Normal # of IIs

[hopefulmedstudent2021]

What is an average and what is an above average # of interviews to have at this point in the cycle if you submitted your secondaries in mid-late July (i.e., early)? I recognize that this website is not an unbiased survey, but seeing people post about the 10 IIs they already have is stressing me out. Also, I know interview invites will continue to come out for months, but given that they generally peak around September-October, at what point is it safest to assume a school is ghosting or rejecting you? Is that different this year than past years due to COVID?

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[Goro]

For many people, it's zero

 

[Lifeblood_20]

When you see people's profiles on SDN, you do not know anything about them or their application. Are they URM? Veteran? Rhode Scholar? Olympic medalist? Child of med school admissions dean? Non-trad who has had a meaningful career and more life experience/maturity?

What I'm trying to say is, there are many reasons an applicant may have a lot of IIs, and their success does NOT have anything to do with you or your prospects. Every second you stress over someone else's cycle is a second you could have spent improving your chances.

 

[LunaOri]

Keep in mind that some of the people who post about their amazing stats and huge number of interviews are trolls who are trying to upset everyone. :troll:

 

[lumya]

The number also doesn’t matter. Someone can get 10 IIs by August but no acceptances while someone can get one II in February and get in. It’s a very stressful, competitive process but other applicants shouldn’t serve as the measuring stick of your own app (as hard as that is).

 

[deleted1066189]

there's definitely some reporting bias on here at times. The subreddits are even worse honestly.
I have a 3.35~cum, 3.15~sci, 513 MCAT. I applied 50/50 MD DO, and so far I have one state MD II (very blessed ) I'm still waiting on a good 28-30 schools (I was "complete" most places between late August and early September). I'm just doing a gap year job for now so I don't have to worry about it all day.

 

[InFreudWeTrust]

there's definitely some reporting bias on here at times. The subreddits are even worse honestly.

The step 1/2 pages are even worse. If you were to only look at Reddit/SDN data instead of NBME reports, it would be easy to think that you wouldn't match with a sub-245. It's best not to get 'lost' on these forums...

People who do well/extraordinary are more likely to report. For those of you applying, remember that all you need is 1 II and 1 acceptance. There are people who look great on paper and bomb interviews. You could have 20 IIs, it doesn't matter until you have an acceptance in your hand.

 

[Rachapkis]

Somewhere between zero and many, many interview offers, depending, of course, on what your application looks like.

 

[hopefulmedstudent2021]

Thank you so much all. This is reassuring to hear. I know other people shouldn’t serve as a measuring stick of my own success or lack thereof (and I’m happy for people who are doing well in this process!), and I know that at the end of the day all it takes is 1 A This process is just more stressful than I expected it to be, and I think the hurrying up and waiting is the worst part

 

[TragicalDrFaust]

I got my first interview in Jan and second in April. Got accepted to the second school late July. It's not over until classes start. But keep working on your application if you're concerned. But the time March rolled around and I started reapplying, I wished I has done more ECs during the cycle and had thought about retaking the MCAT sooner.

 

[HouseJC]

Agreed, it is very hard to say. As said before many times on SDN, the application is a crapshoot. Different missions, different reviewers, different standards, chance/luck (despite best intentions of Adcoms to be consistent across the board).

I'm an international applicant (Canadian) applying first time to AMCAS and was very grateful to get an II from a US MD school. Going to treat it as my only II Good luck to you in the cycle!

 

[r2med]

1) This year there will be close to 1,000,000 individual applications submitted. But in aggregate schools only have about 175,000 interview slots during the course of the cycle.

I remember seeing 50 or 60k applications number somewhere. Could you please advise where you got the 100k number from?

 

[Microbe_Hunter]

Fwiw I have 3 IIs so far. 2 IS public schools and 1 IS private school. Complete late july- mid august at most places. Non-URM with a 519, 3.9, and nothing too special about my ECs

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

Fwiw I have 3 IIs so far. 2 IS public schools and 1 IS private school. Complete late july- mid august at most places. Non-URM with a 519, 3.9, and nothing too special about my ECs

Why 40 schools?

 

[Microbe_Hunter]

Why 40 schools?

cause I am neurotic and scared I wouldn’t get in if I applied to only 20 schools. Also my app has some small quirks that I don’t want to get into that some adcoms may have found unacceptable

 

[r2med]

No:
there are about 55,000-60,000 applicants
each applicant files on average 16 applications
60,000 applicants x 16 applications each = 960,000 aggregate applications
(this year we will likely exceed 1,000,000)
each school gets very roughly 5,000 individual applications
each school has roughly 1,000 interview slots
each school gives out a several hundred acceptances (both direct and alternate)
each school matriculate about 150-200 first year students

100% students apply
60% get rejected
20% get a single acceptance
20% get multiple acceptance

Thank you. My bad to have read the 1M as 100k.

 

[r2med]

So, I have 1R (BU) and 4 IIs (2 IS Public, 1 OOS Public, and 1 OOS Private). No top-tier schools yet, which is disappointing. I know people will say be happy with what you have, which I am really thankful for, but hope to get recognized for life-long hard-work by at least one top-tier school

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

So, I have 1R (BU) and 4 IIs (2 IS Public, 1 OOS Public, and 1 OOS Private). No top-tier schools yet, which is disappointing. I know people will say be happy with what you have, which I am really thankful for, but hope to get recognized for life-long hard-work by at least one top-tier school

Too early in the cycle to feel disappointed. Some say those with very strong ECs tend to get initial IIs from T20 schools if you are not an URM/Vet/non-trad etc...

 

[KnightDoc]

Too early in the cycle to feel disappointed. Some say those with very strong ECs tend to get initial IIs from T20 schools if you are not an URM/Vet/non-trad etc...

Who says that??? Why would "very strong ECs" receive more attention earlier rather than later in the cycle? I would think that would not necessarily be the case, since a file needs to be read in order for "very strong ECs" to be identified. How does an adcom know which files have "very strong ECs" before they read the file?

URM, non-trad, high stat, low SES, etc. can easily be filtered without actually reading a file. How does that happen with ECs, since "very strong" is inherently "very subjective"?

 

[DNAJB6]

Don't discount Covid delays. This is not a normal cycle, and you can throw out much of the conventional wisdom regarding how quickly the decision process occurs.

 

[Microbe_Hunter]

Some schools are already scheduling interviews into January so I feel like some schools are proceeding with their cycle as usual despite COVID.

 

[InFreudWeTrust]

So, I have 1R (BU) and 4 IIs (2 IS Public, 1 OOS Public, and 1 OOS Private). No top-tier schools yet, which is disappointing. I know people will say be happy with what you have, which I am really thankful for, but hope to get recognized for life-long hard-work by at least one top-tier school

Do not let this process pollute your perspective.

Getting an acceptance from ANY US MD school is one heck of an accomplishment, and puts you in a position that thousands wish that they could be in. Whether you go to NYMC or Harvard, you can still compete for the same residencies and have the same initials after your last name.

With all the doctors I've worked with thus far, I don't know where any of them went to school or residency unless they specifically told me. And you know who cares even less? Patients ("Oh you went to X school of medicine? My niece went there and now she's a lab technician at Y community hospital").

Be proud of what you have done, regardless of what USNWR has to say about it.

 

[r2med]

Thanks. Statistically thankful. Totally understand that when schools have 100 applicants with similar achievements, they probably go Eeny, meeny, miny, moe and pick some. I still remember once when a friend of ours was stopped for speeding, the officer said "I can't catch all the fish, I catch just one at a time".

But personally, it makes us wonder other than curing cancer or world-hunger - what more could we have done to get recognized at the top-tier schools?

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

Who says that??? Why would "very strong ECs" receive more attention earlier rather than later in the cycle? I would think that would not necessarily be the case, since a file needs to be read in order for "very strong ECs" to be identified. How does an adcom know which files have "very strong ECs" before they read the file?

URM, non-trad, high stat, low SES, etc. can easily be filtered without actually reading a file. How does that happen with ECs, since "very strong" is inherently "very subjective"?

so you think all the IIs sent initially (say first one month of each school's review period) are sent without reading the file and purely based on the categories you specified or school has?

 

[r2med]

so you think all the IIs sent initially (say first one month of each school's review period) are sent without reading the file and purely based on the categories you specified or school has?

Doubt if any II is sent without reading the file.

 

[KnightDoc]

so you think all the IIs sent initially (say first one month of each school's review period) are sent without reading the file and purely based on the categories you specified or school has?

No. I think, based on what knowledgeable adcoms have posted about how the process works, plus my own common sense, that applications are stratified when they come in and are reviewed out of chronological order, based on whatever priorities the school sets for early review (URM, low SES, high stat, etc.). If you are not in one of those categories, which are determined without reading, you don't get read early, so you don't get an early II. I NEVER suggested IIs go out without a thorough review of the file.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

No. I think, based on what knowledgeable adcoms have posted about how the process works, plus my own common sense, that applications are stratified when they come in and are reviewed out of chronological order, based on whatever priorities the school sets for early review (URM, low SES, high stat, etc.). If you are not in one of those categories, which are determined without reading, you don't get read early, so you don't get an early II. I NEVER suggested IIs go out without a thorough review of the file.

so you are in high stats bucket and applied on first day you may not get II immediately based on the review of the file, correct?

 

[KnightDoc]

so you are in high stats bucket and applied on first day you may no get II immediately based on the review of the file, correct?

I'm going to DM you on this one!!

 

[spottedcory]

So, I have 1R (BU) and 4 IIs (2 IS Public, 1 OOS Public, and 1 OOS Private). No top-tier schools yet, which is disappointing. I know people will say be happy with what you have, which I am really thankful for, but hope to get recognized for life-long hard-work by at least one top-tier school

To add perspective, I have high stats, 1000+ service, minimal research, and I have one II from 1 OOS private. I started out my cycle thinking I was good not adding more T60-100s but I find myself wishing I had more of those and attention from my IS Publics. Your cycle sounds like it's going great, and those interviews already have recognized your accomplishments!

 

[sparkysparkyboomman]

I don’t have much to add to what others have said, other than to comment my LM was ~63 and I had 3 IIs and 2 acceptances.


As corny as it may sound, you are more than your stats. It’s still very early in the cycle. Best of luck!

 

[Microbe_Hunter]

@sparkysparkyboomman what months did you receive your IIs?

 

[sparkysparkyboomman]

@sparkysparkyboomman what months did you receive your IIs?

Off the top of my head, I wanna say August, September, and December

 

[Microbe_Hunter]

So 66% received before October

chuckles *i’m in danger*

 

[stickgirl390]

My personal experience: between MD/DO I ultimately received 8 II, attended 5. At this point in the cycle, I had received 2 of those II. Neither from the school i ended up attending. It’s still very early.

 

[mvsrocks]

So 66% received before October

chuckles *i’m in danger*

His II's were in a normal cycle. This one's not normal..

 

[sparkysparkyboomman]

^ true.

This cycle is totally different. Easier said than done.... but try and shift your mind to other things. Best of luck! I’m sure everything will work out.

 

[proudofmykids]

so you are in high stats bucket and applied on first day you may not get II immediately based on the review of the file, correct?

I don't agree, I think at many T20s, chances are high that you Will get early II if the file review is favorable.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

But at T20s so many applicants are high stats that may not be enough for early II. I have a buddy who is a professor at an Ivy medical school who like to start first day orientation with "how many of you were valedictorians, graduated Summa or high honors?" Usually most every hand pops up. They he says "look around, now you are just all average."

Discussion was about whether schools initially call high stats just based on stats or after full review of the file. I don't believe any school will send II without full review of the file.

 

[KnightDoc]

Discussion was about whether schools initially call high stats just based on stats or after full review of the file. I don't believe any school will send II without full review of the file.

Yeah, so what? What a great insight -- at many T20s, a high stat applicant whose file is reviewed early will receive an II if the full review of the file is favorable. I'm going to write that down so I don't forget it. Yet more unique pearls of wisdom from parents.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

Yeah, so what? What a great insight -- at many T20s, a high stat applicant whose file is reviewed early will receive an II if the full review of the file is favorable. I'm going to write that down so I don't forget it. Yet more unique pearls of wisdom from parents.

You implied that just stats will be enough. Anyway, enough debate on this with you

 

[KnightDoc]

You implied that just stats will be enough. Anyway, enough debate on this with you

No, I didn't imply anything. I said high stats will get you in the early review pile. Nothing more, nothing less.

No. I think, based on what knowledgeable adcoms have posted about how the process works, plus my own common sense, that applications are stratified when they come in and are reviewed out of chronological order, based on whatever priorities the school sets for early review (URM, low SES, high stat, etc.). If you are not in one of those categories, which are determined without reading, you don't get read early, so you don't get an early II. I NEVER suggested IIs go out without a thorough review of the file.

 

[Homunculus150]

I’m definitely feeling worried too. I was complete before August at most of the 24 schools to which I applied, and I was complete at nearly all of them by the middle of August. I’m also fairly high stat, so I had assumed that my app would be reviewed pretty quickly. The fact that I’ve heard from only one school so far makes me think that something was wrong with my app that I wasn’t aware of.

Also have only heard back from WVU which is my state school.

To be fair, I also now realize that my school list was terrible and waaaaaay too heavy on T20s and low-yields like GW, Georgetown, Jefferson, etc.

 

[NoEyeEyeGuy]

ya boy is very scared now. i was calm in august and september for the most part. but now i wake up shivering when i refresh that inbox and see nothing .....granted i have lower end stats, but was hoping that being a career changer with a decent life story would have helped me out. starting to think numbers are the key to success bois.

 

[NoEyeEyeGuy]

I'm right there with you, feeling nervous and sad. If it makes you feel any better, I've been complete for 2-3 months at 24 schools with LM 81, and I've received only a single II.

Edit: I should also probably add that the II which I received (while I'm certainly grateful for it) doesn't give me a ton of hope, because I'm OOS for the school, and their OOS post-II acceptance rate is ~15%.

wow, it just blows my mind that with such solid stats people are still playing the same waiting game. I would think these schools would be jumping for you guys right away. part of my brain knows there are delays compared to traditional cycles, but im like hmm what are the chances that the delays are impacting 31 of the 33 schools i applied to haha. and then you see people with complete dates way later than your own getting looks already. its a big test, this waiting game. im sure you'll come out on top tho fam.

 

[spottedcory]

Very similar. 80+ LizzyM, complete vast majority in July-August, one interview at lower-ranked OOS school that I have regional ties to, but not expecting much out of due to post-II acceptance rate.

+1 similar boat

 

[capt34500]

+1 similar boat

Wow... I really hope you all get more II's. There should be a second wave of II's coming out next week after Oct 15, no?

 

[spottedcory]

Wow... I really hope you all get more II's. There should be a second wave of II's coming out next week after Oct 15, no?

Hopefully! I'm also hoping it's still early. I'm high stat but I have a service heavy app, and schools would need to actually read my activities description to see my leadership, so maybe they just haven't read my app thoroughly yet

 

[Homunculus150]

Thanks, and a second wave would be really nice! Lol. Maybe I’m out of the loop, but what makes you say there will probably be a second wave of II’s after Oct 15? Do schools usually send a lot of II’s after the traffic rules have lifted?

Since schools start giving acceptances after the 15th, people who already got A’s from their top choices will be taken out of the candidate pool and those people will cancel interviews. Not sure how significant that number is but makes sense if schools send more invites after that.

 

[KnightDoc]

Since schools start giving acceptances after the 15th, people who already got A’s from their top choices will be taken out of the candidate pool and those people will cancel interviews. Not sure how significant that number is but makes sense if schools send more invites after that.

Don't count on this! In normal cycles, people would drop interviews after they started receiving As due to the time and expense involved in attending them. In a world in which interviews are virtual, there is no reason not to take all interviews, just to see what happens. Someone might offer scholarship money that could be used to leverage money from a preferred school. Of course, some people will drop some interviews later in the cycle, but it is unlikely to be anywhere near as prevalent as in years past.

That said, there is no reason in the middle of October to be thinking about a second wave. We are barely in the first wave, which began in August and will extend at least through the end of the year. Many schools do not offer any As in October, and those that do offer relatively few. By most accounts, many schools have not yet released half of their IIs. It is way too early to be thinking that you need to count on a second wave!!

 

[NoEyeEyeGuy]

Don't count on this! In normal cycles, people would drop interviews after they started receiving As due to the time and expense involved in attending them. In a world in which interviews are virtual, there is no reason not to take all interviews, just to see what happens. Someone might offer scholarship money that could be used to leverage money from a preferred school. Of course, some people will drop some interviews later in the cycle, but it is unlikely to be anywhere near as prevalent as in years past.

That said, there is no reason in the middle of October to be thinking about a second wave. We are barely in the first wave, which began in August and will extend at least through the end of the year. Many schools do not offer any As in October, and those that do offer relatively few. By most accounts, many schools have not yet released half of their IIs. It is way too early to be thinking that you need to count on a second wave!!

ouch, that does make a lot of sense. the first paragraph hurts