This question is for any Feinberg students who have started or completed their rotations at NMH...what do you think of the clinical training at the hospital? I've heard mixed things about it, that because it's such a posh private hospital it tends to get a more affluent patient base and you see less interesting cases, is this true?
Northwestern Memorial Hospital?
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I don't believe so.
It does probably have a little more affluent of a patient base. But you're still going to see patients from every socioeconomic background. Despite it's Streeterville location, it's still a major referral center for all over the city, so you'll see plenty of interesting cases. You still see gunshot wounds in the ER. You still get TB cases. You might even catch a Cubs player (or minor leaguer) in the OR during ortho. You'll probably do part of your medicine rotation at the VA west side, where every patient has COPD + (insert rare disease here). OB/Gyn is done at Prentice, the busiest birthing center in the Midwest. Peds rotations are done at Children's Memorial, where you will probably see more interesting cases than all but a few places in the country. And despite it's Lincoln Park location, it truly does cater to patients all over the city. At least 1/4 of my patients families there were Spanish-speaking only (which is probably nothing for a city like LA, but in Chicago, that's quite a bit).
If you're still concerned that you would like to devote more time to working with patients with less access to health care, there are a number of community health clinics that NU students run/volunteer at around the city.
It was a good place to train...glad I chose it.
It does probably have a little more affluent of a patient base. But you're still going to see patients from every socioeconomic background. Despite it's Streeterville location, it's still a major referral center for all over the city, so you'll see plenty of interesting cases. You still see gunshot wounds in the ER. You still get TB cases. You might even catch a Cubs player (or minor leaguer) in the OR during ortho. You'll probably do part of your medicine rotation at the VA west side, where every patient has COPD + (insert rare disease here). OB/Gyn is done at Prentice, the busiest birthing center in the Midwest. Peds rotations are done at Children's Memorial, where you will probably see more interesting cases than all but a few places in the country. And despite it's Lincoln Park location, it truly does cater to patients all over the city. At least 1/4 of my patients families there were Spanish-speaking only (which is probably nothing for a city like LA, but in Chicago, that's quite a bit).
If you're still concerned that you would like to devote more time to working with patients with less access to health care, there are a number of community health clinics that NU students run/volunteer at around the city.
It was a good place to train...glad I chose it.
vn2004 said:
earmuffs said:
ok yeah, i was surprised when i heard that there weren't many interesting cases, because the hospital is pretty large and i figured it would get plenty of referrals from other hospitals in the midwest. thanks for the info!
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No problem
Like the doogie picture. And if it says anything about patient demographics at NMH & CMH, I've had multiple patients there tell me I look like NPH. "Not from his doogie howser days, but from Harold and Kumar when he's doing lines off the stripper's a$$."
=)
Like the doogie picture. And if it says anything about patient demographics at NMH & CMH, I've had multiple patients there tell me I look like NPH. "Not from his doogie howser days, but from Harold and Kumar when he's doing lines off the stripper's a$$."
=)
vn2004 said:
well, i've heard that because of the more affluent pt base, they're less amenable to having med students take a strong role in pt care.
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When patients are admitted, they sign a form saying that they recognize this is a teaching hospital and students will be poking and prodding. If they don't like it they can go somewhere else.
I'm not sure if they weed out people this way or what, but I've never had a patient ask me to leave or request a resident instead for what I was doing. That's only happened to me once, and that was on OB/Gyn when the patient was a resident and preferred to not have any (male) students in the room for her exam. One day I delivered a baby by myself (no docs, no nurses...it was the woman's 9th baby, so the thing freakin' crawled out on its own before anybody else even made it in there). We get to do (under supervision, of course) I&D's, nasogastric tubes, blood draws, arterial blood gases, LPs, central line changes, stitching, maybe some cutting with the Bovie in the OR, and whatever other procedures I'm forgetting. Some of my classmates have been 1st responders to codes and fractured some ribs doing chest compressions. A few of us have done a paracentesis (there's something so cool about sticking a giant needle into somebody's abdomen).
The experience is whatever you make of it. As long as you're willing to make an effort to get in there & learn, you'll have a chance to do all sorts of cool stuff.
I'm not sure if they weed out people this way or what, but I've never had a patient ask me to leave or request a resident instead for what I was doing. That's only happened to me once, and that was on OB/Gyn when the patient was a resident and preferred to not have any (male) students in the room for her exam. One day I delivered a baby by myself (no docs, no nurses...it was the woman's 9th baby, so the thing freakin' crawled out on its own before anybody else even made it in there). We get to do (under supervision, of course) I&D's, nasogastric tubes, blood draws, arterial blood gases, LPs, central line changes, stitching, maybe some cutting with the Bovie in the OR, and whatever other procedures I'm forgetting. Some of my classmates have been 1st responders to codes and fractured some ribs doing chest compressions. A few of us have done a paracentesis (there's something so cool about sticking a giant needle into somebody's abdomen).
The experience is whatever you make of it. As long as you're willing to make an effort to get in there & learn, you'll have a chance to do all sorts of cool stuff.
sanford_w/o_son said:
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Even if they sign that form, the patients can and do refuse (although it is relatively rare). truth is they cant really hold the patients to that form and rarely try to enforce it.
To be fair even though some patients (medicare and medicaid) do not have the option to eliminate students from their care my experience is that their wishes are respected. Never had a problem except an occasional Ob/GYn case.
To be fair even though some patients (medicare and medicaid) do not have the option to eliminate students from their care my experience is that their wishes are respected. Never had a problem except an occasional Ob/GYn case.
Northwestern's administration is nothing but a money-making machine. I know one of the ER doctors there who has, on several occassions, tried to give up his yearly bonus in order to hire a Spanish translator or to provide a pharmacy option for those w/o insurance at NU. Both times he was knocked down and told, "We don't want to attract that type of people here." How's that for a hospital?!? Not to mention that I know for a fact that NU praises themselves in being one of the only nonprofit hospitals that actually makes a profit. Awesome. They do this by outsourcing everything possible and not "attracting that type of people".
Oh, and Children's Memorial has "Medicaid Wednesdays" or something like that. Where that's the only time, unless you have an emergency, that people on Medicaid can really get an appointment.
For a city as large, poor, and diverse as Chicago, I highly doubt NU is the place to see a variety of cases and to get the best clinical experience.
Oh, and Children's Memorial has "Medicaid Wednesdays" or something like that. Where that's the only time, unless you have an emergency, that people on Medicaid can really get an appointment.
For a city as large, poor, and diverse as Chicago, I highly doubt NU is the place to see a variety of cases and to get the best clinical experience.
I'm sorry if that was a bit harsh, but as someone who is genuinely concerned and works with the health care system in Chicago, NU is an extremely frustrating place. The worst part is, most people don't even realize it.
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EF: Yep, I absolutely agree with you. They do that everywhere, and very few patients anywhere will usually ever have a problem with med student involvement. Though I probably didn't state it very clearly, my point was just my classmates and I very rarely come across patients with a sense of entitlement that they don't have to see students because of who they are.
YinYin: I'm not going to get into what you do and do not know for a "fact". What I am saying is that from the medical student perspective, you see patients from all socioeconomic backgrounds and you get to participate in procedures. While their patient population is very different than what you would see at the VA or Cook County (and students can rotate thru VA-West Side for several different 3rd & 4th year clerkships), there is very large racial, ethnic, and economic diversity in our patient population.
And if you don't feel that you are seeing a broad enough of a patient population, or just have the desire to help people in need (which I hope is the reason most people are becoming doctors), there are plenty of extracurricular opportunities to see more patients with poor access to health care. I would say the majority of students volunteer at various free health clinics & other youth education projects throughout the city here in their time at NU. There's a clinic in Chinatown, the Ashland clinic (more Hispanic), the Erie clinic (near west side), the Devon clinic (more of an Indian patient population, from what I've been told), some of us head over to Cabrini Green for youth programs. I tried to get an affiliation going with another free health clinic site in the Garfield Park area, but we couldn't really work out the logistics of it. There are opportunities to do this at the international level as well.
Hope this helps, and best of luck to all those applying.
YinYin: I'm not going to get into what you do and do not know for a "fact". What I am saying is that from the medical student perspective, you see patients from all socioeconomic backgrounds and you get to participate in procedures. While their patient population is very different than what you would see at the VA or Cook County (and students can rotate thru VA-West Side for several different 3rd & 4th year clerkships), there is very large racial, ethnic, and economic diversity in our patient population.
And if you don't feel that you are seeing a broad enough of a patient population, or just have the desire to help people in need (which I hope is the reason most people are becoming doctors), there are plenty of extracurricular opportunities to see more patients with poor access to health care. I would say the majority of students volunteer at various free health clinics & other youth education projects throughout the city here in their time at NU. There's a clinic in Chinatown, the Ashland clinic (more Hispanic), the Erie clinic (near west side), the Devon clinic (more of an Indian patient population, from what I've been told), some of us head over to Cabrini Green for youth programs. I tried to get an affiliation going with another free health clinic site in the Garfield Park area, but we couldn't really work out the logistics of it. There are opportunities to do this at the international level as well.
Hope this helps, and best of luck to all those applying.
i can't help but agree with your sentiment, yin yin. nmh is the only hospital in chicago not operating in "the red." people with good insurance go to nmh, which i'm sure has to do with location as well as marketing efforts and nice pt accomodations (the place is like a freaking hotel). meanwhile, other community hospitals a few miles away (mercy h, michael reece h, lincoln park h) are operating in the red. u of c scrapes by on its reputation for certain specialized services like cx treatment, which has a strong regional attraction for pts with insurance. ultimately, i must blame our ridiculous private insurance system, which encourages hospitals to compete for insured pts and try to avoid non-insured pts, (rather than a public insurance system embedded in a more rational, centrally coordinated hospital system). still, because of nmh's position in this inequitable system and their embracement of the competitive capitalist model, i have a hard time respecting them. even though my stats are competitive there and it's a good school in a fun location, i don't think i will apply there.
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