Non Academic Probation as Institutional Action?

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WannaKnow123

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Hello, it is my understanding that the Institutional Action is referring to academic related problems. Would being placed on non-academic probation be something I would have to disclose?

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Hello, it is my understanding that the Institutional Action is referring to academic related problems. Would being placed on non-academic probation be something I would have to disclose?

Like what?

Like underage drinking? That is non-academic, but it is a disciplinary thing - an action taken by the institution - that must be reported.

Not just limited to cheating, or plagiarism...
 
Any institutional action by your college or university must be disclosed - it may be academic or nonacademic, i.e. conduct issues. For example, there was a recent thread about a guy who got suspended from his university for slapping his girlfriend - it was conduct not an academic issue - and it has to be disclosed.

By the way, what did you do?
 
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Hello, this is probably a neurotic question, but IAs are only about (negative) conduct and academic issues right? I transferred from one undergrad college to another, and on my transcript it says under Actions "Internal Transfer Fall 2005." But I definitely don't need to check the IA box for this right?
 
Hello, this is probably a neurotic question, but IAs are only about (negative) conduct and academic issues right? I transferred from one undergrad college to another, and on my transcript it says under Actions "Internal Transfer Fall 2005." But I definitely don't need to check the IA box for this right?

Yes, you are too neurotic on this one.
 
Thanks Flip, you're always good for a reality check. Noticed it for the first time yesterday as I was entering my classes.

To the OP - I think you would have to report this, especially since you got caught on campus. It would be far worse to omit it only to have them find out later. I think as long as you stress what you learned from it, etc. Seems like lots of people have been accepted with IAs.
 
According to the instructions you have to answer "yes" if you've ever had any institutional action taken against you for conduct or academics. It has this to say:

"If you are not certain whether or not you have been the subject of an institutional action, contact the registrar, student affairs officer, or other appropriate party at the institution for confirmation of your record"

http://www.aamc.org/students/amcas/2011amcasinstructions.pdf (page 27-28)

DO NOT ANSWER YES UNTIL YOU FIND OUT WHETHER IA HAS ACTUALLY BEEN TAKEN.

What happened to you may not count as institutional action. If it does, you HAVE to answer yes, but if it doesn't you should say no.
 
Softmore year I tried mushrooms with my roommate and got caught wondering around on campus. That was 4 years ago now. I was put on non-academic probation and did some classes for it. I think I have a really strong app, but am afraid this will kill it. If I don't report it, will it definitely come up and if I do, do I still stand a chance? It shows up when I request the deans certification list of my record. Do the applications always check this?

Sounds like something you would definetely have to report. I'm sorry to say it, but this will probably affect your chances. If you were on probation and had to take special classes then it is definetely on your record and your "institution took action."
 
Is this something they will definitely check? What happens if I don't report it and they find out, can I say that I didn't think it was institutional action? Or if the best thing to do is to report it, other than just take responsibility and say what you learned, is there anything else they want to see? Finally, if you get to interviews, are they still going to bring it up? This is so stupid if this is going to ruin my whole application.

If they find out at some point that you've hid this they can pull your acceptance. If it's later in your career they can rescind your degree. You're going to have to take responsibility for this. Heck, you even said it was on your record. It's not something you're going to be able o hide. Pretending you didn't know isn't going to fly. Yes, they might bring it up at your interviews, as they should, because it was a lapse of judgement on your part.

The thing is that schools have many applicants who didn't get into trouble. You have to prove that they should look past this.
 
If they find out at some point that you've hid this they can pull your acceptance. If it's later in your career they can rescind your degree. You're going to have to take responsibility for this. Heck, you even said it was on your record. It's not something you're going to be able o hide. Pretending you didn't know isn't going to fly. Yes, they might bring it up at your interviews, as they should, because it was a lapse of judgement on your part.

The thing is that schools have many applicants who didn't get into trouble. You have to prove that they should look past this.

I agree.

If this is documented in your schools records, then it should be reported as institutional action.

As damage control, you are given an essay section on AMCAS to explain any institutional action. In this section, you want to defend you yourself, but also, not to make a big deal about the negative side. I am not sure what the details are of your specific situation and how they are reported in your official school documentation, but consider something like this: "During my sophomore year of undergraduate education I was caught by campus staff having used an illicit substance. The institution placed me on non-academic probation and assisted me in resolving this issue by providing me substance avoidance education and other related resources. X months after that incident, I was removed from non-academic probation and have maintained a clean record since then. I have made every attempt to put that incident behind me and strive towards greater goals in my life. If given the opportunity to interview, I am more than willing to discuss this situation and how it helped me grow into a responsible adult" (obviously, tailor it to your specific situation and be ready to discuss this issue during your interview).

If AMCAS personnel can reasonably conclude that you were deceitful on your application, they can exclude you from ever participating in AMCAS again. If the schools figure this out, they can rescind an offer or expel you (or any of the other things mentioned in previous posts). The schools will also report this deceit to AMCAS.
 
Again, I'd like to repeat my advice:

Make sure this actually went on your record as institutional action. You shouldn't even be posting here until you figure that out. If it has, you must report it. If it hasn't, then you're scot-free. You do not need to report it if it wasn't considered institutional action. It would be very silly to do so before you called and found out for sure.
 
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Again, I'd like to repeat my advice:

Make sure this actually went on your record as institutional action. You shouldn't even be posting here until you figure that out. If it has, you must report it. If it hasn't, then you're scot-free. You do not need to report it if it wasn't considered institutional action.

Beware:

It is important to have accurate information when dealing with delicate situations such as this. I don't mean to "call you out", but your advice on this situation is not good.

The AMCAS 2011 Instructions are clear on this topic; the academic action does NOT need to appear on a student's official school paperwork to be considered institutional action. Since the original poster already stated that he or she was placed on non-academic probation by his or her academic institution, this IS considered institutional action.

Here is an excerpt from the 2011 AMCAS Instructions:

Regarding institutional action:
You must answer "Yes" to this question if you were ever the recipient of any institutional action resulting from unacceptable academic performance or a conduct violation, even if such action did not interrupt your enrollment or require you to withdraw. You must answer "Yes" even if the
action does not appear on or has been deleted from your official transcripts due to institutional policy or personal petition.
 
Beware:

It is important to have accurate information when dealing with delicate situations such as this. I don't mean to "call you out", but your advice on this situation is not good.

It also says this (which I posted earlier):

"If you are not certain whether or not you have been the subject of an institutional action, contact the registrar, student affairs officer, or other appropriate party at the institution for confirmation of your record"

Only if our OPer calls and they give him incorrect information is my advice poor. Yes, the OP should be very sure it's not considered institutional action and did not go on a record that medical schools can access, but once that has been done there's no reason to report the offense.

I'm just saying call and ask. Make sure it was considered an institutional action before you put it on an application. Ask the person in charge their advice on the issue. Ask your premed advisor, since they probably deal with this kind of thing all the time, what their advice is. We may not be the best source of information.
 
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It also says this (which I posted earlier):

"If you are not certain whether or not you have been the subject of an institutional action, contact the registrar, student affairs officer, or other appropriate party at the institution for confirmation of your record"

Only if our OPer calls and they give him incorrect information is my advice poor. Yes, the OP should be very sure it's not considered institutional action and did not go on a record that medical schools can access, but once that has been done there's no reason to report the offense.

I'm not sure that probation is always institutional action. Different schools have different rules and different policies on things, and this might be an affair that's dealt with entirely internally. It might be a secret record or it might be a housing issue. This is why you have to clarify with someone who knows what they're talking about at your school.

The bolded statement is not true; this information can be found in the 2011 AMCAS instruction.

In my experience on an admissions committee, non-academic probation (as stated by the original poster) is institutional action as outlined by AMCAS. Even if it is a secret record, AMCAS still requires that this information be disclosed. Now if you are telling the original poster to be dishonest and withhold information that AMCAS requires to be disclosed, I still consider that bad advice.

I find it interesting that you think you know more about the rules and regulations than someone with an abundance of experience in this area. This won’t serve you well in your journey through medicine.

As a note to other readers of this thread, beware of other premed posters (with similar experiences as other premeds) that are so persistently adamant about the quality of their advice, even after being proven wrong. Their persistent advice is usually about not being wrong rather than actually helping others.
 
In my experience on an admissions committee, non-academic probation (as stated by the original poster) is institutional action as outlined by AMCAS. Even if it is a secret record, AMCAS still requires that this information be disclosed. Now if you are telling the original poster to be dishonest and withhold information that AMCAS requires to be disclosed, I still consider that bad advice.

That is why I said AND it did not go on a record (rather than "or"). I'm pretty sure we're in agreement that if it's institutional action it must be reported, I'm just disagreeing about whether we know it is. I do not think we have enough information on the offense or how it was handled. That's why I'm telling the OP to call and ask someone who knows more than either of us.

I am not telling the OP to be dishonest. If they find out it was an institutional action and was removed from their record, then that's their choice (whether to be dishonest or not). It is not my advice though.
 
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It is not on my transcripts, but there is a detailed record of the event when I check the records office. Once I report it, will they request and see the identicle report?

This is going to vary from school to school; some will take measures to see the report right away. Some will screen your application first and if they wish to further pursue you, then they will attempt to get the report at that time. Some will simply let this come up during their background check. It is important to remember that if this detailed report is technically NOT part of your transcripts (as defined by your school), then they cannot release this information without your consent. This means that you'll know who received this information and approximately when. And even if it is part of your transcript, AMCAS does not forward this information to medical schools; it simply uses it to verify your coursework information. So for a school to get this report, you would have to actively release the information to them in some form or another (of course this is all dependent on how people interpret and follow the laws, so I cannot 100% guarantee this).

Then must I address all the points in the report as well or can I talk more generally about the event, to not make the matter seem as bad as it sounds there? In there it states that while under the influence I was in traffic trying to get into peoples cars, resissted arrest, had to write a paper on the dangers of muschrooms, and was put on non-academic probation till graduation.

Again, I would keep it honest and brief, include points that you think they need to know; something along the lines of what I wrote in my previous post. It is important to frame this situation as best as possible. Of course reviewers of your application can tell that you are probably spinning the truth to make the situation sound less severe, but at some subconscious level for the reader, this will still reduce the severity of the situation in their minds to some extent. For example, instead of reporting that you were arrested for trying to break into people’s cars, you could say that you were found by campus police disrupting traffic. Or instead of saying you were placed on non-academic probation until you graduated, you could say that you were placed on non-academic probation and have had no further adverse incidents to date (I give you these as examples, not for use verbatim, keep it honest). At the end of the essay section definitely talk about how you have grown and matured from this situation (remember, always a positive spin).

Needless to say, I made a bad judgement to experiment and lost control in this situation. I have moved past this and don't want to let one bad decision hinder my future goals.

Most organization that perform these background checks will compel you (your acceptance is contingent on this) to sign a general consent for release of personal information. These releases are then sent to former / current employers and schools depending on the specific background search being performed. Also, you mention being arrested. If this incident was considered a misdemeanor (or a felony) it will show up during most med school background checks.

It is hard to gauge how much this will hurt you chances at getting into medical school. As a general suggestion for someone with a red flag on their application, apply broadly.

Good luck.
 
Yeah, I got a non-academic conduct violation that went into my college file. Supposedly, it is only a file that a person must have permission from me to be able to open and read, but I really don't know how true that was. I do believe it says that you must report anything, both academic or non-academic. If they have it on file, it is just best to be honest. I do not think it is worth the gamble if somebody finds out later. HONESTY IS THE BEST POLICY in my book.
 
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