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New Medical Schools and Matching

Discussion in 'Pre-Medical Allopathic [ MD ]' started by FriendOfTheCupcake, 09.29.14.

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  1. FriendOfTheCupcake

    FriendOfTheCupcake Pet, food, and med school friendly

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    Hi all, I'm super interested in a new medical school - and while I can't say it will definitely make or break my choice in the case that I am accepted (crossing fingers), I was wondering if there was any information out there on how well students from new med schools tend to match? If there is another thread, link it...sorry to bring up a repeat if so! Thanks in advance :)
     
    Heplayer92 and whitecupcake like this.
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  3. allantois

    allantois 2+ Year Member

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    Look up information that exists such as stats of admitted students if they haven't graduated a medical class yet.
     
  4. alpinism

    alpinism Give Em' the Jet Fuel Bronze Donor 5+ Year Member

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    They tend to match okay regionally but poorly at top residencies.

    Less experience preparing students to match, less alumni support and mentoring, less name recognition, and less of a track record for PDs all make it harder to match at top residencies.

    Of course that doesn't mean it can't happen.
     
  5. AlteredScale

    AlteredScale Staff Member SDN Moderator 2+ Year Member

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    Some new schools like ACOM and MUCOM have no relevant information regarding matches. I do know that both of these schools will be affiliated with strong tertiary hospitals (ACOM will be affiliated with AMEC) so regional matches should be good.

    Best thing you can do is see where there core rotations are at and if they offer away rotations at teaching hospitals. That'll kind of give you an eye if they want their grads to focus on community/primary care.
     
  6. boltedbicorne

    boltedbicorne Banned Banned

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    Matching has more to do with individual merit than the caliber of the school (obvious exceptions for Caribbean's and ivys). I always found the match list hype to be a bit stupid.
     
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  7. FriendOfTheCupcake

    FriendOfTheCupcake Pet, food, and med school friendly

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    A lot of great advice already! Presumably high board scores/class standing would bring students to a similar level of competitiveness nationally?
     
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  8. NickNaylor

    NickNaylor Daisy the Dog Lifetime Donor 7+ Year Member

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    Theoretically but not necessarily. The problem with new schools is that their tradition is unknown. In other words, if I'm a program director at XYZ internal medicine program, I have no idea what the students produced by a new medical school are like or how ready they are for residency. High boards scores and class rank only tell me that you're good at studying, not that you'll be a good clinician. There's a distinction.

    All things being equal (and they never are), the graduate from any well-established institution beats the graduate from a new and unknown medical school hands down.
     
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  9. breakintheroof

    breakintheroof MS-Zero 2+ Year Member

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    Just curious, do you think that new med schools will encourage students to do away rotations at more established programs for this reason?
     
  10. NickNaylor

    NickNaylor Daisy the Dog Lifetime Donor 7+ Year Member

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    I have no idea. Away rotations are a gamble of sorts depending on the field as you're in a high-pressure situation in an environment that, in many ways, is not supportive of you. I can't imagine a school carte blanche encouraging students to do away rotations irrespective of specialty or residency goals. However, the discussion about aways is much more nuanced than this and is very specialty-dependent.
     
  11. SkipJunior

    SkipJunior I'm Your Butler Account on Hold

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    I bet you wouldn't be saying this if you weren't going to Pritzker. You really think you are way superior to us lowly DOs and low tier MDs (HBCUs, Puerto rican MD etc), don't you?

    You may be able to get away with your arrogant attitude here in sdn but I warn you, you will be working with DOs and low tier MD grads as an attending physician. If you start insulting DOs then like you do here in sdn, you will get fired and black-listed. You will become a beggar in the street and no one cares what the beggar is saying, even if the beggar says "I'm a superior MD grad of Pritzker, way better than the lowly DOs"
     
  12. AlteredScale

    AlteredScale Staff Member SDN Moderator 2+ Year Member

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    Joking or serious?
     
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  13. SkipJunior

    SkipJunior I'm Your Butler Account on Hold

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    Maybe a bit of both. Nick made some nasty condescending comments about DOs in a earlier thread and I'm still upset about that.
     
  14. DermViser

    DermViser 5+ Year Member

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    :lol::lol::lol: :roflcopter::roflcopter::roflcopter: :smack::smack::smack:
     
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  15. DermViser

    DermViser 5+ Year Member

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    Seriously. Stop getting on Nick. He didn't say anything condescending and you are twisting his words which he didn't even say. He's a very valuable member on SDN, and you need to learn not to take EVERYTHING to heart.
     
  16. DermViser

    DermViser 5+ Year Member

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    Seriously is this you Ark? or AlbinoHawkDO? or DoctorSynthesis?
     
  17. DermViser

    DermViser 5+ Year Member

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    Nope. Someone with high board scores and the top of his class at WashU will be treated differently than someone with high board scores and the top of his class at The Commonwealth Medical College in Scranton, PA.
     
  18. Aerus

    Aerus Elemental Alchemist 2+ Year Member

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    I'm all for MD's should be treated equally as DO's but I did not get ANY vibe from NickNaylor's post that suggests ANY DO condescension. I think you're reading way too deeply beyond his post.


    Sent from The World Tree using SDN Mobile
     
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  19. mimelim

    mimelim Vascular Surgery 5+ Year Member

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    So, what you are saying is that if you graduate from a DO program, you should be considered equivalent to Pritzker? I'm sorry, maybe with zero experience in this area it looks like that, but where someone goes to school makes a difference.

    You have a habit of twisting people's words, so let me be explicit. There is good training to be had at most MD/DO schools. But, there are fundamental differences between Caribbean graduates, other IMGs, DOs, MDs from most schools and MDs from the top schools. Every single class is a bell curve and there is a reasonable amount of overlap between them. I'm sure there are even people at the top end who would be standouts anywhere. But, do not kid yourself. There are very very good reasons why even those that get through an MD in the Caribbean or DO programs in the US don't match certain ACGME spots and it has nothing to do with biases among program directors.
    He is right. Individual merits matters fare more than anything else. For 95%+ of applicants, your school matters next to nothing. For those 5% where it does impact things, it ranges quite a bit. (competitive programs/specialties). Of course, this assumes that we are talking USMDs compared to one another. Everything else is a completely different story.
     
  20. mimelim

    mimelim Vascular Surgery 5+ Year Member

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    I think that you may be biased by the field that you went into. This is true for a tiny fraction of applicants. For the vast vast majority, it doesn't make a big difference. After scores, there are half a dozen other things that are more important than where you went to school. Yes, ALL things being equal, better school is, well... better... but, it just doesn't work like that in reality.

    I'm pretty proud of where I went to school and what I did there. But, its just a name. And it really doesn't mean a whole lot in the real world to most people.
     
  21. DoctorSynthesis

    DoctorSynthesis Friendly osteopath 2+ Year Member

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    Skip WTF he didn't even mention DOs. Let that other thread go
     
  22. DoctorSynthesis

    DoctorSynthesis Friendly osteopath 2+ Year Member

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    Please don't let this be an MD/DO debate.
     
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  23. Goro

    Goro 5+ Year Member

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    I don't think Nick is saying that at all, Skip. What he's saying is a known will win out over an unknown.

    Residencies view medical schools as feeder programs in the same way that medical schools look at UG schools. So a program that's had, say, Drexel and Temple grads go through and are impressed with them will accept grads from those schools over the applicants from, say, FIU or FAU, who they've never seen.

     
  24. DermViser

    DermViser 5+ Year Member

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    Your school may be "just a name" but the opportunities it gave you that you took advantage of matter which then affects residency selection. Something that isn't available at a lot of schools as a whole. I agree there are differences in individual specialties, but an AOAer/top of the class at West Virginia University will have less of a full range of interviews applying for Radiology than a WashU AOAer/top of the class, all else being equal (which it never is).
     
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  25. mimelim

    mimelim Vascular Surgery 5+ Year Member

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    It never is ;)
     
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  26. DermViser

    DermViser 5+ Year Member

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    I know, I just like how people use scenarios of "with all else being equal", which if you look at the ERAS application there is absolutely no possible way this could ever happen. The question is how big of an impact it has. I do think it depends on what specialty you're going for, or the institution you're aiming to match in.
     
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  27. gtbROX

    gtbROX 2+ Year Member

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    I feel like your posts are always missing or misunderstanding the point of the post you quote. As with Verbal, leave outside information at the door.
    His post was not addressing superiority of the two letters following a name, and his post basically echoed what I've been told previously by a Neurologist and a RadOnc.
     
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  28. SkipJunior

    SkipJunior I'm Your Butler Account on Hold

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    I agree that I was a bit too emotional with my earlier post in this thread against Nick. I was still upset about his comments against DOs in a earlier thread and yes, I will let that go. No point in holding on to the past.

    What irks me to no end in SDN is the people who take low-blow potshots at DOs but do so in an indirect fashion. They may imply something in a comment or make a snarky passive aggressive comment that indirectly put DOs down. That way they can make DOs look bad (which is their goal) while still putting their hands up and say "hey, I didn't say anything bad about D.Os".

    @mimelim I hope you realize that "DO is in now" according to the New York times. They are growing very fast and within our lifetimes, we will find that 1 in every 4 US Attending Physician is a D.O. Furthermore, admission standards of D.O schools are going up and will continue to go up. US DO schools are increasing their research output too. US DOs are not as inferior to US MDs as you implied in your post.
     
  29. SkipJunior

    SkipJunior I'm Your Butler Account on Hold

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    I disagree that my posts are "always" missing or misunderstanding the point. If that was the case, I wouldn't have accumulated over 200 likes based on my posts. I agree I should have let the earlier thread slide but I didn't.
     
  30. darklabel

    darklabel MS3 2+ Year Member

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    Don't let what people say on here get to you personally dude. The point I think people are saying on here is to adjust your reality in certain situations. For instance, in the IM forum, an excellent applicant from a low tier school didn't get into a top IM program and was disappointed. I'm sure he still matched into a great program overall, but it's just a warning that top programs do scrutinize name recognition more closely because they can. However, there really aren't many high tier schools out there with the name recognition that matters and this only applies to a small subset of people and specialties.

    I was like you and whenever I read the responses to these kinds of questions, I would think that someone from a low tier school would be lucky to even match somewhere, much less a competitive specialty. But I look at new schools' match lists (FIU, Commonwealth, UCF, etc) and low tier (Morehouse, Rosalind, NYMC, etc) and you realize it isn't nearly as doom and gloom, but just about adjusting the priorities of your future career and realizing what is realistic and what isn't.

    As for DO, the NRMP says last year had one of the highest match rates ever so I think things are improving overall.
     
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  31. gtbROX

    gtbROX 2+ Year Member

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    That's true. Okay, I'll change my wording to "often."
     

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