No kids?

I am young, only a freshman in college but I am sure that I want to have kids. Some times I am worried being a doctor will take over my family life, but lots of others manage.

You said, "We could then have more fun and time for each other...time being in short supply during med school and residency."

What else would be more fun then watching your own children grow up? Taking them to little league, playing with them, watching them grow up. If anything kids will probably bring a husband and wife closer together. Time might be short during medschool and residency but what about the rest of your life?

 

"You don't need children to recreate that 'wonder' and amazement in life....not if you have a perfect person. I just don't think that there is anything that a child could give me, that I don't already have."

Yes, I will agree that people do not have to have children to be happy. Many of the most interesting people I have met never got married or had children.
However, with that said, I simply can't resist questioning your statement. To be very cliche: "Don't knock it, 'till you've tried it!" There is something so indescribably magical and intoxicating about holding your child for the first time. As far as "wonder and amazement" are concerned, I now experience both on an hourly basis...from things as simple as my son discovering his belly button, or learning the word "blue". Keep in mind too that the love for a child is so very different than the love for a spouse (even a perfect spouse

) that you simply cannot compare the two. No, the loving bond between parent and child is not necessary for a wonderful, exciting, fulfilling life, but now that I am a parent, I can't imagine MY life being wonderful, exciting, or fulfilling without it.

 

I am neither a spouse nor a partner, but your topic caught my eye. It is my opinion, feel free to disagree, that one's entire purpose in life is to have children. A life without kids would be fruitless and depressing to me. Having said that, I have no intention of raising a brewd. I think I will stop at two children...perhaps one.

 

I personally want to have my husband's offspring. I feel children are a blessing of the Love that is shared between two individuals. Yes, parenting is a responsibility; however, it is not to the point you don't enjoy your spouse or get to spend time with him/her. Yes, you have to re-adjust your priorities because going shopping is not all about what you want to buy for yourself anymore, but rather what you need to buy for the family. If that is something you don't want to deal with than either you don't have children now, rather have them later, or you don't have them at all. It's good to think about these things.

My husband & I were very spontaneous back when we were dating & the early part of our marriage. With children though most things are planned now! But as we get older & mature, we (referring to my husband & I) want more of a plan, than spontaneity. It's hard to described to single, dating adults what it's like to be married. And it is the same with talking to people who are married, but who have not had children. The feeling you get holding this perfect little being and molding your children to become something wonderful and being a "soulmate" for another someone special out there is both challenging & rewarding!!! I take great joy in raising my boys. I think they will be quite a catch one day! LOL I appreciate what k's mom said about the magic of holding a child & how love for our children is different than the love for our spouse. That is sooo true! Also, I cannot begin to tell you how (I believe) your Love will grow with your husband with a child who looks like you and acts like your husband or acts like you and looks like your husband. To see yourself in a child & to be able to have the opportunity to make a difference in a child's life as Mommy & Daddy, I just can't think of any experience ever that can even come close to comparing. That is one experience I would not want to leave this world not having!!

As far as wanting those special times after the kids come!!! Hey, my husband is truly my best friend, and I make time for my best friend. I either get family, friends, or hired babysitter to come and watch our kids while we go and have a good time with one another. The fun does not stop once you have children, actually it gets more interesting & exciting, I think!!! You thought you were sneaky when you were growing up...haha... wait to you have kids... then you really get sneaky!!! LOL

Good Luck with your decision! Choose what's best for you though!

Christy

 

I could NOT resist not commenting regarding this subject. I am now a father of a 7 month old beautiful baby girl. The joy she brings to my life is immesurable. When I go to work, I couldn't wait to come home and see her again. As someone already pointed out, there is no more joy than witnessing a very tiny baby grow-up. Changing her diper, feeding her, cleaning her clothes by hand, watching her taking her socks off and bringing them [socks] to her mouth, watching her learn to sit up and fall back, listening to her musical sounds at night until she falls a sleep,are all blessings.

However, she also brings a lot of responsibilies to me and my wife.

Children are gifts from God. If we have them, of course, we are delighted. But if we do not have them (because we can't), it is okay to too. We can still be joyful, because, God is the ultimate source of joy.

If we can't have children, adoption is good. There are many tiny ones with no one to raise them.

But when people choose not to have kids, because they don't beleive they will be happy, I call them "self-absorbed"

I hope we are not self-absorbed people.

Good luck.

 

Hi,

This is a very personal decision that you have to make, as I am sure you know. I can speak from my experience. My husband is in med school and we have a 3 1/2 year old, and one on the way..due in 2 months. Like many of the posters said, there is something indescribable about holding your own child. I in no way feel that I lack in anything. When my husband is finished with med school and practicing I think we will be secure enough to be able to travel, go on vacations, both alone and with our children. I can't imagine our life without kids...it is a big reponsibility, so I would in no way knock someone that chose not to have children...but would defintely say you are missing out on one of life's larger blessings and surprises. Good luck with your decision.

 

I am a fourth year female medical student who is matching into OB/GYN. My husband and I are not having children. We have been married for 10 years and have been together for 14 years. I have never wanted children and I discussed this with him before we ever married. My advice to anyone is to listen to your heart. You know if you are suppose to have children. Children are not for everyone. Do not listen to anyone who calls you "self-absorbed" for choosing not to have kids for whatever reason. These people are incredibly judgemental and are in no position to offer advice. In my opinion, we were not put on this earth to have children. We were put on this earth to serve and love God. You can do this with or without children. Everyone must make up their own minds on this matter, but I will NEVER regret my decision to not have children.

 

Rebecca,

I think that it takes a lot of courage to say that you aren't ready right now for children...that you want to spend time with each other/for each other and I don't think that is selfish at all. In many ways, I DO wish that my husband and I had had more together time before embarking on our family....you are young, and you still have time...

Whatever you do, don't make a "final" decision...why not just say that for now you are choosing to spend time together....

Having a baby (we have three) is truly an incredible gift and they bring much joy...but children are a huge responsibility and it can be difficult to carve out couple time. I love my children dearly and wouldn't trade them for anything...

But if you two want to have time for yourselves right now as you begin your med school journey to further strengthen your love and commitment to each other...Heck...I call that being responsible...

You will make good parents some day...when you are both ready!!!

Best Wishes!

Kris

 

This is a great topic, something that has really been on my mind lately. It may seem rather ridiculous since I am very single (nursing a rather badly broken heart at the moment) and only 25, but I am almost thinking of not going to med school because I want children soooo badly. I have always been one of those people who thought that I could do it ALL and be some sort of superwoman. But I don't know if you can without things suffering somewhere. I am trying to figure out what is more important to me. What is going to make ME happy? I have spent so much of my life trying to make everyone around me happy and that managed to keep me pretty miserable. On one hand I can be a very independant person, and I know that I could make a very good physician. On the other hand I think I could be happy having a family that is my biggest priority while having a career in nursing or something. I can't quite describe the feelings I have while holding babies lately. I think the most peaceful feeling in the world is having a child fall asleep in your arms. I was with a friend recently who has two children and her sister has four. We were talking about how busy the sister with four kids is and the other one said, "In some ways I envy her though. She has those four little people who love her soooo much, and four little people who call her 'mommy'". I want that. Oh and before I get jumped on for not understanding the reality of children, I have experience as a nanny for infants. I was the primary caretaker for one little girl for the first few months of her life starting when she came home from the hospital. I know all about no sleep, diapers, puke and all the other child issues. I know that they are hard work. I know that it is possible to be a physician and have a family. I have a mother who is living for grandchildren right now, and she would gladly turn caring for my children into her full-time job. But I am not sure that I wan't someone else to be the primary caretaker of my children. I want to do it.
Of course we always come back to the fact that I am so very single. Why worry so much about starting a family if there is no one to start it with. And of course I am so cynical at this point that I don't know that there exists a man who is capable of loving me forever.
So anyhow, I totally understand that some people want children while others don't. Some people are complete without them while others, like me, have that aching feeling in their gut.

Oh, one other thing is the feedback I have gotten from other people. Some people who don't even know me very well, they see me with a baby in my arms and they comment, "You are going to be an incredible mom some day." They say that they can see the compassion in my eyes.

Sorry if I have rambled... I have just been thinking about this a lot lately.

Bee

 

You guys have already given a lot of great feedback and I don't know how much I can add...I agree with your thoughts on children, Wifty, and am facing the same predicament (my sig other and I are both med students) but here's my 2 cents about kids in med school.

There are a couple people in my class (one woman, one man) who have children, and they both seem happier, more balanced, and more relaxed in med school life...they find so much joy in their children, it's truly awesome to see. I think the key is that they both have unusually supportive partners who devote themselves fulltime to caring for the children and for their med student partner when he/she comes home and needs a hot meal. It's so wonderful that their spouses do this, and it seems to me that raising kids in med school would be extremely stressful otherwise. I don't know too much about you & your hubby as I don't usually follow this forum, but it seems like you will be the one who's life will be affected the most by children, and if you're willing and able to meet the challenge, more power to you!

I would like to have children, but I can already see the arguments between me and my future spouse about which of us is going to sacrifice our medical career to raise the children, and even if we do work out a balance, our already limited time together will be even less. It's a hard decision.

Good luck!

penelope

 

Well, regarding the ORIGINAL post, the only question I am qualified to answer is if we have any regrets about having children (just had the fourth on Tuesday - beautiful little girl, easy labor and delivery). So, do my husband or I have any regrets? Oddly enough, we have discussed this because we are considered wildly unconventional compared to others in the "educated" society. We started having our children at 20 (right after we got married). We had a boy and then several years later had twin girls and now several years after that we have our new daughter. We're going to wait until residency training is over before deciding if we will have any more children (after all we'll only be in our early 30s at that point). In our conversations on the subject we have noticed how incredibly unpopular our choices are for those among my husband's colleagues. He gets barraged with comments ranging from wondering why anyone would have any children (let alone four) given the financial strains of med school/residency to how much of a cramp having kids "must" put on our/his social life. Then there are the occasional politically correct and uninformed comments about "overpopulation" of the earth we receive. Anyway, so with all of this incredible pressure we have in our society to not have children and instead focus on ourselves throughout our lives we have discussed the issue of "do we have any regrets". The resounding answer from BOTH of us (and let me say perhaps most emphatically from my sweet husband) is NO! We don't regret the time, the way, the reasons, or any other factors relating to our having these wonderful people. In fact, having had children, if we were to suddenly not have children we would seriously regret THAT. Although that is a bit of a moot, impossible point because those who don't have children don't know what they're missing and thus cannot really appreciate any regrets in the department of choosing childlessness. So, to sum it all up, the only question in the original post that I can answer is if we had any regrets with having our children (particularly during medical training) and the answer is no.

Jennifer

 

radspouse-
Thank you for your post, and congratulations on your little girl! How wonderful!
I left you a post the night you apparently went into labor, but here is the gist of it:
Can you get into specifics about how you and husband made it through financially? I have called the fin. aid. office where my husband will be going, but they are not interested in talking to me about an adjustment in COA until he matriculates. Um...a little late as far as I'm concerned!
Specifically, were you able to get realistic increases in COA? If you worked for a wage outside the home, how was maternity leave (loss of income) handled as far as the school was concerned? What about health insurance for yourself and your kids?
Thank you so much for any input you can give

 

How did we survive financially during medical school? We jumped through hoops, got really creative, had some wonderful luck and lived on a wing and a prayer so to speak. Actually, here's the breakdown of our financial history: my husband was accepted to medical school a few months after I found out I was pregnant with our first child. At that time we were both undergrads and worked in addition to having full scholarships (which luckily included living stipends). We did great with him being a pizza boy (and later as a computer consultant) and me working in a vet clinic. After I got pregnant we decided together that I would stay at home with the kids while they were young (ie at least until the last one got to be school-aged) and that we would do whatever was necessary to accomplish this goal- period (we are nothing if not tenacious people ). So, the spring before medical school began I sat down with the packet the financial aid office gave us and figured out our budget and compared that to the maximum amount that my husband qualifed for every year of medical school (and, it was a different amount every year based upon the school's schedule - nine months of class the first year, etc and other factors). The result was we were going to be a few hundred dollars short every month. Not a very heartening thing! I spoke to the financial aid office and they were adamant that everyone gets the same amount of aid - period - family circumstances were NOT considered. My husband could only get a bit extra money for child care if he filled out a form stating that someone took care of his children and how much it cost to feed, clothe, etc his kids. He got the form for this and looked at it. It was a form that basically stated if you had kids and someone cared for them, the student could get an additional stipend for their care. So, we (being tenacious people ) filled out the form with me being the caregiver and turned it in (we answered everything entirely honestly and according to the form qualified for childcare aid). Shortly thereafter my husband got a call from the office saying they had changed the rules on this to specify that only those who didn't have spouses or who had spouses who worked outside of the home could qualify for money for their children in their financial aid package. So, in other words we would only get extra money in his package if I was earning an income and we'd only get it in order to pay for strangers to watch our children! I'll stop there because I could go on quite a tirade on that incident alone.

OK, continuing: here's where the luck comes into play. My husband's grandmother died and as luck would have it left him a trust fund to be used for his education. Woohoo! Who knew he had rich relatives, right? Well, actually she wasn't rich - she just was very concerned her grandchildren all get good educations. As luck would have it, trust funds are NOT factored in with expected sources of family aid/income and thus his trust fund had no negative impact on his financial aid package.

Well, trust funds from kind grandmothers go only so far - our butts were saved for a while with that but only a while. Before medical school began we sat down with these numbers and my husband came to a decision he had been mulling for a while: he would take a military medical scholarship. Now, this is a big decision and one that shouldn't be taken lightly, but my husband's dad was an air force officer and he felt very comfortable with the give and take nature of the scholarship. This added a small monthly income to our bank account that really made a difference (in addition to reducing our debt to almost nothing). We still applied for financial aid, though because we needed all the money we qualified for after the military scholarship was taken into account.

Next thing: medical insurance. That was our boogy man during those years. We made sure we had constant medical coverage of one form or another and it is a good thing we did: Our son had three neurosurgeries during those years and I had a high risk pregnancy (with the twins) and our daughters spent two weeks in the NICU after birth. All told our medical bills over those years would've added up to HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of dollars without medical coverage. We could never have predicted these events, but luckily we were prepared for them. So, the first thing we did was look at the school's insurance policy. It stunk - big time! So, we opted for COBRA coverage through my husband's last employer. This allows you to pay for continued coverage at the rate the company paid for it for a set amount of time (24 months if I remember correctly) after you have left the company. This got us through the first couple of years. After that we had so many medical problems with our son that we couldn't get coverage for him due to pre-existing conditions. At that point I was also starting my high-risk pregnancy - not a good position to be in and we were worried! It turns out that we easily qualifed for Medicaid and promptly applied for it. That got us through the rest of medical school. Do I feel bad about taking this route? NO! Our taxes in future years will EASILY make up for any taxpayers' money we used for our medical expenses. It is something to look into and I know that most of the families of medical students we knew were on Medicaid (at least their children were).

Finally:
1)we lived off a budget that was "the law" - not fun but we survived and survival is the key here
2)we were fortunate to have parents who sent their grandchildren gifts of clothes on occasion
3)we managed to buy a house rather than rent in the beginning. The difference? $1200-$1600 a month for a three bedroom apt where we lived vs. our $600 a month mortgage on our three bedroom townhome. (We chose an adjustable rate mortgage since we knew we'd sell within just a couple of years).
4)We avoided credit card debt as much as we could. Admittedly we could've done better in this dept but we made a concerted effort to keep this high-interest, dangerous debt very low and we paid it off as soon as possible. In addition, we did NOT get any new credit cards during medical school (or since then).
5)We paid our tithing religiously (pun intended). Now, this is a matter of faith and ten percent of your income when your income is pretty much nothing isn't much anyway, but for us this has always been very important and we believe it has made all the difference in our survival. But, as I said, that is a matter of faith.

So, that is all the stuff I could think of at the moment. Was it easy? Nope, it was harder than heck but it is a temporary situation and you just have to go into it with a survivalist mentality in order to, well, survive! I hope that helped in any way!
Jennifer

 

Hey Jennifer....I was wondering...will the military pay for your moving expenses when you all move on to the radiology portion? Did they pay the moving expenses for you for your IM year? I know that moving expenses were a big deal for us...though we did U-Haul it for a couple of moves....

It sounds like you guys really set about putting together a plan and executing it...some friends of ours during residency also lost a beloved aunt...it was sad, but they inherited enough to pay off a large portion of their debt, buy another car and some furniture...and even put some in savings......It was bittersweet for them though, as I'm sure it was for you and Jon.....

Honestly, I don't think that we would have had near the financial difficulties if we hadn't made the two international moves...that is what really hurt us and set us up for debt issues...that and the interviewing for fellowships, etc....we sure made a lot of mistakes in the beginning. I wish we had been as together as you two were and done some better planning..it would have made a difference....I'm really impressed with how well you all managed it all.

Kris

 

If the move is due to a change of orders, then, yes, the military will pay for the move. So, since we moved for his first year (the IM year) and he officially had orders for that the military paid. When we move next year it will also be officially a change of location on orders and thus, the military will pay. Thank goodness! Moving is soooooo expensive. We had friends who moved two thousand miles for residency and had to pay about two thousand dollars for the move (and these people are way tighter with their money than we are!). I cannot imagine the costs of an international move!

Jon was upset about the death of his grandmother - she was a wonderful woman and dearly loved her grandkids. We made sure that we put the money she left him towards good use with his education and thanked her generosity every step of the way! As an aside, we've decided the education trust fund thing was such a great idea (and, done correctly, has lots of safeguards against misuse or frivolous use of the money) that we will probably do the same for our descendants some day.

Anyway, I know a number of medical students who had children and a spouse who stayed at home (nope - they weren't all women - there was a stay-at-home dad in the group) who managed to survive financially (actually not one of them didn't survive ). They all had different strategies and had their own plans to get through those four years. There are a bunch of strategies and every family seems to come up with their own. No one was comfy financially, but we managed to feed and clothe our children and came out of it with some pretty good habits!

 

Wow...that is AWESOME that they will pay for your move...seriously....when we moved to Northern Ireland it cost us about 2000, but when we moved to the US it was about 3000...and we didn't take much with us...which caused another expense....buying furniture (used of course!!!) and pots/pan, and a CAR when we got to the US...we couldn't afford to take our car from the UK..and the stearing wheel was on the wrong side anyway

You are right though..we all survive..and what doesn't kill us makes us stronger, right!! <img src="graemlins/laughy.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughy]" />

 

radspouse and momofthree-
I cannot thank you enough for your info and insight. Medical bills are a big concern for us...I also had a high-risk pregnancy; pre-term labor, hospitalization, bedrest...you know the drill. A NICU stay for our son as well, plus the fact that he has been diagnosed with a chronic form of anemia. Infact, his pediatrician and hematologist strongly recommend that he NOT be in daycare outside of the home (depressed immune system). (We had to have him in full-time care for his first 9 months and it was horrible...sick every two weeks, with $200.00 in doctor's bills each time and missed work..and salary...for me.) Unfortunately, COBRA is a bad idea for us because our current insurance is HORRIBLE. Thank you so much for the insight into Medicade. I would have never thought of that! And by the way, there is no need to ever justify your use of a federal or state aid program...you (and your husband) are working hard to provide for your children and maintain a strong marriage. That speaks for itself.
We are hoping for a service commitment program in primary care. This fits perfectly for us because my husband's goal has always been to practicein a medically underserved area. Our fingers are crossed for the NHSC program. If not, we should be able to at least secure a loan-repayment option.

How difficult was it to qualify for a mortgage? If we were to stay here in Tucson we would definitely get a condo or townhouse (nice 3 bedrooms run around $50,000), but I assumed that with no "income" anywhere else it would be next to impossible.
Thank you again. Although the news isn't great, it is good to have more information to work with.

 

Kristen,

I just changed my little message at the bottom of my posts to "What doesn't kill me makes me stronger". And then I clicked on this thread and read your post above! <img src="graemlins/laughy.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughy]" /> <img src="graemlins/laughy.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughy]" /> <img src="graemlins/laughy.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughy]" /> I have to tell you I LIVE by that mantra!!!

Jennifer

 

k's mom: we managed to qualify for a mortgage of $69,000 with about 10% down on an adjustable rate mortgage in a suburb of Dallas. We got the house based upon my husband's income from the year before he started medical school (hint: get the house right before he quits so you have the income to put down on your mortgage application). We used saved money to make the down payment (which is a hard thing to come up with). Believe me, for the years we owned that house we really, really saved a bunch of money that would've gone towards rent. We didn't really build up much equity at all in the house but the point for us was to save 30-50% on housing expenses every month! Make sure the home that you purchase (should you buy one) is in very good condition because you will not have the funds during medical school to do more than pay the mortgage (ie make sure your water heater, etc have excellent warranties and that there are no major problems - no "fixer-uppers"). I would recommend calling a few mortgage companies and speaking to loan officers about different mortgage options based upon your CURRENT income.

Jennifer

 

Post-residency, we were able to get a mortgage with 100% financing (ie no closing costs or money down)because we have "potential". We have a very high interest rate though because of our debt load and we have a two year balloon, with refinancing contingent on our ability to reduce our debt (cross your fingers...maybe we should have Jennifer come up with a plan for us )

There are some good place to check out, but there is an excellent bank called Wachovia that provides special loans with good financing options to physicians. Unfortunately, they weren't qualified in MN at the time, so we weren't able to use them, but have several friends that have and are very satisfied. I believe that you can check out their website at wachovia.com To find out about physician loans though you'll need to call to get the particular dept.

Many loans do require a minimum of 5% down and there are closing costs as well as costs for home inspections, etc....

How close are you guys to buying?

Kris