the
amount of the escrowed funds. The escrowed reserve fund must not be borrowed funds."
This is one of the "revised" guidelines set out by the AOA on 12/10/2006 as an effort to restrict the metastatsis of new programs.

Our allo. counterparts require $150 million to start a new program. Our FANTASTIC institutions still run on the 1952 model of the fiscal requirements for a medical education.

You can't field a Nascar team for $5 million dollars much less give a high powered medical education to 100+ kids!!

I reckon we'll make up the deficits with love and OMM.

 

[MJB]

Man you have a huge chip on your shoulder why didn't you just to MD?

Kinda what I was trying to figure out.

 

[fuegorama]

Branches of existing schools don't have to wait for a student to graduate.We have our full accreditation already.-

Even worse. Under your school's model, there is no need to provide evidence that real infrastructure exists. It is assumed. That makes an a$$.....

Man you have a huge chip on your shoulder why didn't you just to MD?

BMW-

Any critique of osteoland error and hypocrisy gets this response. It is forbidden that we air the problems associated with what has become DO school. Calling it "medical school" is rapidly becoming an inaccurate moniker.

BMW, I understand you are proud of your education and program. I feel that you are misguided/misled in this opinion, but then that's mine.

I hope you would not try to squelch a critique of our professions problems from this insider. I guarantee you that what I say here is better than what's thrown around about us in the real world.

I am trying to preserve the integrity of this degree that has cost me so much. (I'm not talking $$) If you cannot see that this level of endowment/start up funding is inadequate I encourage you to take a seat and read the LCME criteria vs. that put up by the AOA. Meanwhile others can participate in the discussion.

Thanks.
F

 

[Old_Mil]

Branches of existing schools don't have to wait for a student to graduate. We have our full accreditation already. Man you have a huge chip on your shoulder why didn't you just to MD?

BMW-

If you are satisfied by attending schools with inferior accreditation requirements, why didn't you go to chiropractic school?

 

[misparas]

If you are satisfied by attending schools with inferior accreditation requirements, why didn't you go to chiropractic school?

Man... Do well on the USMLE Step 1 and transfer out. Put your mind at rest.

 

[MJB]

I'm fairly comfortable with the investment being made in my future...

http://www.knoxnews.com/kns/health_and_fitness/article/0,1406,KNS_310_5344900,00.html

 

[toothless rufus]

"An applicant must demonstrate the existence of a minimum segregated, unencumbered
reserve fund escrowed until graduation of the first class of students and equal to the
greater cash value of 1) $5,000,000; or 2) tuition multiplied by the number of the
students of the inaugural class multiplied by four years. An increase in tuition will
require recalculation of the escrow amount and an increase in the calculation of the
amount of the escrowed funds. The escrowed reserve fund must not be borrowed funds."
This is one of the "revised" guidelines set out by the AOA on 12/10/2006 as an effort to restrict the metastatsis of new programs.

Can someone explain this in plain English, please?

 

[MJB]

Basically, a stipulation of accreditation is that a school applying must have a seperate escrow account to hold either 5 million bucks or the equivalent of 4 years of tuition.

This money cannot be touched until the first class graduates (the school becomes fully accredited).


Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[scpod]

Basically, a stipulation of accreditation is that a school applying must have a seperate escrow account to hold either 5 million bucks or the equivalent of 4 years of tuition...

Yes, and the likely result is that it will be much more than just 5 million. Take the new school LMU-DCOM for instance:

150 students X 4 years X $30,000.00 = 18 million dollars

Not a lot, but not pocket change either.

 

[jhug]

you have a huge chip on your shoulder why didn't you just to MD?

classic, knee-jerk...no, gastrocolic reflex (with clonus) that the AOA just loves to hear! We'll feed you the crap and you just shoot it right out ad nauseum!!!
The fact that the AOA is allowing programs to grow at a malignant rate with little to no growth in quality post-graduate education (ie: NOT a 50 bed rural hospital with a closet for an ICU) should show all of us that there is no philosophy and that OMM really isn't all that important...they already depend on the ACGME for training over half of us and you better believe that they have no intention of changing it...infact, with the huge influx of graduates that dependence will only be solidified. The real AOA philosophy...make as much $$ as fast as you can and let someone else train us when we are done...

 

[VALSALVA]

Sweet! I love the fact that more and more of us are refusing to tow the AOA line (I'm not trying to be sarcastic in any way). I'm so sick and tired of hearing about how the old guard so badly wants us D.O.'s to remain distinct and true to our founder's tenets - and to the AOA itself. Yet at the same time, they're accrediting money making machines...er...I mean new schools like it's going out of style. At the same time, many post-grad training offerings remain sub-par and too few in number. I'm glad to know I'm not the only one who finds this sort of double-speak INSANE! Helloooo...only 40% of us matched in yesterday's D.O. match, and it's not going to get any higher once the new schools start pumping out graduates...there goes our distinction.

Oh, and on a separate note...I read that article out of the Knoxville paper that someone posted. It talked about how the grads of that new school are going to be family docs in Appalacia(sp?)...bunch of crap. You can throw that noble-sounding **** out the window. Those grads are going to do whatever the heck they want...end of story. This is crazy!!!!

 

[homeboy]

If you are satisfied by attending schools with inferior accreditation requirements, why didn't you go to chiropractic school?

ooh, good one, old mil.

honestly, for any of you 1st and 2nd years out there still living in the osteopathic bubble, get over yourselves being almighty DO students and rebutting with the ad hominem "why don't you just go MD."

that's so pathetic it's borderline ignorant.

and the only patients that give a crap whether you're a DO or an MD are the ones that are just as delusional as you in thinking DOs have some inherent superiority.

and for all the 2nd yrs...how's magic class going, er, I mean, cranial...?
and to reiterate what VALSALVA said...
ONLY 40% AOA match!!

 

[fuegorama]

Contrary to the direction of this thread, I was not going for a replay of the AOA bashing that is so rewarding. There is dysfunction and it's poster child, the AOA. 'Nuf said.

What I was trying to spark some discussion with was the inadequate funding required for accrediatation of new programs.

Dr. Russo has the excellent sticky above that has some interesting viewpoints on debt and the DO student as well as the one regarding LCME school expansion.

I attend an established program that at one time was "new". My school started with an endowment of less than $25,000. Insane? Maybe. But, this was a different era. The invisible asset of my program was the dedication of an army of community DOs willing to make the program a reality. These guys gave and gave and gave. There was a fairly large osteopathic hospital in town that was a dedicated academic center and an attending faculty that made massive sacrifices to the school at the expense of their practices.

The heritage of the program is one of medical expertise and excellence.
Unfortunately, with the closure of the hospital, the changes in reimbursement, and the local history of out of state MD students coming here for training, we are now the outsiders in our own comunity.

With a greater endowment, I can't help but wonder if we couldn't have bought a bigger chunk of the educational resources now delivered to our allo. counterparts.

The old model is no longer applicable to medical education. I know of no in-town docs that can afford to be mentoring faculty to students for free.

LCME schools are required to demonstrate robust fiscal liquidity because they must fund academic clinicians.

I feel that this is one area where the AOA must begin to emulate the LCME if we are to continue to claim equivalence to the MD.

 

[jhug]

WOW! 40%!?!?! Where did you find that info? I keep getting emails from programs that didn't fill...but 40% is bad.

 

[VALSALVA]

WOW! 40%!?!?! Where did you find that info? I keep getting emails from programs that didn't fill...but 40% is bad.

http://portal.osteotech.org/portal/...203&PageID=0&cached=false&space=CommunityPage

You'll need your AOA password to access the link(I think)...so I'll just post the AOA President's daily report from Monday(match day) right here:

"Today is "Match Day"! Match Results are in for the 2007 AOA Match Program for osteopathic medical students seeking internship and residency positions. Approximately 40% of the osteopathic graduates matched into an osteopathic internship position! The National Matching Services, Inc., which coordinates the osteopathic Match, reports that a total of 1,575 individuals participated in the 2007 Match; 181 did not match and 217 will serve in the military. 1,508 (includes military) of the 3,173 total osteopathic graduates did not participate in this year's Match. The AOA intern/resident registration program includes 2,688 approved positions, and 2,189 funded positions, 925 of which were unfilled as of today's match. Learn more about the Match on DO-Online. Congratulations to all osteopathic medical students who matched today!"

There you go. It's crazy that the AOA president is excited about a 40% match rate (as seen by the fact that he put an exclamation point at the end of the proclamation). In reality, it looks like approximately 50% of us did not participate in the match. The 40% number comes from the fact that some of those who attempted to match did not. I'd guess the true number of those matched into an osteo. program will end up around 45% when it's all said and done - still pretty dang terrible.

 

[jhug]

i don't know what is worse...the fact that only 40-45% of us participated in the AOA match, the idea that this is good/success, or that there are 3,173 total osteopathic graduates and the AOA only has 2,189 funded positions...what legitimate organization would do this to its members???

 

[S_Talos]

Maybe I'm missing something. If 1575 grads applied for 2200 funded spots, how is that an indication that more slots are needed?

 

[VALSALVA]

Maybe I'm missing something. If 1575 grads applied for 2200 funded spots, how is that an indication that more slots are needed?

There weren't 1575 grads. That was the total number of D.O. grads that participated in the osteo match.

 

[misparas]

There weren't 1575 grads. That was the total number of D.O. grads that participated in the osteo match.

Supply and Demand.

The demand isn't there.

 

[Founder]

When I was at DeBusk they told us for accredidation they needed 4 years tuition plus 30% to equal 30 million dollars US for the pre-accred.

 

[VALSALVA]

Supply and Demand.

The demand isn't there.

Exactly! Which is why the AOA needs to beef up it's GME rather than open up new schools. It's not good enough to be distinct or loyal while at the same time training at a sub-par facility or settling for a primary care specialty that you never wanted. Not all D.O. training facilities fall into that category, but too many do...period.

 

[Quakkilla]

Exactly! Which is why the AOA needs to beef up it's GME rather than open up new schools. It's not good enough to be distinct or loyal while at the same time training at a sub-par facility or settling for a primary care specialty that you never wanted. Not all D.O. training facilities fall into that category, but too many do...period.

Exactly!!! We need more good GME spots, Not in FP. And the AOA shuns the grads that go to ACGME?!?!?!?! I will never understand this?

 

[BklynWill]

... and also shuns the idea of a joint match.

The AOA purposely forces DO graduates to go into AOA-approved FP residencies, many by default.

I have personally heard an AOA associate state that we need FP slots to fill because if a spot goes unfilled for >3 years, the fed will remove it's funding.

I have also heard an AOA associate state that they encourage new DO specialty residencies to open up but they want us (the students) to do that some day.

There is no immediate fix to this issue. If you attend a DO school in the NW or SW U.S. and you want a specialty residency in your preferred region, get used to the idea of applying ONLY through the NRMP.

 

[RajMahal]

classic, knee-jerk...no, gastrocolic reflex (with clonus) that the AOA just loves to hear! We'll feed you the crap and you just shoot it right out ad nauseum!!!
The fact that the AOA is allowing programs to grow at a malignant rate with little to no growth in quality post-graduate education (ie: NOT a 50 bed rural hospital with a closet for an ICU) should show all of us that there is no philosophy and that OMM really isn't all that important...they already depend on the ACGME for training over half of us and you better believe that they have no intention of changing it...infact, with the huge influx of graduates that dependence will only be solidified. The real AOA philosophy...make as much $$ as fast as you can and let someone else train us when we are done...

well said jhug.
our school dumps us out on 3rd adn 4th year rotations and gladly collects 33k per year. where does that money go? it sure as hell isn't costing THEM 33k per year to educate us.
if they don't care that much about you at your home base during years 3 and 4, how are they going to care about branch campus kids?
i think instead of focusing on cranking out a whole messload of DO's, they ought to work on improving the education for the DO's they already have, who need better clinical rotations.

 

[clement]

Helloooo...only 40% of us matched in yesterday's D.O. match, and it's not going to get any higher once the new schools start pumping out graduates...there goes our distinction.

Pardon me. I fear I may have to ask what may be a seemingly semi-******ed question. Have mercy on me, as I have not started med school yet...
So, if only 40% or so matched in the D.O. match, does that mean the rest pretty much (and I'm using *pretty much* generously) matched in the M.D. match!?

 

[fuegorama]

Yep.

 

[BMW19]

Actually I was a chiropractor!! Thanks for the hit. Maybe you should retract your foot from mouth. Again it may sound cliche and trite to say "why didn't you go MD"? But what is your answer? Seriously it seems like you guys like to do your research, so why didn't you look at all this data before you enrolled in the quack, quazi-chiro, inferior DO schools. Seriously, you guys get more defensive than I do. Perhaps you should have gone to ST. Georges. It is easy for you do attack the AOA and the profession now, but why didn't you do your homework and not go DO. Even though cliche, perhaps you SHOULD elaborate why you did not go MD. You compare everthing to LCME.

Why is my accrediation status inferior? We mimic the Philly school exactly. Now you are going to attack PCOM as well? One of the more respected schools?

BMW-

If you are satisfied by attending schools with inferior accreditation requirements, why didn't you go to chiropractic school?

 

[djnels01]

Actually I was a chiropractor!! Thanks for the hit. Maybe you should retract your foot from mouth. Again it may sound cliche and trite to say "why didn't you go MD"? But what is your answer? Seriously it seems like you guys like to do your research, so why didn't you look at all this data before you enrolled in the quack, quazi-chiro, inferior DO schools. Seriously, you guys get more defensive than I do. Perhaps you should have gone to ST. Georges. It is easy for you do attack the AOA and the profession now, but why didn't you do your homework and not go DO. Even though cliche, perhaps you SHOULD elaborate why you did not go MD. You compare everthing to LCME.

Why is my accrediation status inferior? We mimic the Philly school exactly. Now you are going to attack PCOM as well? One of the more respected schools?

BMW-

How much research should you be expected to do when applying to med school? My God, I had enough work to do even applying to schools while finishing undergrad...

For example, DO schools don't mention anything about Cranial to students applying and interviewing... so when these same students "complain" because they don't buy it, do you tell them that they "should've done their homework or gone MD"? All 95% or more of students applying to DO schools know about OMM is that it's medicine that you can practice using your hands.

You can't blame students not knowing EVERYTHING there is to know about being a DO on the fact that they didn't do their research, that's absurd...

 

[BMW19]

My point was that these guys are coming on here and bashing AOA, bashing new DO schools, bashing accrediation. They love to research how deficient everything is with LCME studies of the inferiority of DO programs blah blah. But why weren't they doing the research about these deficiencies before hand. Always easy to be a monday morning QB. I am not talking about the people that are quiet on this forum. You can't tell me that you did not have some inkling that you were going to have somewhat less opportunities as a DO?

BMW-

How much research should you be expected to do when applying to med school? My God, I had enough work to do even applying to schools while finishing undergrad...

For example, DO schools don't mention anything about Cranial to students applying and interviewing... so when these same students "complain" because they don't buy it, do you tell them that they "should've done their homework or gone MD"? All 95% or more of students applying to DO schools know about OMM is that it's medicine that you can practice using your hands.

You can't blame students not knowing EVERYTHING there is to know about being a DO on the fact that they didn't do their research, that's absurd...

 

[Pansit]

My point was that these guys are coming on here and bashing AOA, bashing new DO schools, bashing accrediation. They love to research how deficient everything is with LCME studies of the inferiority of DO programs blah blah. But why weren't they doing the research about these deficiencies before hand. Always easy to be a monday morning QB. I am not talking about the people that are quiet on this forum. You can't tell me that you did not have some inkling that you were going to have somewhat less opportunities as a DO?

BMW-

Maybe these are people that had no other choice than attending the DO school (granted they werent willing to risk the carrib)...so they might just be frustrated that things still has not improved from when they first started. I don't think these "defeciencies" really enter the mind of applicants when applying (especially if the DO school was a backup) and only think about them once you are actually matriculating. Applicants are more worried about location, costs, match lists, ...etc

 

[BMW19]

Exactly my point. If it was the only option they had then they should be thankful that it was an option at all! If it weren't they would be at Ross with mosquitios the size of birds and no electricitiy. They should be happy that someone gave theme the opportunity to become a physician since the american allopathic schools would not.

B-

Maybe these are people that had no other choice than attending the DO school (granted they werent willing to risk the carrib)...so they might just be frustrated that things still has not improved from when they first started. I don't think these "defeciencies" really enter the mind of applicants when applying (especially if the DO school was a backup) and only think about them once you are actually matriculating. Applicants are more worried about location, costs, match lists, ...etc

 

[Pansit]

Exactly my point. If it was the only option they had then they should be thankful that it was an option at all! If it weren't they would be at Ross with mosquitios the size of birds and no electricitiy. They should be happy that someone gave theme the opportunity to become a physician since the american allopathic schools would not.

B-

glad I made your point...lol

 

[bonesawz]

My point was that these guys are coming on here and bashing AOA, bashing new DO schools, bashing accrediation. They love to research how deficient everything is with LCME studies of the inferiority of DO programs blah blah. But why weren't they doing the research about these deficiencies before hand. Always easy to be a monday morning QB. I am not talking about the people that are quiet on this forum. You can't tell me that you did not have some inkling that you were going to have somewhat less opportunities as a DO?

BMW-

I really believe that those people who actually went D.O. as a backup to M.D. school aren't the ones who will "bash" the AOA or the way new schools are being set up. They could care less, they just want to take their classes, take both sets of boards and match at an M.D. residency and get on with their life as Dr. whoever. Anyone who "bashes" the way the D.O. course is going must actually care about the future of the degree. Someone jumping off the ship in a few years doesn't care about the future of the ship. Those that critique the D.O. system are the ones that actually care enough to have done enough research to know what all this stuff means. Plus, "research" won't tell you what direction things will take in the future, and there is nothing wrong with questioning whether it is a good idea or not. Or does "research" say that the AOA is infallible in its methods of school expansion?
P.S. I "researched" D.O. programs pretty well, and I never heard of cranial until school started.

 

[Pansit]

I really believe that those people who actually went D.O. as a backup to M.D. school aren't the ones who will "bash" the AOA or the way new schools are being set up. They could care less, they just want to take their classes, take both sets of boards and match at an M.D. residency and get on with their life as Dr. whoever. Anyone who "bashes" the way the D.O. course is going must actually care about the future of the degree. Someone jumping off the ship in a few years doesn't care about the future of the ship. Those that critique the D.O. system are the ones that actually care enough to have done enough research to know what all this stuff means. Plus, "research" won't tell you what direction things will take in the future, and there is nothing wrong with questioning whether it is a good idea or not. Or does "research" say that the AOA is infallible in its methods of school expansion?
P.S. I "researched" D.O. programs pretty well, and I never heard of cranial until school started.

I am guessing you were not on SDN before med school because I have seen cranial being talked about quite a bit...well I guess I can thank SDN for introducing me before I start...lol

 

[BMW19]

Stating that all new schools are "weak with no foundation, and no chance at having a good rotation structure or getting good residencies" is not caring about the profession. It is an ignorant statement that is not backed up by facts. None of these new schools have reached residency yet so how can these statements be backed up? I start rotations in June and some of the hospitals we got are top notch. Med students from all over the country want to come to these hospitals. A few level 1 trauma centers as well.

BMW-

I really believe that those people who actually went D.O. as a backup to M.D. school aren't the ones who will "bash" the AOA or the way new schools are being set up. They could care less, they just want to take their classes, take both sets of boards and match at an M.D. residency and get on with their life as Dr. whoever. Anyone who "bashes" the way the D.O. course is going must actually care about the future of the degree. Someone jumping off the ship in a few years doesn't care about the future of the ship. Those that critique the D.O. system are the ones that actually care enough to have done enough research to know what all this stuff means. Plus, "research" won't tell you what direction things will take in the future, and there is nothing wrong with questioning whether it is a good idea or not. Or does "research" say that the AOA is infallible in its methods of school expansion?
P.S. I "researched" D.O. programs pretty well, and I never heard of cranial until school started.

 

[RajMahal]

My point was that these guys are coming on here and bashing AOA, bashing new DO schools, bashing accrediation. They love to research how deficient everything is with LCME studies of the inferiority of DO programs blah blah. But why weren't they doing the research about these deficiencies before hand. Always easy to be a monday morning QB. I am not talking about the people that are quiet on this forum. You can't tell me that you did not have some inkling that you were going to have somewhat less opportunities as a DO?

BMW-

if i had any inkling that my opportunities were going to be less, it sure wasn't given to me by the schools when i interviewed there.

"oh sure, you can do rotations anywhere you want."
turned down for rotations by 3 different places because they don't take DO's for rotations (even though one of them interviewed me for residency).

Osteopathic schools will do a great job of selling you on their clinical education and opportunities, and honestly, i feel misled.

 

[fuegorama]

My point was that these guys are coming on here and bashing AOA, bashing new DO schools, bashing accrediation. They love to research how deficient everything is with LCME studies of the inferiority of DO programs blah blah. But why weren't they doing the research about these deficiencies before hand. Always easy to be a monday morning QB. I am not talking about the people that are quiet on this forum. You can't tell me that you did not have some inkling that you were going to have somewhat less opportunities as a DO?

BMW-

I did my research. I made my choice. This was based on data suggesting that medical education using an osteopathic model was qual to the majority of allo. institutions and in some cases even superior.
I was told by multiple sources that the quackery and poor prep previously associated with the DO was a thing of the past.
The data have changed.

Since my interview day, at least 7 new programs have opened. My school has lost multiple rotation sites. The new crop of kid power in the AOA are cranial champions.

This is not the product advertised.

As far as new applicants not getting this information, I am hoping these threads are enlightening and educational. I wish I had known.

Given the checkered past of DO education, I must assume the new schools are mills until proven otherwise. It is up to these programs to prove themselves. Their existence during an era when medicine itself is under siege and quality of training is our only currency is an affront to those schools already present.
The comparison to the LCME requirements is necessary b/c that IS the model of superior medical education. I've seen both sides. There is no comparison.

I have tried to describe my feelings about why the community faculty model has failed. Can you tell me why this is incorrect?

 

[BMW19]

I don't disagree that there are some deficiencies. But again for better or worse most of them are because of the focus on primary care which should be no mystery to a student applying DO. The AOA just isn't intersted in creating more vascular surgery residencies/fellowships. I don't now if you can change that.

I believe it was you that stated that assumptions make an "a$$". So how can you assume that new programs will be mills and give sub-par education? As I stated before our curriculum mirrors that of PCOM (a well respected "established" school) and is made even better with video taped lectures a full integrated curriculum, Flat screens in the anat. lab and OMM lab. 4 students per cadaver which is almost un-heard of. We have some of the best physicians lecturing to us Surgeons at well respected hospitals, Docs written up in the "best Docs" sections of mags. We have well established hospitals for rotations. Our MCAT scores were some of the highest out of ANY DO school in the country. We have more than a few students from Ivy league schools. How is this inferior and weak?

BMW-

I did my research. I made my choice. This was based on data suggesting that medical education using an osteopathic model was qual to the majority of allo. institutions and in some cases even superior.
I was told by multiple sources that the quackery and poor prep previously associated with the DO was a thing of the past.
The data have changed.

Since my interview day, at least 7 new programs have opened. My school has lost multiple rotation sites. The new crop of kid power in the AOA are cranial champions.

This is not the product advertised.

As far as new applicants not getting this information, I am hoping these threads are enlightening and educational. I wish I had known.

Given the checkered past of DO education, I must assume the new schools are mills until proven otherwise. It is up to these programs to prove themselves. Their existence during an era when medicine itself is under siege and quality of training is our only currency is an affront to those schools already present.
The comparison to the LCME requirements is necessary b/c that IS the model of superior medical education. I've seen both sides. There is no comparison.

I have tried to describe my feelings about why the community faculty model has failed. Can you tell me why this is incorrect?

 

[fuegorama]

B-
I sincerely hope that you have been sold an honest deal re:your rotations. In an earlier post I attempted to describe how the didactic years are not the difficult educational passage to coordinate.

It is the clinical curriculum in years 3 and 4 where DO education is deficient. I feel that this is due to the community model that sustained osteopathic eduaction in the past. It is failing. (See TCOM thread from last year) I really don't see how this can be overcome given today's funding paradigms.

I hope for your sake you can prove me wrong.

Re: my assumption about new schools-
Once again I hope you are right. I hope for the sake of folks like yourself and for our title that I am incorrect in calling the clinical set up of the new/branch programs deficient. I can tell ya that as a 4 year veteran of the osteopathic training milieu, I have serious doubts.

 

[BMW19]

Believe me I hope I am right as well. I guess we will have to wait a few more months to tell. In fact, 4 months to be exact. If you are right I will concede. But my gut feeling tells me that our rotations will be solid.

B-

B-
I sincerely hope that you have been sold an honest deal re:your rotations. In an earlier post I attempted to describe how the didactic years are not the difficult educational passage to coordinate.

It is the clinical curriculum in years 3 and 4 where DO education is deficient. I feel that this is due to the community model that sustained osteopathic eduaction in the past. It is failing. (See TCOM thread from last year) I really don't see how this can be overcome given today's funding paradigms.

I hope for your sake you can prove me wrong.

Re: my assumption about new schools-
Once again I hope you are right. I hope for the sake of folks like yourself and for our title that I am incorrect in calling the clinical set up of the new/branch programs deficient. I can tell ya that as a 4 year veteran of the osteopathic training milieu, I have serious doubts.