Not happy with current "research" experience

[nuagexrose]

Okay so I'm only a first year at a four-year university.
I've been assisting a graduate student with his research... so basically I just set up a lot of lab experiments like PCRs, running gels, making solutions, etc. I don't actually get to see or analyze the data. I honestly don't even know what the guy is researching. Part of this is my own fault as I don't spend a lot of time in the lab due to my schedule conflicting with the graduate student's availability.

I know I still have time but I don't see there being much room for growth in the lab I'm working in... especially because the PI is NEVER there. I will only ever be able to work with this graduate student and will never be able to collaborate with the actual professor. I may get my own project somewhere down the line...but probably not until my third or fourth year and that's not even guaranteed. Publication is probably impossible.

Another side note--- I absolutely dislike research. It just bores me and is sometimes slightly depressing. But I'd rather do it than have a blank resume for when I apply to medical school later on.

Should I stick with this specific lab next year or try to find something else? I'm wondering if this is "typical" of most undergraduate research experiences. Thanks all.

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[EBTrailRunner]

Yes, bench work is not fun. You're only a freshman, so if you want to change labs, go ahead and do it now. Find a PI whose lab is focused on a research area you're genuinely interested in and know what you'll be doing before you commit. Also, keep in mind that no matter what lab you end up in, you're going to have to find time to come in and get your work done. Yes, it can be inconvenient at times, but don't expect anything but bench work otherwise.

 

[nuagexrose]

Okay. I don't think the grad student would be very pleased if I left which is something that scares me a bit... When I joined, he did tell me that he expected 2+ years out of me and preferably all 4 years of my undergraduate career...

Also I don't even know if I can find a lab where I can be more involved than to this extent. There are juniors and seniors in this lab right now and some have their mini-projects, but barely. They are still completely underneath the guidance of the other graduate students and very constrained in their freedom to design and carry out their own ideas.

Would it be too forward if I came up with my own proposal over the summer and contacted professors the following academic year, telling them that I want to do my own experiment under their guidance?

 

[NeuralNetwork]

Would it be too forward if I came up with my own proposal over the summer and contacted professors the following academic year, telling them that I want to do my own experiment under their guidance?

Very very forward. They have grant money only to work on their projects, and undergrads are simply used to aid in those projects. You can't expect to join a lab with your own ideas and use their money to experiment on your own. Find a lab with topics that interest you, get involved with that lab, and then eventually after working there for a long enough time you could be eligible to apply for your own grants as well as take on additional responsibilities with specific projects that you really find interesting.

 

[nuagexrose]

Alright, I understand now.
Does it really matter if I don't come in any contact with the PI? I've heard some advice that it's best to develop a relationship with the PI/professor but the PI never steps foot into this lab.

 

[lalalaaaaaa]

Food for thought:

Learning the techniques is very important before starting your own project. It sucks to be doing original research while learning how to run a gel. However, you should be analyzing the data you collect just so you know what's going on.

Can you do some type of honors project/thesis in this lab?

Lab is tedious and can be mind numbingly boring. Not for everyone for sure.

If you can't get your own project soon, leave. Even working on an independent part of the grad students project would be great. Also, the grad student wont actually care if you leave, so just leave if you get a better opportunity. Without a project within the next year you are wasting your time IMO.

If you leave, maybe look for an older PI. A lot of older PIs are in the lab more because they don't worry as much about writing grants. In my experience, they are also better mentors.

Research a new lab before you join it. Make sure you are interested in their research.

If you aren't interested in the material from the beginning, research becoming VERY hard to be successful at because of tedium and hard work.

 

[NeuralNetwork]

Alright, I understand now.
Does it really matter if I don't come in any contact with the PI? I've heard some advice that it's best to develop a relationship with the PI/professor but the PI never steps foot into this lab.

What matters most is that you have opportunities to pursue research past pipetting and that you get something out of it - publications, honors project through the school, anything that shows depth of experience. It's nice to have a solid relationship with your PI but it isn't really necessary. My PI was out of the country most of the time, so I rarely spoke to him.

 

[nuagexrose]

I feel as if the best thing for me to do is to seek out a new lab. I'm just worried that I will end up in the same situation as I am now.

When I joined the lab I am currently a part of, I was really interested in their research topic. As of recently, however, I've discovered that they've changed directions and are no longer researching that topic along the same lines...

I think I'll peruse for better labs to join but if I can't find one, I'll stay here.

 

[Xcited392]

If you don't enjoy what the lab is researching, and you feel that you aren't getting good support from other students and members, I'd probably leave.

However, it is in your best interest to master some techniques before switching labs. When you have some skills under your tool belt, you can walk into a new PI's office and tell him/her what skills you can offer and your willingness to learn even more.

I personally have a preference for smaller labs. You can get a lot interaction with the PI that way. However, the potential problem with this is being given extra work and being overwhelmed.

Also, whatever goals you have in mind for the lab, do realize that research funding and grants are very precious, so I wouldn't just walk in and propose an idea without considering your available resources.

Good luck.

 

[lalalaaaaaa]

Talk to the people in the lab first. If you can talk to an undergrad already in the lab, that is a good way to see what opportunities are available.

Another thing to do is go to the lab web page and see how many undergrads are in each lab, and also see the "lab alumni" page (most labs have this) and see where former students went to grad school. If a bunch went to med school, that is the lab to be in!

 

[saveourpens]

Okay so I'm only a first year at a four-year university.
I've been assisting a graduate student with his research... so basically I just set up a lot of lab experiments like PCRs, running gels, making solutions, etc. I don't actually get to see or analyze the data. I honestly don't even know what the guy is researching. Part of this is my own fault as I don't spend a lot of time in the lab due to my schedule conflicting with the graduate student's availability.

I know I still have time but I don't see there being much room for growth in the lab I'm working in... especially because the PI is NEVER there. I will only ever be able to work with this graduate student and will never be able to collaborate with the actual professor. I may get my own project somewhere down the line...but probably not until my third or fourth year and that's not even guaranteed. Publication is probably impossible.

Another side note--- I absolutely dislike research. It just bores me and is sometimes slightly depressing. But I'd rather do it than have a blank resume for when I apply to medical school later on.

Should I stick with this specific lab next year or try to find something else? I'm wondering if this is "typical" of most undergraduate research experiences. Thanks all.

This isn't research. If you can't get your own project soon then leave. Also, don't base your entire opinion on research off of this one experience.

 

[EnergyDrink]

I know I still have time but I don't see there being much room for growth in the lab I'm working in... especially because the PI is NEVER there. I will only ever be able to work with this graduate student and will never be able to collaborate with the actual professor. I may get my own project somewhere down the line...but probably not until my third or fourth year and that's not even guaranteed. Publication is probably impossible. .

Sounds like a real research experience to me. What did you think it was going to be? This is research.

As for not understanding the project, that's more on you than it is on them. Read theses, publications, and reviews on what you're working on.

 

[bluebird478]

Alright, I understand now.
Does it really matter if I don't come in any contact with the PI? I've heard some advice that it's best to develop a relationship with the PI/professor but the PI never steps foot into this lab.

You can have a very rewarding experience in lab from working with your graduate student. (Many people don't work hand-in-hand with their PIs)

Does your lab have weekly meetings? Perhaps that's a good time to get to know your PI a little better.

 

[EnergyDrink]

I wouldn't join a lab without some sort of weekly/bi-weekly meeting.

 

[wolfie77]

Sounds like a real research experience to me. What did you think it was going to be? This is research.

As for not understanding the project, that's more on you than it is on them. Read theses, publications, and reviews on what you're working on.

I agree that if you don't get what's going on, that's more your responsibility than anyone else's. I'm sure if you were to ask the grad student for some literature, s/he would give you some papers to read.

If you still don't like what you're doing, maybe research isn't for you? Try focusing your time on other aspects of medicine that interest you. Otherwise, you might be taking up someone else's spot who might want to make a career of research.

 

[EnergyDrink]

Research takes patience and tenacity. We're in the lab at all hours of the night trying to get experiments to work. Its very challenging and takes years to get anything meaningful out of it.

Its not as simple as scientific papers make it seem, and certainly not as simple as lab courses.

 

[Shalashaska]

There's a reason why people say they went from working in the mail room or washing the dishes to being the manager or the CEO.

You don't make it to the top by starting at the top. You gotta put in your dues and do the manual labor. Your experiences are actually somewhat better than most undergrads primarily because:

- You got research as a first year and you're already doing experimental work.
- Many other undergrads don't get to do research that early and are typically taken in by a lab to wash beakers, clean benches, file papers, and all that other stuff.

People don't enjoy working in the mail room. People don't enjoy washing dishes. But this is where you gotta start from. I had a hard time finding a research position myself, only to find out that there's about 5 other people in the same lab. I've been doing the same kinds of experiments for the last 2 years and will not have any pubs/abstracts/manuscripts from this experience. But the fact that I've had the experience of working in the lab has "opened my eyes" so-to-speak.

You won't enjoy it from the start. Give it some time. I will tell you this though: when you start doing experiments in your lab courses (chemistry, biology, o. chemistry, etc.) you'll be surprised to see people don't even know what an Erlenmeyer flask is or better yet, how to use a micro-pipette (skills that you will already have!).

 

[Charles_Carmichael]

Okay so I'm only a first year at a four-year university.
I've been assisting a graduate student with his research... so basically I just set up a lot of lab experiments like PCRs, running gels, making solutions, etc. I don't actually get to see or analyze the data. I honestly don't even know what the guy is researching. Part of this is my own fault as I don't spend a lot of time in the lab due to my schedule conflicting with the graduate student's availability.

I know I still have time but I don't see there being much room for growth in the lab I'm working in... especially because the PI is NEVER there. I will only ever be able to work with this graduate student and will never be able to collaborate with the actual professor. I may get my own project somewhere down the line...but probably not until my third or fourth year and that's not even guaranteed. Publication is probably impossible.

Another side note--- I absolutely dislike research. It just bores me and is sometimes slightly depressing. But I'd rather do it than have a blank resume for when I apply to medical school later on.

Should I stick with this specific lab next year or try to find something else? I'm wondering if this is "typical" of most undergraduate research experiences. Thanks all.

Several things:

1) You're a freshman. You're not going to be conducting independent research at this point in time unless you already have a significant background in research, a very strong understanding of biology, etc. Running gels, making solutions, etc, is what's expected of you at this stage. Not analyzing data. Not writing manuscripts. Not managing your own projects.

2) You yourself admit that you don't spend much time in the lab and that you "don't even know what that guy is researching." What I'm interpreting that as is that you don't spend enough time in lab and you don't read/keep up with the literature pertaining to your lab's research focus. If I were the PI or grad student and had someone who was not willing to even spend the time reading up on some literature, why would I offer you more responsibility?

3) Not many undergrads work one-on-one with the PI. The PI is very busy running the lab, writing grants, etc. Most undergrads (including myself) work with grad students and post-docs, at least in my experience. They're the ones that spend valuable time teaching us techniques, guiding us through projects, etc. Don't expect to work one-on-one with a PI as an undergrad, especially a freshman (!), in any lab, not just this lab.

4) You really dislike research? Then, why are you doing this? The only med school that I can think of off the top of my head that requires research as a prereq is CCLCM. You may be showing outward signs of your dislike for research (even though you haven't really done any research so far) and your lab mates might be picking up on it.

I think you're going to be dealing with these same issues no matter what lab you're in. If you really aren't interested in research, don't waste your time on it. Focus on some other activity you're interested in instead.

Edit: Came off harsher than I meant to. My bad.

 

[marinera]

Several things:

1) You're a freshman. You're not going to be conducting independent research at this point in time unless you already have a significant background in research, a very strong understanding of biology, etc. Running gels, making solutions, etc, is what's expected of you at this stage. Not analyzing data. Not writing manuscripts. Not managing your own projects.

2) You yourself admit that you don't spend much time in the lab and that you "don't even know what that guy is researching." What I'm interpreting that as is that you don't spend enough time in lab and you don't read/keep up with the literature pertaining to your lab's research focus. If I were the PI or grad student and had someone who was not willing to even spend the time reading up on some literature, why would I offer you more responsibility?

3) Not many undergrads work one-on-one with the PI. The PI is very busy running the lab, writing grants, etc. Most undergrads (including myself) work with grad students and post-docs, at least in my experience. They're the ones that spend valuable time teaching us techniques, guiding us through projects, etc. Don't expect to work one-on-one with a PI as an undergrad, especially a freshman (!), in any lab, not just this lab.

4) You really dislike research? Then, why are you doing this? The only med school that I can think of off the top of my head that requires research as a prereq is CCLCM. You may be showing outward signs of your dislike for research (even though you haven't really done any research so far) and your lab mates might be picking up on it.

I think you're going to be dealing with these same issues no matter what lab you're in. If you really aren't interested in research, don't waste your time on it. Focus on some other activity you're interested in instead.

Edit: Came off harsher than I meant to. My bad.

Not too harsh. Im an undergrad doing research and I hardly ever work with my PI. She's an awesome busy lady and I consider myself very lucky to be working with on her project. I make time to see her during her office hours to discuss techniques and literature though.
Someone already mentioned this but you have to start at the bottom and work up! People rarely start at the top of the research, or any type of real world, hiearchy. I started out stocking supplies. This is where the real magic happens people. If **** ain't stocked, experiments don't happen.
There is no mountain without the stones that make the base! And those rocks at the top have no right to feel superior because of on of the stones at the base decided to leave....

 

[TriagePreMed]

lol freshmen. You should be happy you even get to be inside a lab. Most top tier schools don't allow freshmen or sophomores to join because they simply don't know enough. And as for your own project, maybe when you can get grants on your own. Be happy with what you have. You're not going to be winning a Nobel Prize any time soon or have the capacity to do research that's publication worthy.

 

[wolfie77]

lol freshmen. You should be happy you even get to be inside a lab. Most top tier schools don't allow freshmen or sophomores to join because they simply don't know enough. And as for your own project, maybe when you can get grants on your own. Be happy with what you have. You're not going to be winning a Nobel Prize any time soon or have the capacity to do research that's publication worthy.

I agree with the general sentiment of the post but I think it's very possible for a freshman or sophomore to get into a lab at any university and it's also very possible to get published. I've seen it done. As for doing your own project, I don't think you'd have to wait til you're a PI or even a grad student. I'm an undergrad and currently have funding for my own project (of course, it's in the field of interest of my PI) and hope to get my work published soon. . . . however, I myself will be winning a Nobel sometime soon.