No Officer Training? What happens?

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spacemanspiff17

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Hello all,

I am applying for both Army and Air Force HPSP programs. I will be attending a year round medical school and am too late in the process to get in on this summer's officer training programs. I was told that I would have to do the officer training after residency for the army, possibly it could be waived though. I'm not sure what the Air Force will do. I was curious if anyone had any experience or knowledge about what this means for the future and if it will affect my residency placement. Thanks!

spacemanspiff17

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Hello all,

I am applying for both Army and Air Force HPSP programs. I will be attending a year round medical school and am too late in the process to get in on this summer's officer training programs. I was told that I would have to do the officer training after residency for the army, possibly it could be waived though. I'm not sure what the Air Force will do. I was curious if anyone had any experience or knowledge about what this means for the future and if it will affect my residency placement. Thanks!

spacemanspiff17

I am pretty sure MD's in this situation (Army) do OBLC after residency. I know of one who is doing that this summer--just finished general surgery residency at DDEAMC, and is going to Ft. Sam en route to her next duty station, Ft. Riley. Also, it is not waivable in the Army--at least not if you plan on getting promoted to MAJ.
 
I have a friend who is being promoted to LTC in the army medical corps. He didn't go to OBC or CCC, but instead received "constructive credit" for both. I wouldn't worry about it too much. I wouldn't go after residency...what a waste of time.
 
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My understanding is that recent policy (at least in the Army and Navy) has been to send people to officer training at their first available opportunity, be it after med school or after residency. Could be wrong, just a rumor I've heard. But in this case, in the Navy anyway, you'd just be one of the dozens of people who go before internship (like me).

Do you have time between graduating school and the start of internship to attend OBC and move?
 
Heh, I actually had a pretty good time during my COT training. The tough part is staying awake after you've been run around the compound at 5 AM, fed breakfast and then put into a big lecture hall from 9AM to 12AM. Also you'll miss out on the opportunity to wear short-shorts and expose your hairy pale upper thighs to an unbelieving public without shame for the first week.

Aside from that I still enjoy my memories of being appointed the marching drill leader and then trying to herd my crew of highly intelligent physicians and soon-to-be physicians into marching with a coordinated rhythm and getting everyone to turn the same direction at the same time. High comedy - it was like herding cats, and everyone was actually trying their best.

Other than that, don't remember much.
 
What about if you were on ROTC scholarship in college and did the ROTC summer cruisers? Do you still need to do the COT/OIS?
 
What about if you were on ROTC scholarship in college and did the ROTC summer cruisers? Do you still need to do the COT/OIS?


I think you still have to do it from what I have read...but you can always file for constructive credit.

I completed OBC in a non-medical branch in 2004, deployed twice, and have served in a few leadership positions while I was on active duty...so if I take HPSP, I fully intend to apply for constructive credit...or just blow off the OBC thing somehow until I am a Major (should happen at the end of residency for me) and then have them say it is too late. The problem is I need to find something to fill my 45-day ADT during that first year in place of OBC. Any suggestions?


There is a little info on it in this thread at the end

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=304545
 
Yes, you can get school orders two years in a row. You might have to provide some paperwork stating why you can't do OBC that first summer (showing them that you've taken another OBC recently should work), but after that, there shouldn't be an issue.
 
Hello all,

I will be attending a year round medical school and am too late in the process to get in on this summer's officer training programs. I was told that I would have to do the officer training after residency for the army, possibly it could be waived though. I'm not sure what the Air Force will do. I was curious if anyone had any experience or knowledge about what this means for the future and if it will affect my residency placement. Thanks!

spacemanspiff17

For the Navy (HPSP), I was never required to complete OIS throughout med school, residency or fellowship. I will however be needing to complete the full 5 week course prior to starting AD payback. I have mixed feelings about this at this point in my career...I probably should have completed it during medical school. Oh well.. I have never done OIS but still got full residency and fellowship civilian deferments.

In response to some other statements about school orders...

I did school orders 3 out of 4 years. No negative repercussions.
 
Army will have you take it prior to starting your new assignment after residency. Previously they had offered constructive credit but at least this April there was not a board convened (per Lavone Jolly, the current contact person) as the Army was considering doing away with the option and requiring all to take OBC (even if prior service, West Point, etc).
 
Army will have you take it prior to starting your new assignment after residency. Previously they had offered constructive credit but at least this April there was not a board convened (per Lavone Jolly, the current contact person) as the Army was considering doing away with the option and requiring all to take OBC (even if prior service, West Point, etc).

It is only 6 weeks...and I'll be damned if I take any leadership position while I am there...I will kick back and enjoy the silliness of it all if I must. But...it doesn't shock me at all if I am forced to do it again.

On that note, are you evaluated while there? Does it play into the army match at all? (if it does...maybe coasting through it isn't the best thing :)
 
At Navy ODS, all the LTs in my division were forced to "interview" for Division Officer. The girl who got it didn't want it. If you're a CPT when you go to OBC, wouldn't suprise me if you got "voluntold" to a leadership position . . .

I wouldn't doubt it either. But...I was told that even though I am a CPT (0-3) now...in the IRR, I would still have to wear my 0-1 rank during my ADT. No doubt they would pull my ORB or something prior to me getting there...oh well, we will see what happen if I end up going.
 
I wouldn't doubt it either. But...I was told that even though I am a CPT (0-3) now...in the IRR, I would still have to wear my 0-1 rank during my ADT. No doubt they would pull my ORB or something prior to me getting there...oh well, we will see what happen if I end up going.

If you have prior commissioned service, why do you have to go at all?
 
If you have prior commissioned service, why do you have to go at all?

Excellent question, one that my recruiter was not sure how to answer...and thus said I would have to go to OBC again, since it was non-AMEDD the first time around.

Good new is that I spoke with the civilian in DC who handles all of the army accessions into HPSP and USUHS, and she said all I need is proof that I attended OBC previously (course certificate, DD214, ORB, course eval...whatever) and I would not have to attend again.

Awesome!
 
Does anyone know if HPSP can attend the 4-week course offered to AMEDD Reserves that the national guard and reserve officers do? I might be able to fit that in place of one of my electives.

If I don't attend that, does anyone have a suggestion on how I can get around having to attend some lengthy course? I know this sounds lame, but I am not interested in using 2 elective months to attend the training when there are areas of medicine I would like to experience to increase my general competency.
 
I have a friend who is being promoted to LTC in the army medical corps. He didn't go to OBC or CCC, but instead received "constructive credit" for both. I wouldn't worry about it too much. I wouldn't go after residency...what a waste of time.

I was in a similar situation as the OP was. You can apply for CCC after you have finished one year of "residency", i.e., after your PGY-2 year. Whenever I went through the motions of getting signatures, the DCCS of my hospital refused to sign it, he noted back, "I think everybody needs to go to OBC". I submitted the paperwork and it was approved anyways, fortunately. But I only bring this up to point out that I would not count on getting CCC, they are getting strict about this now which I might add I feel is ridiculous. By the time you are a PGY-3, you've been to OBC, wear a uniform daily, and had to participate in the Military Unique Curriculum as an intern which taught you things like what the difference between a brigade and division is, etc. etc.
 
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