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New DO exam

Discussion in 'Medical Students - DO' started by M00se, Feb 11, 2001.

  1. M00se

    M00se Member

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    I was wondering about how you all feel about the AOA having a new exam fro the comlex step 2. In 2004 all DO grads will be required to go to a single location somewhere in the US to take a hands on exam like the Canadian schools do. Are you prepared to pay the $1000 for the test and fly to this location for the test? They are voting on the proposals and I just wondered what you thought.
     
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  3. rosebud

    rosebud Member

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    I really dont see what we are supposed to gain from that. Personally, I HATE the idea.
     
  4. Eric714

    Eric714 Senior Member
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    That sounds wack....
     
  5. Eric714

    Eric714 Senior Member
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    I'm only a first year student..... but isn't the step 2 an oral exam anyway? so what would be the difference?
     
  6. ewagner

    ewagner Senior Member

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    Once again, it shows the AOA in their infinite wisdom, creating another stumbling block for Osteopathic Physicians-to-be.
    It is a HORRIBLE idea, and personally sounds like the work of "old timers" worried that DO's just don't have the "manual skills" of days gone by. Well, that may be, but I don't think a DO in 1965 had to worry about virology and the mechanisms of infectious disease like we do today. The COMLEX and the USMLE have for pharmacology and microbiology than ever before...and personally that doesn't leave alot of time to practice "Still's Technique" for the first rib!

    Eric,
    As a MSIII I can assure you that the step 1,2 and 3 currently have NO oral components. Consistant with NBOME and AOA policy, it is still a "paper and pencil" exam unlike the USMLE and many allied health exams which are taken on computer.
     
  7. Cottontop

    Cottontop Member

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    I am a member of the 2004 class and I have not heard of such an exam. If it does indeed come to fruition it will be just another square to fill in as with the numerous ones we have already encountered. I can assure that once my clinical rotations begin and these "didactic" and OMM "labs" are complete, my days of "manipulation" are over. I wonder if they (AOA) are as concerned with whether or not we can detect lethal arrthymias, function as a team during a code, or perform surgical procedures with skill in order to save and/or heal our patients. Is the Complex and USMLE not enough to prove our "worthiness"?

    It is just another reason to laugh at the ridiculous proposals and assumptions made by the AOA. I pay my dues (as a good student should) but when this is all done and said, the AOA will never recieve another penny or one ounce of my support.

    I could go on and on, but my mother once told me, if you don't have anything good to say---say nothing (or pay nothing) at all.
     
  8. Liljoe2002

    Liljoe2002 Member

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    Cottontop,

    Although your anger is well justified at the AOA, keep in mind that they do lobby for us in D.C.: with regards to DO practice rights and other pertaining issues. As much as I hate to say this, I think it's important for all DO's to contribute financially to the AOA-hey it's in our best interest. From what I have heard from other doctors there is "new blood" in the AOA who have better understanding of current issues.

    Liljoe
     
  9. UHS03

    UHS03 Senior Member

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    When that "new blood" takes over the leadership, maybe I'll start contributing voluntarily. Until then, the AMA lobby represents the issues most important to me just fine. I'm sick and tired of the AOA constantly making things more difficult by putting up artificial boundaries and spewing propaganda in an attempt to segregate DO's from our colleagues....ironic to me that they call it the "unity" campaign.
     
  10. rhillstr

    rhillstr Senior Member

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    Bout time we had a real issue to talk about.
    First of all, if the AOA keeps it's promise and opens up osteopathic residencies, especially in western states, to ensure one spot per grad (right now that is not the case!) then I will feel some faith in the AOA.
    That proposal sounds ridiculous. Why force students (read: low funds) to travel from all over the US to one spot? A hands on practical seems like a good plan, but what does it replace? Sounds sketchy at best...
     
  11. ewagner

    ewagner Senior Member

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    Well, if the AOA would simply approve internships and residency spots in ACGME hospitals then there would be enough internships available nationwide for DO's.
    Instead they start programs in Hogsjaw, KY where there have NEVER been teaching programs! Is that the kind of teaching programs we deserve?
    And the AOA fighting for the rights of DO's in DC? Uhhh, I thought they spent their entire budget on magazine adds in USA Today or Oprah's magazine!
    The internet does more for the visability of DO's than the AOA EVER WILL!


    [This message has been edited by ewagner (edited 02-13-2001).]
     
  12. ewagner

    ewagner Senior Member

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    LilJoe, I know where you live! HA
     
  13. ADRIANSHOE

    ADRIANSHOE Senior Member

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    HEY! i have been to HOGJAW hospital and it is a fantastic facility. The castration pens are cleaned daily with bleach, the physicians always take off their hipwaders and fertilization gloves before working on patients. Most of thermometers have mercury in them and the air conditioning is provided by flunkies who flow on pinwheels to provide ventilation...the newest grant allows for the purchase of beanies for the rotating nurse, so that not only can you recognize them but additional surgical airflow enhancement is attained...HOW DARE YOU IMPUGN THIS SITE.

    in all fairness: while i agree that it is wrong to give money to an organization which is fighting so hard against effiecient and common sense administration, it is imperative that we all join this organization IF we feel it is currently acting inappropriately...CHANGE comes from within, and waiting for people make changes isnt going to happen unless WE who feel these changes need to be made actually participate. WE are the people WE are waiting to take over, so WE need to join, get involved, encourgage communication and coalition and eventually move this organization out of its stance of separate unaprecciated and unequal and into what ever stance we feel is appropriate.
     
  14. ADRIANSHOE

    ADRIANSHOE Senior Member

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    by the way, hey ewag, hows clinicals?

    (its only a question, no hidden agenda)
     
  15. Rusty

    Rusty Member

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    The AOA has made slow progress on their pilot project to begin approving more ACGME transitional year programs as AOA-approved traditional internships for the 2001 match. I believe that applicants for these spots may have to apply through the NRMP. Here is a current listing of ACGME transitional year programs which the AOA has approved(available from AOA Opportnunities database):

    Baystate Med Ctr Transitional Year, Springfield, MA
    Deaconess Medical Center-Transitional Year, Spokane, WA
    Griffin Hospital Transitional Year - Internship Training, Derby, CT
    Kern Medical Center - Transitional Year, Bakersfield, CA
    Marshall Univ School of Med Transitional Year, Huntington, WV
    St Luke's Medical Center - Transitional Year, Milwaukee, WI
    St Vincent's Medical Center - Transitional Year, Bridgeport, CT

    I hope that the AOA is able to continue to expand their efforts so that next year's match has more to offer.

    As far as changes to the board exam, the president of the NBOME spoke at my school last year. He told us that a goal of the NBOME was to create computerized versions of the COMLEX exams (eliminating the paper and pencil administrations) within 5 years and to develop a computerized module for Level 3 which would involve a clinical skills assessment.

    I think that the NBOME having a clinical exam where all those taking the COMLEX would have to travel to a single city would require a mammoth amount of money and effort which would be better used in creating a shorter, more sophisticated, computerized exam.
     
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  17. ewagner

    ewagner Senior Member

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    Shoe, Clinicals seem to be fine...currently on labor and delivery in St. Louis. Typical inner city stuff. Good experience St. Louis U. students and learning good skills.
    e
     
  18. ADRIANSHOE

    ADRIANSHOE Senior Member

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    ob/gyn...nothing will turn you off of vanilla pudding faster!
     
  19. William

    William Junior Member

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    In Fact:

    BOTH the NBME/USMLE and the NBOME/COMLEX have scheduled a new "hands-on" exam to be added to the process sometime in the next few years.
    The Canadians already do this.
    This is NOT just something bad to do to DO students, it is another measure of validity of testing competence
     
  20. adismo

    adismo covered in moon dust

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    Moose,

    Is there a website that details this ridiculous pilgrimage to be. I want to know were to direct my complaints. The idea is a mockery of ost med students everywhere. Do they want us to stay in the same hotel and eat porridge and collard greens too?

    Heaven forbid that we shed the quack image. Lets shoot ourselves in the proverbial foot once again, and then go around crying why oh why are we being laughed out of medical institutions everywhere?!!

    Adrianshoe, your insights are refreshing and glib at the same time. You go! (no hidden agenda)

    [This message has been edited by adismo (edited 02-13-2001).]
     
  21. M00se

    M00se Member

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    Sorry, but no. The AOA has this in committee, which the student reps get one vote on.
     
  22. EZEK

    EZEK Member

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    COMLEX Physical Exam is NOT scheduled to be done at one site only. It will be done at several locations. Competency testing will soon be required by the USMLE. At the Philadephia College of Osteopathic Medicine was the site for the first set of validation testing. As for the AOA approving hospitals in Kentucky, there are opening training sites for the students of the Pikeville College of Osteopathic Medicine, particularly for those doctors who want to
     
  23. ryanpj

    ryanpj Senior Member

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    no the new addition to Comlex 1 will probably be instated in 2002 or 03. It has been tested at various site including PCOM and they will be conducting a study at DMU which I will either have to suffer through or have the opportunity.
     
  24. doc2003

    doc2003 Junior Member

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    The new exam begins for the class graduating in 2004. I know this because my class (2003) was very happy it was recently changed to NOT include us.
     
  25. Pikevillemedstudent

    Pikevillemedstudent Bengals Fan

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    The AOA did not start these programs. PCSOM and the different hospitals started these programs. They only ask for accreditation from the AOA. Residencies are government funded not AOA funded. These programs were created to train doctors who want to serve the area of Eastern Kentucky. I think they will do an excellent job at that. I am sorry you don't like that idea. I think it is a good one. BTW, the AOA cannot just approve any internship at any hospital. The hospital MUST seek accreditation from them.
     
  26. drusso

    Physician Moderator Emeritus Lifetime Donor Classifieds Approved

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    Actually, this one of the few areas that NBOME is taking the lead--observed clinical skills examinations (OCSE pronounced "Osk-ee"). Both the COMLEX and the USMLE will phase in practical hands-on portions to each exam. For step I it might be something simple like patient interviewing or basic physical exam skills; then step II will focus more Head to Toe physical exams, interpretting simple rhythm strips, etc. For step three there could very well be more advanced situations like running codes. And, yes, the plan is to include a uniquely osteopathic component to each step of the osteopathic boards--simple palpation on step I; technique demonstration on step II; etc. All of these things are only in the very preliminary stages though.
     
  27. ewagner

    ewagner Senior Member

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    Pikesvilleguy,

    You see, I wasn't poking fun at KY, but rather the interesting view of the world the AOA has! I think, if they AOA closed their eyes and wished upon a star, they could get off their asses and simply ATTEMPT to create joint ACGME and AOA internships. I think perhaps that may take less effort than paying big bucks to some ad-agency for the "My doctor is a DO..." ads in Oprah's magazine. Hmmmmmmmm
     
  28. William

    William Junior Member

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    It is NOT the AOA's job to create intenships, that is the hospitals' jobs and the OPTI's (i.e. YOUR school).

    If your school is pumping out more students that there are spots, ask THEM why !
     

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