- Joined
- Nov 30, 2001
- Messages
- 389
- Reaction score
- 1
Hi,
I feel a little pretentious writing this, but someone emailed me and asked, so I obliged.
I'm a 3rd year (last year of preclinical) medical student at the university of Otago, in Dunedin. In New Zealand there are 2 medical schools, each with a 6 year course.
Auckland medical school accepts people straight out of 7th form (final year of high school). It was established in the 1970's. They accept/decline you an interview on the basis of your marks in 7th form (if >385 / 500 you are automatically granted an interview).
Another way you can get in is through doing the first year of a health sciences degree... but they only accept perhaps 0-5 from a class of... 100? I have no idea. I had a [reasonably intelligent] acquaintance of mine who tried to get in this way, and failed.
A third way is through already having a undergraduate degree. I presume if you are accepted, you enter the 2nd year medical class instead of 1st year.
I don't know much else about Auckland med school. Auckland the city is the largest in New Zealand (population ~1,000,000)... is that good or bad? You decide. Personally I like big cities but auckland feels a little too... aucklandish.. to me ;D hehe. It's currently hosting the America's cup.
I can give you rumours... but these are completely unsubstantiated. I have some friends who are 3rd years there. When a friend of mine visited them, he said they were really stressed out and generally... weird about studying constantly. They wouldn't drink with him because they had exams (not finals) coming up in 2 or so weeks. Of course they weren't exactly party animals before they matriculated...
Apparently many/most med students live in the same hall of residence (Grafton Hall? - if that's any help).
If you have any other questions about Auckland, ask or search the web.
As far as reputation is concerned [from an objective standpoint] Otago and Auckland are fairly equal. Of course, in my view my school is far superior to those young upstarts up north!
Both award an MBChB after 6 years of study. Auckland graduates also receive the BHB (Bachelor of human biology) after their preclinical years. If you want two things to put after your name, go to auckland. I don't think the BHB is worth the paper it's written on, however. They get taught exactly the same things... Why they think they deserve another degree is beyond me.
******** Otago med school
It's the oldest in NZ, and I believe either the oldest or second oldest in Australasia / probably most of the south pacific. It was founded in 1877. Perhaps this is vain, but I really think the history adds something that, nothing else can.
There are again varied ways of gaining admittance. Most of the students enter through Health Science 1st year (first year of uni). They sit 7 university level one papers (Essentially; Chemistry, Biology, Human Biology, English, Biostatistics, Biochemistry and Physics... you can find them on the otago web site).
Health Science is not strictly for entering medicine. I believe you can enter Med Lab, Physiotherapy, Pharmacy, Dentistry and Medicine in that order of difficulty. However, I think the good majority of people who enter (from my personal experience of talking to many of them) are trying to get into medicine, at least as a pipe dream.
In my year in Health Science, there was at least 1200. Rumour had it as around 1300-1500. But it was hard to tell. We were doing the papers of the first year of a rather generic BSc essentially, so it was hard to tell who was 'in healthscience' and who was just another joe. A newspaper clipping my father showed me from perhaps a decade ago said that there were only 700 people doing healthscience... I'm fairly sure things have changed since then, but maybe I'm wrong.
In my year, entry was based strictly on grades in the first year. A line was drawn between the guys ranked 120th and 121st, and the rest of the 1200+, well they didn't get into medicine. The lowest grade admitted is nearly always a high A- (~83-84% average across 7 subjects, with no subject being under... 70%).
As of this year (2003) they are changing the system. Apparently they are beginning interviews (after 1st year health science), and are sometime later, likely to use the UMAT or something similar as a guide to... whatever UMAT is supposed to be a guide for. UMAT is essentially an Australian equivalent of MCAT. You would have to contact the med school itself to ask about these changes (www.otago.ac.nz -> departments and schools -> Health Sciences -> faculty of medicine).
I've already written a lot about the grading system in another thread, I'll post that again in this one later. It's 2:30am here on Christmas day so I'll try to round it up and post some more in a couple of days).
>Is your school a PBL one?
We don't use the term PBL here. If by this you are talking about, you are given cases, and you sit around in groups discussing it... then sort of.
Our physiology tutorials I think are what most closely resembles 'PBL'. Essentially, we are given a case as a group (~5 people)... we are expected to prepare for the case, research material about the disease et cetera, then present the findings with the group, and answer questions/ talk/ go to a sum-up session et cetera where we stand up in front of half of the class and display our ignorance.
I really think the physiology tutorials are flawed however. If one person doesn't pull their weight, the rest of the group has a gap in their learning, essentially. I hate to say it, but I'm more often than not that person, and it makes me feel horrible.
We have a .... system(?)... called 'systems integration'... where we.. integrate... all our systems... together (eg. all our learning (biochem, path, physio, histo etc) is combined into one case. This is also PBL-ish, but I find it marvelous. It's really well organised with pre-printed model notes/answers, so your own notes don't miss anything out. It's based on real cases, you are given patient history, symptoms/signs et cetera, path/histo findings, and you diagnose. This is rather muddled, I apologise. I'll clean it up later.
I have heard they are radically changing the curriculum however, the basis being more early clinical contact AND an emphasis on case-based teaching. Details are on the website aforementioned.
>How many international students in your class? How are they doing?
Heaps
. We have ... at least 10-14 Saudi Arabians.. 1 American (at least).. a whole bunch of australians (5-7ish?) At least 2 from the Seychelles, 2 (at least) from Singapore, 1 (at least) from Malaysia... and many from the asian continent (chinese, taiwanese, hong konger) as well (no japanese I think).
The ethnic diversity is quite... well diverse. The international chinese /hong kongers /taiwanese tend to stick to themselves which is a bit sad. Great people, though.
We also have a large amount of Maori in our class (racial quotas). I initially didn't like the prospect of someone being admitted merely because they were brown (I apologise for saying that), but the guys I know..... are terrific, what more can I say.
We also have a Fijian Indian or two, an Indian, and a Sri Lankan. A few (that I know of) from the United Arab Emirates. (I apologise if this sounds like a shopping list, I'm tired).
There may be more, but I can't remember off the top of my hat. My class is just under 200. The Saudi Arabians and Seychelles people are sponsored by their governments.
On the whole... the international students are going... well just like everyone else, great. Except for the aforementioned chinese/hong kongers (not all of them! just.... enough to be worth mentioning), the internationals... aren't really thought of as such (in my head anyway). By this I mean, I'd like to think we are above such petty things as nationalism.
>What is the age range in your med school?
Most are 18 in the first year. Some are as old as 40-50 however (one of my good friends couldn't be a day younger than 40 I'm sorry to say!, with a large 'pocket' of mature students in the 24-30 year old range (in second year).
>3. In one of your post, you states in your school, at the beginning of the first year, there are 1000 - 1800 students in one class. Then at the beginning of the second year, there are 100 - 180 students in the class.
>
>1000 - 1800 ? Is this true? or it is a typo?
True. Read above
>4. You mentioned in your recent class, 5 international students failed. What are their nationality?
... I don't really want to say... As... If anyone from my school reads this, they could probably guess who I am and who I am talking about
Let's just say.... their fathers are probably billionaires and their failing had nothing to do with lack of intelligence.. just partying 24/7
>In your med school, have you seen anyone from Taiwan? How are they doing? can they succeed?
I'm 99% sure we have several taiwanese in our class. Of course they can suceed! If anyone has made it through the rigours of first year, med school is a cake walk.
One thing I do find however, is that many of the international asian students lack confidence. This is the only negative opinion I have of them. This really shows up when we have to do mock patient interviews, or have group discussions, or have to partially undress (but hey, then I'm not exactly confident then, either). I can try to understand... but... everyone is so supportive of each other, with a 0% chance of being mocked [(to your face!] for your opinion, that... to be honest I just wish they'd 'snap out of it' sometimes.
I feel a little pretentious writing this, but someone emailed me and asked, so I obliged.
I'm a 3rd year (last year of preclinical) medical student at the university of Otago, in Dunedin. In New Zealand there are 2 medical schools, each with a 6 year course.
Auckland medical school accepts people straight out of 7th form (final year of high school). It was established in the 1970's. They accept/decline you an interview on the basis of your marks in 7th form (if >385 / 500 you are automatically granted an interview).
Another way you can get in is through doing the first year of a health sciences degree... but they only accept perhaps 0-5 from a class of... 100? I have no idea. I had a [reasonably intelligent] acquaintance of mine who tried to get in this way, and failed.
A third way is through already having a undergraduate degree. I presume if you are accepted, you enter the 2nd year medical class instead of 1st year.
I don't know much else about Auckland med school. Auckland the city is the largest in New Zealand (population ~1,000,000)... is that good or bad? You decide. Personally I like big cities but auckland feels a little too... aucklandish.. to me ;D hehe. It's currently hosting the America's cup.
I can give you rumours... but these are completely unsubstantiated. I have some friends who are 3rd years there. When a friend of mine visited them, he said they were really stressed out and generally... weird about studying constantly. They wouldn't drink with him because they had exams (not finals) coming up in 2 or so weeks. Of course they weren't exactly party animals before they matriculated...
Apparently many/most med students live in the same hall of residence (Grafton Hall? - if that's any help).
If you have any other questions about Auckland, ask or search the web.
As far as reputation is concerned [from an objective standpoint] Otago and Auckland are fairly equal. Of course, in my view my school is far superior to those young upstarts up north!
Both award an MBChB after 6 years of study. Auckland graduates also receive the BHB (Bachelor of human biology) after their preclinical years. If you want two things to put after your name, go to auckland. I don't think the BHB is worth the paper it's written on, however. They get taught exactly the same things... Why they think they deserve another degree is beyond me.
******** Otago med school
It's the oldest in NZ, and I believe either the oldest or second oldest in Australasia / probably most of the south pacific. It was founded in 1877. Perhaps this is vain, but I really think the history adds something that, nothing else can.
There are again varied ways of gaining admittance. Most of the students enter through Health Science 1st year (first year of uni). They sit 7 university level one papers (Essentially; Chemistry, Biology, Human Biology, English, Biostatistics, Biochemistry and Physics... you can find them on the otago web site).
Health Science is not strictly for entering medicine. I believe you can enter Med Lab, Physiotherapy, Pharmacy, Dentistry and Medicine in that order of difficulty. However, I think the good majority of people who enter (from my personal experience of talking to many of them) are trying to get into medicine, at least as a pipe dream.
In my year in Health Science, there was at least 1200. Rumour had it as around 1300-1500. But it was hard to tell. We were doing the papers of the first year of a rather generic BSc essentially, so it was hard to tell who was 'in healthscience' and who was just another joe. A newspaper clipping my father showed me from perhaps a decade ago said that there were only 700 people doing healthscience... I'm fairly sure things have changed since then, but maybe I'm wrong.
In my year, entry was based strictly on grades in the first year. A line was drawn between the guys ranked 120th and 121st, and the rest of the 1200+, well they didn't get into medicine. The lowest grade admitted is nearly always a high A- (~83-84% average across 7 subjects, with no subject being under... 70%).
As of this year (2003) they are changing the system. Apparently they are beginning interviews (after 1st year health science), and are sometime later, likely to use the UMAT or something similar as a guide to... whatever UMAT is supposed to be a guide for. UMAT is essentially an Australian equivalent of MCAT. You would have to contact the med school itself to ask about these changes (www.otago.ac.nz -> departments and schools -> Health Sciences -> faculty of medicine).
I've already written a lot about the grading system in another thread, I'll post that again in this one later. It's 2:30am here on Christmas day so I'll try to round it up and post some more in a couple of days).
>Is your school a PBL one?
We don't use the term PBL here. If by this you are talking about, you are given cases, and you sit around in groups discussing it... then sort of.
Our physiology tutorials I think are what most closely resembles 'PBL'. Essentially, we are given a case as a group (~5 people)... we are expected to prepare for the case, research material about the disease et cetera, then present the findings with the group, and answer questions/ talk/ go to a sum-up session et cetera where we stand up in front of half of the class and display our ignorance.
I really think the physiology tutorials are flawed however. If one person doesn't pull their weight, the rest of the group has a gap in their learning, essentially. I hate to say it, but I'm more often than not that person, and it makes me feel horrible.
We have a .... system(?)... called 'systems integration'... where we.. integrate... all our systems... together (eg. all our learning (biochem, path, physio, histo etc) is combined into one case. This is also PBL-ish, but I find it marvelous. It's really well organised with pre-printed model notes/answers, so your own notes don't miss anything out. It's based on real cases, you are given patient history, symptoms/signs et cetera, path/histo findings, and you diagnose. This is rather muddled, I apologise. I'll clean it up later.
I have heard they are radically changing the curriculum however, the basis being more early clinical contact AND an emphasis on case-based teaching. Details are on the website aforementioned.
>How many international students in your class? How are they doing?
Heaps
. We have ... at least 10-14 Saudi Arabians.. 1 American (at least).. a whole bunch of australians (5-7ish?) At least 2 from the Seychelles, 2 (at least) from Singapore, 1 (at least) from Malaysia... and many from the asian continent (chinese, taiwanese, hong konger) as well (no japanese I think).The ethnic diversity is quite... well diverse. The international chinese /hong kongers /taiwanese tend to stick to themselves which is a bit sad. Great people, though.
We also have a large amount of Maori in our class (racial quotas). I initially didn't like the prospect of someone being admitted merely because they were brown (I apologise for saying that), but the guys I know..... are terrific, what more can I say.
We also have a Fijian Indian or two, an Indian, and a Sri Lankan. A few (that I know of) from the United Arab Emirates. (I apologise if this sounds like a shopping list, I'm tired).
There may be more, but I can't remember off the top of my hat. My class is just under 200. The Saudi Arabians and Seychelles people are sponsored by their governments.
On the whole... the international students are going... well just like everyone else, great. Except for the aforementioned chinese/hong kongers (not all of them! just.... enough to be worth mentioning), the internationals... aren't really thought of as such (in my head anyway). By this I mean, I'd like to think we are above such petty things as nationalism.
>What is the age range in your med school?
Most are 18 in the first year. Some are as old as 40-50 however (one of my good friends couldn't be a day younger than 40 I'm sorry to say!
, with a large 'pocket' of mature students in the 24-30 year old range (in second year).>3. In one of your post, you states in your school, at the beginning of the first year, there are 1000 - 1800 students in one class. Then at the beginning of the second year, there are 100 - 180 students in the class.
>
>1000 - 1800 ? Is this true? or it is a typo?
True. Read above
>4. You mentioned in your recent class, 5 international students failed. What are their nationality?
... I don't really want to say... As... If anyone from my school reads this, they could probably guess who I am and who I am talking about
Let's just say.... their fathers are probably billionaires and their failing had nothing to do with lack of intelligence.. just partying 24/7
>In your med school, have you seen anyone from Taiwan? How are they doing? can they succeed?
I'm 99% sure we have several taiwanese in our class. Of course they can suceed! If anyone has made it through the rigours of first year, med school is a cake walk.
One thing I do find however, is that many of the international asian students lack confidence. This is the only negative opinion I have of them. This really shows up when we have to do mock patient interviews, or have group discussions, or have to partially undress (but hey, then I'm not exactly confident then, either). I can try to understand... but... everyone is so supportive of each other, with a 0% chance of being mocked [(to your face
!] for your opinion, that... to be honest I just wish they'd 'snap out of it' sometimes.
