not sure what step to take next. working deciding to go back to med school

[preludexl]

Okay here is a very brief background check on me. I have a BS in bio. My GPA was very decent until I had a lousy senior year and bombed every class. feeling burnt out, I graduated anyway and didnt bother to retake or to drop any classes. I just wanted it done with. Problem is my GPA is 2.7 at where it stands. It was a 3.5 in my junior year but like I said, I took a serious nosedive in my final year. I took the mcat 2 years ago thinking I might want to go back to school and got a 28. I'm thinking I can crack 30 if I study a few more months instead of just 3. I've worked for our health department for almost 5 years now as an inspector. Before that I worked in the hospital for 2 years as a cardiology tech doing ekg's and stress tests. I have been reading these post-bac classes. but they appear to be for people who have a lack of science classes. What are the chances I can get into a DO or MD school? I am guessing a DO school. But with a GPA of below 3.0. I'm not sure where to begin. I would appreciate any advice or info from people on the same boat or who have made it.

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[njbmd]

Okay here is a very brief background check on me. I have a BS in bio. My GPA was very decent until I had a lousy senior year and bombed every class. feeling burnt out, I graduated anyway and didnt bother to retake or to drop any classes. I just wanted it done with. Problem is my GPA is 2.7 at where it stands. It was a 3.5 in my junior year but like I said, I took a serious nosedive in my final year. I took the mcat 2 years ago thinking I might want to go back to school and got a 28. I'm thinking I can crack 30 if I study a few more months instead of just 3. I've worked for our health department for almost 5 years now as an inspector. Before that I worked in the hospital for 2 years as a cardiology tech doing ekg's and stress tests. I have been reading these post-bac classes. but they appear to be for people who have a lack of science classes. What are the chances I can get into a DO or MD school? I am guessing a DO school. But with a GPA of below 3.0. I'm not sure where to begin. I would appreciate any advice or info from people on the same boat or who have made it.

Hi there,
You have generally gone the opposite path of most non-traditional folks in that you started off strong and had one poor year. Still, it is going to be there and you are probably going to have to explain it. The other thing to consider is that as a Biology major, you probably took most if not all of the pre-med sciences. If you took all of them and did well, then a formal post bacc is probably not for you.

Instead, look into one of the Special Masters (like Georgetown's SMP in Physiology) which is essentially the first year of medical school, do well and you are admitted to Georgetown Medical School. The program is also has a good record of getting people (like you) competitive for other medical schools too. I know GTs SMP the best but I know that there are others out there. Do a search.

A 2.7 even with a stellar MCAT is going to be a huge uphill battle in today's competitive applicant climate. DO is also an avenue to look at but again, that 2.7 is pretty low even for DO schools. The good thing about applying DO is that you can repeat the courses that you failed or did poorly in, and the grades will be averaged or replaced.

These are the two options that come to mind at present. Needless to say, you DO need to do very well if you are re-taking the MCAT. A mediocre score could nail your application so don't take the MCAT until you know that you can do well.

Good luck!
njbmd

 

[relentless11]

Being below a 3.0 without any upward trend, and/or recent upper division coursework will hurt you regardless of MCAT score. Most schools treat MCAT and GPA equally, so doing good on one may not make up for the other.

Post-bacc is not unique for those that have not taken science classes. Post-bacc is what the word says, courses taking after your bachelor's degree. Therefore any undergrad courses taken after graduating is considered post-bacc and adds into your undergrad GPA.

Your healthcare work is fine, and shows dedication in what you do, however does not address your academic trend during your last year in undergrad. To go from a 3.5 down to a 2.7 would have required a major downward trend. You should take additional upper division courses (and even repeat courses that were sub-par). Be warned, that the MCAT for 2007 will be computer based, therefore could be different than what you are experienced with. This may be a good thing or a bad thing. I can't say since i haven't seen it yet.

I do not discourage you from applying to MD programs, since it is possible to get in, but will require a lot of work (e.g.: getting your GPA up to 3.0 or more). There may be more yield out of a DO program because retaking courses will allow you to replace the bad grade with the better one. Whereas in MD programs they count both grades. So you can boost your GPA a lot faster through the DO route. Just be sure that the DO route is for you. Both programs make perfectly fine physicians, its just the way they teach it. MD or DO might not be for everyone. So yea do it because you you know you will be happy in that program, rather than to just be a physician. I respect DO's as much as MD's, but I am not going to apply to a DO since I feel more comfortable with how MD programs teach.

 

[CatsandCradles]

Okay here is a very brief background check on me.

Hi. I'm C&C

I have a BS in bio.

I majored in biology as well.

My GPA was very decent until I had a lousy senior year and bombed every class. feeling burnt out, I graduated anyway and didnt bother to retake or to drop any classes. I just wanted it done with.

Well that's not the end of the world.

Problem is my GPA is 2.7 at where it stands. It was a 3.5 in my junior year but like I said, I took a serious nosedive in my final year.

For many DO schools you can go back and fix that up. We're a little more forgiving on these matters. If you can get above 3.1 or 3.2 I would argue that you take a bold gamble and apply to all the DO schools.

I took the mcat 2 years ago thinking I might want to go back to school and got a 28. I'm thinking I can crack 30 if I study a few more months instead of just 3.

You got a 28. A few DO schools take exams that are more than 3 years old. I would suggest you find out which ones they are. The average DO MCAT scores of those entering is about 25. Some people claim the average is 27, but I think that's too high. So you are already ahead of the ballgame by a little tad bit

If you can crank out past a 30 MCAT then that is even better.

I've worked for our health department for almost 5 years now as an inspector. Before that I worked in the hospital for 2 years as a cardiology tech doing ekg's and stress tests.

Ah ha! These are your strengths. Sun Tzu, in the Art of War states that a nation must, Avoid and cover its weakness and utilize her strengths against the enemy. In our situation, the enemy is self-doubt!

Remember that quote that Julie Andrews said: When the Lord closes the door, he always opens a window. The osteopathic schools is that window.
Our self-doubt is our enemy that is in our path towards climbing through that window. You can defeat that enemy.

I have been reading these post-bac classes. but they appear to be for people who have a lack of science classes.

You already have a science background. You can go back and redo those classes - or if you would rather go the MD route then the post-bac programs are certaintly an opportunity to improve yourself.

Some programs are expensive, but if this is the path you want, then it will be worth it.

What are the chances I can get into a DO or MD school? I am guessing a DO school.

DO school is in your grasp - and if you choose the post bac route, an MD school is in your grasp as well.

But with a GPA of below 3.0. I'm not sure where to begin.

Retake those classes or do a post bac program. You had a 3.5 in your junior year, that means you had the brains and ability to get somewhere.

Trust yourself. You can move a 2.7 to a 3.1. It will require hard work and you can do it. Further more, you said you had a 28 MCAT. That's plenty good if you can raise your GPA pass 3.1.

If you cannot raise your GPA up pass 3.1, then aim high on the MCAT, I'm talking greater than 30+. That's what someone in the osteo fourum did, and it worked for him - he took a gamble and applied to as many schools as possible and got into Toruo.

I would appreciate any advice or info from people on the same boat or who have made it.

To close, I want to impress upon you that the osteopathic route is definantly in your grasp. Just get that GPA up. If you choose the allopathic route, I think some type of post bac program can place an MD school in your grasp as well.

Be warned about the DO route: They are somewhat easier and more forgiving to get into, but you will have to take additional classes called OMM (sort of like physical therapy) ontop of your regular medical classes. Ontop of all of this, you might be one of those people who end up taking both boards!


Anyway, you'll find DOs just about everywhere these days. And next, DOs have always been a minority degree. Naturally, some people will be hostile against DOs for the lack of better knowledge. You will face instances of persecutions and discrimination; if you are not someone who is comfortable about being a commonly misunderstood minority, then you might want to look elsewhere.

I wish you the warmest and best of luck in whatever you do.

God Speed!

C&C

 

[preludexl]

thank you for all the responses. I do know it will take a lot of effort. I have a few friends who went the route of taking post bac classes. In addition, I have a perfect brother who graduated summa cum laude at ucla and went off to ucsd med school and graduated the same. I cracked under pressure in my senior year from a multitude of events and stayed away from school for as long as I could hold off. But that's not here nor there. I knew I wanted to be in the health field, I just didnt want to go back to school for a while. I have heard of Georgetown's program and do know someone who went there and got into their med school at the end. I thought it was only for disadvantaged students. It's also quite pricey from what I recall.

I know it will be hard to get back in the groove of things but I know I can do it. My mind is still in tact and sharp enough to deal with hard classes. My plan is to take the mcat in august, see how I do. Retake classes that I bombed.

I didnt know DO schools averaged GPAs differently from MD schools. I have no stigma with DO schools. My brother and sisters who finished MD, have no high and mighty feelings against DO. And I certainly have none either. The point is to serve the patients, and it doesnt matter what you are. My stint at the health dept has shown me that there's no point in being pompous when it comes to public health. Just get the job done. So, I'm not even thinking of going the MD route. I had my chances and blew it. I already did all those premed things, such as undergraduate research, TAing, volunteering. Personally, I dont think they mean anything. I learned more working in the real world than sitting in an ivory tower counting flies.

 

[preludexl]

Thanks for all those encouraging words. Yes, I do know about DO school. My ex got into DO school and not MD school. It broke her heart but I liked it. I even sat in her OMM labs so she could practice bending me. I'm going to do it.

 

[CatsandCradles]

Thanks for all those encouraging words. Yes, I do know about DO school. My ex got into DO school and not MD school. It broke her heart but I liked it. I even sat in her OMM labs so she could practice bending me. I'm going to do it.

Somebody once said that the only difference between an MD and a DO was that in a DO school you got to have plenty of back massages on you while attending medical school

 

[UMP]

I don't think you have to write off allopathic schools completely either. I presented my situation to my state schools, and two of them were very receptive. I had a 2.77 before this semester, and took the MCAT and had a 30 (two years ago). I'm taking some science classes now, and my GPA will be above a 3.0 (if all goes well) by the end of the summer (30 credits). I'll retake the MCAT in August also and I'm actually studying this time around, so I'll bump up my score. Get your GPA above a 3.0 at a do-it your-self program at a state school and get a solid score on the MCAT. Maybe my state schools (Michigan St., Wayne St.) are more forgiving, but you will never know unless you try. That's what I'm doing, and I've generally heard it's a good starting point, but we'll see later this year.

 

[preludexl]

Hrmmm, I suppose I can try allopath as well highly unlikely. What is this thing about DO schools replacing or averaging classes if you retake them? I thought MD schools did that as well.

 

[NonTradMed]

Okay here is a very brief background check on me. I have a BS in bio. My GPA was very decent until I had a lousy senior year and bombed every class. feeling burnt out, I graduated anyway and didnt bother to retake or to drop any classes. I just wanted it done with.

That was me too! My GPA didn't take such a huge nosedive as yours, but you are not alone in this. Burnout is not an uncommon thing when you have a tough year or two in college.

Problem is my GPA is 2.7 at where it stands. It was a 3.5 in my junior year but like I said, I took a serious nosedive in my final year.

If you want to bring it up, take post-bacc, and/or do a masters. Your current GPA will NOT get you in anywhere unless you showed some serious other stuff like saving whole villages from plague.

I took the mcat 2 years ago thinking I might want to go back to school and got a 28. I'm thinking I can crack 30 if I study a few more months instead of just 3.

Do it. Do it. Do it. I did. If you truly want to be a doc, you will take it as many times as it takes to get your MCAT score up. It is that important.

I've worked for our health department for almost 5 years now as an inspector. Before that I worked in the hospital for 2 years as a cardiology tech doing ekg's and stress tests.

That's good. Adcoms LOVE clinical experience.

I have been reading these post-bac classes. but they appear to be for people who have a lack of science classes. What are the chances I can get into a DO or MD school? I am guessing a DO school. But with a GPA of below 3.0. I'm not sure where to begin. I would appreciate any advice or info from people on the same boat or who have made it.

I won't reiterate what others have said. Listen to the above poster and their advice, it is all sound. I just wanted to let you know, I was in similar boat to you a few years back (maybe not as bad academically), but I made it into med school. It's possible, but it'll take alot of time, effort and dedication. There are few backdoors into med school. Good luck!

 

[medicalbound]

Hrmmm, I suppose I can try allopath as well highly unlikely. What is this thing about DO schools replacing or averaging classes if you retake them? I thought MD schools did that as well.

MD schools (via AMCAS) only average scores, DO schools (via AACOMAS) replace scores with the latest grade for a class if it is retaken. This is one of the reasons that DO schools are much more non-trad friendly than allopathic schools.

 

[Raven Feather]

Being below a 3.0 without any upward trend, and/or recent upper division coursework will hurt you regardless of MCAT score. Most schools treat MCAT and GPA equally, so doing good on one may not make up for the other.

Post-bacc is not unique for those that have not taken science classes. Post-bacc is what the word says, courses taking after your bachelor's degree. Therefore any undergrad courses taken after graduating is considered post-bacc and adds into your undergrad GPA.

Your healthcare work is fine, and shows dedication in what you do, however does not address your academic trend during your last year in undergrad. To go from a 3.5 down to a 2.7 would have required a major downward trend. You should take additional upper division courses (and even repeat courses that were sub-par). Be warned, that the MCAT for 2007 will be computer based, therefore could be different than what you are experienced with. This may be a good thing or a bad thing. I can't say since i haven't seen it yet.

I do not discourage you from applying to MD programs, since it is possible to get in, but will require a lot of work (e.g.: getting your GPA up to 3.0 or more). There may be more yield out of a DO program because retaking courses will allow you to replace the bad grade with the better one. Whereas in MD programs they count both grades. So you can boost your GPA a lot faster through the DO route. Just be sure that the DO route is for you. Both programs make perfectly fine physicians, its just the way they teach it. MD or DO might not be for everyone. So yea do it because you you know you will be happy in that program, rather than to just be a physician. I respect DO's as much as MD's, but I am not going to apply to a DO since I feel more comfortable with how MD programs teach.

Can you ellaborate on that--aside from DO students having to learn OMM?

 

[relentless11]

Can you ellaborate on that--aside from DO students having to learn OMM?

Actually thats what I was referring to, the whole OMM, and holistic approach. It sounds fine to me, just not what my personal goals are since 99.999% of the time, I work with MD's over here so I'm more comfortable with methodology/principles than that the DO route.

 

[Raven Feather]

Actually thats what I was referring to, the whole OMM, and holistic approach. It sounds fine to me, just not what my personal goals are since 99.999% of the time, I work with MD's over here so I'm more comfortable with methodology/principles than that the DO route.

I didn't mean that I was challenging your choice (didn't/don't want you to get the wrong impression). So it is not the way they teach, it is what they teach (ie, OMM). I was just curious what you meant because at several of the DO schools I interviewed at, a lot of faculty were actually MDs and was interviewed by both MDs and DOs.

 

[JamieMac]

I don't think you have to write off allopathic schools completely either. I presented my situation to my state schools, and two of them were very receptive. I had a 2.77 before this semester, and took the MCAT and had a 30 (two years ago). I'm taking some science classes now, and my GPA will be above a 3.0 (if all goes well) by the end of the summer (30 credits). I'll retake the MCAT in August also and I'm actually studying this time around, so I'll bump up my score. Get your GPA above a 3.0 at a do-it your-self program at a state school and get a solid score on the MCAT. Maybe my state schools (Michigan St., Wayne St.) are more forgiving, but you will never know unless you try. That's what I'm doing, and I've generally heard it's a good starting point, but we'll see later this year.

UMB,
I'm not necessarily in the same boat (in Michigan), but have a so-so undergrad GPA: 3.2, but was a finance/accounting major working full time and going to school full time. I'm now working full time, and averaging a couple of classes per term to get the pre-reqs done, and doing fairly well: 3.5+ sci classes. I have one year left, and will be in a position to take the MCAT (or DAT - still undecided) next April. Based on what you've said, it makes me feel like I have a chance of getting into one of the state schools. You are coming quite strong with your MCAT score...that is still a monster that I have to do battle with. We shall see.

 

[JamieMac]

UMB,
I'm not necessarily in the same boat (in Michigan)...,

Sorry...meant UMP

 

[jace's mom]

Hi...I'm new, and I just had to respond to your post.

My stint at the health dept has shown me that there's no point in being pompous when it comes to public health. Just get the job done.

Truer words were never spoken! I just finished my MPH in December, and I'm working as a health inspector as well. Actually, I'm the entire health department for my small town. I'm so glad to see another public health person on here! I'm definitely going to keep an eye on your progress...good luck to you!

 

[preludexl]

Well you guys have certainly given me a mountain of advice. I appreciate all of it. It's good to hear that DO schools are more forgiving to nontrads. That sounds great about the grades being replaced. At that rate, I can prob have a pretty decent GPA again by the end of next fall. It certainly gives me incentive to do well and study hard. I'm just going to study for the MCAT like crazy, retake 4 classes and that would be about it...one of them was a 5 credit course, those big credit semester classes will take your GPA down faster than you can sneeze. Thanks again everyone, and good luck to you too if you are trying. It takes more effort for a nontrad to get in than a young college grad. But, I think a nontrad has more life experience and is prob doing it more for the love of the job than the money. Plus we wont be bitter.

So, I take most everyone going for allopathic?

 

[relentless11]

I didn't mean that I was challenging your choice (didn't/don't want you to get the wrong impression). So it is not the way they teach, it is what they teach (ie, OMM). I was just curious what you meant because at several of the DO schools I interviewed at, a lot of faculty were actually MDs and was interviewed by both MDs and DOs.

Oh no worries, it just sounded like you wanted me to clarify. I didn't take it as you challenging me about my choice..haha. If anything its myfault for not being clear enough in the first place.