Non traditional 'what are my chances'

[premed33156]

Here's another non traditional student "what are my chances" post:

The (awfully) bad:
-undergrad GPA: 2.5

The good:
-premed reqs were done in undergrad with ~3.0 GPA
-competed in the Olympics, world, collegiate circuit while in high school/college, hence the lack of focus/caring in undergrad;
-associates after BA degree with ~3.5 GPA (to fulfill MS prereqs);
-MS degree in computer science with 3.6 (from same school as undergrad)
-~9 years work experience in academic research, industry at an elite level for my field
-phenomenal LORs (from employer & hopefully a few attendings)
-years of volunteering in health related and local community;
-start shadowing EM attending soon

I'm in my low 30s and looking to take the MCAT in 8-9 months. But before I start studying like crazy, do I have a realistic shot at getting in with a decent score? A complicating matter is that I'd only be applying to a handful of local schools and I suspect the best shot I have is with the same school I attended in undergrad & grad.

So - what are my chances?

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[Goro]

Our Adcom loves an intrugiing story, and it looks like you have one. Our Dean of Admissions is rather fond of student atheletes too. I think what's critical is your cGPA and sGPA currently, and whether it's going to go up any more. The MCAT will be crucial and you must shoot for >33 to stand out for MD schools; DO schools will be much more interested in you especially if the GPAs are >3.0.

What I want to know in the end is if you can handle medical school. Computer sciences are different from what my students have to engorge themselves on.

Here's another non traditional student "what are my chances" post:

The (awfully) bad:
-undergrad GPA: 2.5

The good:
-premed reqs were done in undergrad with ~3.0 GPA
-competed in the Olympics, world, collegiate circuit while in high school/college, hence the lack of focus/caring in undergrad;
-associates after BA degree with ~3.5 GPA (to fulfill MS prereqs);
-MS degree in computer science with 3.6 (from same school as undergrad)
-~9 years work experience in academic research, industry at an elite level for my field
-phenomenal LORs (from employer & hopefully a few attendings)
-years of volunteering in health related and local community;
-start shadowing EM attending soon

I'm in my low 30s and looking to take the MCAT in 8-9 months. But before I start studying like crazy, do I have a realistic shot at getting in with a decent score? A complicating matter is that I'd only be applying to a handful of local schools and I suspect the best shot I have is with the same school I attended in undergrad & grad.

So - what are my chances?

 

[premed33156]

Thanks for taking the time to reply.
You pose an interesting question about being able to handle school... And unfortunately I can't really show concrete proof, which is exactly what my application would lack. On a side note, immediately after college I was enrolled in a foreign med school (with my sister who's now wrapping up her residency) but dropped out to chase a girl. At the time, I knew I'd regret not dropping everything to patch things up with her... Married 3.5 years now The point of my sidebar is that i was facing a must-suceed-at-any-cost opportunity with now having to pursue a backup career... And thats exactly what I did.

Now how do I get a chance to distill that story and add eloquence to it in front on an admissions committee?

Thanks again for your feedback! Anyone else have any input?

 

[premed33156]

.

 

[Catalystik]

You pose an interesting question about being able to handle school... And unfortunately I can't really show concrete proof, which is exactly what my application would lack.

Anyone else have any input?

Don't submit your application until it demonstrates concrete proof, namely some solid consistent grades in upper-level Bio and Biochem. If you got any grade below a C+ in a prerequisite, you might consider retaking it, and certainly any Ds or Fs. Be aware that DO med schools allow for grade replacement if a class has the same credits or greater (which MD schools do not), which would allow you to more rapidly improve your application GPAs than by taking new coursework alone.

Personally, I think you'd be wasting your money to apply summer 2012, as you can't demonstrate consistency in just one semester. Having jumped ship once, it is essential that you show consistency on more than one level.

You're going to be up against a common automatic GPA cutoff of 3.0 at many MD schools. You might figure out how many classes you'd have to take to get past that number for both cGPA and BCPM GPA:
AMCAS GPA calculator: http://medschool.ucsf.edu/postbac/pdf/AMCAS%20GPA_Calculator%20Version%204%20Final.xls

Or a modifiable version/also calc BCPM:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=590424

 

[premed33156]

Don't submit your application until it demonstrates concrete proof, namely some solid consistent grades in upper-level Bio and Biochem. If you got any grade below a C+ in a prerequisite, you might consider retaking it, and certainly any Ds or Fs. Be aware that DO med schools allow for grade replacement if a class has the same credits or greater (which MD schools do not), which would allow you to more rapidly improve your application GPAs than by taking new coursework alone.

Personally, I think you'd be wasting your money to apply summer 2012, as you can't demonstrate consistency in just one semester. Having jumped ship once, it is essential that you show consistency on more than one level.

You're going to be up against a common automatic GPA cutoff of 3.0 at many MD schools. You might figure out how many classes you'd have to take to get past that number for both cGPA and BCPM GPA:
AMCAS GPA calculator: http://medschool.ucsf.edu/postbac/pdf/AMCAS%20GPA_Calculator%20Version%204%20Final.xls

Or a modifiable version/also calc BCPM:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=590424

Thanks for the feedback. I calculated my GPAs as follows:
overall (undergrad & postbac) 2.90;
BCPM 3.00;
post bac 3.55;

While everything trends upwards, I've got so many total credits that I'd probably have to get another MS at a 3.8+ to raise the cGPA which almost seems like an unpredictable play (will it genuinely help? how much will it cost? how long will it take? etc).

In terms of taking additional classes, would a local cc be advisable? And how would you prioritize that along with the MCAT scores? Is a great MCAT score plus additional courseware enough to salvage the undergrad GPA? Or is the damage too great?

 

[flodhi1]

Thanks for the feedback. I calculated my GPAs as follows:
overall (undergrad & postbac) 2.90;
BCPM 3.00;
post bac 3.55;

While everything trends upwards, I've got so many total credits that I'd probably have to get another MS at a 3.8+ to raise the cGPA which almost seems like an unpredictable play (will it genuinely help? how much will it cost? how long will it take? etc).

In terms of taking additional classes, would a local cc be advisable? And how would you prioritize that along with the MCAT scores? Is a great MCAT score plus additional courseware enough to salvage the undergrad GPA? Or is the damage too great?

Do not just take MS classes at they will be of little to no help. You need a SMP program (Special Masters Program) specifically geared towards showing academic competence and previewing first year medical school classes. Yes, a 3.8 GPA would be ideal in your situation and probably necessary. You need to prioritize the MCAT and your GPA because a GPA below a 3.0 will get you automatically screened from systems even before your file gets to human eyes. A low MCAT score will also do the same. A MCAT score > 32 is essential if you're pursuing MD. Yes, a successful coursework and decent MCAT will salvage your situation. The damage is never too great unless there's absolutely no way to raise the GPA > 3.00 so stay positive and good luck!

EDIT:- Research more into DO schools because you'll have a higher chance of getting accepted into them. I think a 3.0 with a MCAT > 28 will suffice assuming strong ECs, early and broad application.

 

[TriagePreMed]

I will be bold and predict no acceptances for you. Your performance in undergrad was piss poor. Your associates, which you had to get at a community college, was only a 3.5, and your masters GPA is unimpressive given how much grade inflation happens in grad school. Research is great, but if I were an ADCOM, I'd advice you to go the Ph.D route.

 

[shinbeats]

I will be bold and predict no acceptances for you. Your performance in undergrad was piss poor. Your associates, which you had to get at a community college, was only a 3.5, and your masters GPA is unimpressive given how much grade inflation happens in grad school. Research is great, but if I were an ADCOM, I'd advice you to go the Ph.D route.

That's a little harsh from someone who has not even taken the MCAT yet let alone applying to medical school or being "ADCOM" lol seriously?
OP listen to Goro, Catalystic and flodhi1 not to someone that has not even experienced anything about applying to medical school other than sit online and read jack.

 

[TriagePreMed]

That's a little harsh from someone who has not even taken the MCAT yet let alone applying to medical school or being "ADCOM" lol seriously?
OP listen to Goro, Catalystic and flodhi1 not to someone that has not even experienced anything about applying to medical school other than sit online and read jack.

Harsh, but that's my opinion, and sure, there are more qualified people to speak. However, I never saw the sign that said only those that applied or took the MCAT can have their own opinion here. And you know, lets say I did take the MCAT and applied and was accepted. Then what? I'm an authority all of a sudden? Please. Many of the people accepting you into medical school (Ph.D's) haven't even taken the MCAT/applied/are physicians.

 

[shinbeats]

Harsh, but that's my opinion, and sure, there are more qualified people to speak. However, I never saw the sign that said only those that applied or took the MCAT can have their own opinion here. And you know, lets say I did take the MCAT and applied and was accepted. Then what? I'm an authority all of a sudden? Please. Many of the people accepting you into medical school (Ph.D's) haven't even taken the MCAT/applied/are physicians.

Those "Ph.D's" that accept applicants into medical school are given guidelines and have been teaching medical students. They are fully pr at least partially aware of the qualities that are needed for a medical student. I want you to tell me how are you aware of such qualities? you know how to put people down just because you got a higher GPA? just because you float around on studentdoc now you can make assessments? please. How about actually being in the environment physically and experiencing how it feels to apply, interview and get accepted before passing judgments and thinking they are on the level of "Ph.D's". Those Ph.Ds are not on studentdoc but physically present at medical schools interviewing individuals. Are you doing the same?

 

[Maineac]

I agree with the SMP suggestion. I was in a similar boat as you as far as undergrad-GPA was concerned (science GPA <3, total GPA just broke 3) , and I successfully completed an SMP program and have already been accepted into multiple MD schools this cycle.
Some MD schools will completely forgive your undergrad GPA if you complete 32 credits (which can be done in a 1-2 year program) or more of relevant graduate level work and do well. My interviewer at Wayne State specifically told me that was their school's policy and I would guess other schools have that policy too.
Also, from my experience, the SMP helped to boost my MCAT score significantly, especially in the bio section, so I would highly recommend doing one if there is something available locally. I know for sure that programs exist in Boston, Philadelphia, and DC, and I'm sure there are others as well.

 

[flodhi1]

I agree with the SMP suggestion. I was in a similar boat as you as far as undergrad-GPA was concerned (science GPA <3, total GPA just broke 3) , and I successfully completed an SMP program and have already been accepted into multiple MD schools this cycle.
Some MD schools will completely forgive your undergrad GPA if you complete 32 credits (which can be done in a 1-2 year program) or more of relevant graduate level work and do well. My interviewer at Wayne State specifically told me that was their school's policy and I would guess other schools have that policy too.
Also, from my experience, the SMP helped to boost my MCAT score significantly, especially in the bio section, so I would highly recommend doing one if there is something available locally. I know for sure that programs exist in Boston, Philadelphia, and DC, and I'm sure there are others as well.

Great advice

 

[Catalystik]

I calculated my GPAs as follows:
overall (undergrad & postbac) 2.90;
BCPM 3.00;
post bac 3.55;

While everything trends upwards, I've got so many total credits that I'd probably have to get another MS at a 3.8+ to raise the cGPA which almost seems like an unpredictable play (will it genuinely help? how much will it cost? how long will it take? etc).

In terms of taking additional classes, would a local cc be advisable? And how would you prioritize that along with the MCAT scores? Is a great MCAT score plus additional courseware enough to salvage the undergrad GPA? Or is the damage too great?

Use the same calculator to see how many credits with a 4.0 GPA would get you past the 3.0 mark. What do you get?

In general, I agree that a traditional masters is not going to help you for the vast majority of med schools. You will need to find out the policy of the school you primarily plan to aim at. It would be a great idea to go in for a consultation about your application plans.

The most rigorous coursework in which you can earn great grades is most advisable. A few CC classes to start is usually no big deal (there are excepetions), but 4-year school's grades would be taken more seriously. I suggest deferring the MCAT for now as you have bigger fish to fry first.

You can see a comprehensive list of SMP's BTW in the Postbaccalaureate Programs Forum, attn to Dr Midlife's sticky at the top. Most of them also require a 3.0 GPA to be considered. The great thing about an SMP is that excellent performance can trump a low uGPA. The bad thing: they're expensive, and if you don't get a high GPA (suggested is 3.5-3.7+) you've pretty much proven you don't have what it takes in adcomm eyes. Then, game over.

 

[TriagePreMed]

Those "Ph.D's" that accept applicants into medical school are given guidelines and have been teaching medical students. They are fully pr at least partially aware of the qualities that are needed for a medical student. I want you to tell me how are you aware of such qualities? you know how to put people down just because you got a higher GPA? just because you float around on studentdoc now you can make assessments? please. How about actually being in the environment physically and experiencing how it feels to apply, interview and get accepted before passing judgments and thinking they are on the level of "Ph.D's". Those Ph.Ds are not on studentdoc but physically present at medical schools interviewing individuals. Are you doing the same?

And you miss the point that there is no requirement of expertise to speak one's opinion. How exactly does "feeling" how it is to apply and be accepted that will make me an authority on it? You also missed the point with Ph.D's. The point is that you don't have to experience things to be able to have an opinion, which can be correct. Statisticians often don't experience things they predict, yet the numbers take them there. And like I've said a million times here, I'm not an expert. I'm just a junkie for information regarding getting into schools.

I come from a low GPA too, and when my GPA was that low, I knew I didn't have a shot. The probabilities, for which the AAMC and other sources release information, doesn't change because we don't like it.

Everyone here is "passing judgment" because the OP asked for opinion. If you want to live in a rainbow world, be my guest. In the real world, people have opinions across the spectrum. If you don't like an opinion, be my guest to ignore it. I'm sorry if you hadn't come across the realization that you can ignore someone.

I stand by what I said. Zero acceptances into M.D., unless he somehow hits a home run on the MCAT. Go see tpsych's thread and see when my opinion is different and why. I was correct there. Time will tell on this one.

 

[premed33156]

Thanks everyone for the feedback! I now feel like I have an actionable plan between smp and rocking the MCATs. I have a couple of appointments with a local school (alma mater) premed advisor and dean of admissions and will keep you guys posted.

Sounds like it's going to be a hard path to go down, but I'll keep posting any updates in hopes it helps someone else. In hindsight, focusing on just sports and not academics was pretty stupid since anyone can excel at both simultaneously with a little effort. But then again, if the choice was simply between competing in the Olympics and my crummy undergrad gpa, I'd still choose the experience in the Games

 

[Catalystik]

1) I have a couple of appointments with a local school (alma mater) premed advisor and dean of admissions and will keep you guys posted.

I'll keep posting any updates in hopes it helps someone else.

2) if the choice was simply between competing in the Olympics and my crummy undergrad gpa, I'd still choose the experience in the Games

1) We'll look forward to hearing what feedback you get from local schools.

2) Your olympic participation will make you unique and hard to ignore, if you can get past automatic cutoffs so human eyeballs see your application.