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NEW accredited US Medical Schools, YAY

Discussion in 'General Residency Issues' started by canengire, Mar 23, 2007.

  1. canengire


    Mar 22, 2007

    Hi, new to the forum .

    I also wanted to bring up this point, that NO ONE IS EVEN TALKING ABOUT. There are a wealth of new accredited US medical schools that are or have been opening up, both MD + DO. Many of them are schools which are under existing big university names, or are sister schools of already established schools.

    think Florida State
    and an abundance of Osteopathic Schools.

    CHECK this out

    So to answer the question, with an expected increase of total AMGs, (as you know, residency program directors and chairs want AMGs as their first pick --> if anyone tells you otherwise, that is bs), the near future, I think it would be very wise to assume that it will get much harder for Caribbean IMGs to land a residency.

    The new wave of recent and soon to be inaugural class graduates will have a significant impact.

    Good for residencies ( with the exception of the Family Medicine 84% fill rate, I anticipate it will continue its demise).

    Bad for IMGs. Moral of the story, dont slack off as a premed. With so many spots available in US medical schools, if you still can't get into one US medical school, well....

    I mean listen to the advice of actual Caribbean grads, they are telling premeds to go to the carib as a last resort.
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  3. carrigallen

    carrigallen 16th centry dutch painter 10+ Year Member

    Feb 27, 2003
    The irony is that unfilled family medicine slots will probably continue to increase. Primary care is a sinking ship, and building more medical schools is unlikely to solve this problem.
  4. mgdsh

    mgdsh 10+ Year Member

    Mar 15, 2007
    That's pretty damn naive of you. There are many Caribbean grads that actually beat pompous AMGs for residency spots in competitive fields like plastics, derm, rads, among other fields.

    If you really think becoming a doctor is all about undergrad GPAs and MCAT scores, you really need to open you eyes. Being a doctor is far more about passion to help people and hard work.

    You also must be awfully blind to think that every single IMG goes to the carib just because they didn't get into a US medical school. Some people decide to go to medical school later, others are in super competitive states for which the population far exceeds the number of medical school positions.

    You're comment is by far one of the most ignorant I've read in a long time.

    *Edit* I forgot to add not everyone would take a DO school in the US over an MD school in the Caribbean.
  5. dan0909

    dan0909 Senior Member 10+ Year Member

    Oct 11, 2002

    EM_CHICK 7+ Year Member

    Nov 5, 2006
    The University of Arizona College of Medicine did infact open up a new medical school in Phoenix (however, it did only take 24 applicants for the upcoming year, with plans to extend to 100+ within the next 4-5 years) HOWEVER...It is currently open ONLY to Arizona residents with some discussion in the next few years of opening 10% of spots (ie. just a few) to out of state don't count this as a new program since residents of 49 other states DO NOT qualify...
  7. MD Dreams

    MD Dreams Senior Member 10+ Year Member

    Dec 12, 2001
    There is a lot of discrimination against IMG grads, especially Carib grads. Some people go to Carib schools becuase they are slackers and want to continue slacking. Some others, myself included, go to Carib schools because certain life issues outside of their control, prevented them from performing their best in pre-med, they got a second chance through a Carib school, and they made every second count. Becoming a good doctor is about heart, how bad do you want it, how hard will you work to get it. Just because we go to school in a different longitude and latitude does not mean we are not going to be incredible doctors, even if the odds are against us. For those of us who want it, it just make us work that much harder for it.
  8. canengire


    Mar 22, 2007
    EM Chick... I agree, U of Arizona only takes state residents, and the other 49 states DO NOT qualify.

    Much like UC schools take 90+% California residents, and the other 49 states DO NOT qualify., etc etc.

    However, the Arizona future grads will be added to the TOTAL AMG POOL and the DO QUALIFY for the NRMP and will apply to residencies accross the nation.

    My point is to simply state that the AMG pool will grow in future residencies matches, therefore making it even tougher for IMGs. Which US state these grads call home is irrelevant. These Arizona residents will be competing for residencies in Arizona as well as the other 49 states.
  9. canengire


    Mar 22, 2007
    I agree AGAIN with you MD Dreams, just like I agree with IMGs who , if they could chose it over again would go to an american MD or DO school.

    I agree, I agree, I agree, and I especially agree when you say that "it just make us work that much harder for it."

    Pop quiz, with more AMGs graduating in future years, will it be?
    a) even more harder
    b) less harder

    I know that there are exceptional IMGs that land competetive residencies, no one is going to deny that. Why even bring this issue. The vast majority of residents in derm, optho, rad onc, are American.

    Even with fields like IM and Gen Surgery, which this year was MUCH MORE competitive than recent years, imagine how much MORE of an uphill battle in the residency interview process Caribbean IMGs will have when there become more AMGs ( and yes Arizona will only contribute slightly their first year out).

    Maybe this thread should also go to the premed forums as well, as this recent emergence of american schools is surley welcome news for US premeds.


    I specifically responded to a question regarding Caribbean IMG chances if you scroll up. In no way should they be associated with FMGs from India & China etc, who if they are in the states, are many times very impressive and a joy to work with.
  10. mgdsh

    mgdsh 10+ Year Member

    Mar 15, 2007
    That said is just fine, but what you said earlier is that Carib IMGs are that because they were slackers in undergrad. That is not the case for all of us so it's really not fair for you to stereotype like that.

    MD Dreams earlier replied that he/she had different circumstances in undergrad which is why that person is at a Carib school.

    I honestly don't know what you picture our Carib med schools to be like, but they are definitely not out in paradise. The best two schools (Ross/St. Georges) are on islands that resemble third world countries and many of us have to leap through hurdles and constantly have to walk around with a chip on our shoulders / constantly have to prove ourselves. That is bad enough, but when people make ignorant comments saying we were all slackers in undergrad, well thats just not right.

    I personally chose to go to Ross because it offered me the oppurtunity to save me some time. I started Ross at 20 years old and didn't have the insight in high school to join an accelerated undergrad / md program. I never applied to one US med or DO school. Would I have gotten in? I can't say either way.

    I'm from CA and as posters on this thread have mentioned, alot of med schools are very biased towards their own state. CA med schools are probably more competitive than alot of the other med schools in the US. Could I possibly have not met the requirements for a CA med school but met the requirements for another med school in the US? Its possible, but again who knows.

    I definitely agree with you things for IMGs in the future will probably be harder. But you have to understand that it's been a long damn time since the US has added new medical schools and all these are simply recent developments. You have to factor in that there is already a physician shortage in many specialties, and the population will continue to grow.

    I have a younger brother who is in undergrad and is currently debating if he should go to medical school in the future. I have specifically told him that if he's to do so I don't want him applying to any schools but US schools. There's just so much stacked against us as IMGs, including biases and opinions that arent necessarily true.

    In short, given the chance to do things over, I would have completed undergrad and actually applied to US med schools. But I've learned alot from the route I've taken, and I don't consider myself a slacker. I doubt MD Dreams considers himself/herself a slacker either.
  11. canengire


    Mar 22, 2007
    Alriiiite, not all 100% of Carib IMGs were undergrad slackers, there are always exceptions to the rule. Aside from slackers, there are those who
    1) work hard yet aren't smart
    2) those who are smart but are train wrecks at interviews, and of course there are a
    3)few geniuses that go to SGU because they want the challenge of exceling offshore rather than in the states. In all fairness, there is a full slate of characters.

    but generally speaking, carib IMGs get screwed over and it becomes evident not just at residency interview time, but also beyond. Also, if you guys only hear what attendings, residents, and american students says behind your backs, and at times to your face, justified or not, thats the reality. It's good that you care enough for your brother to spare him from this.

    BUT,you want to know who really gives Carib IMG a bad rep? its the atcual Carib students who reveal that "most of my class has people that don't even belong in medicine."

    You consider only an 8 year hiatus of US med school additions to be that long a time? Also, the physician shortage is one of the major reasons behind new US med school additions in the first place. The # of residency positions outnumbers the # of AMGs available to fill these slots, therefore they want to rectify this by increasing the AMG pool, get it?

    Finally!! Just supports the argument
  12. MacGyver

    MacGyver Banned Banned

    Aug 8, 2001
    You guys are mistaken. DO schools have been expanding for years and really never stopped. Its only allopathics that lay dormant for awhile, but over the next few years we are going to see the biggest expansion in med schools since the Flexner report of 1919.

    Its all a load of bull**** to be sure. Most of the reasons these new schools are being built has NOTHING to do with doctor supply and everything to do with cities/universities wanting free federal $$$ via the NIH and the perceived economic boost that a med school brings to the area.

    In other words you are being whored out by fools who know nothing about what they are doing.

    Here's the official new med school list. I'll copy it below:


    MD - University of Hawaii-Kakaako - 2006
    DO - Touro/Las Vegas - 2005
    DO - PCOM/Atlanta - 2005
    MD - University of Miami/FAU joint program - 2004
    MD - Cleveland Clinic/Lerner - 2004
    DO - LECOM/Bradenton - 2004
    MD - Florida State University - 2002
    DO - VCOM - 2002


    MD - Florida International Univ - 2008
    MD - Univ Central Florida - 2008
    MD - Touro/NJ - 2008
    DO - Touro (Harlem NY) - 2008
    DO - Pacific Northwest (Yakima WA) - 2007
    MD - Michigan State University (Grand Rapids MI) - 2008
    MD - University of Arizona (Phoenix AZ) - 2007
    DO - AT Still University (Mesa AZ) - 2007
    DO - Lincoln Memorial/Debusk (Harrogate TN) - 2007


    MD - University of Cal Merced (Merced CA)
    MD - University of Cal Riverside (Riverside CA)
    MD - University of Texas El Paso (El Paso TX)
    DO - Vista (Colorado)
    MD - OHSU (Eugene OR)
    DO - MSUCOM (Detroit MI)
    DO - Barry University (Miami FL)
    MD - CUNY/Hunter College (NY, NY)
    MD - Virginia Tech/Carilion (private, Roanoke VA)
  13. mgdsh

    mgdsh 10+ Year Member

    Mar 15, 2007
    You seem to miss the point. I agree with you on most everything (most AMG spots is a good thing, things in the future for IMGs will just be harder, having the chance to do it again I would have taken a shot at the normal route in applying to US MD schools... as opposed to the alternative,etc). I just take offense to the comment you posted in your first post.

    for a refresher...

    While you've taken a step back from that stance, you still haven't fully acknowledged that.

    I'll also address one other thing you said. You're right alot of IMGs will say that they have alot of classmates who simply don't care much for being doctors etc. These kids are definitely bad seeds, but you can only hope the process will weed them out. But to the flip side of it, there are also great doctors who have come as IMGs (& FMGs).

    If anything, I hope these newer US med schools don't have huge biases towards people from their originating states. Some of the better IMGs I've come to know ended up being IMGs simply because of that reason.
  14. canengire


    Mar 22, 2007
    Yeah, I meant the hiatus was for MD schools, not the DO schools, I wasn't clear.

    DO schools emerge much more frequently in recent years, but it looks like both MD and DO as eveident by your throrough list are in on it.

    Yes, the "politically correct" justifcation is doctor supply shortage/ # of resdiency spots in excess of AMGs.

    But as the AAMC concluded, investing $1.00 in a US medschool returns $1.30 back in local economic growth. 300 students per year at some schools = huge dividends.

    I totally forgot about Clevland Clinic Med School!!, if I had to pick one new school that has the most potential to whip butt, its that one.
  15. FPforLife

    FPforLife Junior Member 2+ Year Member

    Apr 18, 2006
    I also think its a good thing that schools are expanding. My only concern is that are there enough good teaching hospitals to support the growth, I think that is still unclear in many areas. Great you have the first two years set but then 3rd and 4th year which in my opinion are more important you are struggling to find rotations in the area.
    I agree that many IMG's are wicked smart and talented, but I think there is too much stacked against them to make going to one of these schools worth it. In the state I'm in they can't moonlight in residency, which to me would suck.
  16. bulgethetwine

    bulgethetwine Banned Banned 10+ Year Member

    Jan 4, 2005
    You're kind of a weird dude(-ette?), aren't you?

    I mean.... what's your agenda here anyway?

    Rabble rousing to the nth degree at the level of bloody medical school? I'll tell you this -- maybe the proportion of AMGs/IMGs will change, maybe it won't, but for any given individual, the sky is the limit. I know AMGs who couldn't get an even moderately competitive residency, and some IMGs who grabbed surgery, EM, anesthesia and other competitive spots (at least, they were competitive when I was starting residency).

    Anyway, carry on. You're at least entertaining, but you really don't have much insight into what matters anyway in the end -- when you go to get that first (and subsequent) attending level jobs, nobody gives a frosted rat's a** what medical school you went to. You'll be judged on the individual traits you've demonstrated, the competency you possess, and the confidence you exude. And for any given individual, those things can still be achieved no matter where you went to med school.

    I suspect this is cold comfort to you, because you're probably gearing up for a residency match yourself one day and hoping that some good IMGs don't give you any competition.
  17. canengire


    Mar 22, 2007
    Agenda, okaaaaaaaay. Did it ever occur to you that the original question at the top of the thread was trying to be answered? Not just give a half a**'d answer, but with some rationale behind it. He/she asked a specific qs of how "hard" it would be.

    Niiiiice, excellent job of repeating what I just said, that there are some IMGs that get competitive residencies, except you just substituted EM for rad onc. slick. You know AMGs that couldn't get moderately competitive residencies? really? woooow good for you, me too, in fact I know AMGs that couldn't even pass their courses and are on academic probabtion. talk about TANGENTIALITY.

    Now you my friend are entertaining. If anyone is going to be competition, well the last people on earth would be fellow AMGs because after all they are rockbottom on the totem pole. It's funny how you think just b/c you are an attending(?) you can speak on behalf of students, residents, attendings, and even discriminatory PDs (playing devil's advocate) and state that no one give's a rat a**.

    Maybe at your stage in your career you don't run into any more discrimination, but if you think of it .....if no one truly gave a rat's a**,
    then NO ONE would give a rat's a** enough to discriminate against IMGs in the FIRST PLACE and give them the hardest time.

    Read up above, other IMG posters will gladly tell you that they have been on the receiving end of bias and discrimination, so please don't tell me no one gives a damn, especially those "pompous" PDs who will absolutely refuse to even offer you guys an interview.

    And yes I am weird, but more importantly by default , I lack bedside manner and empathy and compassion, blah blah. I implore you to carry on too, because trust me, I can't entertain unless I have some more material to work off of, and your perfect.
  18. awdc

    awdc Senior Member 7+ Year Member

    Jul 13, 2002
    Actually, fill rates in the match have been increasing for at least the past few years for FM but also the number of positions offered each year has been decreasing. If interest in FM continues the way it is and the number of US med graduates continue to increase, we'll be seeing a lot of people scrambling into FM spots that just don't want to be there. Now that's just sad. Hopefully, things will change for the better.
  19. EctopicFetus

    EctopicFetus Keeping it funky enough 10+ Year Member

    May 3, 2004
    Great thread. truth is opening up these spots will basically make it harder for non AMGs and lets be honest harder for DOs unless the DO residencies open up more spots. The govt is threatening to give less money for residency training in general, if this happens it is bad news for Medical students. Lastly, it will only become harder for FMGs. IMO this is not that bad. Right now ~50% of medicine residents are FMGs, and the language barrier is often significant. I cant tell you how many times i had to translate between my "english" speaking resident and my "english" speaking patient.

    Honestly it doesnt make much sense to allow FMGs access into these money making, highly necessary positions while limiting them to US grads.

    The real issue is what will people do when they cant get into fields they want? 1 of 2 things will happen

    1)They will be forced into fields they dont want typically less competetive primary care type fields.

    2) people will have to do post grad research to get into many fields like many do before getting into MD school.

    Fetus out!
  20. EctopicFetus

    EctopicFetus Keeping it funky enough 10+ Year Member

    May 3, 2004
    This is already happening. Last yr I know 3 people who didnt match, one each into G Surg, Gas and EM. All 3 ended up doing FP. If you dont think this is how it is now you probably havent been close enough to it.
  21. canengire


    Mar 22, 2007

    I think before DO residencies open up more spots, they first should at least know how to attract more DOs to go to them. There are allopathic programs where half of the residents are DOs. I wonder how bad the unfill rate is of DO residencies is, since so many of them take the USMLE and apply for MD residencies instead.
  22. McDoctor

    McDoctor Over One Billion Cured 5+ Year Member

    Feb 13, 2006
    This could be relatively easy. The AOA and respective osteopathic specialty colleges need to let go of the vacuous notion that DO's are "unique", stop treating OMT like religious dogma and start teaching it like a science, and in keeping OMT scientific, limit its emphasis in primary care to treating some types of painful musculoskeletal conditions, period.

    But I won't hold my breath.
  23. NewHope

    NewHope 2+ Year Member

    Feb 23, 2007
    So do you guys U.S IMGs doomed for residency just like true foreigners? I mean for things like IM, FP, Psych? Not really looking for anything else at this stage of the game. There were quite a few FP spots unfilled this year. And many IMGs already took prematch offers. With the projected shortage of all specialties, older folks migrating to underserved areas for their retirement does it make any sense to limit many qulified U.S IMGs just where you'd need more help? Sounds counterproductive to me, but scary to go Carib route, which I was just to embark on :scared:
  24. effwun

    effwun 2+ Year Member

    Nov 20, 2006
    Just to make a small point here.

    Most everyone has probably heard about the 'projected physician shortage' by 2020. Estimates range from 80,000 on up.

    From the list MacGyver posted, there are 17 new schools that have opened recently, or will open in the next 1-2 years.

    Let's just assume all of them will graduate 150 students next year there would be roughly 38000 new doctors in 15 years that wouldn't have been accounted for when they were figuring the number of physicians we would be short. Obviously this is bogus because half of the schools aren't open, and the ones that did open recently won't graduate students for a few more years, but it just goes to prove my point. So it seems, at least for the next decade or so, IMGs will still have a lot of spots to match into that simply cannot be filled by AMGs because they don't exist.

    That being said, obviously it isn't going to get any easier for IMGs.
  25. mellsworth21

    mellsworth21 2+ Year Member

    Jan 1, 2007
    Wooster, Ohio.
    OP- I already dont like you. Get over yourself and your half thought out agenda.
  26. Dr.McNinja

    Dr.McNinja Nobel War Prize Winner Moderator Physician Faculty 10+ Year Member

    Aug 2, 2006
    Unless they increase the number of residency slots, this growth can't go on for too much longer. Right now there are more spots than US grads. 10 years from now, with the way FM is losing spots, and more students, this may not be the case.

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