Aug 3, 2020
19
8
Status (Visible)
  1. Pre-Medical
What is an average and what is an above average # of interviews to have at this point in the cycle if you submitted your secondaries in mid-late July (i.e., early)? I recognize that this website is not an unbiased survey, but seeing people post about the 10 IIs they already have is stressing me out. Also, I know interview invites will continue to come out for months, but given that they generally peak around September-October, at what point is it safest to assume a school is ghosting or rejecting you? Is that different this year than past years due to COVID?
 

Lifeblood_20

SDN Gold Donor
2+ Year Member
Mar 23, 2017
798
1,780
Status (Visible)
  1. Medical Student (Accepted)
When you see people's profiles on SDN, you do not know anything about them or their application. Are they URM? Veteran? Rhode Scholar? Olympic medalist? Child of med school admissions dean? Non-trad who has had a meaningful career and more life experience/maturity?

What I'm trying to say is, there are many reasons an applicant may have a lot of IIs, and their success does NOT have anything to do with you or your prospects. Every second you stress over someone else's cycle is a second you could have spent improving your chances.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 8 users
About the Ads
May 16, 2020
685
1,736
Somewhere in New England
Status (Visible)
  1. Attending Physician
  2. Academic Administration
Keep in mind that some of the people who post about their amazing stats and huge number of interviews are trolls who are trying to upset everyone. :troll:
 
  • Like
Reactions: 8 users

lumya

Indoor Cat
2+ Year Member
Aug 7, 2018
648
1,270
Status (Visible)
  1. Pre-Medical
The number also doesn’t matter. Someone can get 10 IIs by August but no acceptances while someone can get one II in February and get in. It’s a very stressful, competitive process but other applicants shouldn’t serve as the measuring stick of your own app (as hard as that is).
 
  • Like
Reactions: 9 users
Aug 6, 2020
367
470
Status (Visible)
  1. Medical Student (Accepted)
there's definitely some reporting bias on here at times. The subreddits are even worse honestly.
I have a 3.35~cum, 3.15~sci, 513 MCAT. I applied 50/50 MD DO, and so far I have one state MD II (very blessed :) ) I'm still waiting on a good 28-30 schools (I was "complete" most places between late August and early September). I'm just doing a gap year job for now so I don't have to worry about it all day.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 4 users
Jul 17, 2020
55
264
Status (Visible)
  1. Medical Student
there's definitely some reporting bias on here at times. The subreddits are even worse honestly.

The step 1/2 pages are even worse. If you were to only look at Reddit/SDN data instead of NBME reports, it would be easy to think that you wouldn't match with a sub-245. It's best not to get 'lost' on these forums...

People who do well/extraordinary are more likely to report. For those of you applying, remember that all you need is 1 II and 1 acceptance. There are people who look great on paper and bomb interviews. You could have 20 IIs, it doesn't matter until you have an acceptance in your hand.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users

Rachapkis

2+ Year Member
Apr 5, 2018
726
1,385
Status (Visible)
  1. Non-Student
Somewhere between zero and many, many interview offers, depending, of course, on what your application looks like.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
Aug 3, 2020
19
8
Status (Visible)
  1. Pre-Medical
Thank you so much all. This is reassuring to hear. I know other people shouldn’t serve as a measuring stick of my own success or lack thereof (and I’m happy for people who are doing well in this process!), and I know that at the end of the day all it takes is 1 A :) This process is just more stressful than I expected it to be, and I think the hurrying up and waiting is the worst part
 
  • Like
  • Care
Reactions: 4 users

TragicalDrFaust

2+ Year Member
May 27, 2017
300
322
Status (Visible)
  1. Medical Student
I got my first interview in Jan and second in April. Got accepted to the second school late July. It's not over until classes start. But keep working on your application if you're concerned. But the time March rolled around and I started reapplying, I wished I has done more ECs during the cycle and had thought about retaking the MCAT sooner.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users

HouseJC

If nobody hates you, you're doing something wrong
2+ Year Member
Mar 22, 2019
391
410
Toronto
Status (Visible)
  1. Medical Student (Accepted)
Agreed, it is very hard to say. As said before many times on SDN, the application is a crapshoot. Different missions, different reviewers, different standards, chance/luck (despite best intentions of Adcoms to be consistent across the board).

I'm an international applicant (Canadian) applying first time to AMCAS and was very grateful to get an II from a US MD school. Going to treat it as my only II :) Good luck to you in the cycle!
 

gonnif

Rule One: Take a Breath
10+ Year Member
Jul 26, 2009
23,455
39,341
The Big Bad Apple
Status (Visible)
  1. Non-Student
1) This year there will be close to 1,000,000 individual applications submitted. But in aggregate schools only have about 175,000 interview slots during the course of the cycle.
2) at any individual school, at least 80% of applications must be rejected prior to II
3) When you were complete with secondaries is a weak indicator as application and candidate evaluations timeline varies widely by school may not done in a linear, chronological order. EDP, High achievers, URM, family of alumni, feeder schools, associated UG programs, linked postbaccs, and other factor may push an app forward in the process.
4) About 25% of matriculants had a single interview
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
Jun 24, 2020
1,074
1,272
Status (Visible)
  1. Pre-Medical
1) This year there will be close to 1,000,000 individual applications submitted. But in aggregate schools only have about 175,000 interview slots during the course of the cycle.
I remember seeing 50 or 60k applications number somewhere. Could you please advise where you got the 100k number from?
 
About the Ads

gonnif

Rule One: Take a Breath
10+ Year Member
Jul 26, 2009
23,455
39,341
The Big Bad Apple
Status (Visible)
  1. Non-Student
I remember seeing 50 or 60k applications number somewhere. Could you please advise where you got the 100k number from?
No:
there are about 55,000-60,000 applicants
each applicant files on average 16 applications
60,000 applicants x 16 applications each = 960,000 aggregate applications
(this year we will likely exceed 1,000,000)
each school gets very roughly 5,000 individual applications
each school has roughly 1,000 interview slots
each school gives out a several hundred acceptances (both direct and alternate)
each school matriculate about 150-200 first year students

100% students apply
60% get rejected
20% get a single acceptance
20% get multiple acceptance
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 8 users

Microbe_Hunter

2+ Year Member
Jun 1, 2016
98
323
Status (Visible)
  1. Pre-Medical
Fwiw I have 3 IIs so far. 2 IS public schools and 1 IS private school. Complete late july- mid august at most places. Non-URM with a 519, 3.9, and nothing too special about my ECs
 
Jun 24, 2020
1,074
1,272
Status (Visible)
  1. Pre-Medical
No:
there are about 55,000-60,000 applicants
each applicant files on average 16 applications
60,000 applicants x 16 applications each = 960,000 aggregate applications
(this year we will likely exceed 1,000,000)
each school gets very roughly 5,000 individual applications
each school has roughly 1,000 interview slots
each school gives out a several hundred acceptances (both direct and alternate)
each school matriculate about 150-200 first year students

100% students apply
60% get rejected
20% get a single acceptance
20% get multiple acceptance
Thank you. My bad to have read the 1M as 100k.
 
Jun 24, 2020
1,074
1,272
Status (Visible)
  1. Pre-Medical
So, I have 1R (BU) and 4 IIs (2 IS Public, 1 OOS Public, and 1 OOS Private). No top-tier schools yet, which is disappointing. I know people will say be happy with what you have, which I am really thankful for, but hope to get recognized for life-long hard-work by at least one top-tier school
 

EdgeTrimmer

2+ Year Member
May 26, 2018
2,506
1,818
Status (Visible)
  1. Non-Student
So, I have 1R (BU) and 4 IIs (2 IS Public, 1 OOS Public, and 1 OOS Private). No top-tier schools yet, which is disappointing. I know people will say be happy with what you have, which I am really thankful for, but hope to get recognized for life-long hard-work by at least one top-tier school
Too early in the cycle to feel disappointed. Some say those with very strong ECs tend to get initial IIs from T20 schools if you are not an URM/Vet/non-trad etc...
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

KnightDoc

Probationary Status
2+ Year Member
Mar 14, 2019
4,880
5,083
Status (Visible)
  1. Pre-Medical
Too early in the cycle to feel disappointed. Some say those with very strong ECs tend to get initial IIs from T20 schools if you are not an URM/Vet/non-trad etc...
Who says that??? Why would "very strong ECs" receive more attention earlier rather than later in the cycle? I would think that would not necessarily be the case, since a file needs to be read in order for "very strong ECs" to be identified. How does an adcom know which files have "very strong ECs" before they read the file?

URM, non-trad, high stat, low SES, etc. can easily be filtered without actually reading a file. How does that happen with ECs, since "very strong" is inherently "very subjective"? :cool:
 
Aug 20, 2019
777
925
Status (Visible)
  1. Non-Student
Don't discount Covid delays. This is not a normal cycle, and you can throw out much of the conventional wisdom regarding how quickly the decision process occurs.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

Microbe_Hunter

2+ Year Member
Jun 1, 2016
98
323
Status (Visible)
  1. Pre-Medical
Some schools are already scheduling interviews into January so I feel like some schools are proceeding with their cycle as usual despite COVID.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
About the Ads
Jul 17, 2020
55
264
Status (Visible)
  1. Medical Student
So, I have 1R (BU) and 4 IIs (2 IS Public, 1 OOS Public, and 1 OOS Private). No top-tier schools yet, which is disappointing. I know people will say be happy with what you have, which I am really thankful for, but hope to get recognized for life-long hard-work by at least one top-tier school
Do not let this process pollute your perspective.

Getting an acceptance from ANY US MD school is one heck of an accomplishment, and puts you in a position that thousands wish that they could be in. Whether you go to NYMC or Harvard, you can still compete for the same residencies and have the same initials after your last name.

With all the doctors I've worked with thus far, I don't know where any of them went to school or residency unless they specifically told me. And you know who cares even less? Patients ("Oh you went to X school of medicine? My niece went there and now she's a lab technician at Y community hospital").

Be proud of what you have done, regardless of what USNWR has to say about it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 9 users

gonnif

Rule One: Take a Breath
10+ Year Member
Jul 26, 2009
23,455
39,341
The Big Bad Apple
Status (Visible)
  1. Non-Student
I tell all applicants, from superstars down to re-inventors with the ratio of applications to interview slots at about 5:1 at best, getting 1 interview invite is good, 2 is great, 3 or more you should thank your lucky stars.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 7 users
Jun 24, 2020
1,074
1,272
Status (Visible)
  1. Pre-Medical
Thanks. Statistically thankful. Totally understand that when schools have 100 applicants with similar achievements, they probably go Eeny, meeny, miny, moe and pick some. I still remember once when a friend of ours was stopped for speeding, the officer said "I can't catch all the fish, I catch just one at a time".

But personally, it makes us wonder other than curing cancer or world-hunger - what more could we have done to get recognized at the top-tier schools?
 

EdgeTrimmer

2+ Year Member
May 26, 2018
2,506
1,818
Status (Visible)
  1. Non-Student
Who says that??? Why would "very strong ECs" receive more attention earlier rather than later in the cycle? I would think that would not necessarily be the case, since a file needs to be read in order for "very strong ECs" to be identified. How does an adcom know which files have "very strong ECs" before they read the file?

URM, non-trad, high stat, low SES, etc. can easily be filtered without actually reading a file. How does that happen with ECs, since "very strong" is inherently "very subjective"? :cool:
so you think all the IIs sent initially (say first one month of each school's review period) are sent without reading the file and purely based on the categories you specified or school has?
 
Jun 24, 2020
1,074
1,272
Status (Visible)
  1. Pre-Medical
so you think all the IIs sent initially (say first one month of each school's review period) are sent without reading the file and purely based on the categories you specified or school has?
Doubt if any II is sent without reading the file.
 

KnightDoc

Probationary Status
2+ Year Member
Mar 14, 2019
4,880
5,083
Status (Visible)
  1. Pre-Medical
so you think all the IIs sent initially (say first one month of each school's review period) are sent without reading the file and purely based on the categories you specified or school has?
No. I think, based on what knowledgeable adcoms have posted about how the process works, plus my own common sense, that applications are stratified when they come in and are reviewed out of chronological order, based on whatever priorities the school sets for early review (URM, low SES, high stat, etc.). If you are not in one of those categories, which are determined without reading, you don't get read early, so you don't get an early II. I NEVER suggested IIs go out without a thorough review of the file.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

EdgeTrimmer

2+ Year Member
May 26, 2018
2,506
1,818
Status (Visible)
  1. Non-Student
No. I think, based on what knowledgeable adcoms have posted about how the process works, plus my own common sense, that applications are stratified when they come in and are reviewed out of chronological order, based on whatever priorities the school sets for early review (URM, low SES, high stat, etc.). If you are not in one of those categories, which are determined without reading, you don't get read early, so you don't get an early II. I NEVER suggested IIs go out without a thorough review of the file.
so you are in high stats bucket and applied on first day you may not get II immediately based on the review of the file, correct?
 
Last edited:

spottedcory

2+ Year Member
Aug 17, 2018
442
582
So, I have 1R (BU) and 4 IIs (2 IS Public, 1 OOS Public, and 1 OOS Private). No top-tier schools yet, which is disappointing. I know people will say be happy with what you have, which I am really thankful for, but hope to get recognized for life-long hard-work by at least one top-tier school
To add perspective, I have high stats, 1000+ service, minimal research, and I have one II from 1 OOS private. I started out my cycle thinking I was good not adding more T60-100s but I find myself wishing I had more of those and attention from my IS Publics. Your cycle sounds like it's going great, and those interviews already have recognized your accomplishments!
 

sparkysparkyboomman

2+ Year Member
Aug 27, 2018
133
142
Status (Visible)
  1. Medical Student (Accepted)
I don’t have much to add to what others have said, other than to comment my LM was ~63 and I had 3 IIs and 2 acceptances.


As corny as it may sound, you are more than your stats. It’s still very early in the cycle. Best of luck!
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
About the Ads

stickgirl390

I tell chemistry jokes periodically.
2+ Year Member
Oct 18, 2016
1,706
2,561
Status (Visible)
  1. Medical Student
My personal experience: between MD/DO I ultimately received 8 II, attended 5. At this point in the cycle, I had received 2 of those II. Neither from the school i ended up attending. It’s still very early.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users

sparkysparkyboomman

2+ Year Member
Aug 27, 2018
133
142
Status (Visible)
  1. Medical Student (Accepted)
^ true.

This cycle is totally different. Easier said than done.... but try and shift your mind to other things. Best of luck! I’m sure everything will work out.
 

ChemEtoMD23

Can theoretically manufacture plastic
Oct 14, 2019
223
257
Status (Visible)
  1. Medical Student (Accepted)
I’m definitely feeling worried too. I was complete before August at most of the 24 schools to which I applied, and I was complete at nearly all of them by the middle of August. I’m also fairly high stat, so I had assumed that my app would be reviewed pretty quickly. The fact that I’ve heard from only one school so far makes me think that something was wrong with my app that I wasn’t aware of.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users

gonnif

Rule One: Take a Breath
10+ Year Member
Jul 26, 2009
23,455
39,341
The Big Bad Apple
Status (Visible)
  1. Non-Student
I don't agree, I think at many T20s, chances are high that you Will get early II if the file review is favorable.
But at T20s so many applicants are high stats that may not be enough for early II. I have a buddy who is a professor at an Ivy medical school who like to start first day orientation with "how many of you were valedictorians, graduated Summa or high honors?" Usually most every hand pops up. They he says "look around, now you are just all average."
 
  • Like
  • Haha
  • Love
Reactions: 5 users

EdgeTrimmer

2+ Year Member
May 26, 2018
2,506
1,818
Status (Visible)
  1. Non-Student
But at T20s so many applicants are high stats that may not be enough for early II. I have a buddy who is a professor at an Ivy medical school who like to start first day orientation with "how many of you were valedictorians, graduated Summa or high honors?" Usually most every hand pops up. They he says "look around, now you are just all average."
Discussion was about whether schools initially call high stats just based on stats or after full review of the file. I don't believe any school will send II without full review of the file.
 

KnightDoc

Probationary Status
2+ Year Member
Mar 14, 2019
4,880
5,083
Status (Visible)
  1. Pre-Medical
Discussion was about whether schools initially call high stats just based on stats or after full review of the file. I don't believe any school will send II without full review of the file.
Yeah, so what? What a great insight -- at many T20s, a high stat applicant whose file is reviewed early will receive an II if the full review of the file is favorable. I'm going to write that down so I don't forget it. Yet more unique pearls of wisdom from parents. :laugh::laugh:
 

EdgeTrimmer

2+ Year Member
May 26, 2018
2,506
1,818
Status (Visible)
  1. Non-Student
Yeah, so what? What a great insight -- at many T20s, a high stat applicant whose file is reviewed early will receive an II if the full review of the file is favorable. I'm going to write that down so I don't forget it. Yet more unique pearls of wisdom from parents. :laugh::laugh:
You implied that just stats will be enough. Anyway, enough debate on this with you :)
 

KnightDoc

Probationary Status
2+ Year Member
Mar 14, 2019
4,880
5,083
Status (Visible)
  1. Pre-Medical
You implied that just stats will be enough. Anyway, enough debate on this with you :)
No, I didn't imply anything. I said high stats will get you in the early review pile. Nothing more, nothing less.

No. I think, based on what knowledgeable adcoms have posted about how the process works, plus my own common sense, that applications are stratified when they come in and are reviewed out of chronological order, based on whatever priorities the school sets for early review (URM, low SES, high stat, etc.). If you are not in one of those categories, which are determined without reading, you don't get read early, so you don't get an early II. I NEVER suggested IIs go out without a thorough review of the file.
 
Jul 12, 2020
143
219
Status (Visible)
  1. Pre-Medical
I’m definitely feeling worried too. I was complete before August at most of the 24 schools to which I applied, and I was complete at nearly all of them by the middle of August. I’m also fairly high stat, so I had assumed that my app would be reviewed pretty quickly. The fact that I’ve heard from only one school so far makes me think that something was wrong with my app that I wasn’t aware of.

Also have only heard back from WVU which is my state school.

To be fair, I also now realize that my school list was terrible and waaaaaay too heavy on T20s and low-yields like GW, Georgetown, Jefferson, etc.
 
  • Care
Reactions: 1 user

ChemEtoMD23

Can theoretically manufacture plastic
Oct 14, 2019
223
257
Status (Visible)
  1. Medical Student (Accepted)
Also have only heard back from WVU which is my state school.

To be fair, I also now realize that my school list was terrible and waaaaaay too heavy on T20s and low-yields like GW, Georgetown, Jefferson, etc.
Sorry to hear that. The waiting really does suck. Hopefully we're just experiencing the effects of a delayed cycle.
 
Sep 26, 2020
369
703
Status (Visible)
  1. Pre-Medical
ya boy is very scared now. i was calm in august and september for the most part. but now i wake up shivering when i refresh that inbox and see nothing :( .....granted i have lower end stats, but was hoping that being a career changer with a decent life story would have helped me out. starting to think numbers are the key to success bois.
 

ChemEtoMD23

Can theoretically manufacture plastic
Oct 14, 2019
223
257
Status (Visible)
  1. Medical Student (Accepted)
ya boy is very scared now. i was calm in august and september for the most part. but now i wake up shivering when i refresh that inbox and see nothing :( .....granted i have lower end stats, but was hoping that being a career changer with a decent life story would have helped me out. starting to think numbers are the key to success bois.
I'm right there with you, feeling nervous and sad. If it makes you feel any better, I've been complete for 2-3 months at 24 schools with LM 81, and I've received only a single II.

Edit: I should also probably add that the II which I received (while I'm certainly grateful for it) doesn't give me a ton of hope, because I'm OOS for the school, and their OOS post-II acceptance rate is ~15%.
 
Last edited:
  • Wow
Reactions: 1 user
About the Ads

Your message may be considered spam for the following reasons:

  1. Your new thread title is very short, and likely is unhelpful.
  2. Your reply is very short and likely does not add anything to the thread.
  3. Your reply is very long and likely does not add anything to the thread.
  4. It is very likely that it does not need any further discussion and thus bumping it serves no purpose.
  5. Your message is mostly quotes or spoilers.
  6. Your reply has occurred very quickly after a previous reply and likely does not add anything to the thread.
  7. This thread is locked.