non citizen veterinarian accredited US vet school graduate

[vjenniee]

Hello, I am an international student who just got admission to accredited vet school in the US. As I am a non-citizen, I am now worried that I will have very hard time getting a visa (H1B) to work in the US after graduation. And even if I get visa, I do not know if they will sponsor for a long time so I can apply for green card. (I have been hearing that it is just nearly impossible to find jobs that will sponsor visa.) Are there non-citizen veterinarians out there working in the US who were in my situation and got visa?

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[VetMedSurvivalGuide]

Unfortunately, the answers to your questions are highly dependent on what you'll want to do after graduation. If you're planning on pursuing internship and residency, some programs will sponsor your H1-B. As a specialist, you're more likely to have someone sponsor you. For private practice as a GP / ER doctor, you'll have to find an employer willing to sponsor a green card and it really just depends on the circumstances. If it's a practice that has been looking for a veterinarian and has had no applicants, they will be more likely to sponsor you vs a practice that has many applicants. It will also be highly dependent on the political climate at the time.

 

[VIN-Foundation]

As VSG wrote, this is program dependent. In general, it has become difficult for academic programs to accept interns who require a visa. First, sponsorship is costly. Second, it has become difficult to get everything processed in the short time between match date and start date. Finally and most importantly is the prevailing wage requirement. You are legally required to pay H-1B workers "at least the local prevailing wage". In many cases this is considered to be the mean salary for veterinarians, which is considerably higher than the typical salary for an intern in a training program.

You internship is 4 years away so hopefully things will improve by then. But who knows. In the meantime, just work hard to learn as much as you can in school and see how things go.

William Thomas

 

[Minnerbelle]

Oh hot damn I wouldn't wish this on anyone. Question for academics. I would imagine residency programs are more apt to sponsor H1Bs than internships. Could the OP get by with an OPT for the intern year and pray for a residency even if it's difficult to get sponsored for an internship? Or are the barriers the same? I feel like I know a lot more foreign residents vs. interns.

Otherwise, lab animal residencies at larger universities with strong biomedical research +/- associated human teaching hospitals are probably more amenable to sponsor as they frequently do for their scientists and MDs (both staff and residents/fellows) and internships are not required. Maybe Path as well. Getting a spot is another issue altogether.

The hardest part is what to do afterwards too... the jump from H-1b to green card is much harder than getting the H-1b. And those 6 years go by fast esp if you spend time in internship/residency. You might be able to get an extension but you'd likely need a big employer, and it'a stressful. Your best bet would be specializing and going for an EB-2/national interest waiver and self petition if your employer will not do it. Even that is not easy. Just went through it for my husband who is a scientist from a country without any wait times for processing. It was an annoying and costly process ($8,000 legal fees where I did a lot of the work). Get a reputable immigration lawyer and don't do it yourself. I'm guessing cost isn't an issue as being able to afford a US accredited vet school on a visa in itself is a feat where loans are largely not an option. If it is an issue, you should seriously reconsider if this is what you want to do. If you're from a country with super long wait times, you're kind of f***ed. Even if this is your plan, make sure you have a backup plan. One of my vet school faculty mentors timed out on the H-1b and had to pack up and go home. If you will be able to practice in your home country, it might be worth it to forge ahead. But if getting a license in your home country or you have a language barrier with your country of origin, that's a huge gamble.

If you don't specialize, honestly... you have 4 years to marry a US citizen... and pray that works out?

 

[KCgophervet]

Otherwise, lab animal residencies at larger universities with strong biomedical research +/- associated human teaching hospitals are probably more amenable to sponsor as they frequently do for their scientists and MDs (both staff and residents/fellows) and internships are not required. Maybe Path as well. Getting a spot is another issue altogether.

This is probably pretty program specific but I know my program doesn't sponsor visas. Just because the different research departments may have the funds for it doesn't mean the lab animal residency program will. On top of that, it would be even harder to compete with candidates who are likely just as qualified and come with a lower "price tag". Not saying don't try for lab animal if that's what you're interested in, just saying from n=1 that it's not necessarily going to be an easier option.

 

[JaynaAli]

My academic institution has essentially stopped sponsoring visas for house officers, period. They may not come out and say that anywhere officially, but we were all told not to even really interview potential residents who needed sponsorship.

 

[cheathac]

Oh hot damn I wouldn't wish this on anyone. Question for academics. I would imagine residency programs are more apt to sponsor H1Bs than internships. Could the OP get by with an OPT for the intern year and pray for a residency even if it's difficult to get sponsored for an internship? Or are the barriers the same? I feel like I know a lot more foreign residents vs. interns.

Otherwise, lab animal residencies at larger universities with strong biomedical research +/- associated human teaching hospitals are probably more amenable to sponsor as they frequently do for their scientists and MDs (both staff and residents/fellows) and internships are not required. Maybe Path as well. Getting a spot is another issue altogether.

The hardest part is what to do afterwards too... the jump from H-1b to green card is much harder than getting the H-1b. And those 6 years go by fast esp if you spend time in internship/residency. You might be able to get an extension but you'd likely need a big employer, and it'a stressful. Your best bet would be specializing and going for an EB-2/national interest waiver and self petition if your employer will not do it. Even that is not easy. Just went through it for my husband who is a scientist from a country without any wait times for processing. It was an annoying and costly process ($8,000 legal fees where I did a lot of the work). Get a reputable immigration lawyer and don't do it yourself. I'm guessing cost isn't an issue as being able to afford a US accredited vet school on a visa in itself is a feat where loans are largely not an option. If it is an issue, you should seriously reconsider if this is what you want to do. If you're from a country with super long wait times, you're kind of f***ed. Even if this is your plan, make sure you have a backup plan. One of my vet school faculty mentors timed out on the H-1b and had to pack up and go home. If you will be able to practice in your home country, it might be worth it to forge ahead. But if getting a license in your home country or you have a language barrier with your country of origin, that's a huge gamble.

If you don't specialize, honestly... you have 4 years to marry a US citizen... and pray that works out?

I'm interested in this post mainly because of my boyfriend. He's from another country and came here on a student visa to study cybersecurity and is wanting to upgrade to an H1-b visa after, but with the current political environment it will be extremely difficult for him. Me personally want to marry him after veterinary school (3 more years). I'll "hopefully" be doing a residency and don't really want to do long distance plus I love th guy. Our morals, the way we deal with money, religion, characters, line up beautifully. He treats me wonderfully and is so interested in every aspect of my life. And IMO 3 years appears to be an adequate time to date before marriage. Could be wrong, just basing this on my friends experiences. I'm just hoping my parents will agree with that and will support it in case he doesn't get an H1-b visa.

 

[Minnerbelle]

This is probably pretty program specific but I know my program doesn't sponsor visas. Just because the different research departments may have the funds for it doesn't mean the lab animal residency program will. On top of that, it would be even harder to compete with candidates who are likely just as qualified and come with a lower "price tag". Not saying don't try for lab animal if that's what you're interested in, just saying from n=1 that it's not necessarily going to be an easier option.

Didn't say it would be easy. But I bet it's definitely easier than for a nonspecialized vet getting sponsored in the general workforce, and probably than for a rotating internship. It's just a rough road altogether. And hence why I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

 

[VIN-Foundation]

Oh hot damn I wouldn't wish this on anyone. Question for academics. I would imagine residency programs are more apt to sponsor H1Bs than internships.

Depends on the program. The biggest problem for us these days is the prevailing wage rules. Even if we were to pay an international resident $65,000+, what about all of our other residents? Having one resident earn twice what all the other residents are earning for the exact same job is problematic. So for us, until something changes, we just can't accept intern and residents that require a visa. And we state that clearly in our program description.

William Thomas

 

[Minnerbelle]

Depends on the program. The biggest problem for us these days is the prevailing wage rules. Even if we were to pay an international resident $65,000+, what about all of our other residents? Having one resident earn twice what all the other residents are earning for the exact same job is problematic. So for us, until something changes, we just can't accept intern and residents that require a visa. And we state that clearly in our program description.

William Thomas

Wait, so the foreign residents exist (assuming they don't have work authorization otherwise) are getting $65k+? I've known at least a handful from the EU, and I'm pretty sure they had no other ties to the US.

 

[VIN-Foundation]

Wait, so the foreign residents exist (assuming they don't have work authorization otherwise) are getting $65k+? .

The law says you must pay H-1B visa workers a "prevailing wage". The idea is to not take advantage of international workers. The "prevailing wage" for a veterinarian is $65K or more, depending on region. This is based on the Occupational Employment Statistics (OES) survey that shows that's what veterinarians earn. Multiple programs requested veterinary residents and interns be classified separately. That was rejected based on one of their principles which states that occupations are classified based on work performed. And the work that residents and interns do is similar to other veterinarians not in training.

William Thomas

 

[Minnerbelle]

I'm interested in this post mainly because of my boyfriend. He's from another country and came here on a student visa to study cybersecurity and is wanting to upgrade to an H1-b visa after, but with the current political environment it will be extremely difficult for him. Me personally want to marry him after veterinary school (3 more years). I'll "hopefully" be doing a residency and don't really want to do long distance plus I love th guy. Our morals, the way we deal with money, religion, characters, line up beautifully. He treats me wonderfully and is so interested in every aspect of my life. And IMO 3 years appears to be an adequate time to date before marriage. Could be wrong, just basing this on my friends experiences. I'm just hoping my parents will agree with that and will support it in case he doesn't get an H1-b visa.

You may want to consult an immigration lawyer or at least really start looking into it now to start thinking about your options. If your circumstances work out, then a green card marriage is not a big hassle. But you have to be in the right circumstances. It's not as easy as any random US citizen can marry any random foreigner and grant them a greencard. For one thing, depending on when he is graduating in relations to when you will be done with vet school, the timeline can be really tight. You as his sponsor (unless his employer is willing to pitch in) need to have an income that is 125% above poverty level for your household size. Shouldn't be a problem even with paltry internship/residency wages, but you likely wouldn't meet that as a student (or even if you did it would be hard to prove). By the time you need to sponsor him, you need to have already collected evidence and have gotten married already. So if that is the route you might need to go, you really need to know your timeline. If he's on an F-1 visa, does his degree allow for an extension of his OPT?

For my SO, marriage really was the easiest way. Even being a greencard holder myself, it would have been a lot cheaper/easier for my hubby to get his greencard through marriage. We were planning on getting married anyway. The only reason we didn't was because as we were planning, SO brought up a prenup because his parents have a significant amount of real estate that he wanted protected. It's essentially a major part of his retirement plan, so it could potentially really screw him up if things went sour. Not that he would want any of it back in the event of a divorce, but the beginning of our relationship/marriage/home ownership was funded by his savings so his front end investment was huge. I essentially had 0 stakes in the game. I'd already sucked up a lot of his current assets, and he doesn't have the best earning potential as an academic staff scientist, so a divorce could really f*** him over given his circumstances.

At that point, as much as I understood where he was coming from, I said that if he was that risk averse, then a marriage based green card was a really bad idea. His ability to keep his career and stay in the states would be tied to our marriage. And honestly, I think that might f*** him up even more than a nasty divorce without a prenup. And I didn't want either of us to feel stuck in a marriage just for the sake of his immigration status. So we just decided to bite the bullet and hired a lawyer and self-petitioned for a NIW. Worst case scenario we could always get married if it somehow failed. He had a really good chance of getting it, so it was a matter of coughing up $$$, and we could afford it so we did. Once he had his greencard, he was free to leave his postdoc and find a real job. In the end we got his greencard then bought a house and got married without a prenup... and I'm still not sure if asked, if I'd rather have $7k in cash back to have his immigration status depend on our marriage. Thankfully I don't ever have to think about it because it doesn't.

If your SO is okay with packing up and leaving in case of relationship failure, marriage is not a bad way to go. My brother sponsored his wife and it was easy peasy. Being able to check that box on job apps that says you are authorized to work opens sooo many doors. You become much easier to employ. For my hubby, it would have been exponentially harder to procure a job without his greencard past his postdoc position (at least getting an H1b is super easy for that because his field is non-capped).

In your case, trying to procure an H-1b and having marriage as a back up probably makes the most sense as long as the timing works out and you're okay with being geographically restricted for specialization (which may mean you can't match). If he's finishing school well before you are, or you're hoping to hop from vet school to internship to residency in different locations and he's on an H-1b, you'll likely need to prepare for a long distance. And you'll likely need to settle for a real job near his employment if your plan is to then get him a marriage based greencard at some point. It's a lot harder, and would take a good immigration lawyer if you are long distance. A greencard marriage would give you both a lot more freedom in that regard, but does put more stress on your relationship.

 

[Minnerbelle]

The law says you must pay H-1B visa workers a "prevailing wage". The idea is to not take advantage of international workers. The "prevailing wage" for a veterinarian is $65K or more, depending on region. This is based on the Occupational Employment Statistics (OES) survey that shows that's what veterinarians earn. Multiple programs requested veterinary residents and interns be classified separately. That was rejected based on one of their principles which states that occupations are classified based on work performed. And the work that residents and interns do is similar to other veterinarians not in training.

William Thomas

Wow. I'm aware of the prevailing wage, as my husbands pay changed because of it (though my understanding was that its purpose was to protect jobs of Americans rather than to prevent foreigner abuse, since the whole premises of an h1b is to hire foreigners only in circumstances of deficit in domestic talent). But I'd always assumed that it was based on resident/intern wage.

My really good foreign MD friends on h1b were paid ~$60k for their residencies, which is typical for MD residents in their program and below average pay for an attending MD. One just took a huge pay cut from attending pay to fellowship pay, though I didn't ask for specifics. What's the difference there? Is it because internship/residencies are not required in vet med and therefore "similar job description" as those not in training? An MD fellow performs similar work as those who stopped after residency?

 

[VIN-Foundation]

MD/DO residency programs must also follow the laws regarding H-1B prevailing wage requirements. In fact this year there have been delays and denials in processing many of these visas because immigration services would not accept the AAMC's surveys regarding wages. The problem is not really the rule itself, it is the data Immigration Services uses in the various regions to determine the prevailing wage.

 

[VetMedSurvivalGuide]

One of the reasons for so many problems with prevailing wage is that regardless of if you are an MD or DVM, the data used by the government is the same. Thus the ~60-65k prevailing wage - they use MD salaries to set it. And no, no foreign veterinary intern/resident is or was paid that salary.
A few years ago, veterinary internship/residency programs could appeal the prevailing wage rule by using data available from the AVMA. Since then, it has become more difficult (and more expensive) to bypass these hurdles and many programs simply switched their policy to not consider/accept foreign graduates. On the same note to what Dr. Thomas mentioned above, it is also taking longer for H1-B visas to be approved (even for MDs) in time for when the position starts, which adds another layer of problems.

 

[chenolay]

My academic institution has essentially stopped sponsoring visas for house officers, period. They may not come out and say that anywhere officially, but we were all told not to even really interview potential residents who needed sponsorship.

May I ask which institution it is?