New NRMP Charting Outcomes in the Match 2009 is out

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
Thanks!
 
Members don't see this ad :)
I wish detailed info like this was available from the SF match aside from what's available from their website.
 
What the heck counts as a volunteer experience? Some of these fields have people who have done a ton of "volunteer experiences."
 
This new charting outcomes is depressing. But, alas, who said it would be easy
 
Not surprising that all the ROADs specialties (and most specialties, in general) went up roughly 3-5 points since the last report came out.
 
Why does the NRMP show more applicants than residency spots overall for pretty much every category besides transitional year? I was under the impression that there were more residency spots than applicants, which is what allows the scramble to work. If it's the other way around, then it seems guaranteed that quite a few medical students are going to be stuck in a limbo, unable to get any residency at all.
 
That Step1 averages box on page 13 is pretty humbling. Plastic average is CRAZY. And >240 for Derm, Rad Onc, ENT, NSGY....yikes.

Very helpful though, thanks. I had been looking out for this new one. :thumbup:
 
Members don't see this ad :)
Although it doesn't seem that more volunteer experiences considerably improves one's chances of matching in most specialties, I am puzzled by how so many applicants are able to list 10+ volunteer experiences. Does this category include all student activities, such as being a token member of a specialty interest group or serving as a host for prospective students? I find it hard to believe that the majority of applicants did more than a couple of what I would consider to be meaningful volunteer experiences.

Any insights into what this category actually is referring to would be helpful.

Thanks.
 
fizzle said:
Why does the NRMP show more applicants than residency spots overall for pretty much every category besides transitional year? I was under the impression that there were more residency spots than applicants, which is what allows the scramble to work. If it's the other way around, then it seems guaranteed that quite a few medical students are going to be stuck in a limbo, unable to get any residency at all.
Click to expand...

I think the general consensus (and problem) is that medical school admissions are increasing at a rate faster than new residency spots are created. Thus, it is increasingly difficult to attain a residency spot. This is even seen with prelim years; our school showed us a graph correlating prelim spots to applicants, and in the past there were huge numbers of spots available beyond the number of applicants, but now the lines are almost crossed. This means it is difficult (according to our school) to scramble even a prelim med spot. Prelim surgery still has a good number unfilled every year. This is a serious problem from the applicants standpoint as well as from a social standpoint, where we may have increasing numbers of physicians unable to attain training.
 
bucknuts said:
Although it doesn't seem that more volunteer experiences considerably improves one's chances of matching in most specialties, I am puzzled by how so many applicants are able to list 10+ volunteer experiences. Does this category include all student activities, such as being a token member of a specialty interest group or serving as a host for prospective students? I find it hard to believe that the majority of applicants did more than a couple of what I would consider to be meaningful volunteer experiences.

Any insights into what this category actually is referring to would be helpful.

Thanks.
Click to expand...

ERAS doesn't have a section titled "activities". What they request is that you "include all unpaid extra-curricular activities and committees you have served on as volunteer experiences" under the experiences section. This is why the number seems so high, you have no choice but to list as such as indicated by ERAS. Because I find this odd, I personally have only listed a couple of the things I have done that I actually spent a lot of time doing, I didn't list a lot of things I did a few times since I thought that was resume padding, but who knows what you are 'supposed' to do.
 
MilkmanAl said:
Anesthesia's still chillin' in the mid 220's. I can handle that. :D
Click to expand...

Yep, it's the least competitive of the ROADs specialties, my gf is applying this year and is happy for that :) Of course, our school has like 20 people applying to anesthesia, so who knows how it will change. The numbers are vastly different for some specialties over just 2 years. For example, a raiology applicant that would have had a high chance of matching in 2007 had a much decreased chance in 2009. Scary stuff, but out of our control.
 
Alexander Pink said:
ERAS doesn't have a section titled "activities". What they request is that you "include all unpaid extra-curricular activities and committees you have served on as volunteer experiences" under the experiences section. This is why the number seems so high, you have no choice but to list as such as indicated by ERAS. Because I find this odd, I personally have only listed a couple of the things I have done that I actually spent a lot of time doing, I didn't list a lot of things I did a few times since I thought that was resume padding, but who knows what you are 'supposed' to do.
Click to expand...

Thanks.
 
Alexander Pink said:
I think the general consensus (and problem) is that medical school admissions are increasing at a rate faster than new residency spots are created. Thus, it is increasingly difficult to attain a residency spot. This is even seen with prelim years; our school showed us a graph correlating prelim spots to applicants, and in the past there were huge numbers of spots available beyond the number of applicants, but now the lines are almost crossed. This means it is difficult (according to our school) to scramble even a prelim med spot. Prelim surgery still has a good number unfilled every year. This is a serious problem from the applicants standpoint as well as from a social standpoint, where we may have increasing numbers of physicians unable to attain training.
Click to expand...

Agreed. I wouldn't worry about not getting a residency eventually though. Obama plans to increase primary care slots significantly, but not specialty ones though. So you come to med school being happy to match into FM.
 
bucknuts said:
Although it doesn't seem that more volunteer experiences considerably improves one's chances of matching in most specialties, I am puzzled by how so many applicants are able to list 10+ volunteer experiences. Does this category include all student activities, such as being a token member of a specialty interest group or serving as a host for prospective students? I find it hard to believe that the majority of applicants did more than a couple of what I would consider to be meaningful volunteer experiences.

Any insights into what this category actually is referring to would be helpful.

Thanks.
Click to expand...
It is anything that you want it to be. They just take the number listed on eras and chart. The people that had more than 6 or so probably just listed everything they did whether it was "meaningful" or not. I think probably 90% of those are people that padded their CV, while maybe 10% actually are just that hardcore that they had 10+ meaningful volunteer experiences.
 
Holy crap. General surgery has the highest number of applicants per seat. It looks like most of the rejections go to the FMGs though. US grads get accepted at an 87% rate.
 
TheProwler said:
Holy crap. General surgery has the highest number of applicants per seat. It looks like most of the rejections go to the FMGs though. US grads get accepted at an 87% rate.
Click to expand...

Yah...the general surgery numbers were a bit daunting, actually. I knew things were getting more competitive but still...

Alexander Pink said:
ERAS doesn't have a section titled "activities". What they request is that you "include all unpaid extra-curricular activities and committees you have served on as volunteer experiences" under the experiences section. This is why the number seems so high, you have no choice but to list as such as indicated by ERAS. Because I find this odd, I personally have only listed a couple of the things I have done that I actually spent a lot of time doing, I didn't list a lot of things I did a few times since I thought that was resume padding, but who knows what you are 'supposed' to do.
Click to expand...

Exactly. On ERAS, "volunteer" doesn't mean "community service", it means anything you have "volunteered" time for. And similarly, the publications section includes everything from 1st author peer review publications to poster presentations. There is no way to measure the quality of those volunteer activities/publications.
 
I would not be surprised to see rads' average stabilize in the coming years, post the impending 2010 medicare/medicaid proposed 20-30% reimbursement cuts, which will have a huge impact on bread and butter rads (XR, MRI).

Anesthesia, concurrently, may stay in the mid 220's in the coming years due to significant CRNA turf encroachment.
 
SomeDoc said:
I would not be surprised to see rads' average stabilize in the coming years, post the impending 2010 medicare/medicaid proposed 20-30% reimbursement cuts, which will have a huge impact on bread and butter rads (XR, MRI).

Anesthesia, concurrently, may stay in the mid 220's in the coming years due to significant CRNA turf encroachment.
Click to expand...

It's total bull crap that CRNAs make anywhere near anesthesiologists. Their training is light in comparison, and studies have shown mortality rates are lower when there is supervision by anesthesiologists. When the patient codes, you want someone with clinical and theoretical expertise.
 
NUc12 said:
What the heck counts as a volunteer experience? Some of these fields have people who have done a ton of "volunteer experiences."
Click to expand...
yeah, and what the hell is "work experience"???
 
I think you have "work" or "volunteer" experience if your ERAS application has anything in one of those categories. You can put in stuff from college so it really doesn't mean much.
 
TheProwler said:
Holy crap. General surgery has the highest number of applicants per seat. It looks like most of the rejections go to the FMGs though. US grads get accepted at an 87% rate.
Click to expand...
is that figure mentioned somewhere in the document? IF so, that is freaking scary as hell as only recently I've heard that about 92-94% of US seniors match. That is a freaking huge drop! :scared:
 
Doublecortin said:
is that figure mentioned somewhere in the document? IF so, that is freaking scary as hell as only recently I've heard that about 92-94% of US seniors match. That is a freaking huge drop! :scared:
Click to expand...

Its on the chart on page 5.

According to the 2007 edition, 89.7% of US seniors matched in gen surg that year...there's definitely been a drop, but its not as dramatic as you think.
 
Doublecortin said:
is that figure mentioned somewhere in the document? IF so, that is freaking scary as hell as only recently I've heard that about 92-94% of US seniors match. That is a freaking huge drop! :scared:
Click to expand...
I just took # accepted divided by # applied. They break it down further by board scores.
 
FYI, they took down the report d/t finding a calculation error that over-reported the unmatched figures for several specialties (anesthesiology being the one that we definitely know of).
 
fizzle said:
Why does the NRMP show more applicants than residency spots overall for pretty much every category besides transitional year? I was under the impression that there were more residency spots than applicants, which is what allows the scramble to work. If it's the other way around, then it seems guaranteed that quite a few medical students are going to be stuck in a limbo, unable to get any residency at all.
Click to expand...

Because there have been more applicants than spots since the 1970s. The scramble sucks; not everyone who enters the scramble gets a spot, and some people who entered the match don't scramble because they find something else to do for a year.

http://www.nrmp.org/data/index.html -- look at the first image on the page

ChiDO said:
ya, that's pretty sick...238 ortho avg...248ish for plastics....geez. :scared:
Click to expand...

Ortho only went up by 4 points? :mad:
 
Anybody have the numbers for EM? I would be curious if anyone has the numbers for any other specialties as well.

Thanks
Ed Bob
 
can someone with the .pdf PM me? If you could email me the document that would be awesome! I've been waiting for this damn thing for a year and I miss it by a day!

Again, PM me if you are willing to email the .pdf file. Thanks!
 
It's back up and revised now. Some major changes, radiology (to which I am applying) atleast looks still reachable now lol.
 
Alexander Pink said:
It's back up and revised now. Some major changes, radiology (to which I am applying) atleast looks still reachable now lol.
Click to expand...

Seriously! Rads here I come :p I guess I don't have to do that year of research afterall!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Next unread thread

Similar threads

enchantments
Charting Outcomes of the Match (2022)
2 3 4
Replies
191
Views
16K
someonerandom
someonerandom
whatsthepoint
  • Locked
Does an NRMP match violation affect SFMatch?
Replies
7
Views
856
mrbreakfast
M
E
Charting outcomes 2022?
Replies
2
Views
1K
hallowmann
hallowmann
Mr.Smile12
MD & DO [AMA] Match Day 2024 press release
Replies
2
Views
925
mrbreakfast
M
7
NRMP Violation Consequences
Replies
10
Views
786
mrbreakfast
M
Top