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Obviously, not nearly as a big of a threat in the face of high tuition, saturation, dental therapists and insurance reimbursements.. what is everyone's thoughts on this? Could OMFS/perio procedures be taken overseas along with cardiac and neurosurgery?

Don't mean to spell doom and gloom. I'm just wondering thoughts on this, especially for non-white Americans, the idea of going home to a trusted family doctor for considerably cheaper may spell trouble for dental professionals.

http://www.newsday.com/business/press-releases/medical-tourism-market-global-industry-analysis-size-share-growth-trends-and-forecast-2013-2019-1.6515047
 

Mr. Thirsty

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Read dental town for a while and you will find that many of these individuals end up with major problems after going overseas to get implants, veneers etc. The quality of care in a lot of these places sucks, and they usually end up doing more damage than good. The result is a developed country dentist having to fix what was done and the patient ends up spending the money that they should've spent in the first place...The quality of care is not the same. Economically this is not a problem for dentists....the problem is that the patient is unaware of the differences in the quality of care and ethics between nations when it comes to dentistry. I can understand if someone who lacks health insurance and needs heart surgery decides to do one of these tours. But when it comes to cosmetics and certain procedures in dentistry, I think you really get what you pay for.
 
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sgv

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Some people who regularly visit countries like India for family visits, often get their dental procedures done there as well...
Radiology is screwed with more hospitals outsourcing radiograph interpretations to India, which is all made possible with today's telecommunication technology. I read that a well known radiology residency closed as a result. Could it be ironic that technological advancements, that once created the field of radiology, is now destroying it as well?

I doubt dental procedures are popular in these relatively poor countries and I doubt there is much cultural value in pretty teeth so I think dentists over there don't have the same level of experience as the family and cosmetic dentists here. There's no better place for a dentist to be than in the U.S. where everyone is obsessed with straight, white teeth.

This is a much smaller issue than the one about student debt, piss poor distribution of dentists, midlevels, chains, biased public perception of all dentists based on a few bad apples, and recession.
 
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DrBowtie

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Some people who regularly visit countries like India for family visits, often get their dental procedures done there as well...
Radiology is screwed with more hospitals outsourcing radiograph interpretations to India, which is all made possible with today's telecommunication technology. I read that a well known radiology residency closed as a result. Could it be ironic that technological advancements, that once created the field of radiology, is now destroying it as well?

I doubt dental procedures are popular in these relatively poor countries and I doubt there is much cultural value in pretty teeth so I think dentists over there don't have the same level of experience as the family and cosmetic dentists here. There's no better place for a dentist to be than in the U.S. where everyone is obsessed with straight, white teeth.

This is a much smaller issue than the one about student debt, piss poor distribution of dentists, midlevels, chains, biased public perception of all dentists based on a few bad apples, and recession.
You are wrong about radiology outsourcing. Insurers/Medicaid/Medicare require final interpretations to be done on US soil.

US teleradiology firms are the threat and are taking contracts and displacing on site groups .
 

sgv

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You are wrong about radiology outsourcing. Insurers/Medicaid/Medicare require final interpretations to be done on US soil.

US teleradiology firms are the threat and are taking contracts and displacing on site groups .
Wow, so images get looked at twice? How could this possibly be cost saving?
 

DrBowtie

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Wow, so images get looked at twice? How could this possibly be cost saving?
There was a very short period of time that overnight prelim reads were done by overseas because there was enough of a margin to pay them and then read it in the morning.

Imaging cuts have essentially killed that practice. Now it's US based tele radiology firms that provide final reads overnight.
 
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Some people who regularly visit countries like India for family visits, often get their dental procedures done there as well...
Radiology is screwed with more hospitals outsourcing radiograph interpretations to India, which is all made possible with today's telecommunication technology. I read that a well known radiology residency closed as a result. Could it be ironic that technological advancements, that once created the field of radiology, is now destroying it as well?

I doubt dental procedures are popular in these relatively poor countries and I doubt there is much cultural value in pretty teeth so I think dentists over there don't have the same level of experience as the family and cosmetic dentists here. There's no better place for a dentist to be than in the U.S. where everyone is obsessed with straight, white teeth.

This is a much smaller issue than the one about student debt, piss poor distribution of dentists, midlevels, chains, biased public perception of all dentists based on a few bad apples, and recession.
Agree with above. Don't forget that airline fees are still high (and will probably not drop too much). Not to mention that much of the South Asian countries/ South East Asian countries are undergoing higher levels of violence or are expected to get more unstable. Thailand is on the verge, again. I think only cosmetic procedures that are really high end stand a chance of going there. Even then, you may not necessarily want those type of patients. Corporate dentistry, increasing government regulation, and jackal politicians such as Socialist senator Bernie Sanders are a bigger threat to dentistry.
 

yappy

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We're at peak oil or close to it. Price of travel is only going up in the long term.

Plan those life-goal-international-trips soon before they're completely out of reach financially.

Agree with above. Don't forget that airline fees are still high (and will probably not drop too much). Not to mention that much of the South Asian countries/ South East Asian countries are undergoing higher levels of violence or are expected to get more unstable. Thailand is on the verge, again. I think only cosmetic procedures that are really high end stand a chance of going there. Even then, you may not necessarily want those type of patients. Corporate dentistry, increasing government regulation, and jackal politicians such as Socialist senator Bernie Sanders are a bigger threat to dentistry.
 
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There are many instances where even with paying for the airfare and travel, it still amounts to be cheaper than getting an operation in the US. Another thing is, the poor and average aren't really who this new trend affects. They're not going to Haiti for a wisdom teeth procedure. It simply won't happen.

But for the rich who need to get some high level perio/OMFS procedures, perhaps this would affect them. Maybe even orthodontics too. If "quality" is a true concern, I'm sure there are many US-trained dentists who have decided to open up shop in their own countries.
 

yappy

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oil is going to be so scarce that trips will cost 8-10X what they do now. The cost of taking oil out of the ground skyrocketing, coupled with oil also being much more scarce, emerging countries increasing demand, and a weakened dollar will make air travel un-affordable to nearly everyone.
 

Shunwei

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I have seen a lot of patients with work in foreign countries like India and Mexico. Many are just ordinary middle class folks who use the opportunity as both a vacation and also as a cost-saving measure for themselves. However, many of them know tha the quality is generally lower than that in the U.S. and many also understand the difficulty of procuring any post-ops if necessary. So, no, I think there is not that much to fear from dental tourism as the other immediate concerns like corp dentistry and socializing the field by the government.

And I don't think that gas necessarily matters much if you are a patient interested in tourism in a border state. It doesn't cost much to drive across the border to Tijuana, for instance, to get a vacation and dental care if that's what you really want.
 

Daurang

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I have no problem with medical tourism, because I made a lot of money this summer replacing many of these failed 'medical tourism' cases. One guy spent $3000 oversea for two implants that failed 2 weeks later. They were guaranteed for 10 years but patient couldn't afford another 2 weeks vacation or $1700 for plane ticket to go back.

I'm more worry about dental offices in Cali doing exam+prophy for $5, composite for $20, or implant for $599. How do I compete with them or how do they survive on third world fees???
 

Silent Cool

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I have no problem with medical tourism, because I made a lot of money this summer replacing many of these failed 'medical tourism' cases. One guy spent $3000 oversea for two implants that failed 2 weeks later. They were guaranteed for 10 years but patient couldn't afford another 2 weeks vacation or $1700 for plane ticket to go back.

I'm more worry about dental offices in Cali doing exam+prophy for $5, composite for $20, or implant for $599. How do I compete with them or how do they survive on third world fees???
Daurang,
Where in Texas do you practice? Do you own a practice? To what degree has corp. dentistry invaded your turf?

thanx
-sc
 

Shunwei

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I have no problem with medical tourism, because I made a lot of money this summer replacing many of these failed 'medical tourism' cases. One guy spent $3000 oversea for two implants that failed 2 weeks later. They were guaranteed for 10 years but patient couldn't afford another 2 weeks vacation or $1700 for plane ticket to go back.

I'm more worry about dental offices in Cali doing exam+prophy for $5, composite for $20, or implant for $599. How do I compete with them or how do they survive on third world fees???
Many of these dental 'tourists' get what they paid for: Cheap, low quality dental work from low dental fees. I have seen patients say they go root canals and all I see are at most pulpectomies, cantilevel FPDs replacing a molar with only a premolar abutment, crowns that are devoid of all anatomies and marginal adaptation, direct restorations that have flash all over the margins . . . . you name, I probably have seen it. They inevitably end up in a few years in a re-do or more extensive tx, so these 'tourists' end up paying for more work and have to go through the ordeal.

$599 implants? How about $500 even last time I heard from a Newport dental clinic on radio.
 

yappy

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Do you guys think it would be possible to capitalize on medical tourism as a US trained dentist? For example... become an expatriate and live/practice in some low-tax/cost-free-sunny-beached-country while catering to the rich and well-educated of the world? Imagine owning a practice that was set up to offer both housing and quality dental/medical services outside of the reach of government or insurance companies.
 

Shunwei

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Do you guys think it would be possible to capitalize on medical tourism as a US trained dentist? For example... become an expatriate and live/practice in some low-tax/cost-free-sunny-beached-country while catering to the rich and well-educated of the world? Imagine owning a practice that was set up to offer both housing and quality dental/medical services outside of the reach of government or insurance companies.
If you find such a place, sign me up. Most dentists in non-U.S. countries do not earn as much as we do here, and that's why there is a legion of international dentists wanting to get licensed and work here.
 

Daurang

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Daurang,
Where in Texas do you practice? Do you own a practice? To what degree has corp. dentistry invaded your turf?
-sc
I have my own practice but not in Texas nor California. Corporate dentistry has zero effect, but lots of California dentists have opened up practice within a few miles of my practice. My income over past few years have decrease 40% due to saturation and competition; plus in part due to my office hours cutback and me vacationing every month. I don't care that business is down cause now I am happier with less work and the knowledge that I can retire tomorrow if I feel like it.
 
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Silent Cool

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I have my own practice but not in Texas nor California. Corporate dentistry has zero effect, but lots of California dentists have opened up practice within a few miles of my practice. My income over past few years have decrease 40% due to saturation and competition; plus in part due to my office hours cutback and me vacationing every month. I don't care that business is down cause now I am happier with less work and the knowledge that I can retire tomorrow if I feel like it.
In what state do you practice? Where do you think the best practice opportunities exist now? Are you bringing home over 200K?

Some friends of mine are looking to buy up in the NE--Maine, Vermont, New Hampshire, etc.. That seems to be one of the best areas right now.
thanx
 

Daurang

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Are you bringing home over 200K?
Some friends of mine are looking to buy up in the NE--Maine, Vermont, New Hampshire, etc.. That seems to be one of the best areas right now.
thanx
Yes, a lot more. Yes.
 

Lonelypharmdstudent

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Costs of travil + costs of staying + risks of malpractice = bad choice no no. Even I no has insurance for my teeth i no risk going to contry with bad risks no no I no can I sorry.
 
Jul 24, 2011
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Obviously, not nearly as a big of a threat in the face of high tuition, saturation, dental therapists and insurance reimbursements.. what is everyone's thoughts on this? Could OMFS/perio procedures be taken overseas along with cardiac and neurosurgery?

Don't mean to spell doom and gloom. I'm just wondering thoughts on this, especially for non-white Americans, the idea of going home to a trusted family doctor for considerably cheaper may spell trouble for dental professionals.

http://www.newsday.com/business/press-releases/medical-tourism-market-global-industry-analysis-size-share-growth-trends-and-forecast-2013-2019-1.6515047
Heh, don't pay too much attention to these articles. The truth is that many Americans find out that foreign doctors are not as good as US educated students. So to go to another country where you can't sue is playing with fire. That being said, you do save a lot if the procedure is minor. Why do you think the Saudi Royal family flies to LA for treatment? I have heard there are many centers that are accredited by international JCHO, one is in Mexico according to one of my profs who was a MD from England. He toured the place and was impressed by their center. Again, if something fails, you have no recourse and may end up spending more than what you would have in the states so medical tourism will mostly be for people who cannot pay for peace of mind in getting medical procedures in the US. You should read the article about Pakistan and its myriad street dentists. Really funny article but unfortunately it's not how you want to set up a practice.
 
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payme2

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I get my teeth cleaned annually while I'm traveling to South Korea. I got three of my wisdom teeth pulled last time I was there. I had to pay $250 for the bottom wisdom tooth extraction and $100 for the top two. The bottom wisdom tooth was growing sideways and required surgery (I believed I would have needed to pay top dollar in the US to see an OMFS guy, cut, break into pieces, extract, and sew).

Now that I have dental insurance I see a US dentist. But most of my family who doesn't just get it done in Korea. We never had any complications. Statistically problems may occur, and as a dentist who repairs the complications, you may have an skewed view on things, but there are plenty of people who are happy with their overseas care.
 
Jul 24, 2011
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I get my teeth cleaned annually while I'm traveling to South Korea. I got three of my wisdom teeth pulled last time I was there. I had to pay $250 for the bottom wisdom tooth extraction and $100 for the top two. The bottom wisdom tooth was growing sideways and required surgery (I believed I would have needed to pay top dollar in the US to see an OMFS guy, cut, break into pieces, extract, and sew).

Now that I have dental insurance I see a US dentist. But most of my family who doesn't just get it done in Korea. We never had any complications. Statistically problems may occur, and as a dentist who repairs the complications, you may have an skewed view on things, but there are plenty of people who are happy with their overseas care.
True, but what's the plane ticket to S. Korea cost? $1200 roundtrip not including hotel/transportation?
 

Blake1e

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Obviously, not nearly as a big of a threat in the face of high tuition, saturation, dental therapists and insurance reimbursements.. what is everyone's thoughts on this? Could OMFS/perio procedures be taken overseas along with cardiac and neurosurgery?

Don't mean to spell doom and gloom. I'm just wondering thoughts on this, especially for non-white Americans, the idea of going home to a trusted family doctor for considerably cheaper may spell trouble for dental professionals.

http://www.newsday.com/business/press-releases/medical-tourism-market-global-industry-analysis-size-share-growth-trends-and-forecast-2013-2019-1.6515047
Right now this isnt an issue. Its happening in the medical fields you mentioned (cardiac and neurosurgery) in countries where socialization of healthcare has occurred. When socialization of healthcare occurs quality tends to drop. Thats why you hear news stories of prominent Canadian politicians coming to the US for these procedures, well probably not anymore thanks to obamacare. Medical field in the US will experience med tourism to some degree like canada but as far as Im aware obamacare hasnt targeted dentistry in the same magnitude as it has with medicine, so dentists should be fine at least for now.