New car out of residency

[Mman]

Tesla is a low maintenance car.

Tesla cars have not been on the road long enough in large enough numbers to make that statement. A Honda is a low maintenance car.

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[Planktonmd]

I know the going rule of thumb is to live like a resident for a period of time after residency to build up savings/pay off loans, etc. Is it worth buying a nice car as the only reward for finally being done? Thinking about Tesla (only because $7500 tax refund will be running out by end of year), or atleast a good quality used car. I figured before having a family and then never enjoying life when all the money will go towards kids, it would be nice to have 1 vice, especially in a dual income household. Never know when the grim reaper will show up, it would be nice to enjoy life a little bit too instead of bracing for the sky to fall forever. We definitely will try to shore up all the retirement accounts and maximize loan repayments as feasible of course as well.

The problem is what do you do when the warranty runs out and your shiny Tesla starts falling apart?

 

[Planktonmd]

You can't compare a performance car like a Tesla with a Toyota or Lexus. I don't drive a Toyota/Lexus bc they are boring as fuk and drive like ass. You compare a Tesla to other comparable performance cars. If your priority is value and reliabilty, go with a Toyota and drive it into the dirt. Not everyone is like you or thinks like you. You're not more right than they are and they're not more right than you. How do you not understand this? I'm sure most would agree that great experiences are worth spending money to experience them. For many, driving a great car is an experience worth the money.

The experience lasts about a couple of weeks then you face reality and realize that you made a terrible investment.
I say if you want one of these cars it makes more sense to lease than to buy.

 

[Shimmy8]

Right out of residency bought 2 year old SUV. 20k miles. Same car as what I drove for the previous 14(!!) years that I ran into the ground.

Love it. Best money I spent in the first year out.

 

[deleted171991]

Any 45k sign on jobs left in the States?

A ton of them. You give 45K to a recruiter, and they find you a job. You may not like it, though.

 

[deleted171991]

You can't compare a performance car like a Tesla with a Toyota or Lexus. I don't drive a Toyota/Lexus bc they are boring as fuk and drive like ass. You compare a Tesla to other comparable performance cars. If your priority is value and reliabilty, go with a Toyota and drive it into the dirt. Not everyone is like you or thinks like you. You're not more right than they are and they're not more right than you. How do you not understand this? I'm sure most would agree that great experiences are worth spending money to experience them. For many, driving a great car is an experience worth the money.

I agree with that 100%. I still stand by the opinion that, coming out of residency, buying a Tesla is a financially dumb decision, which usually snowballs into many other financially dumb decisions along the years. These young docs should be frugal like startup businesses, until they accumulate enough capital for a safety net.

Buying a Tesla (or even a Ferrari) with $5-10M in a the bank is a different story (although I personally wouldn't). Life is short, and nobody takes their money with them into the afterlife.

 

[cchoukal]

In a similar vein I once got a good deal on a 3 year old Porsche with 11000 miles on it. Drove the crap out of it putting an additional 60000 miles on it over the next 3 years. Then a drunk driver ran into it and totaled it. My insurance company gave me $600o less than what I paid for it. Overall it was one of the cheapest cars I ever drove. Tires were the only big maintenance item. It was fun to drive and problem free.

You can get some pretty sick 996 porsches for the price of a new Camry. That’s my new plan.

 

[DocVapor]

The experience lasts about a couple of weeks then you face reality and realize that you made a terrible investment.
I say if you want one of these cars it makes more sense to lease than to buy.

To your first point: No. Not if you truly love driving, which many of us do. If you're truly a performance enthusiast, getting into the ride you love will keep you happy for years and years.

Your second point about leasing has some merit.

 

[deleted697127]

Seriously, I drive about 20,000 miles/year, and you don't wanna know how many times I am stuck behind an expensive car with my $20K econobox (currently worth 10K). And then, I am the one accelerating to pass them, while they are driving at 55-60 mph. It's ridiculous. Especially when it's a BMW or similar. I swear many people drive econoboxes faster.

There are very few places where one can really enjoy a fast car in the US. Even out West, I was cautioned not to drive fast in the middle of nowhere, because of the cops. I drive faster on the East Coast than in Las Vegas (apparently they fine you even at 5 mph above the limit). It's like getting excited that whatever expensive fluid improves BP in the ICU by 10 mmHg for an hour, while mortality stays the same. Some idiots have set the speed limit at 55 in most of the country (for efficiency reasons, back when there were oil embargoes and gas guzzlers), and that's how it still is (65-70 if you're lucky). Let's not mention the traffic. Where I live, the *****s-in-chief close down 2 lanes of highway for miles, while working on a 300 yard-section of one lane.



But, hey, I am not arguing. De gustibus...

Are you Dwight Schrute?

 

[GravelRider]

What are people doing with performance cars other than using them as a fashion accessory? Doing some sweet merges on the highway? Accelerating quickly on the on-ramp? Do people take them to the track? It’s a serious question. I’m trying to understand because as soon as I start driving, I can think of about 5 million other things I’d rather be doing. I’ve driven “fun” cars and it’s just not something that holds my attention very long.

As for myself, reliability is probably the most important feature of a car. That’s what would hold me back the most from considering Tesla. There’s just not enough data to judge their reliability. I don’t view cars as disposable and I want something I can perform my own minor maintenance and repairs on. I’m not sure I could do that with a Tesla. However, I do think we have hit a sort of event horizon with electric vehicles. It’ll be interesting to see what happens over the next 5-10 years with bigger companies like Volvo saying they will be all electric in the near future.

For all the knocks against Toyota/Lexus, they are probably the best cars to buy new. They really don’t depreciate much in value in the first few years, so if you absolutely hate it, it’s not a big financial loss on resale. Jeep Wranglers hold their value well too, but they tend to spend a lot of time at the mechanic.

 

[pgg]

What are people doing with performance cars other than using them as a fashion accessory? Doing some sweet merges on the highway? Accelerating quickly on the on-ramp? Do people take them to the track? It’s a serious question. I’m trying to understand because as soon as I start driving, I can think of about 5 million other things I’d rather be doing. I’ve driven “fun” cars and it’s just not something that holds my attention very long.

It's the difference between eating a meal at a nice restaurant, vs Taco Bell. Of course, the REALLY smart people just stay home and boil some generic spaghetti noodles and pour on the leftover half-jar of Ragu that's been in the back of the fridge for two months because that is objectively the best financial decision.

Or if you're going to cook something at home, it's the difference between chopping stuff up with a $200 chef's knife, vs using the off-brand zinc plated steak knives you bought in the housewares section of Ace Hardware.

Or watching a movie on a 50" plasma with a high end surround audio receiver, instead of the 30" 4:3 curved front CRT television with built-in speakers you've had since 1998.

Or running an air conditioner in the summer, vs sitting next to a box fan.

Or buying good seats to a sporting event, vs watching the highlights the next day on your 3-year-old smartphone's cracked screen because it still works and the cracks don't really block much of the screen.

The joy of doing things and having and using nice stuff is worth something.

 

[sevoflurane]

What are people doing with performance cars other than using them as a fashion accessory? Doing some sweet merges on the highway? Accelerating quickly on the on-ramp? Do people take them to the track? It’s a serious question. I’m trying to understand because as soon as I start driving, I can think of about 5 million other things I’d rather be doing. I’ve driven “fun” cars and it’s just not something that holds my attention very long.

Yes. Some people track their cars. I have colleagues that track corvettes, mcclarens, porches (old school porches are more fun to track compared to a gt2 or a gt3), lambos and R8s. They also drive them to work.

Personally, I don't track anything, but I love being in my vehicles. Get in, jam out to some Kaskade or some Fugees, do some thinking, and just chill. It sets my mood for the day.

For me, driving is extremely peaceful and relaxing.

 

[sevoflurane]

Apparently this thing is a legend and a super fun porche to track. I don’t know much about porches, but my friends here love this thing.

 

[deleted171991]

Are you Dwight Schrute?

Unfortunately not. He's much smarter than me.

 

[Psai]

Apparently this thing is a legend and a super fun porche to track. I don’t know much about porches, but my friends here love this thing.

Yuck...

 

[Arch Guillotti]

Apparently this thing is a legend and a super fun porche to track. I don’t know much about porches, but my friends here love this thing.

Nice car. Terrible tires and wheels though!

 

[sevoflurane]

Nice car. Terrible tires and wheels though!

Fairly sure they swap out the wheels and tires when they track it. Not sure though.

I think the late 80’s 911 have some serious followers. Basic 911s with 80-100k miles from that time go for 60k. Talk about retaining value. Not my cup of tea though.

 

[abolt18]

Any advice on how to research and inspect a used car to make sure that you are not inheriting a bunch of problems that the previous owner may have created? I have actually never bought a used car since I became an attending out of fear of them being potentially unreliable but understand how much value you can get out of them if they’re in good shape.

I would love to get a Macan Turbo and realize that they are available for half the price with only 12-15,000 miles on them.

"fear of them being potentially unreliable."

This is amusing to me. >90% of the cars I see on the side of the road are far newer than my vehicles.

My personal vehicles have included '96 Honda Civic with >200K miles. Never had an issue or breakdown. Had only to replace a battery. Bought it for $1K and 4 yrs later sold it for $800 and bought a bicycle for med school.

3.5 yrs ago I bought a 2002 Oldsmobile Alero with 120K miles on it for $1300. No issues since I've bought it other than having to replace the battery. Gets me from A to B very reliably.

My wife drives a 2005 Toyota Sienna that we bought 2.5 yrs ago (needed room for a 3rd child) for $5K. We've replaced a battery and put 2 new tires on it. Nothing more.

People's fear of used vehicles being unreliable is so unbelievably unfounded. I have driven nothing but old cars and never had any major issues. My parents and most of my siblings? The same. It's a lame excuse. I could literally buy my current vehicle 20-40 times for the same cost that people are buying new cars and if I only got a year or two out of each one I'd still come out way ahead.

You can afford a new vehicle and can afford it easily? Go ahead and do it. But "reliability" is just an excuse, and not a very good one at that.



-I should add that I would love to buy a dramatically newer vehicle for the many cool features that come with them these days, but it just isn't in the budget yet as a resident with a family. I will never take out a loan for a vehicle again. I will probably never buy brand new, but 1-2yrs used has great appeal to me one day.

 

[GravelRider]

It's the difference between eating a meal at a nice restaurant, vs Taco Bell. Of course, the REALLY smart people just stay home and boil some generic spaghetti noodles and pour on the leftover half-jar of Ragu that's been in the back of the fridge for two months because that is objectively the best financial decision.

Or if you're going to cook something at home, it's the difference between chopping stuff up with a $200 chef's knife, vs using the off-brand zinc plated steak knives you bought in the housewares section of Ace Hardware.

Or watching a movie on a 50" plasma with a high end surround audio receiver, instead of the 30" 4:3 curved front CRT television with built-in speakers you've had since 1998.

Or running an air conditioner in the summer, vs sitting next to a box fan.

Or buying good seats to a sporting event, vs watching the highlights the next day on your 3-year-old smartphone's cracked screen because it still works and the cracks don't really block much of the screen.

The joy of doing things and having and using nice stuff is worth something.

Not really. Your analogies are comparing something of good quality vs. bad quality. A Toyota is good quality...just not fun. Many of those fancy cars are not good quality. It’s the reason you can get a 3 year old BMW for a 50% discount.

I would almost always rather eat home cooked food to overpriced/over-salted restaurant food. I cut that food with a $20 knife from restaurant supply store that is much sharper than that $300 knife from the mall store. All it cost me was 20 minutes in my basement with my sharpening stones.

I’m just wondering if people actually utilize the performance of these vehicles or is it just a fashion accessory? It’s the same with the lifted Jeep Wranglers you see parked at the mall.

 

[pgg]

Not really. Your analogies are comparing something of good quality vs. bad quality. A Toyota is good quality...just not fun. Many of those fancy cars are not good quality. It’s the reason you can get a 3 year old BMW for a 50% discount.

I would almost always rather eat home cooked food to overpriced/over-salted restaurant food. I cut that food with a $20 knife from restaurant supply store that is much sharper than that $300 knife from the mall store. All it cost me was 20 minutes in my basement with my sharpening stones.

I’m just wondering if people actually utilize the performance of these vehicles or is it just a fashion accessory? It’s the same with the lifted Jeep Wranglers you see parked at the mall.

I give up. Do what you enjoy. I'm not trying to make you like what I like.

 

[Twiggidy]

Not really. Your analogies are comparing something of good quality vs. bad quality. A Toyota is good quality...just not fun. Many of those fancy cars are not good quality. It’s the reason you can get a 3 year old BMW for a 50% discount.

I would almost always rather eat home cooked food to overpriced/over-salted restaurant food. I cut that food with a $20 knife from restaurant supply store that is much sharper than that $300 knife from the mall store. All it cost me was 20 minutes in my basement with my sharpening stones.

I’m just wondering if people actually utilize the performance of these vehicles or is it just a fashion accessory? It’s the same with the lifted Jeep Wranglers you see parked at the mall.

Some people do utilize their performance, they just might find themselves at traffic school. As sevo said, some do track their cars too. Otherwise, I do agree, to an extent it is a fashion show, but then it just comes down to whatever brings you joy in life. We all work pretty hard and have pretty stressful lives so it's nice to go outside or go home and look at something and say, "Yeah. This is MY ****." Some may get that same pleasure by living in a 2 bd apt and driving a Honda Civic and looking at their bank statement. To each is own. I waste money flying first class, but I also work hard, so being able to lie down and drink awful champagne makes me happy.

There's A LOT of things ALL OF US can do that would make more sense financially, but then how happy are you?

*said as I'm probably on my way to the car dealership right now*

 

[deleted162650]

Some things are bad for the wallet, but good for the soul.

 

[Planktonmd]

Some things are bad for the wallet, but good for the soul.

True! But you should always try to get your money's worth... if you can!

 

[Twiggidy]

True! But you should always try to get your money's worth... if you can!

Exactly. There’s plenty of luxury out there that also offers reliability

 

[NITRAS]

Some things are bad for the wallet, but good for the soul.

One of my best friends has a Nissan GTR, wife drives an Escalade SUV, and he’s got a pimped out Jeep. Like over $200k in cars. And he’s still looking for his next car. He works his ass off and makes a lot more than me.

I’m kind of afraid my net worth will be larger than his in a couple years.

I’m not a car guy, but I can see the appeal. People can do what they want with their money, but I’d saying buying a luxury car without solid financial foundation is stupid.

 

[Twiggidy]

Although be careful of David Yurman jewelry. The stones will fall out and you’ll be pissed.

 

[deleted697535]

I spent 20k on a car last year and tbh it was twice as much as I should have... It's a Subaru and reliable as feck but still too much...

I do more trips on my 25$ bike than I do my car...

Buying a Tesla? Seriously? Utter waste of money that will stop working soon. Keep going with gas guzzlers til 2022 or so until Honda etc get in on the market and make it bomb proof

 

[Hamhock]

1. As there's little evidence Tesla cars will "fail" soon, there's little evidence they will never fail. That said, the minimization of moving parts (esp the removal of the internal combustion engine and "drive train") would predict FAR greater reliability.

2. The bicycle remains the best form of transportation for less than 15 miles every created.

3. I suggest all pre-ceeding and future posts preface cash purchase or (god-help the new attending) a loan-based car purchase. Arguments without this info are not open to honest interpretation.

That said, I am more biased than most:
Curing your Clown-Like Car Habit

HH

 

[doctalaughs]

I’m about 10 yrs out and about 2 m in retirement currently saving about 150k/yr after taxes. i drive a 4 yr old 20k extremely reliable car which I plan to keep for at least 10 more years.

Those cars many of my colleagues drive do nothing for me. I don’t fault how they spend their money at all though- whatever makes them happy. As long as they realize their car which costs 50k more than mine means 250k less when they retire. If it gives them 250k in enjoyment, all the power to them.

I have no problem dropping 20k on an amazing family vacation twice a year because hopefully my kids will remember those times forever. If you enjoy cars that much it’s hard for me to understand personally but I guess it must be a similar concept....

 

[nimbus]

I’m about 10 yrs out and about 2 m in retirement currently saving about 150k/yr after taxes. i drive a 4 yr old 20k extremely reliable car which I plan to keep for at least 10 more years.

Those cars many of my colleagues drive do nothing for me. I don’t fault how they spend their money at all though- whatever makes them happy. As long as they realize their car which costs 50k more than mine means 250k less when they retire. If it gives them 250k in enjoyment, all the power to them.

I have no problem dropping 20k on an amazing family vacation twice a year because hopefully my kids will remember those times forever. If you enjoy cars that much it’s hard for me to understand personally but I guess it must be a similar concept....

Exactly! To each his own.

 

[Mman]

1. As there's little evidence Tesla cars will "fail" soon, there's little evidence they will never fail. That said, the minimization of moving parts (esp the removal of the internal combustion engine and "drive train") would predict FAR greater reliability.

My iphone works great and doesn't have an internal combustion engine, but I'm also pretty sure it won't work quite as well 5 or 10 years from now as it does now.

 

[Psai]

My iphone works great and doesn't have an internal combustion engine, but I'm also pretty sure it won't work quite as well 5 or 10 years from now as it does now.

Well that's because apple is deliberately slowing it down so that you'll buy the iphone xt or whatever they're calling their next minimal upgrade phone

 

[pgg]

That said, I am more biased than most:
Curing your Clown-Like Car Habit

Wow, that's the most smugly pretentious collection of strawman bull**** I've read in weeks, and that's in the context of the last month of SCOTUS confirmation hearings.

 

[GravelRider]

2. The bicycle remains the best form of transportation for less than 15 miles every created.

HH

In an ideal world we would be biking (or walking) to work. However, we are still dealing with a horribly outdated infrastructure in many places that makes commuter cycling dangerous.

 

[Colbare]

Well that's because apple is deliberately slowing it down so that you'll buy the iphone xt or whatever they're calling their next minimal upgrade phone

I have the 6 plus and upgraded to ios 12 recently. Actually increased the speed of my phone enough that I'm now going to wait at least another couple cycles to get a new one. With an update like that it's clear they were holding back older phones intentionally

 

[Arch Guillotti]

Apparently this thing is a legend and a super fun porche to track. I don’t know much about porches, but my friends here love this thing.

The car reminds me of this one. Why ruin an awesome car with mudflaps, a bushwhacker and what appear to be some crazy headlamps!

 

[Twiggidy]

In an ideal world we would be biking (or walking) to work. However, we are still dealing with a horribly outdated infrastructure in many places that makes commuter cycling dangerous.

Accurate......One trip to Amsterdam and riding in those bike lanes had me a very jealous man.

 

[Twiggidy]

Well that's because apple is deliberately slowing it down so that you'll buy the iphone xt or whatever they're calling their next minimal upgrade phone

And you don' think Elon will create a system update to make those cars less efficient? Given his latest antics I don't put that too far off of him.

 

[Twiggidy]

And now that bikes have been mention......

What do you guys think about electric bikes? Some have very far ranges and I've even considered getting one but the ones with longer ranges (which I would need) have the same cost as a small used car or a Vespa.

 

[deleted50478]

And you don' think Elon will create a system update to make those cars less efficient? Given his latest antics I don't put that too far off of him.

I don’t think Elon will do anything since Tesla will probably sell the company to avoid bankruptcy.

 

[GravelRider]

And now that bikes have been mention......

What do you guys think about electric bikes? Some have very far ranges and I've even considered getting one but the ones with longer ranges (which I would need) have the same cost as a small used car or a Vespa.

The correct answer is almost always Vespa.

 

[Psai]

And now that bikes have been mention......

What do you guys think about electric bikes? Some have very far ranges and I've even considered getting one but the ones with longer ranges (which I would need) have the same cost as a small used car or a Vespa.

Last one I saw almost ran me over on the sidewalk so that's a hard no for me

 

[Twiggidy]

Last one I saw almost ran me over on the sidewalk so that's a hard no for me

Which goes back to how poor our infrastructure is for bikes. Even our most "bike friendly cities" have poor bike lines. In Amsterdam they have a car lane separated from a bike lane which is separated from the sidewalk. It really is genius and safe. Problems here is that you would have to a) convince people to pay for it and b) convince people to follow the rules. Over there you'll get cursed out for riding a bike in the pedestrian lane.

 

[Hamhock]

Wow, that's the most smugly pretentious collection of strawman bull**** I've read in weeks, and that's in the context of the last month of SCOTUS confirmation hearings.

Hmmph...tell us more.

If you are making a point (argument), I am not sure I see it...I'd be happy to steelman it, but I need to hear a bit more.

If you are just venting (instead of laughing at what is a pretty funny perspective), then vent on.

Either way, the meat of my post has little to do with that link.

I think the OP, at the very least, needs to ask if the car can be purchased with cash (or 0% loan).

HH

 

[pgg]

Hmmph...tell us more.

If you are making a point (argument), I am not sure I see it...I'd be happy to steelman it, but I need to hear a bit more.

If you are just venting (instead of laughing at what is a pretty funny perspective), then vent on.

Either way, the meat of my post has little to do with that link.

I think the OP, at the very least, needs to ask if the car can be purchased with cash (or 0% loan).

I basically agree with points 1 and 3 of your post. Paying cash is usually the right answer - although there's a reasonable argument to be made for taking advantage of low/zero % dealer financing or certain tax credits or rebates offered by the state. And internal combustion engines are pretty reliable if they're taken care of and built/tuned for longevity ... it remains to be seen if the battery systems of these new EVs will really last and be cheaply serviceable or replaceable.

And bikes are fine as recreational tools, and maybe for some general transportation needs, sometimes, in some places.


To be more specific about the nonsense in that stupid article about "clown cars", rants about drive-thrus, and all the "dinguses" who are "dinguses" because they drive ...

First, the entire tone of the article is condescending, smug, and irritating.

Second, even if I lived in some miracle utopia with 10 foot wide illuminated and paved bike lanes reserved just for pgg, I can't think of a single place I've driven my car in the last week that I could've biked to. Even the places within bike-riding distance, I needed at least a small car's worth of cargo space to carry stuff. I mean - I'm not driving to these places for the sake of moving the mass of my body from point A to B. I actually do things there, that often involve taking or getting things that have properties such as "mass" and "volume". If you want to make four times as many trips to the grocery store on your bike just to feel smug about the reusable organic-hemp-woven saddlebags that permit two whole days of groceries to be carried at a time, be my guest, but don't pretend it's sane.

Third, why would I want to arrive everywhere I go drenched in sweat? I live in a swamp. An actual swamp. A great, dismal, swamp, as a matter of literal fact. Six months out of the year I can barely walk to my mailbox without getting wet. Three more months of the year have several thunderstorms per day. And the rest of the year is mostly cold and nasty out. Why would I want to turn my back on 100 years of advancement in civilization to indulge in some unnecessary sweating or freezing? I'm not mentally ill.

Fourth, I like my car. It has a comfortable chair. I can wear any kind of clothing in it. It has a nice stereo that plays music. It has air conditioning for the hot humid summers and heat for the cold winters. Mosquitos, bees, spiders, and rabid raccoons can't get in. It has room for another person who may offer interesting conversation.


I went to a very bike-friendly university for undergrad (UC Davis might well be THE original poster child for a bikable campus and community) and it was fine, mostly. Still, showing up for class in the summer after biking through 105 degree heat isn't really a compelling positive. And the only reason bikes really worked there, was because they took deliberate steps to make cars inconvenient (limited parking, long distances to walk from parking to campus buildings).

Committed bike enthusiasts are like committed vegans. It's not that I object to them choosing to live their lives in such an inconvenient, uncomfortable way. Some of them make it work, and reap some health and fitness benefits in the process. More power to them. It's just their universally obnoxious, condescending, smug attitude toward everyone else whom they label as lazy, stupid, or maliciously anti-environment.

 

[Twiggidy]

I basically agree with points 1 and 3 of your post. Paying cash is usually the right answer - although there's a reasonable argument to be made for taking advantage of low/zero % dealer financing or certain tax credits or rebates offered by the state. And internal combustion engines are pretty reliable if they're taken care of and built/tuned for longevity ... it remains to be seen if the battery systems of these new EVs will really last and be cheaply serviceable or replaceable.

And bikes are fine as recreational tools, and maybe for some general transportation needs, sometimes, in some places.


To be more specific about the nonsense in that stupid article about "clown cars", rants about drive-thrus, and all the "dinguses" who are "dinguses" because they drive ...

First, the entire tone of the article is condescending, smug, and irritating.

Second, even if I lived in some miracle utopia with 10 foot wide illuminated and paved bike lanes reserved just for pgg, I can't think of a single place I've driven my car in the last week that I could've biked to. Even the places within bike-riding distance, I needed at least a small car's worth of cargo space to carry stuff. I mean - I'm not driving to these places for the sake of moving the mass of my body from point A to B. I actually do things there, that often involve taking or getting things that have properties such as "mass" and "volume". If you want to make four times as many trips to the grocery store on your bike just to feel smug about the reusable organic-hemp-woven saddlebags that permit two whole days of groceries to be carried at a time, be my guest, but don't pretend it's sane.

Third, why would I want to arrive everywhere I go drenched in sweat? I live in a swamp. An actual swamp. A great, dismal, swamp, as a matter of literal fact. Six months out of the year I can barely walk to my mailbox without getting wet. Three more months of the year have several thunderstorms per day. And the rest of the year is mostly cold and nasty out. Why would I want to turn my back on 100 years of advancement in civilization to indulge in some unnecessary sweating or freezing? I'm not mentally ill.

Fourth, I like my car. It has a comfortable chair. I can wear any kind of clothing in it. It has a nice stereo that plays music. It has air conditioning for the hot humid summers and heat for the cold winters. Mosquitos, bees, spiders, and rabid raccoons can't get in. It has room for another person who may offer interesting conversation.


I went to a very bike-friendly university for undergrad (UC Davis might well be THE original poster child for a bikable campus and community) and it was fine, mostly. Still, showing up for class in the summer after biking through 105 degree heat isn't really a compelling positive. And the only reason bikes really worked there, was because they took deliberate steps to make cars inconvenient (limited parking, long distances to walk from parking to campus buildings).

Committed bike enthusiasts are like committed vegans. It's not that I object to them choosing to live their lives in such an inconvenient, uncomfortable way. Some of them make it work, and reap some health and fitness benefits in the process. More power to them. It's just their universally obnoxious, condescending, smug attitude toward everyone else whom they label as lazy, stupid, or maliciously anti-environment.

I think it's more simple than that. It's just that here bikes aren't the norm for transportation. They are more for recreation. I brought up an extreme example of Amsterdam where someone actually may shun you for driving, but they're culturally different there. I'm just starting to lean that way because our roads are getting more dangerous, our infrastructure bad (2 tire replacements in 2 years on my car commuting), and the traffic is getting ridiculous. The population boom has contributed to more cars but also everyone and their mother is a damn Uber or Lyft driver which has increased the amount of cars on the road. Personally, if there was a neon bike lane for twiggidy only, I would ride down that thing to work like Debo ("Friday" reference for those that don't know).

 

[nimbus]

And now that bikes have been mention......

What do you guys think about electric bikes? Some have very far ranges and I've even considered getting one but the ones with longer ranges (which I would need) have the same cost as a small used car or a Vespa.

The problem with all bikes are cars. I could bike commute year round but I commute at odd hours and I don’t like the odds for not getting creamed one day. Same reason I bought a Porsche and not a motorcycle. I like the steel safety cage.

 

[sniderwes]

The problem with all bikes are cars. I could bike commute year round but I commute at odd hours and I don’t like the odds for not getting creamed one day. Same reason I bought a Porsche and not a motorcycle. I like the steel safety cage.

One reason why I'm considering getting an Escalade. There's only so much you can do to ward off the stupidity of other drivers, and only so much protection a Camry will give you.

 

[Psai]

The problem with all bikes are cars. I could bike commute year round but I commute at odd hours and I don’t like the odds for not getting creamed one day. Same reason I bought a Porsche and not a motorcycle. I like the steel safety cage.

We have too many people coming in with tbis from biking for me to use it as my main mode of transportation.

 

[vector2]

If you haven't owned an L494 or the L405 or don't know what is in them then...
18k and only a couple of very small issues. But in case something goes wrong, I have 100k, 8 year bumper to bumper.
I love this ride. Capable on and off road, very well connected (apps, remote start LCD screens everywhere), exceptionally luxurious interior, bad ass styling and 200% fun as faak when you put it in dynamic mode. Soft door close, console fridge, auto access height, lots of little details that make this one special for me.

The V8 tuned to 650 HP is sick and a monster. But hey... haters will hate.

Lol, I'm sure there are a ton of people who aren't car enthusiasts who think Range's are cool (they are) and go out and buy an early 10's or earlier model without having any idea of how much of a money pit they can be. How many of them are smart like you and pony up for extended warranties? Talking to a couple friends who have 14 and 15 RRs, they haven't had any major mechanical problems yet.....so maybe reliability is improving.

Again, this is for earlier models, but doug demuro of youtube fame got a used '06 RR from carmax about 6 years ago. At the time carmax hadn't wised up to what a money pit they were and doug gets a 6 year bumper to bumper for $3900. All said and done, he just did a recent update and the warranty has now shelled out $17k in major and minor repairs.