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Now that you are a Dr ...are you only going to treat pt with diseases?? Think again!!

Discussion in 'Clinical Rotations' started by carddr, Apr 19, 2002.

  1. carddr

    carddr Senior Member

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    You have that degree and the training and now you are ready to heal the masses from all those diseases! Guess what? The main stay of your practice will be healing conditions caused by ...nothing to do with disease! Such as:

    1. obesity
    2. ignorance/stupidity(such as smoking)
    3. ugliness (such as nose job for those Plastics)
    4. Circumcision (don't want to go there)
    5. vasectomy (don't want to go there either)
    6. chemical dependency (of course from only legal drugs!!!)
    7. baldness
    8. pregnancy/wanted or unwanted
    9. ingrown toenail (ouch!!)
    10. And how about all those phobias (for those psy docs), afraid of heights, flying,mothers-in-law...
    11. eye sight (doesn't everyone want 20/20)
    12. Oh and white teeth, gotta have white teeth!!

    Somedays it doesn't pay to go to the office/hospital. Wife/husband: "So honey what disease did you cure today"? Husband/wife: "Not one single disease, but I made a lot of money dear". W/H: "I love you doctor".

    I have too much time on my hands...feel free to add your to the list.
     
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  3. Sanman

    Sanman O.G.

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    First of all, diseases are generally caused by genetics, environmental factors, or a combination of both. So, the some of the factors you lited above are correct. For example, obesity leads to diabetes, heart conditions, cholesterol problems, etc. Second, not everyone has to do these things for their money, oncologists don't do any of those things, at least not the ones I know.
     
  4. carddr

    carddr Senior Member

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    :confused:
    Oh this is great. Now I can blame my parents for my extra 40 lbs....or the fact that I work in a grocery store. Bring on the ice cream!!
     
  5. dr.evil

    dr.evil Senior Member
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    I hope the majority of us knew those facts prior to applying to medical school. There continue to be many illnesses that have nothing to do with "bringing on yourself" though and I hope we can take care of those.

    But in reality, physicians are simply here to improve the quality of life of our patients. Often times we don't cure diseases anyway and sometimes make them worse. It's still a job but hopefully one with a little more meaning to those practicing medicine and our patients.

    Enough of that sentimental crap... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />
     
  6. ckent

    ckent Banned
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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Peustow:
    <strong>I hope the majority of us knew those facts prior to applying to medical school. There continue to be many illnesses that have nothing to do with "bringing on yourself" though and I hope we can take care of those.

    But in reality, physicians are simply here to improve the quality of life of our patients. Often times we don't cure diseases anyway and sometimes make them worse. It's still a job but hopefully one with a little more meaning to those practicing medicine and our patients.

    Enough of that sentimental crap... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yeah, I agree with that. The only diseases out there that people didn't "bring onto themselves" are the strictly genetic diseases, and there aren't too many of those. I've heard that the kind of attitude where you blame the patient for whatever the patient has (particularly in drug abusers, I've heard some addiction specialists say that they are no more responsible for their condition then a smoker with heart disease or an overweight person with diabetes), really gets in the way of being a good doctor.
     
  7. Jim Picotte

    Jim Picotte Senior Member

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    I won't be treating much of anything (unless I do interventional). Although setting up a Botox clinic sounds lucrative though.
     
  8. Sandpaper

    Sandpaper Member

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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Peustow:
    <strong>I hope the majority of us knew those facts prior to applying to medical school. There continue to be many illnesses that have nothing to do with "bringing on yourself" though and I hope we can take care of those.

    But in reality, physicians are simply here to improve the quality of life of our patients. Often times we don't cure diseases anyway and sometimes make them worse. It's still a job but hopefully one with a little more meaning to those practicing medicine and our patients.

    Enough of that sentimental crap... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Peustow, interesting you called it a "job". I once had a discussion with a dermatologist about medicine being a "job" and he crapped all over me. It's a calling, you cure diseases, you save people's lives, etc. Uh-huh. This from a dermatologist. So I chose anesthesia.
     
  9. dr.evil

    dr.evil Senior Member
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    Well one day I went home to my parents for a weekend of 3rd year after my medicine rotation was over. Medicine made me a little bitter and it showed I guess. My dad, who's a rancher, just said it to me straight when he said, "Son, when it comes right down to it, being a doctor is just a job. You do the best you can do, you try to enjoy what you do, you pay your mortgage, and you move on." Granted this is pretty simplistic but it worked for me. :)

    "Calling" huh? Well, why wasn't I "called" prior to the middle of my junior year in college? Probably a damn telemarketer kept calling me and I ignored ALL incoming calls. :p
     
  10. Mindy

    Mindy Senior Member

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    Okay, now that we're talking pops...

    My dad says:

    "Min, you'll never save anyone's life...you'll only prolong it."

    Ho-hum.
     
  11. ckent

    ckent Banned
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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Mindy:
    <strong>Okay, now that we're talking pops...

    My dad says:

    "Min, you'll never save anyone's life...you'll only prolong it."

    Ho-hum.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I told one of my classmates the same thing and she got all mad at me. I just told her how being a doctor is no different then doing any other customer service oriented position, and that we are just trying to make their time here more enjoyable because we all do die eventually and all of your work is ultimately for nothing other then prolonging the inevitable. It's always fun talking to those who seem to have forgotten that we all do eventually die of something one day. :rolleyes:
     
  12. Long Hair and a Beard

    Long Hair and a Beard Obsessionist

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    Good to see people who see medicine as a profession first.

    If this topic were to be in the Lounge, the pre-meds would have cried hoarse over the pitiful condition of the patients of the doctors who treat them just as customers.

    But as I have occasion to say before, the most important thing a doctor must NOT have is the God complex. You are not here to cure but only to provide some relief, for which you can get your recognition, money, the smiles on your patients' faces: whatever you value.
     
  13. MikeS 78

    MikeS 78 Senior Member

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    all of you are a bunch of ignorant morons. or a bunch of dermatologists with a bad case of short sightedness

    maybe I was out to lunch when the vaccination invention of penicillin et al significantly decreased childhood mortality in the industrialized world.....I mean i could go on and on with examples of this

    yes we dont cure every disease that comes in.....I mean everyone is guaranteed to come down with atleast one incurable disease in their lifetime.....however to say that we dont cure anything is crazy.......how else can you explain life expectancy doubling in the past 100 years or so.....evolution......mental toughness

    Yes it is polyannaism to think that doctors can cure everything.....it is in a sense a job...however you guys are grossly simplifying the picture
     
  14. Long Hair and a Beard

    Long Hair and a Beard Obsessionist

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    Mike, you don't talk like a paediatrician either. Vaccination PREVENTS diseases not cure them. And penicillin has reduced mortality in developing countries too.

    I belive the people here are trying to make two separate points here:
    a) that you should never think that you can treat each and every condition. You can't.
    b) and that even if you cure a disease, it is more important that you provide overall relief to the patient's symptoms.
     
  15. carddr

    carddr Senior Member

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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Devashish:
    <strong>Mike, you don't talk like a paediatrician either. Vaccination PREVENTS diseases not cure them. And penicillin has reduced mortality in developing countries too.

    I belive the people here are trying to make two separate points here:
    a) that you should never think that you can treat each and every condition. You can't.
    b) and that even if you cure a disease, it is more important that you provide overall relief to the patient's symptoms.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"><img border="0" alt="[Clappy]" title="" src="graemlins/clappy.gif" /> Exactly, nicely said!!!
     
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  17. doughboy

    doughboy Senior Member

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    When you work your butt off, do your best, and then you get sued by an ambulance chasing lawyer, I don't think they're going to care how much good you've done. One mistake and its over...sometimes not even a mistake, just a tragic outcome. Boy, feels good to work under that kind of an environment. Also, unless you're a reseach scientist, I don't think you're curing anything or discovering anything...does it really take 4 years of undergrad, 4 years of med school, and 3-4 years of residency to be able to take that needle and inject someone?
     
  18. Mindy

    Mindy Senior Member

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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by MikeS 78:
    <strong>all of you are a bunch of ignorant morons. or a bunch of dermatologists with a bad case of short sightedness
    </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Eeek, I wouldn't necessarily respond to this but since I was included as an "ignorant moron"...

    Mike, find me the cure for death.

    Forgive my fatalistic viewpoint, but I agree wholeheartedly with the other members of this thread. Physicians can only hope to relieve suffering, because their is no vaccination against the inevitable.

    Furthermore, Mike, if you are familiar with mortality curves you'll find that you can make more members of a species (including humans) live to a certain age (i.e. the rise in average age of death). However once a certain endpoint is reached (which appears to hover around 100 years in humans) survival drops off precipitously. It has therefore been postulized that each species has a maximum number of years each individual can possibly exist. You certainly don't have to buy it, but the research exists.

    So, Mike, before you acuse me (and the others) on this thread of "short-sightedness" and ignorance, please face your own issues with mortality.

    Mindy
     
  19. dr.evil

    dr.evil Senior Member
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    Ignorant moron I may be but if I'm EVER called a dermatologist again... :mad: <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

    I'll repeat my former comment: "But in reality, physicians are simply here to improve the quality of life of our patients"

    Whether you call it a cure for a disease or prolonging death is your prerogative.

    As a gneral surgeon: If I resect an early stage colon cancer, then you're right that I have likely cured this patient of colon cancer. I can also cure a patient of abdominal pain caused by symptomatic cholelithiasis with a lap chole.

    But I will also perform many procedures to improve the quality of life or simply prolong the inevitable.

    So of course we cure some problems and NO ONE on this thread said we don't cure some diseases. :confused:

    I forgot what the point was. :rolleyes:
     
  20. i agree with most of what you said, and the lounge people are idiots. i want to be a dermatologist or ER, whatever my future wive prefers.
    and all my grandgreatmo's lived to 90+, and most grandpa's live to 70.
     
  21. DarksideAllstar

    DarksideAllstar you can pay me in bud

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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by borya_2002:
    <strong>i agree with most of what you said, and the lounge people are idiots. i want to be a dermatologist or ER, whatever my future wive prefers.
    and all my grandgreatmo's lived to 90+, and most grandpa's live to 70.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Why are we idiots? You are the one who says stupid, thoughtless things to us.
     
  22. MikeS 78

    MikeS 78 Senior Member

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    Read the posts prior to my post and tell me again that no one made the claim that doctors dont cure anything.....It was said 3 or 4 times explicitly and was the pervasive theme of the entire post

    I never stated that the goal of medicine was to make men immortal...or to cure anything..as most of the people who responded's all or nothing logic led them to believe....and yes death is inevitable...but now my initial comments were not aimed at everyone posting....however there was a pervasive theme that doctors don't cure anything

    First and foremost you dont palliate pneumococcal pneumonia with Abx you typically are going for full cure.....replacing the mitral valve in someone with MS who has not progressed to atrial dilation and A fib often is curative....I could go on with diseases that we cure rather effectively

    Now we can discuss the philosophical and sociolgical ramifications of this fact for hours.....whether or not it is worth it or not but the fact still remains....alot of illness is cured by the actions of physicians....which is my initial point.....that the post was littered with all or nothing thinking and that many of you sounded like morons in the process....a statement that I still stand by

    yes we all die eventually.....but is anyone here actually advocating that a 45 year old dying of an MI is a desirable outcome because hell we dont cure anything....lets withhold the CABG because were just "prolonging the natural course of the illness"

    Yes I agree that performing numerous surgeries and heroic measures to prolong the life of a 96 year old women with multi organ failure is a tad excessive.....but i think to state all therapeutic measures as a simple prolongation of life is to greatly simplify the human existence into a overly simplistic, and inaccurate binarism
     
  23. carddr

    carddr Senior Member

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    :D
    Man, MikeS 78, if you were an Attorney I would hire you in a NY minute!!! You are good.Argued your case with conviction and very persuasively. Got my vote!!
     
  24. dlbruch

    dlbruch Senior Member

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    Whoa, MikeS 78, you are jumping to conclusions and then arguing against them. I did re-read the posts before yours and NOBODY said that doctors don't cure disease, they said that doctors "don't save lives, they prolong them" and that sometimes we can't cure some diseases. Are you going to argue with any of these statements which were actually made?

    The big picture discussion here is about how much we should feel responsible for successes or failures in treating patients. I side with the folks who see medicine as a "service-type profession." I agree with you that there are conditions we can "cure" and therefore significantly prolong life. In the end, though, I think it is in improving the quality of the time we have that is most important- treating patients with respect and care, doing as much as we can with empathy, and accepting that we will all eventually yield to some disease or malady, no matter how good our doctors or we are.
     

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