No more psychology-psychiatry debates

[purpledoc]

---

Members do not see this ad.

As some people might have noticed 🙂 I love a good fight. However, the purpose of this forum is degenerating as more and more threads are started by brand new users showing up just to provoke more debates on psychology vs. psychiatry.

I don't have the power to delete new threads (though I wish I did), but I'm going to play my small part here by simply refusing to contribute to them, so that they drop down into insignificance on the forum. I'm also not going to contribute to any new threads started on the topic in the psychology forum.

In the mean time, the rest of us can continue to answer questions about applying to programs, interesting cases, living without sleep, various forms of treatment, and so on.

Peace,
Purpledoc

 

[gaki]

i think psychology-psychiatry threads are useful. sure a lot of them turn into petty little b*tchslapping but i have gotten some useful info from the responses (even from you, purpledoc) that don't turn into something ugly (the ugly usually coming from the meds debate).

 

[Svas]

i think psychology-psychiatry threads are useful. sure a lot of them turn into petty little b*tchslapping but i have gotten some useful info from the responses (even from you, purpledoc) that don't turn into something ugly (the ugly usually coming from the meds debate).

I agree that they are very productive. We can't possibly learn to work together unless there is some continued communication. Perhaps this isn't the venue, but I do hope the discussion continues.

Svas

 

[dentite001]

I agree that they are very productive. We can't possibly learn to work together unless there is some continued communication. Perhaps this isn't the venue, but I do hope the discussion continues.

Svas

Looks like a post intended to stop the psychologist-psychiatry debate has ironically turned into another one. No it hasn't, yes it has ....

 

[Svas]

Looks like a post intended to stop the psychologist-psychiatry debate has ironically turned into another one. No it hasn't, yes it has ....

Sort of like the Monty Python little shop of arguments.

Svas

 

[Dr. Gasmo]

what is the deal with psychology and psychiatry anyway. Psychology would so kick psychiatry's ass in a fight... FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT!

 

[Allotheria]

LOL, I don't think psychology would kick psychiatry's ass. Each profession just has a different concentration aspect to it. I feel psychology is devoted to the "talking cure" and seeing the patient for 45-50 minutes versus psychiatry's devotion to medication and the 15-30 minute session. Each one receives better training in their specific areas; psychologists are trained to be better therapists while psychiatrists are trained better with the medication aspects. I honestly don't see what the problem is with psychologist's prescription as long as they HAVE TRAINING AND CONSTANT SUPERVISION. Do I think they should see extreme psych cases and prescribe cocktails no… wait I'm getting off topic… I think the bottom line is that each profession is better at what it does, meds vs. therapy, why can't we all just get along?

 

[JattMed]

Stop fighting! Or Jesus wont come back!

 

[gzaky]

Psychiatrist can fight Psychologist prescription rights all they want but THEY can not stop the train that has already left the station. TWO STATES HAVE PASSED BILLS ALLOWING PSYCHOLOGISTS TO PRESCRIBE SUBSEQUENT TO A PSYCHOPHARMACOLOGY MASTERS AND OTHERS WILL FOLLOW, HOPEFULLY, FLORIDA IS NEXT.

PSYCHIATRISTS EXPRESS CONCERN REGARDING THE PATIENT WHILE RELUCTANCE TO MENTION THEIR GREATER CONCERN FOR THEIR ECONOMIC JEOPERDY. RESEARCH HAS SHOWN THAT PROPERLY TRAINED PSYCHOLOGISTS WITH THE DOD HAVE BEEN VERY SUCESSFUL IN PRESCRIBING WITH OUT JEPORDIZING THE PATIENTS SAFETY. SO I TRULY BELIVE THAT PSYCHAIATRISTS ARGUMENT IS TRULY REGARDING ECONOMIC THERET AND NOT ENTIRLEY FOR PATIENT SAFTEY.

PSYCHATRISTS SHOULD WORK JOINTLY WITH PSYCHILOGISTS INTERSTED IN PURSUING RxP TO BETTER EQUIP THEM FOR BEST PATIENT CARE

 

[PublicHealth]

Psychiatrist can fight Psychologist prescription rights all they want but THEY can not stop the train that has already left the station. TWO STATES HAVE PASSED BILLS ALLOWING PSYCHOLOGISTS TO PRESCRIBE SUBSEQUENT TO A PSYCHOPHARMACOLOGY MASTERS AND OTHERS WILL FOLLOW, HOPEFULLY, FLORIDA IS NEXT.

PSYCHIATRISTS EXPRESS CONCERN REGARDING THE PATIENT WHILE RELUCTANCE TO MENTION THEIR GREATER CONCERN FOR THEIR ECONOMIC JEOPERDY. RESEARCH HAS SHOWN THAT PROPERLY TRAINED PSYCHOLOGISTS WITH THE DOD HAVE BEEN VERY SUCESSFUL IN PRESCRIBING WITH OUT JEPORDIZING THE PATIENTS SAFETY. SO I TRULY BELIVE THAT PSYCHAIATRISTS ARGUMENT IS TRULY REGARDING ECONOMIC THERET AND NOT ENTIRLEY FOR PATIENT SAFTEY.

PSYCHATRISTS SHOULD WORK JOINTLY WITH PSYCHILOGISTS INTERSTED IN PURSUING RxP TO BETTER EQUIP THEM FOR BEST PATIENT CARE

Some advice:

(1) Learn how to spell or use spell check. Spelling "psychologist," "psychiatrist," "jeopardizing," "successful," "threat," "entirely," "believe," "safety," and "interested" correctly should be prerequisites for admission to postdoctoral training programs in clinical psychopharmacology. You only reinforce your immaturity by misspelling more than 25% of what you post.

(2) Stop using caps. You can make a point using lowercase letters.

 

[Anasazi23]

Psychiatrist can fight Psychologist prescription rights all they want but THEY can not stop the train that has already left the station. TWO STATES HAVE PASSED BILLS ALLOWING PSYCHOLOGISTS TO PRESCRIBE SUBSEQUENT TO A PSYCHOPHARMACOLOGY MASTERS AND OTHERS WILL FOLLOW, HOPEFULLY, FLORIDA IS NEXT.

PSYCHIATRISTS EXPRESS CONCERN REGARDING THE PATIENT WHILE RELUCTANCE TO MENTION THEIR GREATER CONCERN FOR THEIR ECONOMIC JEOPERDY. RESEARCH HAS SHOWN THAT PROPERLY TRAINED PSYCHOLOGISTS WITH THE DOD HAVE BEEN VERY SUCESSFUL IN PRESCRIBING WITH OUT JEPORDIZING THE PATIENTS SAFETY. SO I TRULY BELIVE THAT PSYCHAIATRISTS ARGUMENT IS TRULY REGARDING ECONOMIC THERET AND NOT ENTIRLEY FOR PATIENT SAFTEY.

PSYCHATRISTS SHOULD WORK JOINTLY WITH PSYCHILOGISTS INTERSTED IN PURSUING RxP TO BETTER EQUIP THEM FOR BEST PATIENT CARE

Fantastic Points!

I'll forward this eloquently and fabulously-stated treatise to the American Psychiatric Association immediately. I'm sure they'll be persuaded by these arguments!

People wonder why we're worried.

I'm interested in how you completed a neurology residency during your master's in education degree program. Where did you complete your year of medicine? Or are you doing it concomitantly in your first year of doctoral studies? (see profile)

The moderator should erase this *****ic duplicate (psychology forum) post.

 

[PublicHealth]

Fantastic Points!

I'll forward this eloquently and fabulously-stated treatise to the American Psychiatric Association immediately. I'm sure they'll be persuaded by these arguments!

People wonder why we're worried.

Notwithstanding gzaky's poor spelling, "your people" certainly are worried about psychologist RxP according to two letters to the editor in the most recent Psychiatric News:

http://pn.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/39/17/40

http://pn.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/39/17/39-a

From Assad Meymandi, M.D., Ph.D.
Raleigh, N.C.

"I submit that psychiatry is in crisis. Having psychologists write prescriptions is not an economic issue. It is a travesty and a breach of trust, and I suggest that we, the nation's psychiatrists, are responsible for the breach. Let me explain: As psychiatrists, since the days of Benjamin Rush, and later Pinel and Dorothea Dix, we have been given every chance to repair the deterioriating conditions of patients' access to needed care. There was a glimpse of hope in the early 1960s with leadership coming from President John F. Kennedy? and not from the ranks of psychiatrists? in the form of community psychiatry. We failed to do the right things back then. And we failed to make care and access available to citizens. Now that the system is finding an alternative way, as unethical, unacceptable, and outrageous as it may be, it is really society's validation that psychiatry as a profession has failed. Two states have passed laws allowing psychologists to write prescriptions. If the domino theory has its way, the other 48 states will follow. It is a matter of time!" (Psychiatric News, 2004, 39, p. 40)

I have a feeling that these worries are well-founded and will continue to affect psychiatrists. If psychologists gaining RxP didn't "worry" you so much, why are you on these forums fiercely defending against psychologist RxP? You obviously have a stake in this, as it affects your professional and financial future. "Your APA" seriously needs to step up its efforts in fighting psychologist RxP. God knows Dr. Riba's cheerleading isn't going to do much.

 

[Anasazi23]

The APA has been successful for the better part of a two decades in stopping this push. I haven't seen one person post the results of these success for the APA that are JUST as accessible on the APA website. Yes, people are worried. Not for the profession per se, but for the damage that will occur to the field's reputation by having less qualified people blurring the lines between the practicing - especially by people that can hardly put a coherent sentence together such as the aforementioned poster.

I assure you, my financial stake will not be ruined by mid-level practitioners gaining prescription privilages. I will offer the highest standard of care for psychiatric patients when I graduate and intend to bill myself that way. I don't see people in the field of general medicine or anesthesia up at night worried about PAs and others who can prescribe destroying their specialties. Look up average salaries for these fields in the past 5 years.

Psychiatrists are medical doctors that specialize in psychiatry. Psychologists are not medical doctors. If you think that a prescribing psychologist can do and know through their practice all that a psychiatrist does, you don't know much about the field of psychiatry at all. A letter to the editor, (I think I'd be hard pressed to find an opposing opinion letter in the Monitor) which says psychiatry has "failed" because a fringe health care provider group has gained rx privilages in two states is nothing short of ridiculous. Did ophthalmology "fail" because optomotrists can prescribe in some areas? Did anesthesia "fail" because nurse anesthetists can practice in some states? Did general medicine "fail" because PAs can practice independently in other states? None of these specialties "failed." The healthcare system has changed - most, including psychologists, would say for the worst.

You say that this will "continue to affect psychiatrists." I can tell you that I haven't seen one psychiatrist yet change their thinking about their patients or become worried about their profession. They're secure in their skills, treat a lot of sick patients, and are very busy people that find solace in their ability to be comprehensive medical/psychiatric doctors to their patients. This overloaded blowhard speech that psychiatrists are greedy non-medical practitioners are either having exposure to the worst every time, or are perpetuating a stereotype that existed in their own eyes. They simply see it as a sad lowering of the standard of care for psychiatric patients. That's not me talking, that's them - including in the articles of the posts you mentioned.

This is the second or third uninformative, unnecessarily inflammative and poorly written post toward psychiatry of this nature in the last few days. It's not unreasonable to take offense to it in a psychiatry forum. I think that a similar post in the psychology forum would (and should) be met with equal detest.

 

[50960]

I agree with you anasazi, and your post was very well written...thanks. We must remember that this forum is for students and students by definition are not experienced clinicians so things like this happen. Most psychologists I know like and respect psychiatrists and vice versa, but this takes experience and knowledge of each other's training and expertise to come to fruition. I am an RxP trained clinical psychologist, with alot of clinical experience in both inpatient and outpatient medical settings. I see all that goes into (work, monitoring, liability) every medication order a physician makes; it is no small undertaking at its simplest. Dx, and appropriate medical rull-outs are whole, more complex issue. Psychologists with training will be prescribing, but they NEED to be properly trained! If I could prescribe tomorrow, I would likely not. I prefer the 1:1 discussions that happen between myself and the MD's I work with, and the mutual respect we have. Would I order a lab here or there, or alter a dose in the absence of the MD?? Probably, but it just works best when all hands are on deck. 😎

 

[gzaky]

Fantastic Points!

I'll forward this eloquently and fabulously-stated treatise to the American Psychiatric Association immediately. I'm sure they'll be persuaded by these arguments!

People wonder why we're worried.

I'm interested in how you completed a neurology residency during your master's in education degree program. Where did you complete your year of medicine? Or are you doing it concomitantly in your first year of doctoral studies? (see profile)



I hope that I did not offend everyone by my poor spelling since my spell checker apparently did not function as intended. However, I think you missed the point that I was making. Perhaps you should have placed more focus on the topic at hand instead of focusing on my poor spelling. Apparently this topic caused you to become defensive and hostile perhaps you see the truth in my opinion.

Additionally, what evidence do you have that concludes that poor spelling will have any effect on an individual's abilities as a clinician or as a prescriber.

No, I did not fulfill the following ?I'm interested in how you completed a neurology residency during your master's in education degree program. Where did you complete your year of medicine? Or are you doing it concomitantly in your first year of doctoral studies??

But perhaps I should ask you what are your qualifications in providing counseling or psychotherapy to your patients as a psychiatrist? Or do you just intend to push pills and not worry about any other psychological issues that are most likely contributing to his/her psychiatric issues? Did you complete a 3 yr. Masters program to be an effective therapist? Or maybe you will get that training in your 6 year doctoral program that focus on therapy, assessments/evaluations, etc.

Perhaps you should act as a professional in your responses so that people might perceive you as such!

 

[Anasazi23]

I hope that I did not offend everyone by my poor spelling since my spell checker apparently did not function as intended. However, I think you missed the point that I was making. Perhaps you should have placed more focus on the topic at hand instead of focusing on my poor spelling. Apparently this topic caused you to become defensive and hostile perhaps you see the truth in my opinion.

It's not your spelling that upsets me, it's the fact that you didn't take 5 minutes to look on the psychiatry forum to see the 20+ page thread that beat this topic to death, whilst double posting a non-informative opinion on the subject in said forum anyway.

Additionally, what evidence do you have that concludes that poor spelling will have any effect on an individual's abilities as a clinician or as a prescriber.

I do suspect that horrible spelling may in some way affect you as a clinician in the professional world....frankly, it looks amateurish.

No, I did not fulfill the following ?I'm interested in how you completed a neurology residency during your master's in education degree program. Where did you complete your year of medicine? Or are you doing it concomitantly in your first year of doctoral studies??

Then why is it in your profile?

But perhaps I should ask you what are your qualifications in providing counseling or psychotherapy to your patients as a psychiatrist? Or do you just intend to push pills and not worry about any other psychological issues that are most likely contributing to his/her psychiatric issues? Did you complete a 3 yr. Masters program to be an effective therapist? Or maybe you will get that training in your 6 year doctoral program that focus on therapy, assessments/evaluations, etc.

Nope, just a two-years Masters. But even if I didn't do that, and contrary to what appears to be most lay people's and many psychologists' beliefs, psychiatrists take formal classes and undergo supervised training in psychotherapy throughout their four years of residency training....so not to worry.

Perhaps you should act as a professional in your responses so that people might perceive you as such!

Righto!!! I'll get right on it.