New US News Grad school report is out...

Discussion in 'Pre-Medical - MD' started by Jalby, Mar 7, 2002.

  1. Jalby

    Jalby I fight crime at day when Batman are sleeping.

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    in May. (sorry, had to) I called USnews because I was curious, and they told me mid may. To bad we have mostly decided by then.
     
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  3. Diogenes

    Diogenes Succat

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    I guess maybe that info is good for conversations when there's nothing else to talk about, but those rankings mean next to nothing when it comes to picking a school. I'm not sure what kind of person would choose their med school based on what it is ranked by some magazine that uses a mathematical formula to assign arbitrary values to a bunch of parameters, some of which are subjective, and some of which are not related to the quality of the education or the happiness of the students.

    I'm not trying to start something, I'm just saying not everyone puts much stock in USNews...
     
  4. Trek

    Trek Grand Uranium Member

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    Like hell! I fully intend to hold all 18 of my acceptances until i see the report and which school i got into ranks highest. lates --Trek
     
  5. Jalby

    Jalby I fight crime at day when Batman are sleeping.

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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Trek:
    <strong>Like hell! I fully intend to hold all 18 of my acceptances until i see the report and which school i got into ranks highest. lates --Trek</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Glad someone else out there thinks like I do.
     
  6. KelliJelliBeans

    KelliJelliBeans Senior Member

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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Trek:
    <strong>Like hell! I fully intend to hold all 18 of my acceptances until i see the report and which school i got into ranks highest. lates --Trek</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">18, Wow!
    Congrats <img border="0" alt="[Clappy]" title="" src="graemlins/clappy.gif" />
     
  7. UCLA2000

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    I know I'm holding on for financial aid info...rankings would be nice but I don't expect them to change drastically over last year.
     
  8. THE instiGATOR

    THE instiGATOR Cow Tipper

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    USA takes a coveted top-ten spot!!! <img border="0" alt="[Clappy]" title="" src="graemlins/clappy.gif" />

    That would be a trip, wouldn't it!?! <img border="0" alt="[Laughy]" title="" src="graemlins/laughy.gif" /> Go Jaguars! :D
     
  9. Jalby

    Jalby I fight crime at day when Batman are sleeping.

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    As to how subjective these rankings are, I looked over the methodology and found out these fallowing results. .6 of the rankings is based on pure hard numbers. .4 is based on reputations. The people deciding the reputations are (.2) school deans and senior faculty ranking the program quality and (.2) residency directors being asked to rank their top 25 schools. So while there is some subjectiveness, it is done by people who should know a lot about the medical schools and not some editor. Now, you can argue with how the formula is set up, but I think USnews does a good job ranking the schools. You should take it with a grain of salt, but I think it would be accurate to say a top 10 school in USNEWs is better than a top 20 school. But the difference between numbers 13 and 15 probably is negligable. That's why I told myself that if I got into a school ranked 15 places above my next one, I would go to it regardless.
     
  10. Diogenes

    Diogenes Succat

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    Yeah, part of my original point was that the equation is inherently arbitrary. Imagine an equation like this:
    (A x X) + (B x Y) + (C x Z) ....
    and say that X is NIH dollars, Y is Nobel prizes, and Z is the weight of the admissions director.

    If you make a small change in one of the coefficients A, B, C,... you would come up with totally different rankings. Who decides what the coefficients are and how does they relate to real-world educational value, even though X, Y, and Z are "hard numbers"?

    And obviously a top 10 school is better than a non-top 50 school in so many categories... but my point is that even 3, 4, 5, 6 places different may mean nothing.
     
  11. Jalby

    Jalby I fight crime at day when Batman are sleeping.

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    Yup. Not going to argue that point in the slightest because the equation is pretty arbitrary. But still, you use different equations, and the rankings would stay fairly (using that term very loosely) constant.
     
  12. mpp

    mpp SDN Moderator
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    Don't forget that they give you the score they calculate from the equation. You could just as easily compare the score of each school and ignore its position on the list, i.e., that school has a U.S. News Score 10 points higher than another (it doesn't necessarily mean it is 10 places higher on the rank list).

    In my opinion, the best thing about the U.S. News list is that it provides a lot of useful information together that can help people decide where to apply and where to matriculate.
     
  13. Jalby

    Jalby I fight crime at day when Batman are sleeping.

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    There is actually a TON more usefull information on the website that they don't have in the book. For example, you can find out how many URM's applied to a school, and what % are accepted. Or your chances if you are an out of stater applying to Baylor.
     
  14. KelliJelliBeans

    KelliJelliBeans Senior Member

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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Jalbrekt:
    <strong>There is actually a TON more usefull information on the website that they don't have in the book. For example, you can find out how many URM's applied to a school, and what % are accepted. Or your chances if you are an out of stater applying to Baylor.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Really, were? (Info. on URM)
     
  15. Original

    Original Ogori-Magongo Warrior

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    US News definitely has its uses. I looked up things such as international student acceptance rates before I applied. Where else would I have come across such useful (albeit to myself and a few others alone) information.

    I ended up getting rejected from almost all my "safety" schools, and invited to interview at almost all my "reach" schools. Little surprise here since USNews had already told me that my so called "reach" schools were more likely to accept an international student over the tunnel-visioned, closed-minded, in-bred, and don't forget nerdy (how ironic) "safety" schools.

    If residency placement is more important to you than average accepted MCAT, despite the fact that you're totally weird and need to check your head ASAP <img border="0" alt="[Laughy]" title="" src="graemlins/laughy.gif" /> , by a single click you can re-rank the schools based soley on this criterion.
     
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  17. Scooby Doo

    Scooby Doo IEatShavedPussyCats

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    Hmm...mid may?

    I don't think so Jalbrekt...

    They will def publish it BEFORE people make their decisions on WHAT school they are going to...hence all the money they get to do it. Last year it came out in the end of march...and my bet is it will come out around the same time this year.

    The person who gave you the information obviously did not know or was lying to you.

    Sorry dawg.
     
  18. THE instiGATOR

    THE instiGATOR Cow Tipper

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    I guess this is something only people who are interviewing at top 50 schools worry about. :D I haven't had a single one this year. Unless UF calls me this upcoming week, I will be completely shut out. Oh well! I'd love to stay at UF, but it's not because it's a top 50 school.

    Good luck deciding among schools like Duke, Stanford, UCSF, etc... I'd love to be in your shoes! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />
     
  19. Jalby

    Jalby I fight crime at day when Batman are sleeping.

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    Umm, yeah. I had the subscription lady at USnews look it up on the computer. You have your own heresay of when it should go out. Who are you going to believe? Besides, only medical school do people decide what schools they are going to go to that early.

    Besides, even if you do decide to go to X school, arn't you still going to buy the magazine? (or at least look at it online for an hour or 2)

    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Scooby Doo:
    <strong>Hmm...mid may?

    I don't think so Jalbrekt...

    They will def publish it BEFORE people make their decisions on WHAT school they are going to...hence all the money they get to do it. Last year it came out in the end of march...and my bet is it will come out around the same time this year.

    The person who gave you the information obviously did not know or was lying to you.

    Sorry dawg.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
     
  20. praying4MD

    praying4MD 2K Member

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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Jalbrekt:
    <strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Trek:
    <strong>Like hell! I fully intend to hold all 18 of my acceptances until i see the report and which school i got into ranks highest. lates --Trek</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Glad someone else out there thinks like I do.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'm pretty sure Trek was being sarcastic here Jalbrekt. To be honest, I hope you were being sarcastic too.
     
  21. Jalby

    Jalby I fight crime at day when Batman are sleeping.

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    Oh, and the normal schools one comes out in december.
     
  22. Jalby

    Jalby I fight crime at day when Batman are sleeping.

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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by praying4MD:
    <strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Jalbrekt:
    <strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Trek:
    <strong>Like hell! I fully intend to hold all 18 of my acceptances until i see the report and which school i got into ranks highest. lates --Trek</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Glad someone else out there thinks like I do.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'm pretty sure Trek was being sarcastic here Jalbrekt. To be honest, I hope you were being sarcastic too.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You think he was being sacrcastic????? I'm not so sure. Sounds totally bonafide to me.
     
  23. Papa Smurf

    Papa Smurf Thug 4 Life

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    Dude, he was totally being sarcastic. I can guarantee it. To tell you the truth, Trek isn't even applying to medical school. He's a high school senior trying to be cool and fit in with the big boys. Pretty lame, no? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />
     
  24. praying4MD

    praying4MD 2K Member

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    Are you guys messing with my head or something? I know of one person in all the med students and premeds I have met with that many acceptances. Judging from Trek's previous posts, yup, I'm pretty sure.

    Well, I'll leave it up to him to confirm because it is pretty inconsequential anyway.
     
  25. Papa Smurf

    Papa Smurf Thug 4 Life

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    Hey Jalbrekt, I got an honest question for ya, hope you can give me an honest answer. If at the end of the summer, you've been rejected from every school you interviewed at, except one, which just happened to be no-name Podunk U, would you matriculate or apply again?
     
  26. praying4MD

    praying4MD 2K Member

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    Wow. I just realized Jalbrekt is really serious about letting USNews rankings basically decide where he will matriculate. I'm still in shock... <img border="0" alt="[Wowie]" title="" src="graemlins/wowie.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Wowie]" title="" src="graemlins/wowie.gif" />
     
  27. Original

    Original Ogori-Magongo Warrior

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    I don't believe it! I'm sure Jalbrekt is being sarcastic as well.
     
  28. Papa Smurf

    Papa Smurf Thug 4 Life

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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Original:
    <strong>I don't believe it! I'm sure Jalbrekt is being sarcastic as well.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Dude, I don't think so. I talked to his mom the other day, and she told me straight up that it wasn't all about da benjamins baby, that the rankings will play a big role as well. Am I wrong?
     
  29. praying4MD

    praying4MD 2K Member

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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Papa Smurf:
    <strong>I talked to his mom the other day</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This phrase sounded so strange to me. <img border="0" alt="[Laughy]" title="" src="graemlins/laughy.gif" /> May I ask why on earth were you talking to an anonymous internet poster's mom? Tell me you know jalbrekt outside of sdn... please.
     
  30. Scooby Doo

    Scooby Doo IEatShavedPussyCats

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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Jalbrekt:
    <strong>Umm, yeah. I had the subscription lady at USnews look it up on the computer. You have your own heresay of when it should go out. Who are you going to believe? Besides, only medical school do people decide what schools they are going to go to that early.

    Besides, even if you do decide to go to X school, arn't you still going to buy the magazine? (or at least look at it online for an hour or 2)

    </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well that's why. You talked to the subscription lady. Just b/c it comes out in May doesn't mean that it isn't ONLINE before then.

    I bet you it will be out by mid April
     
  31. Incendiary

    Incendiary Fantabulous Member

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    The rankings issue for graduate schools normally comes out in February/March. I don't know why things are supposedly delayed this year, but whatever. Oh, and I think they're usually posted online a little bit (a week?) before they're published...
     
  32. Jalby

    Jalby I fight crime at day when Batman are sleeping.

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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Papa Smurf:
    <strong>Hey Jalbrekt, I got an honest question for ya, hope you can give me an honest answer. If at the end of the summer, you've been rejected from every school you interviewed at, except one, which just happened to be no-name Podunk U, would you matriculate or apply again?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Without question i would apply again. I actually had this situation two years ago. I feel that it was my first 2 years of college where I didn't care about school that is holding me back, and I feel I have done quite good the last 4 years. If I get into a school where I feel I can make up the lost ground, I would go. So I made sure that the majority of the schools I apply to is schools where I would want to go.
     
  33. Jalby

    Jalby I fight crime at day when Batman are sleeping.

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    Just to clear something up, I was being extremely sarcastic, except for the part about choosing a school over another if it is 15 places ahead.
     
  34. Scooby Doo

    Scooby Doo IEatShavedPussyCats

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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by praying4MD:
    <strong>Wow. I just realized Jalbrekt is really serious about letting USNews rankings basically decide where he will matriculate. I'm still in shock... <img border="0" alt="[Wowie]" title="" src="graemlins/wowie.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Wowie]" title="" src="graemlins/wowie.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I didn't read his post..but why does that surprise you?!??!

    WE ALL ARE LETTING THEM CHOOSE WHERE WE GO. If you end up having a CHOICE in the end, people are going to base it on a few things:
    1) Rank
    2) Cost
    3) Location

    I bet roughly 90% of the premed population would choose a school ranked 10 over a school not ranked. Even if the cost and location were better for the unranked one.
     
  35. Papa Smurf

    Papa Smurf Thug 4 Life

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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by praying4MD:
    <strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Papa Smurf:
    <strong>I talked to his mom the other day</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This phrase sounded so strange to me. <img border="0" alt="[Laughy]" title="" src="graemlins/laughy.gif" /> May I ask why on earth were you talking to an anonymous internet poster's mom? Tell me you know jalbrekt outside of sdn... please.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Actually, Jalbrekt's mom is an avid SDN reader praying4MD. I dedicated a post to her welcoming her the other day. Anyway, I was being sarcastic about the whole talking to his mom deal.

    Jalbrekt, dude, why the hell are the rankings so freakin important to you, to the point where you'd reapply if you only get into a no-name school? Why waste another year? Sorry bro, crap like this is making me question why you're going into medicine. I can understand using the rankings to pick between two different schools. But I think it's crazy to use the rankings to justify turning down an acceptance at a lower tier school. If the state school can teach you what you need to know, and still gets you the MD, isn't that the bottom line bro? Sorry, just trying to understand why perceived status and prestige are so important to you.
     
  36. DAL

    DAL no thank you

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    My problem with rankings is that they are not that useful for matriculants. If you're deciding between schools that are say 15 or 20 places apart, who is to say that four years down the road when you apply for that ultra-competitive residency where rankings hold a degree of importance, your school is still ahead of the other in the rankings. Yeah it's a stretch, but making rankings a large factor in your decision is a bit foolish because much can change in four years time.
     
  37. lilycat

    Moderator Emeritus

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    Ok, I have no idea how serious or non-serious about rankings everyone is, but for what it's worth...

    When I was applying last year, I was in my second year of working at Stanford Med Ctr. My boss (the division chief) and I would often discuss med school admissions, where I was applying, etc. Early on in the process he expressed concern that I was applying to too many "top" schools. He made the point that any school will work as long as you're dedicated enough. To illustrate his point, he mentioned a senior resident who had kind of blown off college, and as a result didn't have a very competitive application for med school -- she ultimately got into Meharry, which is usually not known as a powerhouse in the med school community. She kicked ass in med school, got a very competitive residency, and was one of the most stellar residents they ever had in the program -- all the different divisions were trying to recruit her into their fellowships. I'm sure this story isn't the "norm," but at the same time, this resident wasn't some superhuman genius. She just knew enough to work hard when it counted.
     
  38. Mr.D

    Mr.D insipidus maximus

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    DAL, I don't think any school has moved up or
    down 20 places in the last five years I've been
    reading US News. The rankings are pretty much
    consistent year after year with most schools usually swapping two or three spaces. But, I get
    your point about not choosing a school now that
    four years down the road might not be ranked as
    as high as when you first matriculated.
     
  39. aesculpian, is it me, or are you writing a POEM every time you post??????

    because if it's me, and you're not Trying to write a little SDN poem-post, then i could give you a helpful tip: when you type long enough on one line, it *automatically* gets moved to the next line. so you don't have to manually work it like a typewriter.

    PINKIES OFF the Return key!!
     
  40. DAL

    DAL no thank you

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    HAHAHA! You're a trip Caveman, I just noticed the poem format.
     
  41. Incendiary

    Incendiary Fantabulous Member

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    Right on, A. Caveman. I was going to make the suggestion earlier, but never got around to it. What I don't get is how some of the lines are full length, while most are cut off. But whatever...
     
  42. THE instiGATOR

    THE instiGATOR Cow Tipper

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    PM delivery for a Mr. A. Caveman! Check your mailbox, man.
     
  43. Mr.D

    Mr.D insipidus maximus

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    Thanks for the tip Caveman - no more poems from me, yeahhhhh! <img border="0" alt="[Clappy]" title="" src="graemlins/clappy.gif" />
     
  44. Scooby Doo

    Scooby Doo IEatShavedPussyCats

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    aesculpian,

    I might be seeing you at a school soon...
     
  45. yunfat

    yunfat Senior Member

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    even though USNews gets some of their scores from residency directors... we also need to consider the fact that the response rate is like 25-35%!!! So, I doubt these figures are giving us a very clear picture of the school's reputation...

    I would like to see what those other 70% or so think...
     
  46. alice

    alice Senior Member

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    for what it's worth, i think there is some merit to the rankings, based on what the poster above mentioned. they base their report on real stats. while i wouldn't go to harvard(1) or duke (3) over columbia (6), i certainly would go to stanford(9) over vanderbilt(16). that's less than a 15 point difference. i think that you are being very silly if you base your choice on the specific rankings, but i'd also be surprised if people didn't have a general idea where the schools they applied to fell on the list. i'm just being honest. i didn't need to reference any list to come up with those numbers in my post. and did it matter for me that tulane and stony brook weren't on the list? yup. no way to compare them to other schools, although i bet they're a cut above bu or tufts (both mid-30s).

    just my honest opinion.

    if you aren't convinced that i'm compulsive yet, i don't know what to tell you.
     
  47. Incendiary

    Incendiary Fantabulous Member

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    alice, why are you so convinced that Tulane and Stonybrook are "a cut above BU and Tufts"? I think BU and Tufts students both have far superior hospitals at which to round, plus a heck of a lot more money. Do you have some super source that none of the rest of us know about? (Gourman's? :p )
     

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