New MSAR highs and lows

[DrMidlife]

Most applicants
11037 GWU
10501 Drexel
10032 Boston

Fewest applicants
261 U of N Dakota
281 U of Mississippi
286 U of Puerto Rico

Biggest class
324 U of Illinois (multiple campuses)
288 Wayne State
280 Indiana U
255 (2) Jefferson, Drexel

Smallest class
43 Mayo
51 U of S Dakota
53 Morehouse

Highest overall median GPA of accepted applicants
* this is a MEDIAN not an average *
3.91 WashU
3.87 (2) Harvard, Johns Hopkins
3.85 (3) Baylor, Duke, Mayo

Lowest overall median GPA of accepted applicants
* this is a MEDIAN not an average *
3.38 (2) Universidad Central del Caribe, Howard
3.46 (2) Meharry, Morehouse

Highest overall median BCPM of accepted applicants
* this is a MEDIAN not an average *
3.91 WashU
3.87 Johns Hopkins
3.86 U of Tennessee (likely MSAR typo; see www.utmem.edu/Medicine/Admissions)
3.85 (2) Harvard, Mayo

Lowest overall median BCPM of accepted applicants
* this is a MEDIAN not an average *
3.15 Universidad Central del Caribe
3.24 Howard
3.31 (2) Meharry, Morehouse

Alleged national MCAT median scores
* per-section MEDIANS not averages *
VR10 PS11 BS11 Q

Highest MCAT composite median of accepted applicants
* this is a sum of individual section MEDIANS, not a real median or average *
37Q WashU
35R Harvard
35Q 21 schools

Lowest MCAT composite median of accepted applicants
* this is a sum of individual section MEDIANS, not a real median or average *
20 Universidad Central del Caribe
22 Ponce
22 U of Puerto Rico

Highest tuition, public in-state including fees
31192 Penn State
30349 U of Minnesota
30100 U of Virginia

Lowest tuition, public in-state including fees
0 USUHS
8565 U of Puerto Rico
8649 U of Mississippi
8994 E. Carolina U

Highest tuition, OOS including fees
62447 Medical U of S Carolina
62122 S Illinois U
59318 U of S Carolina
(remember how U of Colorado had 1st yr 72k OOS tuition? It's now 46455)

Lowest tuition, OOS including fees, actually admits OOS
0 USUHS
22457 Texas A&M
23850 UT Houston
(next 3 lowest are all TX)

Highest tuition, private including fees
45310 Tufts
44400 Temple (36372 in-state)
43201 GWU
42230 Tulane

Lowest tuition, private including fees
24848 Baylor (11748 in-state)
24691 Howard
28300 Mayo

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[mongrel]

Highest MCAT composite median of applicants
37Q WashU
35R Harvard
35Q 21 schools

Crappandahalf!

 

[DrMidlife]

Those 21 35Q's were all V11 P12 B12 Q:
* this are per-section MEDIANS not averages *
Stanford
UC San Diego
UC San Francisco
UCLA
Yale
Emory
Northwestern
U of Chicago
Johns Hopkins
U of Michigan
Duke
Columbia
Cornell
Mt. Sinai
NYU
Case Western
U of Pennsylvania
U of Pittsburgh
Brown
Vanderbilt
Baylor

 

[DrVanNostran]

Thanks for the info!

OOC, do you think its worth buying a new edition if I have last years?

 

[postbacker]

OP - are those GPA/MCAT stats for "applicants" or "matriculants?" Surely (hopefully) the latter...

 

[DrMidlife]

OP - are those GPA/MCAT stats for "applicants" or "matriculants?" Surely (hopefully) the latter...

Accepted applicants, which is not the same as matriculants. See http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=396300 for discussion of why this might matter.

Good catch, thank you. Original post edited.

 

[DrMidlife]

Thanks for the info!

OOC, do you think its worth buying a new edition if I have last years?

No. See discussion: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=396300

 

[postbacker]

The most sobering stat I have seen thus far is the list of schools with a median 35Q...yowser, that should give applicants pause before they throw away a bucket full of app $ on a 31P on what appears to be the USN Top 25, give or take a few...

 

[OncDoc19]

Those 21 35Q's were all V11 P12 B12 Q:
Stanford
UC San Diego
UC San Francisco
UCLA
Yale
Emory
Northwestern
U of Chicago
Johns Hopkins
U of Michigan
Duke
Columbia
Cornell
Mt. Sinai
NYU
Case Western
U of Pennsylvania
U of Pittsburgh
Brown
Vanderbilt
Baylor

Holy crap! Almost every school I want to apply to is on that list and I thought my MCAT would be above average

 

[searun]

So does Harvard just take the Wash U rejects? Or is Harvard the first choice of most of their matriculants?

 

[badasshairday]

LOL. That is great. 3 out of the 5 California state medschools have an average MCAT of 35Q. I think someone asked if CA state medschools are hard to get into. There you go buddy. I'm sure that UC Davis and UC Irvine aren't far behind.

 

[crimsonkid85]

hooooly mother of god. how do people make 3.9's! and that's only the MEDIAN. wow. i don't know how you guys do it! there is no way i can imagine the amount of work going into a 3.9.

 

[g3pro]

You know, you can't just add the individual medians together to get a median total...

5, 15, 5 = 25
15, 5, 5 = 25
15, 5, 5 = 25
5, 5, 15 = 25 <--- Median
5, 15, 15 = 35
15, 15, 15 = 45
15, 15, 15 = 45

---------------
15, 15, 15 = 45 (by simply adding medians), but the actual median is 25.

Which is why you shouldn't dwell on the MSAR median statistics. You can't make comparisons when you don't have all the data.

And having a "Q" writing score is at the upper-tier (80th percentile), but it's not insanely high as would be suggested by the alleged 37 composite score (97th percentile?).


The lesson learned: don't draw statistical conclusions when you statistically can't make the conclusion. If you have patients someday, it would be awesome if you could extend them that same courtesy.


EDIT: I noticed that most of you have made that same erroneous statistical conclusion. I guess Nature really was right in its assessment of pre-meds...

 

[NonTradMed]

Crazy people! Are people just getting smarter? Or is the MCAT getting easier?

 

[NervousNed]

after seeing this, i dont feel bad at all about getting rejected from some of the schools i applied, good lord 35 for 21 schools??????? so what is the new MCAT median for matriculants?

 

[NervousNed]

You know, you can't just add the individual medians together to get a median total...

5, 15, 5 = 25
15, 5, 5 = 25
15, 5, 5 = 25
5, 5, 15 = 25 <--- Median
5, 15, 15 = 35
15, 15, 15 = 45
15, 15, 15 = 45

---------------
15, 15, 15 = 45 (by simply adding medians), but the actual median is 25.

Which is why you shouldn't dwell on the MSAR median statistics. You can't make comparisons when you don't have all the data.

And having a "Q" writing score is at the upper-tier (80th percentile), but it's not insanely high as would be suggested by the alleged 37 composite score (97th percentile?).


The lesson learned: don't draw statistical conclusions when you statistically can't make the conclusion. If you have patients someday, it would be awesome if you could extend them that same courtesy.

nonetheless, the median, meaning half the students at LEAST had a 35 for 21 schools is signifigant

 

[badasshairday]

Seriously what is the new MCAT median for matriculants. 31 or 32!? That would be crazy!

 

[DrVanNostran]

Seriously what is the new MCAT median for matriculants. 31 or 32!? That would be crazy!

bump this question. I am getting scared...

 

[MDAdam]

Smallest class
43 Mayo


Highest overall median GPA of accepted applicants
3.91 WashU
3.87 (2) Harvard, Johns Hopkins
3.85 (3) Baylor, Duke, Mayo

Highest overall median BCPM of accepted applicants
3.91 WashU
3.87 Johns Hopkins
3.86 U of Tennessee (likely MSAR typo; see www.utmem.edu/Medicine/Admissions)
3.85 (2) Harvard, Mayo

Two comments (directed towards the schools, not intended to get an answer):

Mayo, why must you only accept 43 students?

Why not just look at my GPA? Why include the MCAT, WashU, Harvard, Hopkins, Yale?

*slumps over and waits till MCAT scores come in*

 

[Psycho Doctor]

Fewest applicants
261 U of N Dakota
281 U of Mississippi
286 U of Puerto Rico

that's all that applied total?? how many matriculate/ those seem like the schools to apply to if there's less competition.

 

[Psycho Doctor]

hooooly mother of god. how do people make 3.9's! and that's only the MEDIAN. wow. i don't know how you guys do it! there is no way i can imagine the amount of work going into a 3.9.

um i don't think your BCPM GPA: 3.81; Overall GPA 3.75 is exactly easy either. Your stats are fabulous and so are your acceptances; congrats!!!

 

[melissainsd]

The most sobering stat I have seen thus far is the list of schools with a median 35Q...yowser, that should give applicants pause before they throw away a bucket full of app $ on a 31P on what appears to be the USN Top 25, give or take a few...

Yup, not even my 3.96 could overcome my 31Q to with those schools. Oh well.

 

[OncDoc19]

hooooly mother of god. how do people make 3.9's! and that's only the MEDIAN. wow. i don't know how you guys do it! there is no way i can imagine the amount of work going into a 3.9.

Your stats were awesome too (not much lower than that 3.9) and you have amazing acceptances! I was wondering if you ever found out why you got rejected from UCSF pre-secondary? You certianly were a very competitive applicant. I am very interested in UCSF for MD/PhD (not a CA citizen) and was wondering if you might be able to provide any insight about their screening processes.
Thanks!

 

[chickenlittle84]

okay, but these crazy high numbers that scare me very, very much are for ACCEPTED students. But at some of these schools the numbers for MATRICULATING applicants has to be lower, right? Not for the top schools, but it seems like mid and low tier schools like Drexel and GWU, which got a crazy number of applications, must have accepted a lot of candidates with very high numbers that did not end up matriculating, which would falsely drive up their average?? Does the MSAR list what the school's yield is?

Also, if someone has the MSAR, do you have the median overall GPA, BCPM, and MCAT for Tufts and GWU???

 

[Headred27]

Seriously what is the new MCAT median for matriculants. 31 or 32!? That would be crazy!

double bump

 

[da8s0859q]

I just ordered the '08-'09 MSAR. I've gotta see some of this...

 

[sunflwr85]

that's all that applied total?? how many matriculate/ those seem like the schools to apply to if there's less competition.

I can't speak for any school but University of Mississippi, but I know that they only accept in state applicants for a class size of about 100 or 110. It's kind of frustrating going to school in the state but being out of state, because it seems like all my friends who are from MS just applied and were immediately accepted due to the lack of competition in the application process there... Oh well. (not to say they weren't qualified, but I'm no less qualifed and have had significantly more difficulty securing an acceptance, even with my own state schools.)

 

[notgettingin]

I choose to focus on the positive, and that is that I got an interview at Drexel out of that many applicants

And please no-one point out the obvious, that many stellar applicants probably were not interviewed because the school figured they wouldn't attend anyway...let me live in my fantasy world

 

[mvenus929]

Highest tuition, OOS including fees
(remember how U of Colorado had 72k OOS tuition? It's now 46455)

That's cause the policy used to be that you were OOS for one year, then you got residency status. Now you have to pay OOS tuition all four years. Makes it nice for those of us that are residents...

 

[enigma85]

nonetheless, the median, meaning half the students at LEAST had a 35 for 21 schools is signifigant

No. Calm down folks. Reread the post by g3pro. You CANNOT just add up the medians from individual MCAT sections and add them up to create a median overall score. Most of the 21 schools you think have a median of 35 probably have a median of somewhere between 32-34.

 

[nick_carraway]

No. Calm down folks. Reread the post by g3pro. You CANNOT just add up the medians from individual MCAT sections and add them up to create a median overall score. Most of the 21 schools you think have a median of 35 probably have a median of somewhere between 32-34.

You and g3pro make me happy.

 

[moto_za]

 

[silverlining1]

This is frightening. I'm getting my MCAT score back in about a week, and I am going to be so worried if I don't meet the median...

 

[DrMidlife]

No. Calm down folks. Reread the post by g3pro. You CANNOT just add up the medians from individual MCAT sections and add them up to create a median overall score. Most of the 21 schools you think have a median of 35 probably have a median of somewhere between 32-34.

That's why I said composite median, not overall median. I added up the section medians, and didn't pretend to do otherwise. If you've seen an MSAR, you know what data is in it and what's not. The actual real useful numbers simply aren't available.

Original post edited to clarify.

 

[BigRedPremed]

New highs: Number of applicants, GPA/MCAT required to get into medical school
New lows: Acceptance rate to medical school, my confidence

 

[pennybridge]

new low: apparently SDN's reading comprehension skills

 

[enigma85]

That's why I said composite median, not overall median. I added up the section medians, and didn't pretend to do otherwise. If you've seen an MSAR, you know what data is in it and what's not. The actual real useful numbers simply aren't available.

Original post edited to clarify.

Yes, I was not commenting on your original post, just the following ones by people who incorrectly assumed that the 21 schools listed have a median MCAT of 35. People on SDN are jacked up enough as it is. No need for everyone to wet their pants.

 

[DrMidlife]

Yes, I was not commenting on your original post, just the following ones by people who incorrectly assumed that the 21 schools listed have a median MCAT of 35. People on SDN are jacked up enough as it is. No need for everyone to wet their pants.

Oh. My bad. Unclench, y'all.

 

[da8s0859q]

Someone remind me of the difference(s) between the MSAR and the USN book?

 

[Funky]

Someone remind me of the difference(s) between the MSAR and the USN book?

MSAR is directly from aamc and USN is well, US news.

 

[blargh]

=(

i'm scared

 

[gsmithers68]

new low: apparently SDN's reading comprehension skills

bumpin this one... these are medians you fools! Not means! There is a big difference... think about it for a second and you will realize we don't know what the standard deviation is! I would guess it isn't <2 at some of those 21 schools. Keep your chins up.

 

[bahblacksheep]

bumpin this one... these are medians you fools! Not means! There is a big difference... think about it for a second and you will realize we don't know what the standard deviation is! I would guess it isn't <2 at some of those 21 schools. Keep your chins up.

You clearly don't know your stats. Mean and median are both perfectly good estimates of the center of a distribution. In fact, in something non-normally distributed (i.e. nonparametric), the median would be a far more accurate measure of the center of the distribution than the mean (as it would not be as heavily affected by outliers).

The truth remains that when they publish a median at 3.91, that means half their accepted students met or exceeded that number.

 

[paki20]

Most applicants

Highest overall median GPA of accepted applicants
* this is a MEDIAN not an average *
3.91 WashU
3.87 (2) Harvard, Johns Hopkins
3.85 (3) Baylor, Duke, Mayo

damn 3.91 median...crazy...haha forget about applying to these schools

 

[postbacker]

The truth remains that when they publish a median at 3.91, that means half their accepted students met or exceeded that number.

The MCAT composite median does have limitations, but this poster is getting closer to correct about GPA - no composite mumbo jumbo going on here - those are quite revealing and indicate that for the distribution of GPAs for accepted applicants, the midpoint of the range is 3.91 - staggering.

Furthermore, the stats indicate the MCAT breakdown medians for each section of the test which make it more like GPA - so if you don't like the additive composite, compare yourself to those sectional medians - not sure that I get any warmer or fuzzier feeling about median MCATs by doing that, but if it works for you, great...