Non-trad master's level clinician thinking about returning for a PhD?

[aaak76307]

Hi all,

I'm 33, and I've been a masters-level clinician for 9 years, mostly in a research-focused role, especially currently. I did split research/clinical work for 5 years after my master's, but my role for the past 4 years has been primarily research-based, although I still do clinical supervision of the master's students who are doing their field work at our site (we have a decent number every semester). I've been wanting to go back for a PhD in clinical/counseling psych, and I'd like some input from you fine, anonymous folks (I've also reached out to mentors IRL and they are supportive, though divided on whether the cost/benefit would be worth it). Between my job and some occasional adjuncting, I make around $75k per year now, with decent benefits, Ideally, I'd love to work for a VA (clinical or clinical/research) or in a TT faculty role, though probably not at an R1.

Stats/experience for context:
GPA: 3.75-ish UG, 3.9+ Grad
GRE: Over a decade old now, so would have to re-take but I scored a 1250 on the old GRE, higher in quant

Clinical experience: In addition to some generic OP therapy fieldwork and some ASD-focused fieldwork in grad school, I did 5 years of ,40 FTE clinical work in the context of an academic-affiliated clinic, mostly focused around trauma, mood disorders, and ASD (we managed to get a big ASD-related contract, so I did a lot of work with that, as I had experience from grad school with that population). I've supervised master's fieldwork students for the past 4 years after that, with only a handful of semesters "off."

Research/publications: 30 peer-reviewed publications, including 10 as first-author--luckily, the PIs here are very supportive and have allowed me to take the lead on some analyses, writing, and systematic reviews, so I've netted some nice FA pubs and pubs in general. Two of those pubs have also won awards, and the pubs are well-cited. Around 20-30 posters/conference presentations. Named as personnel in a couple of large federal grants, including one as co-I. Named as co-PI on a foundation grant and as PI on another small foundation grant. Also have been named in some proposals that were unfunded--not sure if that's worth mentioning?

Teaching: I've adjuncted for some masters-level courses pretty regularly since my master's program and a couple of scattered UG courses.

Other: I've done a fair bit of ad hoc reviewing for legit journals and some service on institutional committees.

I'm open geographically as long as the program us funded and the fit is good. My interests are in psychosocial aspects of chronic health conditions and eating disorders (though my publications align strongly with the former, so I may not apply to any ED-focused PIs. Working on an ED-focused MS now that I will hopefully submit this summer as first author). At this point, I'm really deciding if the costs/benefits of applying (and retaking the GRE, ugh) make sense at my age, though any and all feedback is welcome!

Thanks!

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[R. Matey]

I went back for my Ph.D. in my thirties so obviously I think it's worth it, but there are financial costs to consider. Personally, I don't think they're irreparable but I'm sure others disagree. But even with a funded program, you're looking at a substantial pay cut in terms of lost income potential for not much gained in your ROI financially speaking. Of course you can have a side hustle to make up the difference, but it is your time. FWIW also, I took the GRE and the Psych GRE years after undergrad and did well enough to get several offers when I applied. Based on your reported stats, you probably will also do fine.

I most definitely don't regret it. Having a Ph.D. has made me a far superior clinician than what I was at the master's level even with making an effort to attend trainings on EBPs and having a psychologist oversee my licensure hours for my mid-level license. I am far better trained in all areas of clinical practice and supervision than I was plus I have added research and assessment skills to my repertoire. I also had the chance to really learn statistics in graduate school, which has led to some really great opportunities for me that have nothing to do with day-to-day clinical practice. I would absolutely do it again because being a psychologist fits me better as a person thus making me happier at work.

Feel free to PM me if you want further details

 

[summerbabe]

Ideally, I'd love to work for a VA (clinical or clinical/research)

Many VAs are experiencing mental health staff shortages currently so if you want to move into a VA therapy role, the jobs are out there. I think MS level therapists are GS11s ($64,649 annually if you aren't in an area with extra locality pay and you should be able to negotiate a higher starting salary/step since you have experience). However, these are full clinical FTE jobs. Not sure if .4 FTE has been your max clinical load, but a standard 100% clinical VA job translates to 26-28 hourly appointments every week and unless you're in a specialty clinic, very little say/control over what types of presenting problems you'll see.

VA gigs with paid research time are rare, especially outside of a MIRECC/CoE setting. So if you get a PhD and get a job at a VA, you'd most likely be a somewhat better paid and (hopefully) better trained clinician who spends their own time on research. If you're at a large VA medical center, there are probably lots of exciting projects that you can get involved in with the possibility of having time bought out down the line. But if you do get research time allotted, it's likely that it'll be like 10% or less of your total work time.

or in a TT faculty role, though probably not at an R1.

You'd probably be really competitive for a funded PhD and I imagine you could also be competitive for a TT job especially if you find a good fit that continues work you've already invested a lot of time in so I'd really think about what you want to do with a PhD that you can't already do.

Assuming you retire at 65, what do you want the next 3 decades to look like and would you want to commit the next 5-7 years of your life (including internship and possibly postdoc) to make the following 25ish more rewarding? And seeing patients full-time (or nearly full-time) will be pretty different from teaching, research, and clinical supervision with possible side private practice work and my hunch is that most people have a preference for one over the other.

Lastly, if you can easily envision multiple ways that you can be personally and professionally satisfied with your current degree, it might not be worth it, especially since grad school can potentially negatively impact an existing family, starting a family, dating, etc. Good luck!