Northwestern Joins the list

[coop]

got a letter in the mail from NW today (i submitted amcas July 8th) inviting me to fill out the secondary which is online:

https://med-app2001.northwestern.edu/

also at the end you print the whole thing out and mail it in (like pritzker), and when you mail it in they want a copy of your amcas app.

In conclusion, northwestern can be added to both lists, though I wouldn't recommend sending in just the paper amcas without the full supplemental, I don't think they want that. good luck all

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[Hopkins2010]

Thanks for the info coop.

 

[coop]

for those of you curious when they talk about "due date stamp" on their website... When I got the mailing a date had been stamped in the section titled "supplemental due" and another date had been stamped in the section "recommendations due."

my due dates were in early and late september, respectively.

 

[Hopkins2010]

Did you try to edit the field that asks for the AMCAS ID?

It looks like they have it set up for a social security number rather than AMCAS number.

 

[6-8 Weeks]

Originally posted by baylor21:
•Did you try to edit the field that asks for the AMCAS ID?

It looks like they have it set up for a social security number rather than AMCAS number.•

I noticed that as well, but I'll do as the wish. I am particularly impressed with the Word Doc form they set up, it works great and you can data right into the form, spell check it and all right in the form. The PDFs don't have as many features.

 

[heddart]

Originally posted by baylor21:
•Did you try to edit the field that asks for the AMCAS ID?

It looks like they have it set up for a social security number rather than AMCAS number.•

I noticed that too... In the bottom right corner of microsoft words (where it gives you instructions about word/character limits) it says "Social Security Number" instead.... confusing.

On the webpage instructions, however, it explicitly states to "make sure your name and AAMC ID appear at the top of each page" so I guess I'm gonna ignore the SSN data for now. I imagine the glitch will be pointed out to them soon enough and they'll tell us what they really want done.

 

[blingbling]

Just wondering... has anyone that designated Northwestern *not* received this email yet?

 

[USeF]

blingbling, I have not. yet supposedly AMCAS transmitted it to them on 02-Aug...

But I DID have the Change Notification Process button show up today. When I did a print application, my process has still not been Processed [certified 7/7]. yet the schools transmit dates are at the bottom. All but Yale and U Chicago have 'received' my AMCAS. Not sure if it's a partial version of it, or what.. but it further confirms the 1 page theory someone has mentioned.

No grades yet certified, MCAT scores are listed since 7/15 or so. The weirdest part is the transmit to schools dates are all over the place! See the Transmittal Dates.. thread for more info

 

[moo]

I think this is a letter by snail mail. I haven't received it yet, but I have accessed the site using my AMCAS ID and last name (you can't access it if you're not in their database), so I'm sure their mailing is on the way.

 

[TwoSteveSquared]

I haven't received the mail yet. Submitted July 11th

 

[MacGyver]

I pulled the following info from their website:

"The 75 Asian, 67 white, 17 Hispanic, and 8 African American first-year students, as well as 3 who chose not to provide an ethnic self-description, earned MCAT scores of 11.6 in the biological sciences, 11.4 in the physical sciences, and 10 in verbal skills. The Medical School had 7,852 applicants for the 120 non-HPME seats available."

Half of the entire class at NW is Asian? Doesnt that seem a little excessive to you guys? I'm sure they are smart people and qualified but how can NW truly be committed to diversity (like they say they are) and have an ethnic group which comprises at most 15% of the US population take up such a substantial proportion of med school seats?

I looked again at the website and it states that 10% of their class is URM. The city of Chicago is easily 50% minority population.

NW needs to do a better job of training doctors who are representative of society.

Having a class full of Asians is just as bad as having a class full of whites, a completely non-diverse student body.

 

[mdhopeful]

Well MacGyver, I beg to differ. Diversity has little to do with how many people there are who have checked off a certain box. Let's see, there educational, experiential, socioeconomic, physical, and all sorts of diversity. What exactly is "White" or "Asian" anyway? I can think of many different cultures within either of those categories, just as I can within "Black", "Latino" or any other category you choose. I am very sure that Northwestern chooses a very diverse class of unique individuals based on much more than numbers and boxes checked. That might not come across in the little blurb you pasted in. But, hey, if you really believe they don't have a diverse class, save yourself the time and don't apply...

 

[figure five]

calm down, you two

you're making me choke on my grape nuts with laughter

 

[Bruin4Life]

I think what MacGver meant to point out was that NW is not ETHNICALLY diverse. Sure the 75 Asians are not carbon copies of each other and thus they still can represent a diverse group of people.

I agree with MacGver, however, that 75 Asians in their entering class does sound very one-sided, I think MacGver was off with his estimate that Asians make up 15% of the U.S. population. I would venture to say the number is closer to 8%.

 

[jephyboy]

I don't see what all the fuss is about. I think that this argument is just silly. So what, one school has 75 students that are 'asian'. I doesn't bother me at all. Almost all other schools will have a greater percentage of students are of one ethnic background. Why don't you make a big fuss about that? All I'm trying to say is that, if you are qualified, then there shouldn't be a problem.

"NW needs to do a better job of training doctors who are representative of society." Name me one school that has this respresentative population. I don't think that there is any or many at all.

Besides, you can be Russian and still be considered Asian. Maybe all 75 of those asians aren't all of chinese, japanese, etc heritage, there maybe some Russians thrown in there.

 

[MacGyver]

Originally posted by jephyboy:
•I don't see what all the fuss is about. I think that this argument is just silly. So what, one school has 75 students that are 'asian'. I doesn't bother me at all. Almost all other schools will have a greater percentage of students are of one ethnic background. Why don't you make a big fuss about that? All I'm trying to say is that, if you are qualified, then there shouldn't be a problem.

"NW needs to do a better job of training doctors who are representative of society." Name me one school that has this respresentative population. I don't think that there is any or many at all.

Besides, you can be Russian and still be considered Asian. Maybe all 75 of those asians aren't all of chinese, japanese, etc heritage, there maybe some Russians thrown in there. •

You are right on one level. It is their prerogative to have 120 Asian students if they wanted to. I'm also not doubting that they are qualified.

However, when Northwestern specifically makes claims of having a diverse student group I have to laugh when I see these statistics.

Clearly, they have NO claim for the diversity of their class due to the hard facts.

Thats my main problem with this situation, not just merely that there are 75 Asians. But the fact that NW somehow thinks it can have this kind of enrollment and then make some kind of absurd claim that they have a diverse class.

 

[SMW]

Asians can be Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Vietnamese, Cambodian, Indian, etc. etc. I'm sure if you broke the Asian group up into all its components, the class would look diverse eneough to satisfy anyone! I'm also sure all these "Asians" don't really appreciate being lumped together and complained about.!!! For Pete's sake, get a grip!

 

[6-8 Weeks]

Originally posted by SMW:
•Asians can be Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Vietnamese, Cambodian, Indian, etc. etc. I'm sure if you broke the Asian group up into all its components, the class would look diverse eneough to satisfy anyone! I'm also sure all these "Asians" don't really appreciate being lumped together and complained about.!!! For Pete's sake, get a grip!•

Thats very true, the individual ethnicities in the "asian" category are extremely different, and would definitely make the student body "diverse." This is especially true since many "asians" are first generation immigrants and still have their traditional roots in them. Where as say the different ethnicities under the "caucasian" label are generally white americans whose families have been in the united states for generations. I know that they can be german, irish, etc, but unless they are first generation "caucasain" immigrants, they have lost some uniqueness and really are american.
Its understandable that people clump asians together, its really hard to see how "different" asians are unless you are "asian" and around many different asians.
I had the opportunity to go to one of the most diverse universities in the world and had an opportunity to deal with almost any race imaginable.

 

[Bruin4Life]

Northwestern has a different image of what diversity means. For example, I think that when the University of Illinois claims they have a "diverse" student-body, they mean they enroll a good number of URMs, with a balanced distribution of Asians and Whites (which is the case). Nortwestern, on the other hand, mean they have a diverse student-body in terms of other factors, including geography, economics, and life experiences of enrolled students--not racial diversity. There are many people that do not have a problem attending a rather homogenous school. In fact, some may prefer it.

Nonetheless, Northwestern has the right to fill thier class with Pakistani, Indians, Chinese, and Koreans. If they love such students then so be it. In my humble opinion, Northwestern should heed to the recommendations of AAMC, which is to increase the recruitment of memembers of society that can better identify with medically underserved communities and in the process add racial diversity into thier class.

 

[MacGyver]

Originally posted by Bruin4Life:
•In my humble opinion, Northwestern should heed to the recommendations of AAMC, which is to increase the recruitment of memembers of society that can better identify with medically underserved communities and in the process add racial diversity into thier class.•

I agree with you here. Someone pointed out that ALL Asians only make up 8% of the total US population.

So clearly Northwestern is failing with this objective. Of course there are underserved Asian populations, but with the amount of Asian physicians NW is training, they are denying opportunities for the VAST MAJORITY of underserved populations, which overwhelmingly tend to be African-American, Native-American, or Mexican-American. The number of underserved Asian communities compared with these other ethnic underserved communities is miniscule.

Its interesting to see how some people try to skew racial diversity. Do you think a class full of Irish, German, English, and French people is diverse? In the context of the American demographic, NO. In that same manner, a group of Japanese, Chinese, Vietnamese, etc is NOT diverse by American standards because that group of ethinicities DOES NOT draw across a wide range of the American experience. How could they when they represent such a small fraction of the American population.

I think its also interesting that Asian-Americans HEAVILY supported affirmative action programs in the first years of their existence but now have changed their tune.

There are several Asian interest groups that are now actively lobbying against AA.

 

[6-8 Weeks]

Originally posted by MacGyver:
•
the VAST MAJORITY of underserved populations, which overwhelmingly tend to be African-American, Native-American, or Mexican-American. The number of underserved Asian communities compared with these other ethnic underserved communities is miniscule.

•

Right, if NW does recruit exactly as the demographics dictate, that doesn't mean that each underserved population gets a couple of physicians who came from their community. I doubt that. Perhaps there are more asians willing to return and serve their ethnic groups than there are say native-americans willing to return to their respective communities. There is a large proportion of asians at NW, but that doesn't mean that "none" of them will serve say, a predominately african-american community. Race demographics cannot be the letter of the law, but a guideline, yes. The return-rate will blur the guidelines a bit, but when they weigh in other qualifying factors, that will certainly skew the proportions substantially.

 

[Dr Krazy]

back to the original topic of this thread....

is NW invite only? in other words, should i not send in their secondary and whatnot until i receive an email/snail mail from them?

 

[MacGyver]

Originally posted by 4-6 Weeks:
•Right, if NW does recruit exactly as the demographics dictate, that doesn't mean that each underserved population gets a couple of physicians who came from their community. I doubt that. Perhaps there are more asians willing to return and serve their ethnic groups than there are say native-americans willing to return to their respective communities. There is a large proportion of asians at NW, but that doesn't mean that "none" of them will serve say, a predominately african-american community. Race demographics cannot be the letter of the law, but a guideline, yes. The return-rate will blur the guidelines a bit, but when they weigh in other qualifying factors, that will certainly skew the proportions substantially.•

Well, I personally dont believe that Asians are likely to treat underserved communities that arent Asian. Of course, neither are any of the other ethnic groups. That is, Mexican-Americans tend to treat Mexican-Americans, Native-Americans tend to treat Native-Americans, and Asian-Americans tend to treat Asians.

Now if you are NOT talking about underserved communities, then I agree with you there may be a little more free flow between racial demographics. But I dont think Asians are more mobile than any other ethnic group.

But in the context of underserved communities, I think the statistics are clear that the doctors who serve such communities OVERWHELMINGLY tend to be doctors of the same ethnic group of the population in that underserved area. There are a few exceptions of course, but by and large the trend of any ethnic group of doctors treating an underserved community whose ethnic makeup does not closely mirror the ethnic makeup of the doctors is quite rare.

Dr Krazy,

I'm not applying to NW, but others I know have been able to log on without receiving the letter in the mail.

I dont think NW screens at this stage.

 

[6-8 Weeks]

Originally posted by MacGyver:
•
But in the context of underserved communities, I think the statistics are clear that the doctors who serve such communities OVERWHELMINGLY tend to be doctors of the same ethnic group of the population in that underserved area.

•

Mac, I'm not saying that there is a large amount of asians who want to serve populations they are not from. Yes, it is more common for mexican-americans to serve mexican-americans, but I know for a fact that the return rate for mexican-americans (mexican-american physicians serving underserved mexican-american areas) is very low. With that in mind, how can schools recruit to help full the need for mexican-americans physicians in underserved areas? You're not getting my point, please read my earlier post carefully. Just because one would "assume" mexican-americans are more likely to return to their community doesn't mean that they will, or that they will do a good job. I'll say this again, yes the demographics should dictate the proportions of the entering class, but once you weigh in other qualifications such as academic competency and personal character, the proportions will certainly be skewed. Yes, we want mexican-american physcians to return and help OVERWHELIMINGLY underserved mexican-american communities, but I doubt anyone would sacrifice quality medical care just to satisfy the numbers.

In addition, I doubt that the URM applicant pool is as large as say the "white" or "asian" pool. Again, this will certainly skew the proportions. This lack of qualified URM applicants is an issue in and of it self and should be addressed much earlier than at medical school admissions.

 

[qwert]

Originally posted by jephyboy:
•
Besides, you can be Russian and still be considered Asian. Maybe all 75 of those asians aren't all of chinese, japanese, etc heritage, there maybe some Russians thrown in there. •

Cant believe i'm reading that... You may need to go through your elementary schools textbooks before going to any interviews...