New Dental School to Open in 2013

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mflinchb

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Thanks a lot ! Keep giving us exiting news like this !
 
That's not enough. I believe at least ten more new dental schools are needful for this country.
 
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That's not enough. I believe at least ten more new dental schools are needful for this country.

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. There's plenty of dentists, they just don't want to go practice in rural/needy areas.
 
I think this is a bad thing...too many new dental schools are opening up. There are plenty of dentists and the number of existing schools is ample to put out enough dentists.
 
There is going to be a lot of dentists retiring in the next 10 to 15 years though, but I agree with the above posters, the issue is with the geographic distribution of the dentists. That is a much more difficult issue.
 
At the moment, there is only ONE dental school to serve all of Missouri and Kansas. This could be a good thing. I think it would make much more sense for the Univ. of Kansas to open a dental school, as Missouri residents are already given precidence at UMKC.
 
At the moment, there is only ONE dental school to serve all of Missouri and Kansas. This could be a good thing. I think it would make much more sense for the Univ. of Kansas to open a dental school, as Missouri residents are already given precidence at UMKC.

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. There's plenty of dentists, they just don't want to go practice in rural/needy areas.

I agree with you guys. However, in retrospect, not many dentists want to practice in rural areas because they still can make pretty decent money in fully saturated areas like major cities in this country. I believe the best way to force(?) dentists out of those regions is pumping out more dentists. By the way, we're gonna see significant proportion (up to 40% by some of estimates) dentists either retiring or reducing their working hours in upcoming decade. So, 10 new schools might be still pretty conservative estimate.:oops:
 
I have to believe that the powers that be know what they are doing and are properly regulating the supply and demand of dentists.

I would have to disagree with you. Unfortunately, the only thing that seems to talk these days is money. If people continue to be willing to pay upwards of 400K for a dental school education, there will continually be new dental schools opening up. The demand is on the part of students wishing to go to dental school, not necessarily the need for dentists.
 
The demand is on the part of students wishing to go to dental school, not necessarily the need for dentists.

The problem I see with that argument is that there is an overwhelming supply of students wishing to go to dental school. I believe the statistics show that 40% or so of applicants get into dental school each year. If they based the number of seats in American dental schools on the amount of students wishing to do to dental school, we would have many more dentists and therefore a far lower ratio of dentists to patients in this country.

I don't claim to know how it works but I would speculate that it is always a balancing act between supply and demand of dentists while making sure the schools are operating to capacity. It is not in the schools' best interests to flood the country with dentists, forcing them to cut rates resulting in dentistry being a less desirable profession which would ultimately lead to a decrease in dental school applications (I have heard many dental schools had to close in the '80s due to this problem).

It's an interesting discussion for sure. I would love to hear from somebody who has experience with the process to grant licences to newly opening schools.
 
The problem I see with that argument is that there is an overwhelming supply of students wishing to go to dental school. I believe the statistics show that 40% or so of applicants get into dental school each year. If they based the number of seats in American dental schools on the amount of students wishing to do to dental school, we would have many more dentists and therefore a far lower ratio of dentists to patients in this country.

I don't claim to know how it works but I would speculate that it is always a balancing act between supply and demand of dentists while making sure the schools are operating to capacity. It is not in the schools' best interests to flood the country with dentists, forcing them to cut rates resulting in dentistry being a less desirable profession which would ultimately lead to a decrease in dental school applications (I have heard many dental schools had to close in the '80s due to this problem).

I just don't know if any institution, anywhere, anymore considers what's in their best interests for the long term. Short term yeah no doubt, but long term seems hard to reconcile w/ all that is going on in all different kinds of professions and sectors of the economy.
 
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By the way, we're gonna see significant proportion (up to 40% by some of estimates) dentists either retiring or reducing their working hours in upcoming decade. So, 10 new schools might be still pretty conservative estimate.:oops:

Think about how many dentists graduate every year from every dental school in the country. There are 57 dental schools in the country and the average class is around ~85ish. That's almost 5,000 new dentists a year. Unless dentists are retiring like hot cakes (and most aren't because of the economy), there's always going to be a gigantic influx of dentists. Just about in any metro area, I've seen about 10 dental offices driving a street. In my opinion, there needs to be more dental schools in more rural states (Midwest) and less in saturated ones (CA, TX, AZ).
 
I would have to disagree with you. Unfortunately, the only thing that seems to talk these days is money. If people continue to be willing to pay upwards of 400K for a dental school education, there will continually be new dental schools opening up. The demand is on the part of students wishing to go to dental school, not necessarily the need for dentists.


That is exactly what economics are about: money. If a school can provide a quality education for less than it costs them, they do it. When the equilibrium of people wishing to go to dental school and the seats available meet, no new dental schools will be opened. Like rickbhill said, schools were forced to close in the 80s.

@awesome teeth-why would you put dental schools in rural areas with fewer people to attend them? That would make no sense. There are programs in place to recruit dentists to work in rural areas or to work with underserved populations. However, the majority of people prefer working/living in urban areas.
 
I think this is a bad thing...too many new dental schools are opening up. There are plenty of dentists and the number of existing schools is ample to put out enough dentists.

Think about how many dentists graduate every year from every dental school in the country. There are 57 dental schools in the country and the average class is around ~85ish. That's almost 5 said:
The current population in the U.S (according to the 2010 Census) is 311 million. Our population is growing at 1% per year. That means that next year, there will be an additional 3.1 million people in the U.S.

In 2007, there were 128,000 general dentist in the U.S. If we assumed that 5,000 enter the workforce each year and not a single one retired, that would give us approximately 143,000. If every dentist worked alone, that would give nearly 2,200 patients per dentists, which is a very, very solid patient base.

Additionally, our per capita GDP is increasing, meaning that people have higher levels of disposable income. As people have more money, they spend more on health care and dental care.

The above mentioned factors continue to increase the demand for dentists. Until they change, new schools will continue to open to provide more dentists.
 
@awesome teeth-why would you put dental schools in rural areas with fewer people to attend them? That would make no sense. There are programs in place to recruit dentists to work in rural areas or to work with underserved populations. However, the majority of people prefer working/living in urban areas.

No, I meant you stick private dental schools in the midwest. College grads in the city will come to them since they still want to go to dental school. More moving to the midwest = more chance of staying. It's better then the recruiting system now where you hope/pray that more dentists go out to the farms.
 
No, I meant you stick private dental schools in the midwest. College grads in the city will come to them since they still want to go to dental school. More moving to the midwest = more chance of staying. It's better then the recruiting system now where you hope/pray that more dentists go out to the farms.

This is not true. When I interviewed at Indiana, they specifically said they don't allow out-of-state students to get in-state tuition after their first or second year because they know that the vast majority of students will not stick around after graduation, and in-state tuition is supposed to help students that will remain in Indiana following graduation.

People will move where they want to live or can get the best job. It does not matter where they place the dental school. If they want people to serve in underserved areas, they need to provide them with better incentives.

I do agree with you that wherever a school is built, people will attend.
 
This is not true. When I interviewed at Indiana, they specifically said they don't allow out-of-state students to get in-state tuition after their first or second year because they know that the vast majority of students will not stick around after graduation, and in-state tuition is supposed to help students that will remain in Indiana following graduation.

People will move where they want to live or can get the best job. It does not matter where they place the dental school. If they want people to serve in underserved areas, they need to provide them with better incentives.

I do agree with you that wherever a school is built, people will attend.

Agreed!! i am not going to stay in Omaha Nebraska when I'm done with school!!! But i am more than happy to go to school there.
 
I'm no economic savant or anything but I did take a few econ courses while studying Business Management at Indiana University, so let me offer a rebuttal.

"2,200 patients per dentists"; supposedly, but demand isn't determined by how many people want or need a dentist,instead, it is defined by how many patients are able and willing to pay for the fee's of a dentist.

This is where it gets tricky; tuition is 250,000 on the low end, 500,000 on the high end. Being debt trapped hinders the practitioner to place a fair asking price for his or her fees w/o losing the practice or defaulting on his or her loans. Although there are many openings in rural USA, many people are unemployed or have low paying wages because of the lack of a diverse economic structure (Detroit or any place in the rust belt). The procedures that a dentist chooses in those areas are not implants but extractions or something cost effective for both parties.

So yes, pumping out more dentist will cause practitioners to look for new and improved ways to remain profitable but that does not mean rural USA. It may mean corporate chains coming in who have a larger financial leverage to bargain for lower overhead and can consume certain losses that small dental clinics could not do (Wal-mart, Aspen). These chains have the ability to offer extending credit to patients who can not afford to pay a large lump sum. Also these chains will have a plethora of new minty debt trapped grads to pick from. This is not a new or novel idea but something I see when I go to Walmart or Walgreens where pharmacists now work, where in the past they owned their own businesses, or just down the street next to Starbucks is Aspen dental with a newly minted IU grad working there; pulling teeth.

Pumping out new grads does not help the problem because no one knows what the problem is. We first have to diagnose the true problem which is more abstract than "there is not enough dentist". I know ignorance is tempting ( I don't mean to be facetious) but we have to have some self control and really understand why some areas are lacking dentist and others are not. I myself do not know because I'm not a dentist nor a student, but merely, a business graduate/pre-dent who cannot afford to go to the dentist.

Last point: follow the money. These schools are opening because they can, and there is a lot of money in education. We have been indoctrinated that a degree equates to better quality of life and to some degree(no pun) it does. Deans are racking in millions a year and for good reason.

Best regards to all. I wish you well

P.S., I think the real problem is "greed" or at-least trying to satisfy it; in which we cannot. Nothing new is under the sun the psalmist wrote and this too is true.
The current population in the U.S (according to the 2010 Census) is 311 million. Our population is growing at 1% per year. That means that next year, there will be an additional 3.1 million people in the U.S.

In 2007, there were 128,000 general dentist in the U.S. If we assumed that 5,000 enter the workforce each year and not a single one retired, that would give us approximately 143,000. If every dentist worked alone, that would give nearly 2,200 patients per dentists, which is a very, very solid patient base.

Additionally, our per capita GDP is increasing, meaning that people have higher levels of disposable income. As people have more money, they spend more on health care and dental care.

The above mentioned factors continue to increase the demand for dentists. Until they change, new schools will continue to open to provide more dentists.
 
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I'm sorry, but they need to stop opening up so many new schools...getting kind of ridiculous. I don't want the same problem that Law students have.
 
These schools are largely private for-profit institutions. As long as predents are willing to pay ridiculous amounts of money for that degree, they'll keep popping up.

Personally I believe that there are plenty of ways to make a great living that don't involve getting into half a million dollars of debt before you make a dime.
 
I'm no economic savant or anything but I did take a few econ courses while studying Business Management at Indiana University, so let me offer a rebuttal.

"2,200 patients per dentists"; supposedly, but demand isn't determined by how many people want or need a dentist,instead, it is defined by how many patients are able and willing to pay for the fee's of a dentist.

This is where it gets tricky; tuition is 250,000 on the low end, 500,000 on the high end. Being debt trapped hinders the practitioner to place a fair asking price for his or her fees w/o losing the practice or defaulting on his or her loans. Although there are many openings in rural USA, many people are unemployed or have low paying wages because of the lack of a diverse economic structure (Detroit or any place in the rust belt). The procedures that a dentist chooses in those areas are not implants but extractions or something cost effective for both parties.

So yes, pumping out more dentist will cause practitioners to look for new and improved ways to remain profitable but that does not mean rural USA. It may mean corporate chains coming in who have a larger financial leverage to bargain for lower overhead and can consume certain losses that small dental clinics could not do (Wal-mart, Aspen). These chains have the ability to offer extending credit to patients who can not afford to pay a large lump sum. Also these chains will have a plethora of new minty debt trapped grads to pick from. This is not a new or novel idea but something I see when I go to Walmart or Walgreens where pharmacists now work, where in the past they owned their own businesses, or just down the street next to Starbucks is Aspen dental with a newly minted IU grad working there; pulling teeth.

Pumping out new grads does not help the problem because no one knows what the problem is. We first have to diagnose the true problem which is more abstract than "there is not enough dentist". I know ignorance is tempting ( I don't mean to be facetious) but we have to have some self control and really understand why some areas are lacking dentist and others are not. I myself do not know because I'm not a dentist nor a student, but merely, a business graduate/pre-dent who cannot afford to go to the dentist.

Last point: follow the money. These schools are opening because they can, and there is a lot of money in education. We have been indoctrinated that a degree equates to better quality of life and to some degree(no pun) it does. Deans are racking in millions a year and for good reason.

Best regards to all. I wish you well

P.S., I think the real problem is "greed" or at-least trying to satisfy it; in which we cannot. Nothing new is under the sun the psalmist wrote and this too is true.

Like you said, demand is determined by the amount of people who are willing and able to pay for dental care. The numbers are just that: numbers. The mean retirement rate and age were discussed, and everything else was approximated. 1,500 patients would be a great patient base as well if you want to get technical. I live in an area that is one of the most saturated in the country with dentists. They have about 900 patients/dentist. All of them work Mon-Thurs, pay their loans, have nice houses, etc.

When you talk about a "fair price" and "greed," I know you are definitely not an economics person. A price is fair if people are willing to pay for it. If procedure costs X from dentist A and costs Y from dentists B, as long as people pay them, they are "fair." The cost of dental care rises according to what people are willing to pay for it. As people have higher incomes, they are willing to pay more, so they do. Dentists then adjust their prices to meet that demand.

As far as "greed" goes: "greed," the way you are using it, is the idea that people are going to make the highest profit that they can from their services. If a business (which is what all private dental schools are) doesn't try to maximize profit, they go out of business (or the government buys them).

If you want "fair prices" and don't want "greed," move to a country where the dental and health care is socialized. It's awesome, let me tell you what you'll get: extremely high tax rates, long wait lines, and poor-quality care. Plus, if you're a dentist or physician, people will tell you what price you can charge for your services. But at least they won't charge unfair prices and be greedy.
 
Osity - Your comments struck me as naive and possibly ignorant. In the real world there is such a thing as greed - you dont have to look far to find it. I suggest starting with the early 1900's american history and going forward.

What the poster was talking about was that outside interests will destroy a profession (dentistry) because of they have little interest in the long term effects of their diploma mills.

Make profit, dont add value, move on... that is our economy now.
 
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Osity - Your comments struck me as naive and possibly ignorant. In the real world there is such a thing as greed - you dont have to look far to find it. I suggest starting with the early 1900's american history and going forward.

What the poster was talking about was that outside interests will destroy a profession (dentistry) because of they have little interest in the long term effects of their diploma mills.

Make profit, dont add value, move on... that is our economy now.

Which part was ignorant or naive? The number one motivator of people is money-which is good or bad, depending on your perspective. If you want to strictly work with underserved people, there are lots of places to work and programs to help you as a dentist.

There are always outside interests. I am interested in dentistry because it is rewarding to provide the different services that a dentist can provide. I am also interested in dentistry because you have a limitless potential, I can provide a comfortable life for my family, and have time to do other things that I enjoy.

I don't know if you can call schools 'diploma mills'. To graduate students, they have to be certified by CODA, so they can't just pop up anywhere and hope they make it. They are thoroughly inspected and must produce the same quality dentists that any other school would produce. At eventually, they have to take the boards, so if they're not up to par, it will be pretty obvious.

Lastly, competition inspires innovation. When there is more competition, there is pressure on those providing a service to reduce prices or provide a higher quality service. It is good for us as providers because we will continue to get better at what we are doing and find new ways to treat patients. It is also good for patients because they will see prices decrease.

And I'm not implying that the greed where people embezzle money or do illegal things is good, but the 'greed' that makes people work hard to make money (honestly) is good.
 
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Like you said, demand is determined by the amount of people who are willing and able to pay for dental care. The numbers are just that: numbers. The mean retirement rate and age were discussed, and everything else was approximated. 1,500 patients would be a great patient base as well if you want to get technical. I live in an area that is one of the most saturated in the country with dentists. They have about 900 patients/dentist. All of them work Mon-Thurs, pay their loans, have nice houses, etc.

When you talk about a "fair price" and "greed," I know you are definitely not an economics person. A price is fair if people are willing to pay for it. If procedure costs X from dentist A and costs Y from dentists B, as long as people pay them, they are "fair." The cost of dental care rises according to what people are willing to pay for it. As people have higher incomes, they are willing to pay more, so they do. Dentists then adjust their prices to meet that demand.

As far as "greed" goes: "greed," the way you are using it, is the idea that people are going to make the highest profit that they can from their services. If a business (which is what all private dental schools are) doesn't try to maximize profit, they go out of business (or the government buys them).

If you want "fair prices" and don't want "greed," move to a country where the dental and health care is socialized. It's awesome, let me tell you what you'll get: extremely high tax rates, long wait lines, and poor-quality care. Plus, if you're a dentist or physician, people will tell you what price you can charge for your services. But at least they won't charge unfair prices and be greedy.

Not being technical but using my sense--that in which we have in common; the sense, that is. I don't know your situation nor do I know where you live so I can't comment on those particulars. The market in Indiana or rural Indiana is somewhat different but I digress.

For there to be a demand there but first be "value" which means the practitioner will have to create "value" in his or her services that outweighs the cost associated with the purchase (what are these cost? Well I'm obviously not an economics major like yourself so I will leave it up to you). There are alot of people in rural USA who do not see any value in dental care unless the pain associate with mass decay changes that. But then again, you can be poor and be rich at the same time or rich and be poor. So even if I have a half million to blow does not mean I will go to the dentist if I don't see any value in it (Woopie Golberg).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLDL8NhNxWA

As far as greed goes--I'm not talking about money only but "greed" which manifest itself as the fear of not having enough. It goes a-lot deeper than gold and silver. It has never been about the money, we all need money but when you lack the self control to know "when enough is enough" then it is crippling. All the great sages know what I speak of young man.

I really don't want to get into socialist vs capitalist philosophical battle. It really means nothing to me; there are both just ideas made by men and you can either subscribe to one school of thought or the other or simply just create your own. Some work and some don't. But nonetheless, I wish you good luck in your endeavors...I really do.

Cheers!
 
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Osity - Your comments struck me as naive and possibly ignorant. In the real world there is such a thing as greed - you don't have to look far to find it. I suggest starting with the early 1900's American history and going forward.

What the poster was talking about was that outside interests will destroy a profession (dentistry) because of they have little interest in the long term effects of their diploma mills.

Make profit, don't add value, move on... that is our economy now.

I don't think his comments were naive or ignorant but I think I know what you mean yappy. Your right about looking with a subcutaneous view...you know, deeper.

I think we all can learn something today which is "we really don't know much"

Cheers!

"I know that I don't know" Some old guy from Athens or something.
 
Not being technical but using my sense--that in which we have in common; the sense, that is. I don't know your situation nor do I know where you live so I can't comment on those particulars. The market in Indiana or rural Indiana is somewhat different but I digress.

For there to be a demand there but first be "value" which means the practitioner will have to create "value" in his or her services that outweighs the cost associated with the purchase (what are these cost? Well I'm obviously not an economics major like yourself so I will leave it up to you). There are alot of people in rural USA who do not see any value in dental care unless the pain associate with mass decay changes that. But then again, you can be poor and be rich at the same time or rich and be poor. So even if I have a half million to blow does not mean I will go to the dentist if I don't see any value in it (Woopie Golberg).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLDL8NhNxWA

As far as greed goes--I'm not talking about money only but "greed" which manifest itself as the fear of not having enough. It goes a-lot deeper than gold and silver. It has never been about the money, we all need money but when you lack the self control to know "when enough is enough" then it is crippling. All the great sages know what I speak of young man.

I really don't want to get into socialist vs capitalist philosophical battle. It really means nothing to me; there are both just ideas made by men and you can either subscribe to one school of thought or the other or simply just create your own. Some work and some don't. But nonetheless, I wish you good luck in your endeavors...I really do.

Cheers!

You definitely make some good points. The value is greater for the more affluent people as far as cosmetics/implant dentistry go, and of course, like you mentioned, there is definitely value when people have a toothache that is killing them.

As far as capitalism vs. socialism-you're right again-that's a whole other discussion.

You seem to have a good grasp of things, and that is what will make you successful. While we both have different points of view, we can go with them. That's an aspect of dentistry and our country is awesome-we can choose what we want to do and how we go about it.

Good luck to you too!
 
Which part was ignorant or naive? The number one motivator of people is money-which is good or bad, depending on your perspective. If you want to strictly work with underserved people, there are lots of places to work and programs to help you as a dentist.

There are always outside interests. I am interested in dentistry because it is rewarding to provide the different services that a dentist can provide. I am also interested in dentistry because you have a limitless potential, I can provide a comfortable life for my family, and have time to do other things that I enjoy.

I don't know if you can call schools 'diploma mills'. To graduate students, they have to be certified by CODA, so they can't just pop up anywhere and hope they make it. They are thoroughly inspected and must produce the same quality dentists that any other school would produce. At eventually, they have to take the boards, so if they're not up to par, it will be pretty obvious.

Lastly, competition inspires innovation. When there is more competition, there is pressure on those providing a service to reduce prices or provide a higher quality service. It is good for us as providers because we will continue to get better at what we are doing and find new ways to treat patients. It is also good for patients because they will see prices decrease.

And I'm not implying that the greed where people embezzle money or do illegal things is good, but the 'greed' that makes people work hard to make money (honestly) is good.

I suspect your attitude will change slightly as you start school and see those thousands of dollars in loans add up to tens of thousands of dollars and ultimately hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Competition is great but we work hard and invest a lot of time and money into this profession. Dentistry can only get so cheap before you start losing money or providing lower quality service. If you didn't know, dental practices have a massive overhead. The last thing I want to do is graduate a few hundred thousand dollars in debt, start up a practice only to be nickled and dimed by the guy down the street, and struggle to turn a profit of my own.

I love innovation but what we are trained to do is valuable and after investing what we have into the profession we deserve to be compensated accordingly.
 
I suspect your attitude will change slightly as you start school and see those thousands of dollars in loans add up to tens of thousands of dollars and ultimately hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Competition is great but we work hard and invest a lot of time and money into this profession. Dentistry can only get so cheap before you start losing money or providing lower quality service. If you didn't know, dental practices have a massive overhead. The last thing I want to do is graduate a few hundred thousand dollars in debt, start up a practice only to be nickled and dimed by the guy down the street, and struggle to turn a profit of my own.

I love innovation but what we are trained to do is valuable and after investing what we have into the profession we deserve to be compensated accordingly.


I completely agree with you, we should definitely get paid for what we are trained to do.

I know how expensive it is, and I know that practices definitely have an overhead (I wouldn't say massive, but that depends on the particular practice and how it's set up).

My point is that even though there will be more schools opening, it shouldn't be a huge cause for alarm. Demand for dentistry is still rising, and if you want less competition, you just go to a different area, or provide a service that is superior to what another dental office provides.

By the way, which school are you at?
 
You definitely make some good points. The value is greater for the more affluent people as far as cosmetics/implant dentistry go, and of course, like you mentioned, there is definitely value when people have a toothache that is killing them.

As far as capitalism vs. socialism-you're right again-that's a whole other discussion.

You seem to have a good grasp of things, and that is what will make you successful. While we both have different points of view, we can go with them. That's an aspect of dentistry and our country is awesome-we can choose what we want to do and how we go about it.

Good luck to you too!

This too is true..I wish the best for you.
 
I completely agree with you, we should definitely get paid for what we are trained to do.

I know how expensive it is, and I know that practices definitely have an overhead (I wouldn't say massive, but that depends on the particular practice and how it's set up).

My point is that even though there will be more schools opening, it shouldn't be a huge cause for alarm. Demand for dentistry is still rising, and if you want less competition, you just go to a different area, or provide a service that is superior to what another dental office provides.

By the way, which school are you at?

I would say 60 - 70% overhead is massive but I guess that's in the eye of the beholder.

I'm not sure new school openings should be HUGE cause for alarm but it should be at the forefront of discussions especially as more and more open. There's got to be a point at which the demand stops rising right? How many new schools and new grads do we need to produce before we realize we've pumped too many out?

All I know is that I've got two brothers that are doing quite well right now with just bachelors degrees in business. NO student loan debt. Luckily I go to a cheap state dental school (Baylor by the way) because honestly, I don't think going to some of these expensive private schools is worth it anymore.
 
I would say 60 - 70% overhead is massive but I guess that's in the eye of the beholder.

I'm not sure new school openings should be HUGE cause for alarm but it should be at the forefront of discussions especially as more and more open. There's got to be a point at which the demand stops rising right? How many new schools and new grads do we need to produce before we realize we've pumped too many out?

All I know is that I've got two brothers that are doing quite well right now with just bachelors degrees in business. NO student loan debt. Luckily I go to a cheap state dental school (Baylor by the way) because honestly, I don't think going to some of these expensive private schools is worth it anymore.

I don't know any dentist that is at 60-70% overhead, that seems just a little bit high.

I will have a bachelor's degree in business in April. While students with bachelor's degrees can do very well, you have to look at the earnings potential. They graduate without any debt and make $50k as a starting salary. We graduate with $250k (yours is definitely cheaper, I wish I was a TX res), but make $120k as a starting salary. It may come out to be the same in the long run, but I think as a dentist, we have a more secure outlook as far as job security.

In the end, you just have to pick the career that interests you the most. Dentistry is sweet (for me) because I get to provide dental care and run a business, and both aspects are awesome for me.
 
I don't know any dentist that is at 60-70% overhead, that seems just a little bit high.

I will have a bachelor's degree in business in April. While students with bachelor's degrees can do very well, you have to look at the earnings potential. They graduate without any debt and make $50k as a starting salary. We graduate with $250k (yours is definitely cheaper, I wish I was a TX res), but make $120k as a starting salary. It may come out to be the same in the long run, but I think as a dentist, we have a more secure outlook as far as job security.

In the end, you just have to pick the career that interests you the most. Dentistry is sweet (for me) because I get to provide dental care and run a business, and both aspects are awesome for me.

I agree with Osity on this one, it may just pan out to be equal in the end. I think that being able to contribute to the healing arts is a privilege whether it be dentistry or medicine. So that is a plus. The debt load is cubersome though and it really should be checked by the ADA; if they have any say in those matters.
 
I don't know any dentist that is at 60-70% overhead, that seems just a little bit high.

I will have a bachelor's degree in business in April. While students with bachelor's degrees can do very well, you have to look at the earnings potential. They graduate without any debt and make $50k as a starting salary. We graduate with $250k (yours is definitely cheaper, I wish I was a TX res), but make $120k as a starting salary. It may come out to be the same in the long run, but I think as a dentist, we have a more secure outlook as far as job security.

In the end, you just have to pick the career that interests you the most. Dentistry is sweet (for me) because I get to provide dental care and run a business, and both aspects are awesome for me.

Quick search found a survey that quoted average overhead at 61%. This number was also what the dentist that I shadowed told me. You'll see firsthand when you start school that there is a ton of equipment, supplies, etc that go into dentistry and the cost associated with it. I heard a dentist the other day say that it costs him $30 just to prep a chair before even seeing the patient. Think about the hygienists and assistants that you pay. Again, they don't work for cheap. With that said, 40% of 1 million is a lot of money but it's also not easy to build/buy/run a 1 million dollar practice.

I guess my point is demand is rising now but a lot of that is due to fixing/replacing old restorations on baby boomers that didn't have fluoride. What do you think will happen when those baby boomer pass away and we start treating more people that grew up with fluoride and have less dental problems? How do these new grads play into that?

I don't have the answers. I believe that dentistry will remain strong but my opinion is that opening a lot of new schools seems somewhat shortsighted.
 
Quick search found a survey that quoted average overhead at 61%. This number was also what the dentist that I shadowed told me. You'll see firsthand when you start school that there is a ton of equipment, supplies, etc that go into dentistry and the cost associated with it. I heard a dentist the other day say that it costs him $30 just to prep a chair before even seeing the patient. Think about the hygienists and assistants that you pay. Again, they don't work for cheap. With that said, 40% of 1 million is a lot of money but it's also not easy to build/buy/run a 1 million dollar practice.

I guess my point is demand is rising now but a lot of that is due to fixing/replacing old restorations on baby boomers that didn't have fluoride. What do you think will happen when those baby boomer pass away and we start treating more people that grew up with fluoride and have less dental problems? How do these new grads play into that?

I don't have the answers. I believe that dentistry will remain strong but my opinion is that opening a lot of new schools seems somewhat shortsighted.

I agree that dentistry will remain strong, because even if people grow up with fluoride, that doesn't necessarily mean that they have taken proper care of their teeth, plus there will always be emergency situations to take care of. When the baby boomers are done, there will be less people, but as income rises, demand will increase, so dentistry will always be needed.

The 60% overhead could definitely be the average. Three dentists I shadowed were all around 40% though...but I'm sure it varies regionally. I know there's a ton of equipment involved and that it's very expensive. There's a ton I have to learn about the whole process, but fortunately I still have a while to learn and hopefully find ways to limit some of that overhead.
 
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I agree that dentistry will remain strong, because even if people grow up with fluoride, that doesn't necessarily mean that they have taken proper care of their teeth, plus there will always be emergency situations to take care of. When the baby boomers are done, there will be less people, but as income rises, demand will increase, so dentistry will always be needed.

The 60% overhead could definitely be the average. Three dentists I shadowed were all around 40% though...but I'm sure it varies regionally. I know there's a ton of equipment involved and that it's very expensive. There's a ton I have to learn about the whole process, but fortunately I still have a while to learn and hopefully find ways to limit some of that overhead.

I really doubt incomes will rise for most of Americans.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_thelo...but-unequal-charts-show-growing-rich-poor-gap

If you notice the power shifts that have been occurring around the world you can see an ever so expanding rise in incomes in developing nations while incomes in the U.S. have been static. Check out "The Post-American World" by Fareed Zakaria. I haven't read it personally but I heard that it is a good book on geo-politics so take my opinion with a grain of salt.

I agree, dentistry will always be need but I think that many of whom who need it will be priced out of the market. My hope is, is that income will rise and that this country can flourish again and I'm generally an optimistic person but I sincerely think we can achieve that.

I haven't heard overhead being 40% but I haven't spoke to that many dentist so my knowledge is weak on that topic. I generally hear 65% from the few doctors I spoke to. I think the doctors who are at 40% are doing a good job.

Osity, do you plan to purse an M.B.A.? I really enjoyed studying business myself, and I think that it will be a nice add on to our D.D.S. degree.

Cheers!
 
I really doubt incomes will rise for most of Americans.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_thelo...but-unequal-charts-show-growing-rich-poor-gap

If you notice the power shifts that have been occurring around the world you can see an ever so expanding rise in incomes in developing nations while incomes in the U.S. have been static. Check out "The Post-American World" by Fareed Zakaria. I haven't read it personally but I heard that it is a good book on geo-politics so take my opinion with a grain of salt.

I agree, dentistry will always be need but I think that many of whom who need it will be priced out of the market. My hope is, is that income will rise and that this country can flourish again and I'm generally an optimistic person but I sincerely think we can achieve that.

I haven't heard overhead being 40% but I haven't spoke to that many dentist so my knowledge is weak on that topic. I generally hear 65% from the few doctors I spoke to. I think the doctors who are at 40% are doing a good job.

Osity, do you plan to purse an M.B.A.? I really enjoyed studying business myself, and I think that it will be a nice add on to our D.D.S. degree.

Cheers!


I would love to pursue an MBA Degree. I think that would be feasible after d-school. It would definitely help us as we work to build our practices.
 
Same here, I took a gap year between undergrad and graduate school. I wished I had taken that time to purse an M.B.A. but then again, taking time off and just resting was a good thing as well. I may try to purse the M.B.A. during 3rd, or 4th year or simply just pursue it after my D.D.S. Haven't made up my mind. During undergrad, did you focus your business degree in a certain area? Was it economics and finance?
 
Great! Just what we need...more dentists...
 
Great! Just what we need...more dentists...

Yeah, either that or mid-levels. I wouldn't be surprised if 3 to 4 more dental schools opened up in the next few years. It's just crazy because if 4 or 5 medical schools opened up there wouldn't be any problem really. There seems to be not enough of MD's around.
 
I'm thinking the demand for dental school is inelastic, and the demand for dental services is elastic. I think herein lies some of the problem.
 
GOD THIS IS SOO ANNOYINGGGG ANOTHER DENTAL SHCOOL...THERE ARE ENOUGGH DENTISTS

oh and those of u guys who think being an MBA will HELP U WITH UR PRACTICE..U ARE DUMB

'NUFF SAID
 
GOD THIS IS SOO ANNOYINGGGG ANOTHER DENTAL SHCOOL...THERE ARE ENOUGGH DENTISTS

oh and those of u guys who think being an MBA will HELP U WITH UR PRACTICE..U ARE DUMB

'NUFF SAID

This is a really intelligent and well thought out post. You're spelling is outstanding. Have you even been accepted to a community college?

Good luck on getting your high school diploma. After you do that, go ahead and post on here.
 
Same here, I took a gap year between undergrad and graduate school. I wished I had taken that time to purse an M.B.A. but then again, taking time off and just resting was a good thing as well. I may try to purse the M.B.A. during 3rd, or 4th year or simply just pursue it after my D.D.S. Haven't made up my mind. During undergrad, did you focus your business degree in a certain area? Was it economics and finance?

Yep, Economics with an emphasis in Finance and Chem minor. Oh, and 'we r dumb' for wanting to get more education in business. Apparently more business training when running a business is not advantageous.

'Nuff said hahaha!
 
Yep, Economics with an emphasis in Finance and Chem minor. Oh, and 'we r dumb' for wanting to get more education in business. Apparently more business training when running a business is not advantageous.

'Nuff said hahaha!


lol buddy you seriously are an idiot if you think that an econ major will help you run a dental business..and many people on this forum agree that it is useless..i love biz majors like you who think they are so damn great with their business degree lol

and about the spelling..do you seriously have no social life..have you gotten no texts from people? people say enoughhh to add emphasis, you socially awkward fool

and my gpa is a lot higher than yours and i go to a much more competitive school than you buddy...judging from your DAT scores you dont seem too intelligent, so I wont waste my time arguing with an idiot
 
and let the pissing contest begin

i swear, i feel like every thread lately finds its way into a personal feud
 
lol buddy you seriously are an idiot if you think that an econ major will help you run a dental business..and many people on this forum agree that it is useless..i love biz majors like you who think they are so damn great with their business degree lol

and about the spelling..do you seriously have no social life..have you gotten no texts from people? people say enoughhh to add emphasis, you socially awkward fool

and my gpa is a lot higher than yours and i go to a much more competitive school than you buddy...judging from your DAT scores you dont seem too intelligent, so I wont waste my time arguing with an idiot

Why are you even posting on here? If you go to such a superior school with a higher GPA and have a better DAT, where have you been accepted?

A dental practice is a business. You'll learn all about supply and demand IF you get there. You might even learn about finance and how money works. People with business degrees don't think they're better than anyone else. Don't forget, you are the one that came on here saying people getting business degrees are dumb. And if you would, please explain how a bio/chem degree makes you a better dentist than any other major. You can be an awesome dentist regardless of your undergrad degree. I haven't ever heard a dentist say he wished he had less business training when he got into the world world.

Good luck at your superior school.
 
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