1. Dismiss Notice
  2. Download free Tapatalk for iPhone or Tapatalk for Android for your phone and follow the SDN forums with push notifications.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
Visit Interview Feedback to view and submit interview information.

No research = kiss of death?

Discussion in 'Pre-Medical - MD' started by miabullitt, Aug 19, 2011.

  1. miabullitt

    Joined:
    May 26, 2010
    Messages:
    88
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Pre-Medical
    I have I'm applying early 2013 but until then I'm taking 15 credits including summer, working 40 hours a week (by necessity), and volunteering 3 hours a week leaving no time to do research. Am I doomed? or can my work time commitment be seen as a decent reason for not researching?

    Non-science major and Non-health related job.

    Thanks in advance
     
  2. Note: SDN Members do not see this ad.

  3. Morsetlis

    Morsetlis I wish I were a dentist
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2010
    Messages:
    4,925
    Likes Received:
    40
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    Clinical experience is much more important than research. You do want to show SOME scientific interest, usually by a few months of research that goes nowhere during your sophomore year.

    However, actual research experience / publication are only really required for top-tier research institutions (think UC's, etc.) The private institutions and DO schools... not so much.
     
  4. raltima07

    2+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2011
    Messages:
    2,805
    Likes Received:
    1
    Status:
    Pre-Medical
    Research will never hurt you
     
  5. ilubse7en

    2+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2009
    Messages:
    170
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Pre-Medical
    i also have a question on research, i am applying this year, and i am also starting research next week, would that help me in med school app in any way? alot of the sec app ask whether i have research experience, so i told them i am starting research soon, would that be good enough??
     
  6. V5RED

    V5RED MS-1
    Lifetime Donor Classifieds Approved 7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2011
    Messages:
    1,128
    Likes Received:
    311
    MDApps:
    Status:
    Medical Student
    Do you mean you are taking 15 credits in the school year and 15 credits in the summer, or did you mean you are taking 15 credits during the school year and some summer classes?

    Honestly, you could probably find a lab at your school to get a summer of research in if it is the latter.
     
  7. macsta

    2+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2011
    Messages:
    471
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Pre-Medical
    Having no research will not necessarily hurt you, but make you less appealing than other similar candidates. There are thousands of applicants with similar stats like you WITH research experience.
     
  8. aSagacious

    Moderator Emeritus 7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2010
    Messages:
    8,141
    Likes Received:
    59
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    You stated this pretty matter-of-factly for a claim that actually falls somewhere between controversial and simply false. I can think of a good number of middle-of-the-road schools where your application is dead in the water if you don't have much research (MCW, Va Tech, Kentucky, etc). The school needn't be ranked top 20 to hold research as a high priority.

    OP, I agree that you should find a way to squeeze in some meaningful research (however long that takes) before applying.
     
  9. Electronegative

    2+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2010
    Messages:
    674
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Pre-Medical
    Yep you're doomed, might as well go nursing now....
     
  10. Morsetlis

    Morsetlis I wish I were a dentist
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2010
    Messages:
    4,925
    Likes Received:
    40
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    Every institution has their own guidelines. You can "think" of a good number of schools, but are you on those schools' adcoms? Have you analysed and aggregated honest data from those schools' applicants, both successful and unsuccessful?

    I've watched the trends on SDN here for 3 years and a good many number of candidates without meaningful research experience made it to medical school. The key is to have a great overall app and good, basic stats.

    Also, I did recommend doing some kind of research. You also have to keep in mind the TIME commitment that meaningful research requires. "Some kind of research" will probably not be meaningful... but even that might not be possible if the other areas of the applicant's application are not up to par. It is MUCH more worthwhile to obtain CLINICAL experience over research, given a limited amount of resources (time).
     
  11. Entadus

    Entadus Happy on 5-HT
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2008
    Messages:
    1,710
    Likes Received:
    970
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    QFT.

    Understand that not every medical student will engage in research. Not every pre-med dreams of a research career. Not every physician will conduct formal "research".

    Many will. Are you one of them?

    Personally, I have not had formal research experience up to this point. :thumbup:
     
  12. organdonor

    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Messages:
    863
    Likes Received:
    178
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    I had absolutely 0 zip zilch nada research experience. I'm not interested in doing it so why pretend? I worked in a hospital to pay my bills so I had plenty of clinical experience. I was a double major in a science and a language.

    I got accepted to the only school I applied to early decision.

    This is one thing the US News rankings are actually good for*. They rank schools based on research funding, so a logical conclusion would be that schools at the top of the US News list in terms of research funding would be less interested in a prospective student with little to no research.

    *Note: I think this is pretty much the only useful thing for that list
     
  13. 0919mmk

    5+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2009
    Messages:
    947
    Likes Received:
    24
    Status:
    Medical Student
    Just look at the MSAR - most schools' incoming class have 70-80% with research experience. That means that at all of these schools, 20-30% of students have no research experience going in. Don't sweat it. Unless you are ultra pre-med gunner. Then sweat it.
     
  14. V5RED

    V5RED MS-1
    Lifetime Donor Classifieds Approved 7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2011
    Messages:
    1,128
    Likes Received:
    311
    MDApps:
    Status:
    Medical Student
    Another way to look at those numbers is that you have gone from competing for 100% of the available spots to competing for 20-30% of the available spots by neglecting research.
     
  15. ModusProbandi

    2+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2011
    Messages:
    269
    Likes Received:
    0
    Research is incredibly overrated. They want you to conduct research, it brings in the grants, the money that is used to fund the schools. About one third of grant money goes to administration and overhead. I do research but I find it very impersonal. You don't grow as a person, learn of anyone else's cultural lens or become more humble and aware of the human condition. You don't learn how to deal with people and the deep communication issues that cause havoc in another person's life, you don't see how poverty can be cyclical, you don't go beyond the cage of the undergraduate institution, insulated and unrealistic, and you don't personally make a life changing difference for someone else. Do something where you will, it'll enhance your character and, I'm sure you're interest in this, help you write great essays for supplementaries.
     
  16. macsta

    2+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2011
    Messages:
    471
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Pre-Medical
    You should probably find a different place to research...
     
  17. AllDay24

    AllDay24 Veteran Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2010
    Messages:
    463
    Likes Received:
    17
    Status:
    Medical Student
    Get a research job and work 40 hrs/wk. Money in the bank. An hour of research is easier than an hour of other labor too.
     
  18. gettheleadout

    Moderator Emeritus 7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2010
    Messages:
    11,815
    Likes Received:
    2,779
    Status:
    Medical Student
    What is your problem? Scientific pursuit for the joy of the possible advancement of society is still an honorable intention, you know.
     
  19. Entadus

    Entadus Happy on 5-HT
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2008
    Messages:
    1,710
    Likes Received:
    970
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    uh, not really. :thumbdown: there's no logic to that.
     
  20. Morsetlis

    Morsetlis I wish I were a dentist
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2010
    Messages:
    4,925
    Likes Received:
    40
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    There is a logic to that, but the orator forgot the fact that, by narrowing the population, you also change the subject's fitness within that population.

    For example, if 10% of the population is left-handed, then 10% of pre-med applicants are left-handed. If you are left-handed, you only have to compete with 10% of the potential applicants, because presumably adcoms do not select for handedness at all, so 10% of the incoming med school class is left-handed!

    Your fitness for selection has not changed because, within the 10% of the population that is left-handed, you would presume that handedness does not correlate with or cause fitness to become a medical student.

    However, if you decide not to do research and want to be in the 25% of people who got admitted to these specific medical schools (school profiles do differ), then you have to compete amongst those 25% of the total accepted population, which presumably does not vary appreciably year-to-year.

    Within those 25% of people who did NOT do research and DID get accepted, we should assume that they made up for it in other areas, provided the school DOES consider research as a criteria (if it did not, then the percentage of people who got accepted who did research would match the percentage of people who applied who did research, and obviously not 75% of applicants did research). THEREFORE, there is a different profile for the matriculants who did not do research as compared to the total matriculant population.

    That is to say, to be one of the matriculants who did NOT do research, your EC's, GPA, MCAT, etc need to be better in general compared to competing with all the matriculants.

    If you find anything wrong with my logic, tell me, because I only took Statistics for Nurses :cool:
     
  21. tn4596

    5+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2011
    Messages:
    845
    Likes Received:
    10
    Status:
    Medical Student
    just rock ur mcat and gpa, lots of people get in without research....
     
  22. miabullitt

    Joined:
    May 26, 2010
    Messages:
    88
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Pre-Medical
    to above poster who asked. I'm completeing 45/credits a year so 15/semester.

    Why? becaue I am double majoring in Finance/Intnl Business and taking science prereqs + slated biochem and genetics. So needless to say, I have a full plate.

    I'll have to see about trying to find a spot in my school (FIU) to try and get SOME research in, but with all the pre-med gunners majoring in science, the professors will look at me when they see Finance/Intnl Biz on my unofficial trranscripts :scared:
     
  23. TheMightySmiter

    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2009
    Messages:
    5,220
    Likes Received:
    38
    MDApps:
    Status:
    Medical Student
    Don't do science research, do business research! I'm sure there are opportunities in your department. Honestly, I did lab research for a semester and I hated it. Just hated it. So I stopped, because why should I do something I hate just so I can pretend to have enjoyed it in interview? I put it on my app so that if I'm asked about it, I can tell the truth--I tried it and it wasn't for me. However, I did do a summer of health policy research that was awesome. See if you can spare a few hours a week to do research in your major. You won't be competing with other pre-med gunners and you'll probably enjoy it a lot more.
     
  24. NickNaylor

    NickNaylor Thank You for Smoking
    Physician Lifetime Donor Classifieds Approved 10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2008
    Messages:
    16,567
    Likes Received:
    7,153
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    ...because MCAT/GPA make up for everything, right?

    If you're aiming for one of the top schools, you either 1) need significant research experience, or 2) over the top ECs/experiences that will make up for your lack of research experience. At lower ranked schools, sure, you can get away with no experience. But not if you're aiming for Harvard, Yale, etc..
     
  25. miabullitt

    Joined:
    May 26, 2010
    Messages:
    88
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Pre-Medical
    as far as US news rankings the highest ranked schools I will be applying to are UF and UM. I am a florida resident and want to stay instate if at all possible.
     
  26. NickNaylor

    NickNaylor Thank You for Smoking
    Physician Lifetime Donor Classifieds Approved 10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2008
    Messages:
    16,567
    Likes Received:
    7,153
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    Then I wouldn't be too concerned. If you're interested in research, do it, but I wouldn't be too stressed about it. Just make sure the other aspects of your application are as strong as possible.
     
  27. LawlasaurusRex

    5+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2011
    Messages:
    145
    Likes Received:
    3
    Status:
    Medical Student
    ^ Yes. You are going to hear about a lot of advice that will suggest this activity or that activity. You don't always have to do them, since doing everything that everybody else does will merely set you up as a cookie-cutter applicant. Plenty of people get into med school with little or no research experience. Find out what your interests are, and push it was far as you can. If you care about lack of access to health care, then organize free health clinics in your community. Those experiences are vastly more beneficial to your growth, are more meaningful and that passion will show on paper. Now it is, though, important to get some significant research exposure if you are aiming for top schools, but usually you will have needed a couple of years under your belt to really impress them. You can always squeeze in research during summer, and go from there.
     
  28. JESSFALLING

    2+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2011
    Messages:
    1,115
    Likes Received:
    7
    Status:
    Pre-Medical
    (Copied from another thread...)

    If we are going to continue debating how best to raise the proverbial bar ever higher, I think it is important to remember that a high intelligence is worthless without the creativity or motivation to channel it into new frontiers. Richard Feynman and Einstein were smart, obviously, but they are remembered as scientific legends for their incredible contributions. Without said contributions, we wouldn't even know their names.

    A proven interest in research is one way that an individual can demonstrate to others that they might have what it takes to become legendary, rather than just ordinary. (Not that an ordinary physician is useless, by any means...they just aren't scholarly, so to say.)
     
  29. V5RED

    V5RED MS-1
    Lifetime Donor Classifieds Approved 7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2011
    Messages:
    1,128
    Likes Received:
    311
    MDApps:
    Status:
    Medical Student
    +1
     
  30. vayntraubinator

    2+ Year Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2011
    Messages:
    510
    Likes Received:
    2
    MDApps:
    Status:
    Pre-Health (Field Undecided)
    UM is huuuge on clinical experience. Make sure you get tons of meaningful clinical
     

Share This Page