Non-trad, MS: Am I on the right track?

[Green912]

Here's my story:
I graduated seven years ago with a BS in Biology with a really bad 2.5gpa. Since then I've been working as a fulltime Paramedic/Fireman for a small city in Ohio. Over the years I've matured quite a bit and decided to seriously pursue my desire to enter med school.
I've finished two semesters of my Masters program in Biology and am maintaining a 4.0gpa. I'm going to school FT (9 credits is considered FT)while still working FT. I'm also married. I've never taken the MCAT, but am studying for it now. Assuming my MCAT score is sufficiently high enough, does anyone have an idea of how I'll be viewed by Ad Com's? I plan to only apply in Ohio to both MD and DO programs.

thanks for reading another "what do you think" question.
R.E.

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[eagle26]

Hey Green,

I was in the same boat, more or less. I did a master's program with a 4.0, and now I'm just working full time. Needless to say, it's been a while between the time I took chemistry and physics (about 8 years) until the time I took the MCAT. It may require some additional studying to get good scores, but it can be done.

As far as admissions committees go, they seem to LOVE students who have been working and decided to go back to study medicine. They definitely will look favorably on you. Just keep up that GPA, and do well on the MCAT. You'll go far.

Joe

 

[Cobragirl]

I think you will both be fine! Believe it or not, ADCOMS look pretty favorably on "older" applicants that have some "life" experience. I am "older"/"non-trad" as well and it was my OUTSIDE interests and experiences that got me into a great school (don't get me wrong, I had a high GPA & decent, but not awesome, MCAT).
I think many older applicants think they have no chance, JUST BECAUSE THEY'RE OLDER, when in reality the number of non-trads applying to one school is so low (in comparison to the early-20's crowd) that you actually have a very GOOD chance of making it. The schools WANT a diverse class...and diversity includes age/experience too! In my personal opinion, I also think they look VERY favorably upon people (in any age bracket) that can keep up a full-time job and/or a family, while keeping the grades up (I did it that way too). You guys sound like you're gaining a wealth of experience that will serve you richly in school! I think you'll have your pick when it comes down to acceptance time!

Good Luck!

PS- joseph, make sure you check with the schools you are interested in about your "aging" transcripts. Some schools will not accept science credits that are more than 5-6 years old...they may want you to take some Chemistries, etc over.

 

[Coalboy]

One thing you need to be careful about: some schools require that your premed classes (bio, physics, etc) have been taken no more than X years ago (the actual number depends on the school). They might be leniant on this, especially if you do well on the MCAT and have done well in your Masters program. In any case, it sounds like you are well on your way. Good luck!

 

[Coalboy]

Looks like Cobragirl posted a similar warning while I was writing my reply. Sorry to be redundant and say the same thing over and over again and repeat myself... etc.

 

[eagle26]

I didn't mean to sound confusing, but I was trying to encourage Green. I was already accepted at MCV, so I'm not terribly worried about the transcripts! But thanks for the info, I didn't know that at all, and that could have been a limiting factor. Thanks for the support!!

Joe

 

[tBw]

Does anyone know which schools have aging limits on transcripts? I know Duke does...but then I won't be applying there so that doesn't matter to me...

thanks

ow

 

[spacecadet]

Green,

Check out the OldPreMeds website at <a href="http://www.northern-town.com/opm" target="_blank">www.northern-town.com/opm</a>.

People have overcome many things, including less-than-stellar GPA's. I think that you can definitely find a way to get in if you really want it.

 

[EpiII]

I also heard about the aging transcript issue which really worried me. I graduated from undergrad in 1994 and took G Chem in 91-92, etc. I only applied to the 8 schools in CA and none of them have said a peep about the old grades.

I did get an MPH in 1997 from UCLA and have taken about 8-9 additional courses in the last 3-4 years in addition to working full time. I also have found that I have been very well received so far.

Good luck.

 

[EMDrMoe]

Hi Green912!

My husband and I graduated from undergrad in '95 and grad school in '96 (he went to Norton HS, by the way and I worked for a year at Highland HS after grad school). We only applied in Ohio (no DO programs, though) this year and had no problems with our old grades. We both got into MCO, our first choice. You can definitely do it!!! If you want more specific info, please feel free to email me or send a private message

PS - kick butt on the MCAT!!!

 

[grettlin]

Hi,
I have some kind of the same situation like Green (29 years old, 2 years work), but a different in graduate GPA. Hope anyone could give me some suggestion. I graduated from undergraduate in 1997 with GPA 3.6 and go to graduate school in 1998 with GPA 3.18 when graduated in 2000. Both of them are computer science major. The thing I worry is how will the committe will look my graduate GPA?
The reason I did not maintain good GPA is I spent too much time on a school project, but will they take this execuse?

 

[spanky]

Hey, oldernotwiser! What are age limits on transcripts? I have never heard of this concept, but it sounds good!!!! As far as I know, AMCAS requires you to report all grades, even repeats, no matter how old they are. Don't most schools have initial GPA and MCAT cutoffs before they even give a good look to your app to see the details? I'm in the same boat as the rest of you. I have a 4.0 now, but I'm just wondering if I will be able to make the first cut because of 15 year old grades.

 

[tBw]

Originally posted by spanky:
•Hey, oldernotwiser! What are age limits on transcripts? I have never heard of this concept, but it sounds good!!!! •••

Hey spanky:

aging out of transcripts only occurs at some schools. I assume you think this is good as you want some old, lower grades aged out (?) but I am not sure if that is what happens. ie On it's web page Duke specifically states

<a href="http://dukemed.duke.edu/AdmissionsFinancialAid/index.cfm?method=AdmissionsRequirements" target="_blank">http://dukemed.duke.edu/AdmissionsFinancialAid/index.cfm?method=AdmissionsRequirements</a>

"All science requirements must be completed not more than seven years before you enter medical school."

so they have an aging out as far as recency of pre-reqs, but I don't know if that causes them to recalculate GPA (I kind of doubt it - though like most schools they probably look at "new GPA" if you have done considerable postbacc/grad etc).

However, to answer your question - for Duke it is 7 years, but it varies by school. Hope that helps.

g'luck!

onwis

 

[mpp]

Originally posted by grettlin:
•Hi,
I have some kind of the same situation like Green (29 years old, 2 years work), but a different in graduate GPA. •••

I am in a similar situation. My graduate GPA is lower than my undergraduate GPA (both in Physics). However, I took many post-grad undergrad courses and have a very good GPA in those classes which I categorized as post-baccalaureate on the AMCAS application. I have received some interviews but not acceptances as of yet.

 

[grettlin]

Hi MPP,
In our situation, I believe post-bachelor GPA and MCAT must be extremely important. Moreover, MCAT might weight higher. I saw a so-called safe MCAT (which can cover not good GPA) is 30.

 

[mpp]

I agree grettlin. In fact I think the only thing pulling me along right now is my strong MCAT score. Otherwsie, they might look at my lower grad GPA and say, "hey, this guy can't hack graduate level courses, lets not admit him." The truth is that I went into the graduate program more as a convenience than any interest in obtaining a physics PhD. I didn't even have to apply to the program, they just handed me a paper, said sign this and you are now a graduate student. I concentrated most heavily on teaching and research (and also held two outside jobs -- a regretful mistake) and all but ignored my academics. Now that I'm back on track with a clear goal in mind, I find the academics a breeze, spent lots of time studying for the MCAT and it rewarded me. Now I'm just frustrated at the waiting it requires to get through this application process. I applied extra early submitting AMCAS in early July. I figured that I'd at least have an interview before the end of 2001. But it didn't happen. I got my first real interview request today and that interview is not until the end of February. Didn't mean for this to be such a long post...

 

[omores]

Hey Green, there are some scary things you need to be aware of:

First, graduate GPAs are calculated separately by AMCAS, and appear on different parts of the form. They aren't averaged together, though they may become part of your science GPA (does anyone know if that's the case?)

Second, many schools do an initial screening on the basis of MCAT scores and UNDERGRADUATE GPA. Alas, it's a computer that does the screening (I hear), so it won't be able to look at your fabulous graduate GPA and see how much you've improved, it will put you straight in the "no further consideration" category.

Understand that I'm not telling you this to make you feel doomed, but rather so you can do something about it. I've heard that the following technique has worked for some people: write a letter to the admissions committee at each school explaining your situation, and ask that your application be given consideration even though you may not meet their undergraduate GPA cut-off. One of the schools that this worked for was Case -- which really likes non-traditional students like you.

If you can convince them not to let the computer toss you out on a purely numerical basis, I predict (along with everyone else who's written) that admissions committees are going to love you. The fact that you've been working as a paramedic/fireman and that you've pulled off an "academic turnaround" will be very appealing, and you'll really stand out.

Good luck!

 

[Keith]

Green, you can do it!!!!!!!!!!! I'm applying for the first time this year at 34 years old, and I was an August MCATer. Spent 11 years in law enforcement and did all of the pre-med while working full-time. It also took me a lot longer to get my B.S. due to my work duties and shift-work. I wasn't even a science major. Had good stats but that's not the only thing schools look at. Work and life experience are a definite plus!
So far, I have 8 interviews and only 3 rejections after secondaries. (all MD schools) Good luck.