New AOA residency in St. Louis

[flight24]

http://opportunities.osteopathic.or...essionid=f030a60e506c7257bf8b199711f722237041

Anyone have any information regarding this program? In general, what's the consensus on AOA psych residencies (I know there aren't too many of them)? Thanks.

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[st2205]

Wow. Just overused that and it appears they've opened about 10 programs since I last checked a few months ago. Couldn't tell you anything about the program other than it pays well relative to other DO programs and gives 23 days of vacation, which is more than any program I've heard of.

 

[whopper]

I'm in St. Louis but I'm still figuring out the territory. I heard there will be a new program opening so I figure it's got to be the one in the link. All I know is based on rumor.

 

[shan564]

I'm in St. Louis - I'm interested to learn which hospitals they're based at. I'm somewhat familiar with the PD because he sees a large volume of patients, so we've all seen many of his patients in the ER and elsewhere... he semi-runs a private psych hospital . I'd be hopeful if that hospital is expanding into a more educational role, since they see a lot of patients, and it'd be nice to see those patients getting the additional attention of a resident (i.e. easier to reach a doctor on the patient's caring team, more detailed documentation, etc.).

 

[whopper]

Shan, PM or call me sometime. I know who you're talking about. The addition of a residency program could be a good thing or actually a bad thing.

 

[Dharma]

So they're still adding AOA programs when we're on the verge of rolling everything over to ACGME in the next few years? Interesting.

 

[psychattending]

I'm in St. Louis - I'm interested to learn which hospitals they're based at. I'm somewhat familiar with the PD because he sees a large volume of patients, so we've all seen many of his patients in the ER and elsewhere... he semi-runs a private psych hospital . I'd be hopeful if that hospital is expanding into a more educational role, since they see a lot of patients, and it'd be nice to see those patients getting the additional attention of a resident (i.e. easier to reach a doctor on the patient's caring team, more detailed documentation, etc.).

The address listed is that of Christian Hospital. Since they just closed their inpatient psychiatry unit, I will be interested in seeing how the training program is going to be structured.

 

[flight24]

Thanks for the reply everyone. Seems like there aren't too much info yet since it's so new still. Perhaps it will help for those that have ties in the St. Louis area.

 

[flight24]

So they're still adding AOA programs when we're on the verge of rolling everything over to ACGME in the next few years? Interesting.

It seems like in general more so now than previously that it's is risky going AOA since there's a chance that the location may close down if they don't meet the more stringent ACGME requirements for the merger.

 

[whopper]

Does an AOA residency have lesser requirements than other residencies?

 

[Dharma]

Does an AOA residency have lesser requirements than other residencies?

I don't think requirements are less per se, but there are a number of regarding paid faculty, number of residents per class, etc that may not meet current ACGME requirements. (Maybe someone a bit more in the know can comment). Most programs are in the process of transition though. The AOA program I rotated at were most definitely pushing the limit in terms of hours restrictions. They were easily crushing that 80 hour week EVERY week. Not sure how much teaching was going; seemed to be more trial by fire.

 

[Flushot]

Does an AOA residency have lesser requirements than other residencies?

I did intern year in an AOA place before coming to my ACGME program and I can say that facility and faculty wise, the requirements are less. Most of the guidelines and terminology are similar, along with numbers for things like clinic patients, but just like with the med school side, it doesn't take much to start up a residency program with the AOA.
The timing is odd as the others say because the merger requires all the AOA programs to submit a request for an ACGME evaluation, which could take months to complete and even longer to appeal if the first sweep has issues. When I left my program in spring 2014, they had just submitted their request, so assuming this specific program starts up in a year, would they just submit for ACGME approval at the same time? I really have no idea what they would do.

 

[whopper]

I can tell you this.
I don't see how this place can get residency unless it has lesser restrictions. I've said this before and I'll say it again. I do not see DOs as somehow lesser and I have two cousins-one with a DO, and the other working on a DO. That said when I heard my cousin's curriculum of where she had psych rotation options-at hospital with no attached residency, and remembering friends in DO school do their psych rotation with a psych attending who was not part of a psych residency and pretty much made half their curriculum to watch movies like Awakenings, I have to say that this type of curriculum would be weaker than an MD based curriculum where students are placed into hospitals with an active psych residency program.

 

[whopper]

I agree with you but in terms of policy, not in terms of specific places, I find the policy of placing students into a residency with academic physicians in an organized teaching structure a better sounding environment than attaching to an attending. In the latter the teaching is very much up to that one person.

 

[Flushot]

I can tell you this.
I don't see how this place can get residency unless it has lesser restrictions. I've said this before and I'll say it again. I do not see DOs as somehow lesser and I have two cousins-one with a DO, and the other working on a DO. That said when I heard my cousin's curriculum of where she had psych rotation options-at hospital with no attached residency, and remembering friends in DO school do their psych rotation with a psych attending who was not part of a psych residency and pretty much made half their curriculum to watch movies like Awakenings, I have to say that this type of curriculum would be weaker than an MD based curriculum where students are placed into hospitals with an active psych residency program.

I agree with all of this. There's plenty of examples in DO schools and residents that cut corners and are generally less 'academic' than their counterparts, so to say that this particular program is coming in with more lax requirements is not out of the question. This is why I like the merger, despite the impending doom of several programs that should never have existed in the first place. Psych has some pretty specific needs and the DO psych world is so small that the osteo board doesn't even have their own website as far as I remember. I would be highly skeptical of this program as an applicant given all these factors and ones we spoke of already.

 

[microshar88]

I'm wondering with all these new AOA residencies opening up, which one is better in terms of work load and education balance?

 

[shan564]

I'm wondering with all these new AOA residencies opening up, which one is better in terms of work load and education balance?

It's hard to tell at this stage - they'll develop their reputations after some residents have gone through the program and given feedback. You could interview and try to get a rough idea. You could ask the local doctors what they think about the PD, but they might be reluctant to give honest opinions in a public forum.