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Discussion in 'Anesthesiology' started by Precedexed Out, Oct 1, 2017.
Sounds like some people out there need to stop being racist so you can enjoy your sports again
It's too simple to claim "perception vs reality" for the person that has to live in THAT reality. It's like you saying anesthesiology is a tough job to a surgeon and him telling you your job is easy. What does he know? He's not an anesthesiologist. He only sees what you do from his view.
Just wondering @Precedexed Out - do you stand in your living room for every National Anthem? No? Really? Why are you disrespectful to me, when I put on my USN uniform day after day?
Naw, I’m just effing with you. Peaceful actions don’t hurt my feelings.
(Yeah, I know I’m fanning the flames. I couldn’t resist my own curiosity to post the question.)
Has nothing to do w being racist...
This is my problem with the situation. So bc I want to sit down and watch a football game or listen to sports center on the way to work without this polarizing racism propaganda you label me as a racist.
when I worked EMS in a more suburban/rural environment, I remember responding to the station in my personal vehicle one night. Admittedly, I was going a bit fast and blew past some deputies. As I’m getting out of my car at the station, cops pull up at the same time and the first thing that comes to my mind is “I hope they recongnize that this is a radio in my hand and not a gun” and reflexively put my hands up. I’d be willing to bet a lot of money that the 9/10 of my colleagues would never think of reacting the way I did. To put this in perspective, I’m a paramedic who’s also applied to be a state trooper and my dad is a LEO.
So yea, that’s what @Twiggidy is talking about. We aren’t all nuts or sensitive snowflakes.
We are supposed to care about what you find offensive, but not about what others find offensive? Sounds entitled.
I think it's funny we're even having this conversation. You liberals are pros at twisting reality
I literally just got called racist for stating I don't want politics involved in athletics. Unbelievable
Funniest part is I'm pretty much in the middle politically. Voted for obama his first term and Hilary last election
But yes, I'm racist yet voted for a black man for president
I always find this to be a strange line of argument. There are so many examples of people being deeply hateful and wicked against a group of people as a whole, while still claiming to like individuals of said group. Most minorities have experienced this as “we like you, glypha1104, you’re not like one of those black people.” This statement is usually followed by scoffing, sighing, and terminating the conversation.
I didn't call you racist. I said you sounded entitled. You go on to say things that are considered offensive to many here about how the kneeling men of the NFL are not being respectful to the soldiers that die for the country and he should shut up and do what he is paid for. However, when you say that someone is being extremely offensive to you, I'm supposed take that seriously.
It's annoying. I'm hearing about how people shouldn't offend you, but it is your freedom of speech right to go and call these guys unpatriotic and entitled.
It is SIMPLE. It is their right to kneel during the anthem and it is YOUR right to turn off the NFL. After that, MOVE ON
Is this guy trying to source an article from Huffington post?!?
I just lol'd
What a joke
“Where’s my African-American at?!”
Sure, whatever you say pal
To be fair, I was watching the redskins vs the chiefs and the fans shouted “chiefs” at the end of the national anthem. I wonder how native Americans were feeling watching that.
The racism is strong with you!
Yep. KKK here. You got me
ITT: people who deny the very existence of institutional racism.
I get it, disagreement = racist
I'll start taking some cultural sensitivity classes
Kinda like in NHL games when the Stars fans yell “STARS” at one of the last lines of the Anthem. I’ve always felt that was kinda rude and letting fandom overshadow patriotism but it’s never hurt my feelings to cause a Twitter-storm.
I was thinking more neo-nazi-ish...
I’m not sure what to do with this. You think I’m making this up, exaggerating?
Actually at the university of Oklahoma the fans would yell "Home of the SOONERS!!" instead of home of the brave. There was a lot of controversy surrounding the substitution and ultimately the fans did away with it due to disrespect to the country.
Oh yes absolutely. Hail Hitler!! I hate Jews!!
You forgot muslims, blacks, hispanics, asians. There are a lot more people out there to hate!!
Your attempt at humor is taken, but the evolution of racism has become much more sophisticated since the 70s/80s and the GOP shift to the southern strategy. Granted I may be speaking too soon about the shift to sophistication, since according to DJT apparently good people exist on both sides, even when one side includes white hood wearers.
An iconic quote from Lee Atwater:
"You start out in 1954 by saying, “N**ger, n**er, n**ger.” By 1968 you can't say “n**ger” — that hurts you. Backfires. So you say stuff like forced busing, states' rights and all that stuff. You're getting so abstract now [that] you're talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you're talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is [that] blacks get hurt worse than whites. And subconsciously maybe that is part of it. I'm not saying that. But I'm saying that if it is getting that abstract, and that coded, that we are doing away with the racial problem one way or the other. You follow me — because obviously sitting around saying, “We want to cut this,” is much more abstract than even the busing thing, and a hell of a lot more abstract than “N**ger, n**ger.”"
-Interview with Alexander P. Lamis (8 July 1981), as quoted in The Two-Party South (1984) by Alexander P. Lamis;originally published as an interview with an anonymous insider, Atwater was not revealed to be the person interviewed until the 1990 edition
Yes!!! Sorry I hate everyone except my blonde hair blue eyed counterparts
Who labeled you racist? C'mon man, actually read what people are saying. Again, the problem with all race talk is no one listens. What i said was, "if you want Sportscenter, Sports radio, Bob Costas, whoever to stop talking RACE" then certain individuals, whoever they may be need to stop doing things the offend different races (don't call baseball players N-words, don't say make offensive comments to latin baseball players, dont say the mountain of racists things that have been said about people like Kaep, Sherman, Bennett, etc)...not YOU.
Exactly. We're just trying to stay alive.
Read the thread
Honestly I don't even know why this topic is on an anesthesia message board. I'm done w it sorry if I offended was just giving my two cents
You mean your 1 nickel, pennies are brown!
Your arguments are completely illogical. Yes its their right to Kneel, but it's also other people's right to express their dissatisfaction with those people who kneel. To comment on people who are upset at the NFL and make any kind of statement like they are entitled makes you sound entitled.
The bigger point in all of this is that while people are claiming that Trump is "dividing" the country more, the actions of the NFL and players have just as much caused a rift in the country, even more so than Trump did. Yes Trump's actions precipitated the NFL's response, but the blame goes both ways.
It's so easy nowadays to be on the side that SEEMS politically correct, but more often than not, the very ideology behind politically correct thought processes, are in in of themselves politically incorrect.
Anyway, the overall summary, is whether you like it or not, people have a 1st amendment right for free speech. The amendment only prevents them from being jailed for speech. It does not free them from being fired from a job. We all know that and can cite many examples. People also have the right to change the channel if they don't like what they see. The cable company will never chase them down.
That's the 1st amendment in a nutshell. It's for people you both agree and disagree with.
It is really simple, either you stick with the liberal narrative or you are racist. There is no in between. Reading through this thread will reveal that is the usual response. Don't question things, just believe them as you are told.
Pretty much all true.
A question I've always had is, people who opposed kneeling for the anthem have never really suggested what would be acceptable to them. Do they not actually believe the issue the Kaepernick was kneeling for is true? I'm asking seriously
So, athletes shouldn't have a voice, unless it's a conservative voice? Serious question, would this be a thread if players were kneeling as an opposition to abortion?
Ty for strawmanning me and arguing against an argument I've never made. My point was that claiming that the concept of "freedom of speech" should be only exercised by one party and the other party should not be exercising that right because of some perceived disrespect or some supposed call of unprofessionalism is misguided and entitled. This doesn't change for any political position. (I'm independent btw). It is as much of a right for Ben Shapiro to go speak at University of Berkeley without SJWs going to interrupt his damn speech as it is for these football players to kneel without threats to have "those son of a bitches" fired.
To your other point, what is dividing this country is the loss of decency in political discourse and the strawmanning of opposing parties to contemptible positions. Liberals are supposedly "snowflakes" and "have a mental disorder". Conservatives are "racists" and "bigots". The kneeling and Trump are contributing, but I'm gonna say they are symptoms and not factors of causation.
The other day, for example, I posted on a facebook page on a liberal site that we should have "amnesty for DACA, but then strict enforcement of illegal immigration laws". I was immediately called a racist and told to check my privilege. And on the other side, I've been told to "go back to my country" or "to be thankful to white men for having the success that I currently have". This country has pretty much lost any sense of decency and thats where the divisions lie.
I mean it obviously varies from person to person. The thing is that even the argument of people who kneel is somewhat flawed. Look I'm a brown man and I have been racially profiled against, so I do understand what people are talking about with inequalities. But by protesting the flag, which is the symbol of freedom, and representative of what GIVES them the right to play football, and earn millions of dollars, and have such a huge influence over their country, does not seem the logical choice for protest. But yes, it is still their right to do so.
I have a deep respect for the military, and so I would obviously want to see these players, who so many kids look up to, respect the flag and country that we all live in. If they don't want to do it that is fine, but they loose my respect. For me it's not about race, because I KNOW there is inequality, its about acting like an adult in an age where many people are not.
I agree with that last part about decency, but saying that I'm strawmanning you doesn't answer why people can be hypocritical in their responses, and for some reason no one ever address that. Case in point you didn't address the question I raised about you criticizing people for criticizing other people.
Part of the decency issue is that people have become so offended at anything they don't agree with, that anything that is contrary to their beliefs is instantly wrong, racist, hurtful, whatever term you want to use. Like using the logic that it is their right to express themselves however they choose, can a white person decide they want to express themselves as an African-American, and claim to be black? Now you can't say that that is wrong because they have the right to express themselves as such. But that doesn't make sense because that person is now offending people who are actually genetically African-American.
My point is that these people create these loops of logic that are illogical, and then claim that anyone that disputes them is some hateful person. And the very act of claiming they are hateful is actually hateful itself.
So what's the end game? Just curious
Black folks have all the rights other Americans do, can't we just unify and move on?
Serious question what's the end game
We all learn to be decent. And stop acting like words or poses are a physical attack that need to be put down.
And we should put Americans first over identity politics.
A good question
An end game is to fix "the system", because although it is a good system and better than most places, it's flawed. Young kids are dying, nurses are being wrestled out of ERs, people are being killed at traffic stops, people are being shot reaching for wallets. The system is flawed. Swimmers are getting away with rape "as to not ruin his future".
These are only some of the reasons Colin Kaepernick took a knee.
You're correct, black people do have the same rights as everyone else, which is what we've been saying for years. It just needs to be exercised better. Those are my thoughts. Agree or disagree if you want. I won't hate you.
Hope it happens but telling grow ups how to act is a tall order
Ain't that the truth
I'm not sure how I can state this more clearly. Athletes should not be demonstrating their beliefs during sporting events. End of story. No exceptions. Doesn't matter if they are democratic, republican, liberal, conservative, or anywhere else on the spectrum. Doesn't matter. Let football be football. Let sports return to the refuge it used to be where politics was not welcome, a place where hard working average everyday Americans can escape from the world's problems for a few hours, drink a few beers, and hopefully enjoy a good game.
To answer your question. Yes. My whole premise is that players should protest on their own time and their own dime. Also, I would take their protests more seriously and believe they actually cared what they are protesting if they took action outside of a few seconds to disrespect our country.
The end game is liberal political power. The majority of the social justice and equality crap is simply a play to gain political power. Ya know, stir the pot and distract from real issues that actually effect Americans.
Or we can all be decent and quit strawmanning each other.
Twiggidy, you make some fair points and have kept your cool. Thanks for being professional. I am truly sorry that black folks are still feeling this way.
To the other poster who mentioned the need to drop his radio when pulled over, I get it. But, as a white guy, I'm more careful myself these days. I get pulled over and my hands are BOTH, visibly on the steering wheel. They don't move until he/she comes up on me with the lovely flashlight. I don't go digging around in my glove compartment. I wait for the cop to ask me, assess my otherwise normal (really!) behavior, determine I'm not intoxicated and non-threatening, and then I'll do exactly as he/she says.
The reason I do this is because I feel, IN GENERAL, that cops are a bit on edge. We have an armed populace, a relatively violent society (as compared to economic peers), and crazy things happen which they've all been trained and educated on. So, yes, they are probably a bit on edge. When pulled over, it's not the time to f.ck around. Do as they say, and act respectful. You don't fight City Hall.
As a side not, do you see how many people on a professional forum are leaning a bit farther to the right or even guys who suggest they've always been middle of the road politically, are voicing their disdain for the excessiveness of the Social Justice Warrior mantra we are being fed day in and day out? It's reached a fever pitch, and many like myself are sick and tired of it.
We are sick and tired of being labeled a "racist" (if you haven't noticed that is losing it's power rapidly), and told that our sons or daughters have some sort of "white privilege" for which...... What? For which what?? They "owe" something to some other race? What IS the end game???
Perhaps the end game is persecution and endless scapegoating??..... I don't know.
Really dont want that. I want to see a world where issues are addressed and divisions are torn apart. And the priority is to put Americans first.