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so there's an upcoming retreat for the new interns and current residents. it's some camping type thing for an entire weekend...friday to monday morning. i'm not at all into camping, kayaking, sitting around singing kumbaya, or much of any outdoorsy activity. i seriously don't want to sleep in some cabin or tent out in the middle of the woods with a bunch of other residents either. yes i admit i'm a bit of a bore. i'm not into the extracurricular stuff it seems every resident brags about being into (surfing, skiiing, marathons, climbing mountains, whatever). i come home and eat, play some video games, watch some tv, surf the net, and go to bed. so what's the best way to get out of this? tell them for reals i'm not interested and don't go or make up some excuse about being "busy" with other plans that weekend.
 

smq123

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Why not just go? :confused: You might not like camping, but getting to know your fellow residents before orientation is an opportunity that I wouldn't pass up. You will seriously spend more time with them than you will with your family (or with video games), and "bonding" with them can be useful.

Seriously, suck it up for a weekend and go. You don't want to be known as a reclusive, anti-social guy before you even start intern year.
 
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Why not just go? :confused: You might not like camping, but getting to know your fellow residents before orientation is an opportunity that I wouldn't pass up. You will seriously spend more time with them than you will with your family (or with video games), and "bonding" with them can be useful.

Seriously, suck it up for a weekend and go. You don't want to be known as a reclusive, anti-social guy before you even start intern year.
there's going to be an entire week of orientation where i will get to meet the other interns/residents before this camping thing. besides i'm going to be with these people daily for years so i don't think a weekend in the woods is going to make much difference as far as "bonding" goes. as far as sucking it up and going...well i'm kind of tired of doing things just for the sake of doing them. i'm going to be a doctor in a couple of months...so i'm tired of playing the same games we had to play during med school to please people. yeah i know "just" an intern, but a doctor nonetheless. the email they sent didn't even ASK if we were available to go...it was worded like we're expected to go to this woodland gathering.
 

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aProgDirector

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as far as sucking it up and going...well i'm kind of tired of doing things just for the sake of doing them. i'm going to be a doctor in a couple of months...so i'm tired of playing the same games we had to play during med school to please people.
Sadly, I think you will find that internship is not all that different from medical school, and you'll still be trying to please people. "Grades" are clearly less important / not present in residency, but sometimes that makes things more difficult, not less.

As far as what to do, I think you're stuck with a tough choice. If the orientation time is paid, then you need to go (or perhaps they simply wouldn't pay you for those days). If it's unpaid, then technically it's illegal (or, a better term would be "optional") and you can simply refuse to go. If you go, sounds like you've already decided you'll be miserable. If you don't go, you might be known as "the guy who didn't go". You might not care about that, but it could separate you socially from your class.

In the big picture, you sound half burnt out already. That's not good.

Also, start thinking ahead for next year. As a rising PGY-2, you'll be expected to go on this trip. You might want to volunteer to be on call / working that weekend. If they cover all the residents to go, then you'll have to go next year (or come back to work).
 
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Sadly, I think you will find that internship is not all that different from medical school, and you'll still be trying to please people. "Grades" are clearly less important / not present in residency, but sometimes that makes things more difficult, not less.
i don't mind if it's part of the job. they're paying me to work, so i will work and put up with it to get through.

In the big picture, you sound half burnt out already. That's not good.
it's more that i realize this is yet another phony display. i know these people aren't really my friends, we just happened to end up at the same residency. but there are too many examples of "friends" betraying their fellow residents or ostracizing them later on in residency. so i'm going in knowing nobody really cares about you in residency except you. no camping trip or other "friendly" get together is going to fool me into thinking these people care about any other resident except for themselves when it comes right down to it.
 
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People are also brought together by mutual suffering (residency). You should take the other approach and realize that if you work towards building a stronger bond with them, then you will have less to worry about politics and back stabbing. Group bonding and cohesiveness is far better than what you are advocating.

You are human, and as a human there will be politics in your life. Best to make them good from the get go. Glass is half full.
 

glade

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What was stated before by aProgDirector is incorrect.

The two choices are not 1) it is paid for and therefore mandatory or 2) it is not and therefore is optional but highly encouraged.

I'm not sure who came up with this notion that you get a salary from residency and therefore you have to do anything they say. For example, if your PD told you next year that your job was to clean the hospital toilets with your bare hands and a bar of soap, I'm sure someone on here would authoritatively tell you that this falls under your "duties" that you signed for.

I'm not saying going camping and kayaking constitute torture, but if you don't want to go I'd be hard pressed to buy any argument that it falls under residency duties. You'd actually have to be a total tool to try that line.

The bottom line is that every year some residency somewhere tries to pull some lame "mandate" that exceeds its bounds. And usually they succeed because they have all the control and the residents have none. Odds are, you'll end up going to this dingleberry retreat where you guys perform reach-arounds on each other at night. All I'm saying is that you should recognize that it's 1) NOT part of your residency requirements or anything that can possibly fall under a contract, 2) reflects on your PD for making it "mandatory" as being a tool, and 3) lame.
 

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I think you should go. Think of it as cross training. You may learn how to function in a team setting with your future teammates. You’ll learn to step out of your comfort zone, because internship is definitely not comfortable.

If it’s like most of my camping excursions, there will be alcoh – um… I mean socializing - by the campfire. This will be an excellent opportunity to really pick the brains of the senior residents about the inner workings/politics of the program, the attendings, the nurses, etc. So what if they're not your friends? Your fellow residents will someday be your future colleagues, your future potential referral sources if you decide to pursue fellowship and subspecialty training. It is entirely possible that one of those senior residents may be your new attending someday. Medicine is a social field. Learn how to schmooze now.

Even though it’s likely optional, it sounds like you are expected to go. And like aPD said, you don’t want to be tagged as the Gloomy Gus. So go. Keep an open mind (a skill you’ll need throughout medicine). You might learn something. You might even have a little fun in the process. Worse case scenario, you and your fellow interns can bond over how lame the retreat actually is.
 

glade

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I just wanted to point out how many people, most of whom are attendings, are saying that you "don't want to be tagged as the Gloomy Gus." Meanwhile, anyone who has been in residency for more than two months knows that attendings don't care about their image with regards to residents. None of them are saying, "man, I hope the residents don't think I'm a Gloomy Gus or some other expletive-laden name. I'd better be nicer to them."

If you go to this retreat, use the time to swap stories with the incoming interns about their attendings, including mannerisms and idiosyncracies. It's the best times. :D
 

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I agree with you that it is silly that you are expected to go to things like this, but I do think it might be worthwhile. In residency (like many other human endeavours) being well-liked and a "team player" means more than how much you know. Since you are still at the stage where your seniors can make life difficult for you if they want to, it might be worth it to make sure you don't ruffle any feathers.
 

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it's more that i realize this is yet another phony display. i know these people aren't really my friends, we just happened to end up at the same residency. but there are too many examples of "friends" betraying their fellow residents or ostracizing them later on in residency. so i'm going in knowing nobody really cares about you in residency except you.
so what's the best way to get out of this? tell them for reals i'm not interested and don't go or make up some excuse about being "busy" with other plans that weekend.
Sounds like you've already decided that they're all out to get you.

It also sounds like you really don't care what they think of you.

So why bother with the pretense and make up an excuse about being busy? Why not just start the year by being honest and saying, "I hate camping, none of you are my friends, and I would rather stay at home and watch TV than get to know any of you better." I think that they'll find your honesty refreshing. And, like you said, it's all a lot of phoniness, so why perpetuate it by being phony yourself?
 

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no camping trip or other "friendly" get together is going to fool me into thinking these people care about any other resident except for themselves when it comes right down to it.
You have a problem dude. Don't, for one minute, think how good you are is all there is to it. Personality, getting along with your co-workers and being liked can go a long way. If they like you, a lot of things can be overlooked. If they don't like you, well...
 

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[Sincere advice] Postcall, if you start an SSRI now, it should be at therapeutic levels by the time you start residency. [/Sincere advice]
 

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I really wish to believe that the OP has a genuine problem, but I just dont see it. SDN is getting more and more ridiculous by the day.

Just go. Are you seriously that anti-social?

And your theory that none of your co-residents will turn out to be your friends is one of the most ridiculous things I have read on this forum...and after the match, I have read A LOT of ridiculous things on this forum...this has to take the cake though.

Its residency in which you make a significant number of lifelong relationships, because you need to look out for each other. In fellowships, the sample size decreases by a tenth...
 

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Its residency in which you make a significant number of lifelong relationships, because you need to look out for each other. In fellowships, the sample size decreases by a tenth...
Yep. I am much closer to my former residency colleagues than I am to many of my friends from college. Its the shared experiences, especially during difficult times, that bond you together.

I realize that time off is precious and no one likes these retreat things, but initial impressions are important and if you come off as not being a team member, it may come back to bite you when you need something from your colleagues. I think you're making a mistake by not going, FWIW.
 
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initial impressions are important and if you come off as not being a team member, it may come back to bite you when you need something from your colleagues. I think you're making a mistake by not going, FWIW.
Agreed. This is the "real world" (sort of). In most jobs regardless of field, you are going to need to get along with your colleagues, and part of that is by making appearances at these sorts of social events. It sounds like you may not have selected the right residency program, but regardless, you should give it a chance. OP: as a fellow cynic, I also feel that friendships should be earned and not automatically given, but realize that at a bare minimum, a you need to make a totally neutral impression (a good impression will obviously help, and a bad impression is probably a lot more fatal than you think). Perhaps you are subconsciously manifesting/projecting some sort of internal anxiety, although you really need to do a lot of soul searching for this one. You don't have a realistic choice about going vs not going, so you should come up with a way to compromise with yourself on this situation. I have found that Klonopin 0.25 SL works fantastically for me for such occasions (and family reunions), though really you may need to gain some insight/strength for the long term. (There is no chemical solution to a spiritual problem) If it helps, keep your phone with you and subtly SMS close friends throughout the experience.
 

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Sounds like you've already decided that they're all out to get you.

It also sounds like you really don't care what they think of you.

So why bother with the pretense and make up an excuse about being busy? Why not just start the year by being honest and saying, "I hate camping, none of you are my friends, and I would rather stay at home and watch TV than get to know any of you better." I think that they'll find your honesty refreshing. And, like you said, it's all a lot of phoniness, so why perpetuate it by being phony yourself?
Seriously?

:rolleyes:
pleez.
 

Eta Carinae

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Are you seriously that anti-social?
Dude, really?

Psych rotation a forgotten experience?

Timothy McVeigh or KSM are anti-social.

Not someone who prefers solitude.

Has the OP indicated a desire to bomb the hospital, perhaps to you via PM? (I seriously doubt he has). That would fit your diagnosis of, "anti-social".

:rolleyes:
 
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Eta Carinae

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Yep. I am much closer to my former residency colleagues than I am to many of my friends from college. Its the shared experiences, especially during difficult times, that bond you together.

I realize that time off is precious and no one likes these retreat things, but initial impressions are important and if you come off as not being a team member, it may come back to bite you when you need something from your colleagues. I think you're making a mistake by not going, FWIW.
A bit of refreshing honesty. :thumbup:

I'm not looking forward to it myself but, if my med school experience is anything to go by, sometimes you find that you enjoy the time with your colleagues inspite of your initial inertia/reluctance.

You never know. Some of the best and most lasting relationships were developed during our class' dreaded three days away at camp.

I literally had to drag myself to it because I honestly wasn't excited about swapping bug repellant with strangers. But it turned out to be refreshing after all, if only for the fact that the hottest guys were de-deified by their snoring and poor comic skills.

And the class dorks were at least validated for their musical prowess...
 

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I avoided my class in medical school. I had nothing in common with them, and I'm glad that I never took part in anything because I would have been bored senseless.
 
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you guys have a point about being well liked is often more important than how good you are. like when some idiot residents who knew less than us 3rd/4th year med students but they were "friends" with everybody and advanced through while some super smart residents who were reserved or not as fake friendly were on probation or not renewed. so i guess i'll make it easier on myself and go to this thing even though i don't want to. like showing up and acting interested on some rotations we weren't interested in during med school. same old dog and pony show. fake it til u make it. can't wait until i finally make it as an attending and can ignore things i don't want to be a part of without represcussion. like the one attending i knew who never bothers showing up to the hospital's big christmas party or to the annual residency graduation ceremony in his own department. or like those locums who come in, do their job, get their money, and go home.
 

Eta Carinae

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I avoided my class in medical school. I had nothing in common with them, and I'm glad that I never took part in anything because I would have been bored senseless.
If you went to my med school, I probably know who you are...

M?!? Is that you?! Where you been?!?!!!!
 

Eta Carinae

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We had this one guy in our med school class who never showed up to anything.

Never went to class, class gatherings, socials...streamed all our basic science lectures.

Even when he showed up to mandatory group case discussions, he'd appear with a baseball hat and his face hidden. I kid you not, the first time I ever saw this guy's face fully was when we transitioned to clinics THIRD YEAR (he had to lose the hat).

We all loved him, I mean he was the sweetest guy but he just liked his alone time A LOT. I think he won our class award for like, "Invisible man" or something.

He was still a really great student and a great team member. Everyone knew you could rely on him for anything and he gave the most thorough pt presentations (all strictly from memory).

Point being, there is such a spectrum of human behavior and it is perfectly acceptable to exist on any point in that continuum.

I find it idiosyncratic to the American culture to expect everyone to be sanguine and ebullient. To be honest as long as my colleagues are competent, dependable and are committed to their work, I could care less if they do stand up comedy on the side. And we don't all have to be BFFs.

Frankly, I tend to be more suspicious of the entertaining, charming personalities. In many cases it provides an effective cover-up for egregious deficiencies in knowledge or work ethic, or they're playing politics for chief and it's not sincere.


BTW, "M" ranked #1 and matched to Minnesota. He just didn't want to be around people. :laugh:
 
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smq123

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but initial impressions are important and if you come off as not being a team member, it may come back to bite you when you need something from your colleagues.
Point being, there is such a spectrum of human behavior and it is perfectly acceptable to exist on any point in that continuum.

I find it idiosyncratic to the American culture to expect everyone to be sanguine and ebullient. To be honest as long as my colleagues are competent, dependable and are committed to their work, I could care less if they do stand up comedy on the side. And we don't all have to be BFFs.

Frankly, I tend to be more suspicious of the entertaining, charming personalities. In many cases it provides an effective cover-up for egregious deficiencies in knowledge or work ethic, or they're playing politics for chief and it's not sincere.
No one is saying that everyone has to be the life of the party. Nor is anyone faulting the OP for not being bubbly, charismatic, or charming. And certainly, no one is pointing fingers at the OP for not being "sanguine and ebullient."

But as you said, there's a continuum. Being reasonably civil and social does not require being entertaining or being a standup comedian. And it doesn't trap you into being someone's "BFF" when you don't want to be.

As WS said, it does tend to make things easier down the line when you have some kind of a relationship with your fellow residents. Exchanging call nights, covering for each other, etc. - it's easier to ask for favors when these people know you beyond just saying hi in the hallways.

And assuming that someone who is charming and vivacious is hiding a big gap in their knowledge base is like assuming that someone who is a quiet loner and "Aspergers"-ish is also hiding a big gap in their knowledge base.

It's a cliche, but your fellow residents are an enormous source of information and having a decent relationship with them (not even being "BFFs") is helpful. Senior residents can walk you through the licensing process and can be very helpful when you have questions about fellowships. Comparing notes with your fellow interns is also helpful - whether it just be venting that intern year sucks, or trying to figure out if a certain attending treats everyone that way or just particularly dislikes you. :laugh:

Finally, internship is a difficult and often humbling experience. Walking in there with an attitude that you're too cool for this is likely going to bite you in the rear later on, particularly when you need to ask someone for help or admit that you made a mistake (which is bound to happen sooner or later).
 

peppy

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While I do agree that going to the retreat is probably best for the sake of appearances and politics, I wouldn't say that one needs to go to a retreat to be a civil and social person. I am friendly with everyone at work, but I do have a life outside of work and I'd really resent it too if my residency program expected me to go to a camping trip all weekend (thankfully, I have a very reasonable and wonderful PD who has made our social events low-pressure and they NEVER last more than a few hours).

I think it's kind of ridiculous for a program to just take it for granted that people have nothing better to do than be with their coworkers for an entire weekend. What about people who have kids? I bet a lot of people would sympathize more if the OP were a new mom who didn't want to be away from her baby for an entire weekend.

Even for single people, moving to a new city can be very tiring. I just wanted to relax and check out my new city the weekend after I moved for my internship. While I don't have a problem with my coworkers, being around them isn't all that relaxing for me since you still have to be careful about what kind of image you're projecting with people from your job.
 

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Note: not wanting to be forced to go camping and sleep in tents with other people who you don't know doesn't constitute bonding. And neither does it constitute "being civil." It's exactly what it is. Next time you guys want to throw that lecture down, throw it down on yourselves when your wife wants you to spend your vacation with the in-laws or something.

Funny how people can understand THAT being a lousy waste of time and yet if you link it to residency, they'll all immediately bend over and grab their ankles and spread their cheeks enthusiastically.
 

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No one is saying that everyone has to be the life of the party. Nor is anyone faulting the OP for not being bubbly, charismatic, or charming. And certainly, no one is pointing fingers at the OP for not being "sanguine and ebullient."

But as you said, there's a continuum. Being reasonably civil and social does not require being entertaining or being a standup comedian. And it doesn't trap you into being someone's "BFF" when you don't want to be.

As WS said, it does tend to make things easier down the line when you have some kind of a relationship with your fellow residents. Exchanging call nights, covering for each other, etc. - it's easier to ask for favors when these people know you beyond just saying hi in the hallways.

And assuming that someone who is charming and vivacious is hiding a big gap in their knowledge base is like assuming that someone who is a quiet loner and "Aspergers"-ish is also hiding a big gap in their knowledge base.

It's a cliche, but your fellow residents are an enormous source of information and having a decent relationship with them (not even being "BFFs") is helpful. Senior residents can walk you through the licensing process and can be very helpful when you have questions about fellowships. Comparing notes with your fellow interns is also helpful - whether it just be venting that intern year sucks, or trying to figure out if a certain attending treats everyone that way or just particularly dislikes you. :laugh:

Finally, internship is a difficult and often humbling experience. Walking in there with an attitude that you're too cool for this is likely going to bite you in the rear later on, particularly when you need to ask someone for help or admit that you made a mistake (which is bound to happen sooner or later).
as glade pointed out, reluctance to "go away" with non-intimate friends hardly constitutes incivility.

You can get "information" from your fellow residents without taking baths together in the community lake :laugh:
C'mon, I'm working very closely with one of the senior residents at the program I matched to. He's a useful resource for finding a place, working out parking/commuting and handy tips for recreational spots etc. I haven't even met him yet, let alone swam in a lake with him.

The Asperger label is unwarranted.
Being introverted and reserved is hardly a medical illness.
Just as being gregarious should not immediately be equated with obsequiousness.

PLEASE JUST STOP
Like seriously, he's reluctant to go- so be it. It doesn't make him or me or anyone else with the same sentiments EVIL or defective.

:rolleyes:
 

glade

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Amazingly, the 99% of residents who didn't go on lame retreats with each other in America still manage to work together. This is mind-boggling, as I thought that this could best be accomplished by driving to some forest somewhere and not bathing for seven days and taking dumps next to each other. Nothing really inspires camaraderie like squatting next to your co-intern in the dirt and grinning at them while you squeeze out a dookie and then ask them to pass a handful of leaves. I mean, after that you won't mind the smell of the post-call call room at all. So I can actually see the point of all the colossal tools and losers who are pro-retreats.

No, just kidding, I can't.
 

Ludicolo

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Glade - your camping experiences must be way different from mine:

Odds are, you'll end up going to this dingleberry retreat where you guys perform reach-arounds on each other at night.
Funny how people can understand THAT being a lousy waste of time and yet if you link it to residency, they'll all immediately bend over and grab their ankles and spread their cheeks enthusiastically.
This is mind-boggling, as I thought that this could best be accomplished by driving to some forest somewhere and not bathing for seven days and taking dumps next to each other. Nothing really inspires camaraderie like squatting next to your co-intern in the dirt and grinning at them while you squeeze out a dookie and then ask them to pass a handful of leaves. I mean, after that you won't mind the smell of the post-call call room at all. So I can actually see the point of all the colossal tools and losers who are pro-retreats.

No, just kidding, I can't.
You might want to chill a bit.
 

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The point isn't being pro or con retreat. I'm glad my program doesn't have them for the residents (because I'd have to plan them) and I balk at having to attend the quarterly administrative staff retreats my office organizes. But I go--and even occasionally find myself enjoying some of the activities.

The point, to me at least, is that the OP's program has a retreat and the valid concern of potential negative repercussions (however unfair) that might ensue by refusal to attend. Intern year will be difficult enough--no one wants to make it worse by also having to fight a negative perception formed by not participating in the first formal event of residency. I applaud the decision to attend, even (and especially) when it's out of the person's comfort zone.
 

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You're gonna be around these people every day for the next three years, at least. Nobody's gonna label you if you don't go to this thing. I bet you won't be the only one not going. And if they do label you, they're douche-***s.(F-A-Gs)

I'm with the OP on this one. Some people, like the OP, value their time away from work and tend to use it to partake in life's other pleasures, like video games, or sitting down not having to put a face on for people you don't really care to know outside of work anyway.

The friends I made in med school and residency weren't made due to forced social gatherings. They were made because we shared interests on the job, and just clicked(in that weird, intangible way).
 

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Man, are you crazy P'Call? Don't get me wrong, man, I love what you cough up, but given all the threads about residents given the boot, don't you think it would be tactically sound, doing EVERYTHING to get EVERYONE on your side? Including the janitors, co-residents, secretaries, all the nurses, everyone in the g'damn hospital? Take some xanax for the phobia for one awful weekend, then go back to your solitary life, your books, the net, whatever. This is all about manipulation, and we are talking about the rest of your life here. Don't mess up.
 
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You're gonna be around these people every day for the next three years, at least. Nobody's gonna label you if you don't go to this thing. I bet you won't be the only one not going. And if they do label you, they're douche-***s.(F-A-Gs)

I'm with the OP on this one. Some people, like the OP, value their time away from work and tend to use it to partake in life's other pleasures, like video games, or sitting down not having to put a face on for people you don't really care to know outside of work anyway.

The friends I made in med school and residency weren't made due to forced social gatherings. They were made because we shared interests on the job, and just clicked(in that weird, intangible way).
Agree. The people claiming you are somehow going to miss out on valuable bonding time or look like a weirdo are a bit nuts. You don't have to go on every single social outing to make friends or be successful in residency. In fact, if you force yourself to go to an event you're dreading, it may backfire b/c you obviously don't want to be there. Just be nice and professional to people when you're on the job, and everything will go fine.
 

michaelrack

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can't wait until i finally make it as an attending and can ignore things i don't want to be a part of without represcussion. like the one attending i knew who never bothers showing up to the hospital's big christmas party or to the annual residency graduation ceremony in his own department. or like those locums who come in, do their job, get their money, and go home.
There are always repercussions. An academic attending who misses department events is hurting his chances for promotion. Even in private practice there are repercussions- missing the office Christmas party is not a good thing- you may not lose your job, but you will endanger a good relationship with the office staff.
 

Gastrapathy

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I'm amazed how many people think this is not a really bad idea. EVERYONE WILL NOTICE that some intern thought he was too cool for the retreat, even the people that don't want to be there. After that, any bad interaction will be viewed from a totally different perspective.

ring ring
Hi this is Dr. Programdirector...what can I do for you Nurse Manager Dueceand ahalf?...Which intern...(thinks to self: oh the jackass that skipped the retreat, guess this is probably true)...OK, go ahead and write him up and I'll deal with it.

You want to stay in the herd. Break away at your peril. Why use up the tiny amount of leeway and goodwill you're afforded on something so trivial?
 

ResidentMD

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I'm amazed how many people think this is not a really bad idea. EVERYONE WILL NOTICE that some intern thought he was too cool for the retreat, even the people that don't want to be there. After that, any bad interaction will be viewed from a totally different perspective.

ring ring
Hi this is Dr. Programdirector...what can I do for you Nurse Manager Dueceand ahalf?...Which intern...(thinks to self: oh the jackass that skipped the retreat, guess this is probably true)...OK, go ahead and write him up and I'll deal with it.

You want to stay in the herd. Break away at your peril. Why use up the tiny amount of leeway and goodwill you're afforded on something so trivial?
:thumbup:
 

colbgw02

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Haven't read the whole thread, but I say screw it. I hate these "mandatory fun" events. If you were in my program, I wouldn't give a rat's behind if you showed up to roast smores and talk about your feelings for a weekend. What I do care about is that you do your work and don't dump on your fellow residents. I'd be willing to bet that the residents in your program feel the same way. If you happen to meet a casual acquaintance, friend, best friend, spouse, soulmate, organ donor match, long-lost cousin, or even a mortal enemy in a fellow resident, then so be it. But you don't need a weekend in the woods to figure that out.
 
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Oh dear God. I think we're overthinking this. Dude is a grown man. The only reason he needs to not go is the fact that he does not want to go. And it doesn't mean that he's antisocial or that he values time with family versus coworkers. He just doesn't want to go and since he's currently an adult in a free country that's all the justification he needs to stay home.

Also, it's a weekend retreat for a residency program. It's not like he's missing the coming of Christ. No huge bond is going to form here. No connections are going to be made that can't be made a week later in the cafeteria after grand rounds. And the part that I find so amusing is that dude is gonna go and find that half the residency class stayed home and be even more pissed that he allowed himself to be persuaded to go.
 
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dragonfly99

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I think that if they are paying you (i.e. if it is part of a paid orientation) then you need to go. After all, it's easier than taking care of patients, and less stressful. You don't have to love camping...it's just one of those things you're going to suck it up and do.

If this isn't part of an official paid orientation, then what I would suggest is to make up an excuse that you have to go to a close friend or relative's wedding that weekend, that is out of state. The best thing is maybe to say that you are IN the wedding, so that you can't miss it (it's your best friend, 1st cousin, etc.). This is one of the few excuses that sounds legit that nobody can really judge you too harshly for.

I do think the OP is making a bit too big a deal out of this, but I also am not so much in favor of all-weekend residency retreats. Sheesh, we work enough....and as someone pointed out above, some people (not me) have a spouse, kids, et. that they'd rather be spending their small amount of free time with.
 

Jersey

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it's more that i realize this is yet another phony display. i know these people aren't really my friends, we just happened to end up at the same residency. but there are too many examples of "friends" betraying their fellow residents or ostracizing them later on in residency. so i'm going in knowing nobody really cares about you in residency except you. no camping trip or other "friendly" get together is going to fool me into thinking these people care about any other resident except for themselves when it comes right down to it.
I think the point that most are making is that not going to the retreat is only part of the problem. The main point is that the OP is already separating himself from the pack long before residency even starts.
 
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I think the point that most are making is that not going to the retreat is only part of the problem. The main point is that the OP is already separating himself from the pack long before residency even starts.
Except that he isn't lying. They aren't friends. There are many examples of "friends" betraying their fellow residents or ostracizing them later on in residency, etc. It's not the most sunshine and rainbows outlook but it's probably valid for him and his experiences. For most people, provided he's civil and does his share of the work, it doesn't matter that he didn't drop by to braid hair and tell stories last night.
 

smq123

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Except that he isn't lying. They aren't friends. There are many examples of "friends" betraying their fellow residents or ostracizing them later on in residency, etc. It's not the most sunshine and rainbows outlook but it's probably valid for him and his experiences. For most people, provided he's civil and does his share of the work, it doesn't matter that he didn't drop by to braid hair and tell stories last night.
There are many examples of "husbands" cheating on their wives. Doesn't mean that all men are lying scumbags, or that it happens to all women.

It just seems a little odd to assume that all of your fellow residents are going to be lying, back-stabbing, SOBs that are going to go out of their way to screw you over. It happens, but it doesn't happen to everyone, unless the OP knows that he's going to a malignant program.
 

glade

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They should make all the attendings go on the retreat, too, so that they can get to know the residents. Then all of the attendings on this thread who keep whining about the residents not wanting to go will immediately kill the retreat. "I don't need to go camping to get reach-arounds from residents! I can get that any day of the year in the hospital! I have an inflated sense of self-importance that is inversely proportional to my penis size!"
 
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There are many examples of "husbands" cheating on their wives. Doesn't mean that all men are lying scumbags, or that it happens to all women.

It just seems a little odd to assume that all of your fellow residents are going to be lying, back-stabbing, SOBs that are going to go out of their way to screw you over. It happens, but it doesn't happen to everyone, unless the OP knows that he's going to a malignant program.
Well some of us are more glass half empty than others :shrug: It is what it is.
 

Ypo.

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For whatever its worth, you should go. Mainly because its the beginnng of the year and first impressions count.

But I also have to say that despite what others have said, I personally don't think I'll be lifelong friends with anyone in my residency program. I like most people and I'm sure that I'll look back on these years with fondness, but i look at residency as another hurdle/vehicle to get to where i want to be. Honestly, at the end of a typical day, I just want to go home and spend it with my family, whom i don't get to see enough. The truth is i feel the need to getaway from fellow residents when i need to unwind. Not because i dont like the residents in my program, but just because i see them too much as it is and seeing them makes it hard for me to take my mind off residency.
 

Gastrapathy

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They should make all the attendings go on the retreat, too, so that they can get to know the residents. Then all of the attendings on this thread who keep whining about the residents not wanting to go will immediately kill the retreat. "I don't need to go camping to get reach-arounds from residents! I can get that any day of the year in the hospital! I have an inflated sense of self-importance that is inversely proportional to my penis size!"
First of all, my inflated sense of self-importance is directly proportional, thanks. And I don't see anyone whining except you.

Second, I bet most of us think this is BS. When I was a resident, we used to have an intern retreat about half way through the year and they made the residents cover for the interns. That was pretty painful. The interns weren't at home and we were in the hospital doing their work. So, trust me, I'm not pro-retreat.

Third, some of my best friends were in the trenches with me in residency. Not sure what has the OP so convinced he will dislike everyone (although he's certainly trying to ostracize himself).

Bottom-line, this program has a retreat. This is the OPs first impression. This is a really stupid thing to fall on your sword over. If he wants to get rid of the retreat, get the other interns and residents to suggest canceling it on the ACGME survey or tell the PD later in the year once he's built up some capital.
 

Rabbit Hole

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First of all, my inflated sense of self-importance is directly proportional, thanks. And I don't see anyone whining except you.

Second, I bet most of us think this is BS. When I was a resident, we used to have an intern retreat about half way through the year and they made the residents cover for the interns. That was pretty painful. The interns weren't at home and we were in the hospital doing their work. So, trust me, I'm not pro-retreat.

Third, some of my best friends were in the trenches with me in residency. Not sure what has the OP so convinced he will dislike everyone (although he's certainly trying to ostracize himself).

Bottom-line, this program has a retreat. This is the OPs first impression. This is a really stupid thing to fall on your sword over. If he wants to get rid of the retreat, get the other interns and residents to suggest canceling it on the ACGME survey or tell the PD later in the year once he's built up some capital.
This whole retreat thing with going out in the woods and hugging trees is odd. Is this supposed to be something normal? What kind of retreat is it anyway? Tents and bears -or- spa resort and bears? Huge difference.
 

glade

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Second, I bet most of us think this is BS. When I was a resident, we used to have an intern retreat about half way through the year and they made the residents cover for the interns. That was pretty painful. The interns weren't at home and we were in the hospital doing their work. So, trust me, I'm not pro-retreat.
That's my point entirely. Here we have a retreat which is demonstrably completely useless in that residents who don't have retreats somehow manage to also work together. (And having one mid-year is even more pointless.) And yet it's mandated in by the PD. But no skin off his back, he just tells the other residents to cover. So the interns lose time off, the residents have to do more work, and for what? For some lame retreat that was incorporated by someone who was probably inspired by some corporate model that caught his eye and which he thinks will inspire everyone. Like I said, if that's the case, keep a skeleton crew to cover the hospital and tell the attendings that they have to waste their time off to go to "team build" also. See how enthusiastic they are about it. It would get cancelled in less than one minute.

By the way, good to see that you have an extremely small sense of self-importance.