No assessment experience...discouraged

[affectiveH3art]

So the plan initially was to apply for internship this upcoming Fall (next cycle). However, I have no assessment experience and interested in Health psych (e.g. chronic pain, pain management). All the sites I have seen have some sort of minimal assessment hours.

Bear in mind, I live in a rural town so I do not have access to many assessment practicum sites (only 2 sites). One site requires previous assessment experience and the second I will be applying for the second time. The first time, it was difficult when my whole cohort plus the cohort ahead of me applied for the limited amount of positions.

In fact, I have been relocating across the country over the summers (paying rent on 2 places, paying all my bills, renting a vehicle for three months with No Income) just to get hospital experience at a pediatric burn unit. It has been a major pain and sacrifice to relocate over the summer, especially since I have 2 little ones. Everyone I speak to (advisors, clinical supervisors, etc.) said I should apply during the next cycle because I have one hospital experience and "excellent" work experience- I used to work as a surgical tech at a prestigious hospital and did other surgical experiences (gastroenterology, anesthesia assistant, etc.). But I do not think this is enough.

Just for some background- I am a 3rd year counseling phd Candidate (passed dissertation proposal recently + passed prelim last year) with 2 yrs. UCC practicum experience and 1 summer of hospital experience (pain management, procedural support). I will be relocating AGAIN for summer to do a longer prac experience at the same hospital burn unit and have been eagerly emailing around to see if I could do an assessment practicum experience in the same city. I've completed the majority of all my academic courses (2 more classes to go), doing great with my dissertation, have great relationships with supervisors and extremely eager to gain assessment experiences. If I waited a year I may or may not get the assessment experience but I would be completely done with collecting data, analyzing and probably completed my dissertation final defense (if I continue at this rate).

Any suggestions on what could be something that would help? That is, apart from getting assessment experience which is my goal (has been for past 2 years). Is it advisable that I hold off on applying in order to seek the possibility of assessment pracs? Or toss the hospital setting idea and go the UCC route (egh!).

Any feedback would be helpful!

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[deleted343839]

You don't have any assessment hours? I'm curious why no one has provided more guidance for you to get these experiences. I think a conversation with your training director is in order.

For what it's worth, I matched to a medical center-based internship with a fairly low number of assessment hours. I didn't do an assessment-focused practicum, but I had some testing cases resulting in integrated reports, as required by my program, and I picked up a few other testing cases sporadically in practicum placements. Even if you don't foresee yourself doing a lot of assessment, it's worthwhile to get this experience during your training.

 

[affectiveH3art]

I agree that gaining assessment experience is very important. Unfortunately this is one of the reasons why our program is on a 5 year phase out and we barely got by with APA accreditation.

 

[DynamicDidactic]

Lets think about this more holistically, you are interested in a health psych (e.g. chronic pain, pain management) internship. What experience do you have that will convince the internship site that you are qualified for the position and likely to use that training in your future careers? A summer practicum isn't a lot. What about your research? Letter writers? Class work?

There are few absolutes when applying to internships and assessment hours are important However, one area of weakness can be overlooked if other related areas are strong.

Two years of UCC practica says a lot.

 

[Marissa4usa]

I agree that you need to talk to your DCT. But besides that, with assessment hours being difficult to come by, how about asking around at some local private providers who do assessments if they would be willing to supervise you? Arguably, private practice hours are not the most impressive, but at the end of the day assessment hours are assessment hours.

 

[erg923]

Your DCT is asleep at the wheel. This is a basic, hallmark, competency of clinical training in this field. How can your program even be APA accredited if this is happening? I would go to the source of the problem to rectify it-Your program.

As an aside, I'm not sure why you seem to be blaming your rural community for this. Its not their job to train you. Its your program's job to train you, right?

 

[affectiveH3art]

Marissa, yes that's what I am doing via summer only and hope that will give me "some" experience to be competitive for an assessment prac.

Erg, you do have a point and its up to me to make these experiences happen. That's why I spent 10,000$ of my own to relocate over summer to do a summer practicum and now choosing to relocate a second summer. We are in a predicament with APA for these reasons exactly and that's one of many why the university is closing our program.

 

[affectiveH3art]

Dynamic- so would getting minimal assessment and being a very strong candidate in other areas be reasonable? I believe I would have strong letters, have great support, only 1 B in all my classes and all As on my transcript, plus dissertation is related (IBS related pain) to my interest. So far, I've been given positive comments of my clinical strengths which may give me a little more buy in next semester for possible assessment experience if my supervisor allows. I just need to see what else I can do to find more experiences.

As for my DCT, she's aware of the limitations in the area but states that we are free to find assessment experience in other cities. Students often do this and drive 2 hours away after they do all the leg work.

 

[WisNeuro]

As DD said, a very strong application in other areas will help offset this. This is very site specific. For example, some of the flag ship VA's will not consider the application. Minimal assessment combined with no VA experience can be a death sentence there. So, in the end, it depends on what kinds of sites you are applying to. As a side note to others, this is why it is especially important to get the scoop on what practicum's look like at the programs you are applying to.

 

[Marissa4usa]

Since we're already discussing this, by the time one applies for internship, what types of assessment should one have experience with to be competitive?

I'm currently doing a prac and my supervisor likes me to administer a standard battery of the WAIS, IVA+, Rorschach (I know, I know...) plus MCMI, and MMPI. She'd probably be open to some other tests if they were to be helpful for internship applications but I don't know which ones they would be. Any suggestions?

 

[erg923]

Since we're already discussing this, by the time one applies for internship, what types of assessment should one have experience with to be competitive?

I'm currently doing a prac and my supervisor likes me to administer a standard battery of the WAIS, IVA+, Rorschach (I know, I know...) plus MCMI, and MMPI. She'd probably be open to some other tests if they were to be helpful for internship applications but I don't know which ones they would be. Any suggestions?

Assessment should be tailored to patient needs, and ideally to what is medically necessary (I know, I know) to answer the clinical questions that are of concern.

That said, I would see if she will let you get some experience with the PAI (in substitute for the MMPI) in some cases. Does she ever have a need for achievement testing (WJ-III, WIAT)? Experience with symptoms/performance validity testing would also be helpful, especially for VAs or forensic settings internships

I also encourage all students not to only conceptualize assessment in terms of testing. Practice with the SCID I think facilitates good clinical interviewing skills and habits and helps familiarize one with DSM criteria sets. And how bout the CAPS and/or SADS?

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Dynamic- so would getting minimal assessment and being a very strong candidate in other areas be reasonable?

I reviewed for a generalist track APA-acred internship VA consortium, and a lack of assessment hours would be a red flag for me. Assessment is a cornerstone of training, which includes utilizing formal psych measures.

As for my DCT, she's aware of the limitations in the area but states that we are free to find assessment experience in other cities. Students often do this and drive 2 hours away after they do all the leg work.

That's unacceptable. That is the kind of thing that can hurt training and should be addressed ASAP.

 

[erg923]

I reviewed for a generalist track APA-acred internship, and a lack of assessment hours would be a red flag for me. Assessment is a cornerstone of training, which includes utilizing formal psych measures.


That's unacceptable. That is the kind of thing that can hurt training and should be addressed ASAP.

Yea, that's some bull**** right there. An abrogation of a training program's duty/responsibility. I dont see how that would even debatable should that statement be posed to her. Do you have a graduate student council or at least a graduate student liaison between the grad student and faculty?

 

[affectiveH3art]

Getting adequate assessment experience has been one issue of concern for our program. Students have filed complaints for years however little to nothing is being done. In all honesty I think it's bull as well but I have to work with what I have. Erg if you have any feedback I'd appreciate it- at this point I'm past leaving the program since I'm too far into the program.

 

[DynamicDidactic]

Dynamic- so would getting minimal assessment and being a very strong candidate in other areas be reasonable? I believe I would have strong letters, have great support, only 1 B in all my classes and all As on my transcript, plus dissertation is related (IBS related pain) to my interest. So far, I've been given positive comments of my clinical strengths which may give me a little more buy in next semester for possible assessment experience if my supervisor allows. I just need to see what else I can do to find more experiences.

I think part of my post is being misunderstood. I agree with T4C and erg, they are right on the money. I am adding a caveat to their statements. Basically, if you had little assessment experience in health psych settings, that weakness could be overlooked - at some internship - if you had strong health psych clinical experience, health psych research, health psych classwork, and health psych letter writers who can speak toward your aptitude as a future health psychologist.

For example, I went to a generalist AMC internship. My internship cohortmates had almost zilch assessment experience, which would generally be a poison pill for many sites. But they were able to balance that disadvantage with strong research output, some specialized clinical training, and a brand name program.

So, the question for you is can you balance your lack of assessment hours with other relevant experience? It sounds like a summer practicum, despite the hurdles you jumped through to make it happen, would not be enough. Answer these questions:
Have you taken a lot of health psych classes?
Is your research area health psych related?
Have you published health psych related articles?
Will your letter writers be health psychologists?

 

[affectiveH3art]

Have you taken a lot of health psych classes?
Is your research area health psych related?
Have you published health psych related articles?
Will your letter writers be health psychologists?

Thanks DD - I think keeping these questions in mind are what I was looking for. In regards to health psych classes, my program offers only 1, do you believe attending relevant conferences would help supplement this? I have no published articles just posters related to chronic pain, substance use, cognitive psych stuff, and dissertation (which is health psych related). Letter writers will be health psychologists.

Mind you a summer practicum is minimal experience, maybe selling that I did a large amount of hours there is the point. I was physically present for 40 hours, receiving 70 clinical hours a month which is almost as much as I receive in one semester at the UCC (70-120 a semester). I will be going back this summer and receive a large portion of hours as well.

This is helpful, thanks everyone.

 

[CheetahGirl]

I would put off internship one-year and find an externship placement in a Medical setting (w/ the caveat that you need to do as many assessments as possible -which may yield 1 or 2 full or partial batteries. Then, when applying to internships next round, you can honestly say you've 'done diligence' and health psych is your professional focus having worked where you worked during your initial training (i.e., UCC, child sites, community health sites, etc.). Then you can unequivocally say health psych internship sites have become your desired match b/c you know what to expect and you want more of the same. And you could turn a negative into positive by stating that coming in with limited assessment hours, you were hoping internship would offer you as much experience as possible in this area. That's how I would strategize this situation if it were me.

 

[Ollie123]

Its definitely a big problem and a red flag if someone has literally zero assessment experience, but it sounds like you are taking steps to mitigate that. If you can get some pubs out in health psych between now and internship app deadline I would make it a point to do so (given health psych is more prevalent in settings that also emphasize research - AMCs and VAs). I imagine zero pubs is also not going to do you any favors - either that or no assessment experience alone might be easier to overcome but both is an even bigger problem.

I guess its worth talking to your DCT about to see if there are any other avenues available. If they are phasing out the program though, it sounds like they are at some level aware that they can't provide adequate training. I doubt things like speaking to a grad student council will achieve much - if they are ending the program they clearly have insight, its just unfortunate for current students!

All that said, one thing going for you is that health tends to emphasize formal assessment a little less than other areas (in part due to the nature of it). Rapid diagnostic interviewing is vastly more relevant for a health psychologist than how many WAIS's you have given. Doesn't make it okay, but I'd much rather hear you are going into health than neuro (or even a generalist track).

All that said - keep doing what you are doing. Find a way to get experience ASAP no matter what. Even if not a lot. See if a licensed faculty member will supervise you doing some testing with ongoing patients at your practicum (if you don't have a supervisor there who will do it). See what other opportunities around the university might exist. We had a disability services office that our psych clinic offered free psychoed testing through - so there may be ways to get creative about it. If you are going to a major city, its hard to believe there won't be SOME practicum assessment opportunities. I'm normally a pretty staunch advocate that quality > quantity but at your stage I think it may make sense to sacrifice the former just to have SOMETHING. Heck, see if you can be a volunteer psychometrician for a local neuropsychologist, anything.

Given the amount that you are spending moving to another city for a few months...I don't know that I would hold off on applying. Putting aside the bruised ego piece, you aren't actually hurt by NOT matching in a year you aren't expecting to do so. Apply only to sites you genuinely want to attend and plan to apply again next year. Personally, I'd risk the few hundred dollars in application costs for the potential to save 10 grand in expenses. Obviously do your own cost-benefit analysis, but I'd throw my hat in the ring if you can get everything else aligned. Of course, I also acknowledge that I've submitted enough papers and grants at this point to have rendered myself completely devoid of any sensitivity to rejection.

 

[affectiveH3art]

Thanks Cheetah & Ollie, that gives me a little more perspective on what I could do. I think it is worth another year of pursuing more experiences but I do have to weigh out the expense of doing so. It's unfortunate that I have to work my a$$ off for bare minimum but if that is what is needed- then that is what has to be done. The benefit of not applying for this upcoming cycle is that I am sure I will finish collecting all my dissertation data and doing my final defense. The sad part of all of this is that I *really* want assessment experience because it is an interest and not just to satisfy a requirement.

I feel like I am doing everything other than selling an organ on the black market in order to get the experiences I want. I wonder if it is worth it to apply to a few sites this cycle with the anticipation of not matching. The downside is if I am not exceptionally excited for a site and match then I would be obligated and may not have a great experience.

 

[smalltownpsych]

Flabbergasted that a program would neglect such a central component of competency as a psychologist. It was a requirement for our program to have a certain number of batteries. Good luck with getting some more experience with assessment and hopefully it is enou to get to internship at which point, they should have you doing assessments too. I think I did like ten during my internship and that was without a testing focused rotation like neuro or forensics.

 

[00851341032]

I also have zero assessment experience and am concerned because I can't find a way to get any before I apply to internship. I've been trying hard but my program is not helping me and keeps assigning me to practica that don't offer it. I can to this thread hoping to find reassurance but you guys are just scaring me more

 

[WisNeuro]

I also have zero assessment experience and am concerned because I can't find a way to get any before I apply to internship. I've been trying hard but my program is not helping me and keeps assigning me to practica that don't offer it. I can to this thread hoping to find reassurance but you guys are just scaring me more

Depends on where you apply, but many places will have a minimum hours needed in assessment. In many of the VA's, and all of the ones I have been at, we will not consider applicants without assessment experience. This is something that is required by programs to teach you in grad school if they are accredited.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Agreed with WisNeuro--my slightly-informed opinion is that having no assessment experience is likely to throw up red flags at most internship sites. As internship supervisors, we're ok with meeting a student where they are RE: prior experiences, but if there's an absolute lack of experience in an area, a site is going to be hesitant to take on that training responsibility. After all, by an internship site signing off on a student's completion paperwork, they're essentially saying that they believe the student to be ready to independently practice as a psychologist. But if someone has zero assessment experience, a year may not be enough time to get them adequately trained up.

If you've done your best to try and secure assessment experiences but they aren't providing any, then this falls on your program, not you. Which isn't necessarily helpful, I know, so all I can say in that regard is to just keep looking for opportunities to bolster your experience. Even just a handful of assessment cases would be much better than none.

 

[affectiveH3art]

I agree- no assessment hours reflects some limitations in training. But my program is closing and we are quite limited in that regard. I have secured a summer practicum that's purely assessment and hoping for an acceptance on a year long experience. 008513- you can PM me if you have any questions. I literally am relocating to another state and established my sites (horrible paperwork). Out of curiosity for those who interview possible interns, would this look good on a CV? Does getting varied experience in another state reflect ambition or something along those lines?


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app

 

[deleted343839]

I literally am relocating to another state and established my sites (horrible paperwork). Out of curiosity for those who interview possible interns, would this look good on a CV? Does getting varied experience in another state reflect ambition or something along those lines?

I'm so sorry you have to go through all that trouble for training that your program should have provided. In the context of your training program I think it shows commitment on your part. Taking it upon yourself to fill in the gaps may not necessarily win you bonus points in an applicant pool, but you'll still be better off than if you just threw up your hands and hoped for the best.

 

[temppsych123]

I did a summer practicum in a state 1000 miles from my school (experience closely tied to my research interests that wasn't available locally, plus my then boyfriend now husband was living there - bonus!). I don't recall receiving any questions on internship interviews about why I interned there versus any place locally; interviewers just seemed happy I had a breadth of experience generally, and weren't concerned about whether or not the site was local or more distant. I can't say if it overall helped, hurt, or had no impact on my applications, but I did match to a great site, so I can't imagine putting in the effort to do a long-distance practicum would hurt you in any way...can't say if it helps, though.

 

[Kadhir]

I literally am relocating to another state and established my sites (horrible paperwork). Out of curiosity for those who interview possible interns, would this look good on a CV? Does getting varied experience in another state reflect ambition or something along those lines?

I can't say if it overall helped, hurt, or had no impact on my applications, but I did match to a great site, so I can't imagine putting in the effort to do a long-distance practicum would hurt you in any way...can't say if it helps, though.

I did exactly this. At least in my case, it definitely helped, hands down; I got direct feedback about this from interviewers.