NFL folded like a wet noodle over the protests

Discussion in 'Anesthesiology' started by Precedexed Out, Oct 1, 2017.

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  1. Precedexed Out

    Precedexed Out Banned Banned Account on Hold

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    Yes, nearly every police shooting could be avoided if the suspect would follow orders and avoid acting in a way that suggests violence. Attacking police isn't a good idea either. Is it asking too much to listen to police officers? Of all the common sense solutions, this is the most common sense and never talked about by liberals. Probably because it is an inconvenient truth and doesn't fit the "white racist" narrative.
     
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  3. WholeLottaGame7

    WholeLottaGame7 10+ Year Member

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    Right here.
    This is my question, also. Obviously Objective #1 has been accomplished, because it's now a national conversation. But what is Objective #2? Institutional racism isn't going to disappear overnight, or in our lifetime. Maybe ever. Are some people just never going to stand for the national anthem ever again? After awhile, the message will be lost/diluted and something else will have to be done.
     
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  4. Twiggidy

    Twiggidy ASA Member 2+ Year Member

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    Philando Castille and Tamir Rice may disagree with your logic.
     
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  5. Twiggidy

    Twiggidy ASA Member 2+ Year Member

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    no response needed
     
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  6. WholeLottaGame7

    WholeLottaGame7 10+ Year Member

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    Right here.
    I don't know how old you are, but you can't be that much younger than me. I also don't know how much or how long you've followed sports, but you come across as incredibly uninformed on sports history. Since when have sports ever been apolitical? The Olympics? Jackie Robinson? And how do you define protesting "on their own time?" When Gregg Popovich or Lebron James make political comments in interviews, is that on or off the clock?

    If owners or fan bases don't like the product, they can express their disapproval with their wallets. It's their right just as much as it's the athlete's right to protest as much as it's the owner's right to fire the employee for the protest. There are plenty of other activities for you if sports doesn't do it for you. Read a book, take a hike, volunteer at a homeless shelter.

    Part of the issue is that the players are starting to realize how much power they truly have. As others have pointed out, there's a reason people like Ray Lewis and Ben Roethlisberger get second chances. It's because they're the best at what they do. And Americans hate watching second-tier athletic events. Just look at at the MLS or WNBA. If Kaepernick was putting up Tom Brady numbers and championships, do you really think he'd be jobless just because he kneels during the national anthem?
     
  7. Twiggidy

    Twiggidy ASA Member 2+ Year Member

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    The message is already lost. Some player were literally on ESPN saying they'll kneel until Trump apologizes. The kneeling was never about Trump so the message is lost
     
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  8. Twiggidy

    Twiggidy ASA Member 2+ Year Member

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    That's an excellent point that I didn't even think about. I haven't seen an athlete make any political stance during an actual game. It's all pregame or postgame.
     
  9. GA8314

    GA8314 Regaining my sanity 2+ Year Member

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    I think most of us want the same thing. And, granted, kooky things at college campuses are nothing new, but things like THIS are happening with increasing frequency. At many universities, whites are the only ones without "safe spaces" to congregate and do who knows what. That, however, doesn't sound unifying to me. And these are the university systems in which people repeatedly claim some element of white racism. We are told that whites only can be racist because only whites have power. I'm not sure the kid in the trailer park would agree to that, however. And by the way, who makes this sh.t up anyway??

    Protests erupt over racism at Evergreen State College

    Weinstein apparently expressed his disapproval of the event, in which white people were invited to leave campus for a day

    Unifying.... Sure....

    On another thread, it was brought up that there is no such thing as white culture. Perhaps not in the past, but whites are being pushed into a greater cultural war in a sense. Some just don't realize it yet.

    In fact, in the past, telling an Irishman he had much in common with a Pole was sort of ridiculous. But, the more OTHER RACES have defined "whites", the more it pushes whites together as group evolutionary strategy will ultimately likely necessitate at this pace.

    Now, to be sure, Irish, Italians, Poles, Germans (Americans) have much in common. As defined by OTHERS. And so it will be.

    Indeed this is not very different from the way anti-Semitism has pushed Jews closer together. Objectively evaluating the huge diversity of politics, religion, values etc. within the Jewish community suggest that of all people Jews have very little in common (on the whole). But, enter persistent anti-Semitism and you have effectively a group capable of rallying behind their "identity" quite effectively.

    The same is going to happen to whites.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2017
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  10. Psych_hopeful

    Psych_hopeful

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    This explains the decency problem well
     
  11. 68PGunner

    68PGunner 5+ Year Member

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    Samuel Huntington predicted this low progression. I can't believe that the stuff I was assigned to read 10 years ago is unfolding before my very eyes.
     
  12. vector2

    vector2 ASA Member 10+ Year Member

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    Ahhh yes, the minority states (what should be) the plain fact that the majority, on average, enjoys some privilege and a lack of discrimination that they should perhaps be aware of (how many white dads need to have discussions with their teenage sons about showing overt deference to police even if they've done nothing wrong?), and the majority's immediate response is to form reactionary white ethnocentric organizations ala the 1930s even though POTUS, SCOTUS, Congress, and the bulk of governors are majority white. Makes perfect sense.
     
  13. vector2

    vector2 ASA Member 10+ Year Member

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    LOL, that was some pretty nice strawmanning there. Oh I'm certain it wasn't the case that her liberal friends made arguments that the policies she now supports are entirely regressive and instead all that came into her ears and into her brain was chants of 'racist, sexist, misogynist.' She pretty much lost me though with her dumbass argument about abortion somehow letting men off the hook and that giving women control of their own bodies and decisions somehow makes them less empowered.

    But if she thinks this diverse group in the picture below is the right one to be in charge of womens'/reproductive/maternity policy in any upcoming healthcare bills, I guess it's her prerogative

    [​IMG]
    All-male US health bill photo sparks anger
     
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  14. GA8314

    GA8314 Regaining my sanity 2+ Year Member

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    Probably way more than you think. And the fact that you need to distinguish between having done something wrong and showing deference "even if they've done nothing wrong" may be a big part of the reason which people of all colors become victims of police brutality.

    So, if you get pulled over "for doing nothing wrong", what other advice would you give your son or daughter other than to show respect, keep calm, do as told, and allow the situation to deescalate and the misunderstanding to clear up in a civil manner?? I don't think I'm alone in the assumptions that you just don't mess with the cops. Especially at night, when visibility is poor and they are on high alert......

    Most of us have encountered cops over our lifetimes who are keen on using their power and even force. But, one thing you don't do is escalate things when they have guns, cuffs, tasers, and back up. You just don't do that. And yes, we teach our kids this......

    In fact, when I get pulled over, I call them "sir" if they are a male. I just don't care. It disarms them by showing respect wether deserved or not. It disarms them a bit.
     
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  15. Precedexed Out

    Precedexed Out Banned Banned Account on Hold

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    There are exceptions, but as a general rule if individuals like Michael Brown would have done the right thing, they would still be alive today. He attacked officer Wilson and robbed a convenience store shortly before that. That doesn't fit the liberal narrative so most "news" organizations avoid discussing those details.
     
  16. Precedexed Out

    Precedexed Out Banned Banned Account on Hold

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    I'm not sure if you have read all my previous posts, but I agree with about everything you said. My main points are that it is disrespectful and the NFL is going to silently put an end to these protests and/or quit showing the national anthem. The league doesn't like these protests, they are bad for business. Protesting on ones own time means on your day off, after practice, or during the off season which is months long. None of these millionaires seem to allow themselves to be bothered by real world problems during these times. Interviews, fine, answer the reporters question, I have no problem with that. Again, I'm not saying you're not entitled to your political perspective, but disrespecting our military to get your point across is not the right way. Another reason for me questioning the sincerity of these athletes is because they have only vaguely defined what they are specifically protesting about and offer no solutions. If you're going to protest something, you should have solutions or be engaging in dialogue to come up with solutions. I have no idea what the goal is or what will satisfy these protests.
     
  17. Precedexed Out

    Precedexed Out Banned Banned Account on Hold

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    Who cares what race you are? Overt deference is what all individuals in a respectful society should do. Why do you think anyone should be disrespectful and difficult, even if you are innocent? If you're innocent, then you have nothing to hide and no reason to act out. As we know from the white cop shot black person events, most of these haven't been innocent, respectful, and do have a criminal record. Is it too much to ask to show respect to law enforcement?
     
  18. Precedexed Out

    Precedexed Out Banned Banned Account on Hold

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    Speaking truth!!
     
  19. glypha1104

    glypha1104 7+ Year Member

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    This thread again reinforces my belief about the necessity of the draft so that this pearl clutchy “think of the military” line of argumentation can be underécit.
     
  20. vector2

    vector2 ASA Member 10+ Year Member

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    I don't know if you're being obtuse but I said 'overt' deference. Nowhere did I suggest that one should go around being rude, disrespectful, or purposefully shady when pulled over. I'm sure a lot of white dads have a talk, which I would bet is more along the lines of saying don't be a dumbass or you might get booked....rather than get shot. Regardless of how polite a black person is, I would speculate dollars to donuts that in a simple moving violation he is more likely to be approached by an officer who has his sidearm unbuckled or drawn, and is more likely to be asked to step out of his vehicle and searched.

    One good example is how stop and frisk was implemented in nyc for the bulk of the time before 2013. If you were black or brown and living in the Bronx then you're getting busted for that dimebag. White and on Wall Street? That 8-ball in your pocket is safe.

    This is about subtle everyday violations of constitutional rights and making a certain group of people somehow lesser citizens. I think you are rational in your approach and make a good faith effort to have an honest discussion even though we have different points of view- I just wish some of the people clutching national anthem pearls over the supposed affront to our country could do the same.
     
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  21. GA8314

    GA8314 Regaining my sanity 2+ Year Member

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    To your first paragraph I think that the minority groups and others whom are having repeat problems with police brutality should look into some of the crime statistics not only for violent crime but also crime in those specific communities where police tend to be a bit more on edge. This does not mean I think it's at all acceptable or condone police brutality. I agree that work must be done on the part of police departments, but I also think there needs to be a tough look in the mirror on some of these issues.

    As for subtle violations, I'm not sure that's so much a racial issue as it is one of class and wealth. Don't tell me the black guy dressed in nice clothing (such as a suit and tie) and steps out of a Mercedes gets treated the same way as a poor black guy does in his beater car. The same applies to the poor white guy with long hair, a mustache, a tank top, and a beater car. He's treated differently, probably very predictably, by the same cops whom will also likely give deference to the white guy in a shirt and slacks driving his Cadilac.

    I'm not denying that there is racial prejudice coming from all sides in this country, even today. But, I really think the issue of predatory police has a lot more to do with "appearance", and that you can appear threatening by your body language, dress, and other things. It's not right, but I'll admit that cops are probably biased on these issues.

    In fact, I was treated much differently when pulled over (for speeding....) in my old Ford as I do my luxury vehicle I drive now. So, I'm not sure it's all this big racial conspiracy as you've determined. But, I'm also not going to deny we have work to do on the issues you describe.

    Like I've stated, these types of injustices bother me a lot. I hate them to be totally honest. I just think we need to be careful to blame race on them in their entirety.

    This is an area where I can see preferences to having the police force better reflect the population they are to serve. Perhaps subtle cultural nuances will not be misinterpreted as much as perhaps they are currently.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2017
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  22. Twiggidy

    Twiggidy ASA Member 2+ Year Member

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    Lovely conservative talking point:
    "Do what they say and you won't get shot"

    We do what they say and then get shot
    "Oh that's an exception"

    I'm not trying to be "the exception" like Philando Castille, which is why I don't own or carry a gun, but that means, my enjoyment of my 2nd amendment right isn't the same as someone else because of the possibility of being "the exception".
     
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  23. Precedexed Out

    Precedexed Out Banned Banned Account on Hold

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    Amen to all of that and I echo the bold part. I would add US citizens as the emphasis.
     
  24. Precedexed Out

    Precedexed Out Banned Banned Account on Hold

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    That should be common sense for all. Show some respect for the police. There are people out their who will try to hurt them (like Michael Brown) or kill them. My personal view is if you feel your life is imminently threatened, better a dead criminal/suspect, than a dead police officer. Police have to defend themselves so they can go home to their families just like we do. Sometimes the perception of the police officer's life being endangered is subjective after the event has occurred, but it is easy to forget that police are humans and the very short time that some of these decisions must be made. So again, EVERYONE should start with complying with their requests. There is a time and a place to pursue legal action if you feel you have been mistreated, but that time isn't during the encounter with the police officer. And don't do anything that would make the police officer even think about using their gun.
     
  25. Precedexed Out

    Precedexed Out Banned Banned Account on Hold

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    Most of your statements more likely pertain to the community where that police officer works rather than the suspect's race.
     
  26. RadOncDoc21

    RadOncDoc21 5+ Year Member

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    Fair points but you’re missing the fact that a black man can do everything you suggested and yet still more likely to get shot.
     
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  27. Precedexed Out

    Precedexed Out Banned Banned Account on Hold

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    I don't know of any sources that prove or disprove your point. Regardless, the incidence of police shootings would be much lower if what I described would occur.
     
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  28. RadOncDoc21

    RadOncDoc21 5+ Year Member

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  29. Precedexed Out

    Precedexed Out Banned Banned Account on Hold

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    Yes, seriously. And if a black man is more likely to be shot, how much more likely? The overall incidence of these shootings is very low (doesn't make the few that occur acceptable).

    At the same time, I'm puzzled by the lack of national attention at all the black murders in Chicago.
     
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  30. RadOncDoc21

    RadOncDoc21 5+ Year Member

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    More likely is more than enough... I could care less if it’s 1% vs 500%.

    Would more coverage of Chicago murders change racial profiling and socioeconomic disparities?
     
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  31. acidbase1

    acidbase1 5+ Year Member

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    No but a decreased in black crime would
     
  32. acidbase1

    acidbase1 5+ Year Member

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  33. RadOncDoc21

    RadOncDoc21 5+ Year Member

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    So a decrease in black crime in Chicago would end racism in this country...:eyebrow:!?
     
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  34. WholeLottaGame7

    WholeLottaGame7 10+ Year Member

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    Right here.
    I think this is a very important point. I think it's perfectly justifiable to complain about the quality of policing, but if you (community "you") think you can do better, then at some point the onus is on the community to step up to the plate. You can tell in several of these high profile police incidences that the police officer is extremely uncomfortable and/or out of their "element," which leads to some very poor decision-making.

    I would extrapolate this argument to medicine, as well. Affirmative action is far from perfect, but I think it's just as important for the medical force to reflect the population they are to serve as it is for police. Medicine (especially primary care) is far more nuanced than just knowing physiology and pharmacology.
     
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  35. acidbase1

    acidbase1 5+ Year Member

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    It would be a hellova good start. Every time they riot over xyz doesn't really help their cause either

    What you don't understand is these stereotypes aren't based on racism, rather a pattern of behavior
     
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  36. RadOncDoc21

    RadOncDoc21 5+ Year Member

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    Until that goes down, I guess we’ll just continue with the racism and social injustices. I like how you use “they” in your response. You don’t consider black people a part of your community?
     
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  37. RadOncDoc21

    RadOncDoc21 5+ Year Member

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    Racism is a part of our society and culture. It’s what got Trump elected and he used that hate and anger to fuel his supporters. The people who form his base could care less about an equal America and would rather see a divided country. The Russians used these tactics to their advantages and used Trump to make this country “very bad, big ocean, big water.”
     
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  38. glypha1104

    glypha1104 7+ Year Member

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    Let’s be real, pretty much NOTHING would be acceptable to most white Americans. Don’t believe me, just look at the abysmal polling data and public statements about MLK Jr. (America’s favorite racial talisman) from the sixties, before his image was made more palatable.
     
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  39. acidbase1

    acidbase1 5+ Year Member

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    This is such a miserably pointless thread. People trying to justify unacceptable behavior. I'm sure you guys will blame the rioting during Katrina on racism as well. At some point doesn't someone have to take accountability for their actions?

    No you'll blame guys like me
     
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  40. acidbase1

    acidbase1 5+ Year Member

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    I guess working hard to support your family and not breaking the law isn't acceptable lmao

    Definitely asking a lot
     
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  41. RadOncDoc21

    RadOncDoc21 5+ Year Member

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    Can we lump the Las Vegas shooter to all white men?
     
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  42. nimbus

    nimbus Member 10+ Year Member

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    The link says 2.8 times more likely.
     
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  43. nimbus

    nimbus Member 10+ Year Member

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  44. acidbase1

    acidbase1 5+ Year Member

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    You people are so incredibly brainwashed. It's scary you actually believe your own bs. I treat everyone I come across equally. I hold everyone to the same standard regardless of race. I've met some total losers who happen to be white. I've met superstars who are black.
     
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  45. acidbase1

    acidbase1 5+ Year Member

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    Apples and oranges

    When you find thousands of white guys shooting up a city I'll concur
     
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  46. acidbase1

    acidbase1 5+ Year Member

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  47. Twiggidy

    Twiggidy ASA Member 2+ Year Member

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    This confuses me. I can’t figure out why this grenade was thown in this thread.....i wont even bother to field my first guess
     
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  48. Twiggidy

    Twiggidy ASA Member 2+ Year Member

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  49. acidbase1

    acidbase1 5+ Year Member

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    You strike me as a very confused individual... not surprised
     
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  50. acidbase1

    acidbase1 5+ Year Member

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  51. Twiggidy

    Twiggidy ASA Member 2+ Year Member

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    given the content of this thread...yeah, i missed the sarcasm. I do channel Sheldon Cooper often
     

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