NP to MD at 40 - advice?

[RS5NP]

I have a BSN, MSN, post-Master APRN. Could anyone chime in on which courses I *need* to take and the timeline for applying to med school? Here's what I have so far:

Currently re-taking College Algebra bc my original course was way back in 2003

Spring 2021 - Biology I, Trig Chem I
Summer 2021 - Biology II and Chem II
Fall 2021 - Physics I, Human Anatomy
Spring 2022 - OCHEM I, Physics II
Summer 2022 - OCHEM II, Human Physiology
Fall 2022 - Biochem, possibly stats or immunology

My Comp I and Comp II were also in the early 2000s? Will I need to re-take these?

Where in this timeline do I actually apply for med school/take MCAT? If accepted when would I actually *start* med school?

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[EMDream]

I'm just going to be following your thread here, but wanted to say hello my fellow APP, I'm a 38 year old PA (13 years) following the same path after literally a whole career of hedging.
I'm retaking a lot of my old pre-reqs for both better grades (science GPA is 3.1 ).
Good luck to you!

 

[proudofmykids]

I'm not saying it's the right thing, but the easiest path would be to start studying full time for mcats in Fall '22, take them winter 23 (afterward a month of 100% studying with no other courses). Then pre write your personal statement and all secondary essays in Spring 23, Apply Summer 23 and start medschool fall 2024.
Remember you need service hours, and shadowing, maybe some research too ideally before you apply.

 

[deleted872555]

it seems like you got all the pre-reqs down. not sure about whether to retake Comp 1 and 2, someone more experienced on that can comment i’m sure.

as far as your timeline: since you’re finishing up the last pre-req in Fall 2022, you can start studying for the MCAT once that semester ends. most people study for about 3-4 months. take the MCAT anytime during Spring 2023. i recommend taking it by the end of May/beginning of June if you want to be considered an “early” applicant since it will take a month for scores to be released.

following this timeline, you would apply in May 2023 and would start medical school in Fall 2024.

you’re an NP so you have ample amounts of high-quality healthcare experience already. keep up that GPA, kill the MCAT, get physician shadowing (LOR here as well, or in your case, a letter from a physician you've worked with), and make sure to get clinical and non-clinical volunteering! additionally, maintain good relationships w/ your science professors so you can get strong LORs.

best of luck to you!

 

[RS5NP]

I'm just going to be following your thread here, but wanted to say hello my fellow APP, I'm a 38 year old PA (13 years) following the same path after literally a whole career of hedging.
I'm retaking a lot of my old pre-reqs for both better grades (science GPA is 3.1 ).
Good luck to you!

Good to meet you! I'm happy to see someone in a similar situation embarking on this journey

 

[Angus Avagadro]

Far be it from me to get in the way of someone chasing their dream, but I want to inject some realism here. Have you considered the ROI, return on investment of this possibility? The cost of taking the required courses, MCAT, study time away from family or sig other? Not to mention the cost of med school? There will be 11 yrs lost from when you begin the process till you finish residency,. There will be an income loss during this time, so 100k a yr for 11 yrs is 1.1 million. Granted there are options, join the military, NPHS, etc. It looks like you will be matriculating, best case, in 2024. You will be what,44? 7 yrs of med school and residency, 300 to 400k of debt and you begin work at 51. So 1.1 mil plus 400k med school debt, how long till you surpass the lost income plus debt as a doctor? Money is not everything, but it sure helps. If you are still gung ho after doing the math, then good luck and best wishes! My future daughter in law is a trauma PA for 6 yrs. She makes very good money and loves what she does. I tried to recruit her and she wants nothing to do with med school. It's doable, just a long tough road.

 

[zorcandpals]

financially its probably not worth it but then we dont all do things for money.

I think enough schools require one semester of calculus that it would be worth adding if you can fit it.

 

[orthoPA81]

I’ll chime in as well. I’m 38 and have been a PA for 7 years. I applied this cycle to one DO program and got in. I did exactly zero shadowing but had a few hundred volunteer hours. If NP isn’t enough for you then I say go for it.

 

[RS5NP]

Far be it from me to get in the way of someone chasing their dream, but I want to inject some realism here. Have you considered the ROI, return on investment of this possibility? The cost of taking the required courses, MCAT, study time away from family or sig other? Not to mention the cost of med school? There will be 11 yrs lost from when you begin the process till you finish residency,. There will be an income loss during this time, so 100k a yr for 11 yrs is 1.1 million. Granted there are options, join the military, NPHS, etc. It looks like you will be matriculating, best case, in 2024. You will be what,44? 7 yrs of med school and residency, 300 to 400k of debt and you begin work at 51. So 1.1 mil plus 400k med school debt, how long till you surpass the lost income plus debt as a doctor? Money is not everything, but it sure helps. If you are still gung ho after doing the math, then good luck and best wishes! My future daughter in law is a trauma PA for 6 yrs. She makes very good money and loves what she does. I tried to recruit her and she wants nothing to do with med school. It's doable, just a long tough road.

I think that is sage advice. Yes, I did calculate things out on Excel. This is just kind of me looking through a crystal ball but I feel like the market is getting oversaturated and I don't see independent practice becoming widespread anytime soon.

 

[Tenk]

Yeah, don’t. You’d be leaving over a million dollars on the table for this.

 

[EMDream]

Far be it from me to get in the way of someone chasing their dream, but I want to inject some realism here. Have you considered the ROI, return on investment of this possibility? The cost of taking the required courses, MCAT, study time away from family or sig other? Not to mention the cost of med school? There will be 11 yrs lost from when you begin the process till you finish residency,. There will be an income loss during this time, so 100k a yr for 11 yrs is 1.1 million. Granted there are options, join the military, NPHS, etc. It looks like you will be matriculating, best case, in 2024. You will be what,44? 7 yrs of med school and residency, 300 to 400k of debt and you begin work at 51. So 1.1 mil plus 400k med school debt, how long till you surpass the lost income plus debt as a doctor? Money is not everything, but it sure helps. If you are still gung ho after doing the math, then good luck and best wishes! My future daughter in law is a trauma PA for 6 yrs. She makes very good money and loves what she does. I tried to recruit her and she wants nothing to do with med school. It's doable, just a long tough road.

I can answer this for myself, not OP, but similar circumstance.
I have turned this over my head countless times. And the truth is I am completely miserable as a PA at this point. I make 130k a year, have made much more upwards of 150k. It's definitely not the money. I have colleagues tell me over and over. "You're so smart, you should have gone to medical school." Haha, yeah. I should have. But I didn't, and I still have to deal with patients refusing to see me, doctors refusing to speak to "the midlevel" getting talked down to over and over. It really sucks to have a new grad doctor be able to come in and just be like "No, we are doing this." And guess what? It isn't the right choice. The doctors all have a good giggle about how I diagnose things they didn't think of then Nickle and dime me over EVERYTHING regarding pay/call. Working internationally is incredibly difficult for me as a PA.

I can never practice truly at my highest level. Yeah. I will lose a **** TON of money. My husband knows this. He has seen the inner turmoil this has caused me for our entire relationship. I know I will be working a long time to make it "worth it". Truthfully. I already work relentlessly, take work home with me, answer my phone on weekends when I shouldn't. I guess if I'm going to be practicing medicine and miserable/exhausted I might as well get the title and the actual opportunities I will never have as a PA.

 

[EMDream]

I’ll chime in as well. I’m 38 and have been a PA for 7 years. I applied this cycle to one DO program and got in. I did exactly zero shadowing but had a few hundred volunteer hours. If NP isn’t enough for you then I say go for it.

Congratulations! Good luck to you.

 

[EMDream]

I'm not saying it's the right thing, but the easiest path would be to start studying full time for mcats in Fall '22, take them winter 23 (afterward a month of 100% studying with no other courses). Then pre write your personal statement and all secondary essays in Spring 23, Apply Summer 23 and start medschool fall 2024.
Remember you need service hours, and shadowing, maybe some research too ideally before you apply.

Wait how can an NP/PA need shadowing when they literally practice alongside doctors?

 

[Angus Avagadro]

Sorry you feel this way. Maybe the culture at your job is more of the problem than the job? I know my future daughter in law was a PA in the ER at a major academic center. She would come home at the end of the day in tears. Seeing patients and ordering x rays from the waiting room. Some studies woild be imcomplete as the patient could not receive contrast because they werent signed in yet. Now a PA on the trauma service at a level1 center and is very happy. Trauma service as we know is not the easiest service to be on. The people at the job are critical to the fulfillment you get from the job. Regardless, just think about it. A job switch is easier than going the career change route. Somerhing to consider. Anyway, whatever you choose, good luck and best wishes!

 

[orthoPA81]

Wait how can an NP/PA need shadowing when they literally practice alongside doctors?

I met with an MD program faculty and they would not budge on the shadowing hours. It didn’t matter that I had hundreds of hours as first assist in surgery. Needless to say I didn’t apply there.

 

[Moko]

I still have to deal with patients refusing to see me, doctors refusing to speak to "the midlevel" getting talked down to over and over. It really sucks to have a new grad doctor be able to come in and just be like "No, we are doing this." And guess what? It isn't the right choice. The doctors all have a good giggle about how I diagnose things they didn't think of then Nickle and dime me over EVERYTHING regarding pay/call.

I agree with @Angus Avagadro. Have you explored other job opportunities? At my workplace, PAs and NPs are valued as colleagues, and we have a very collegial relationship. The behaviors you've experienced would not be tolerated at my workplace. Best of luck with whatever you decide.

 

[enchantments]

Wait how can an NP/PA need shadowing when they literally practice alongside doctors?

I met with an MD program faculty and they would not budge on the shadowing hours. It didn’t matter that I had hundreds of hours as first assist in surgery. Needless to say I didn’t apply there.

Just commenting on the shadowing aspect - while a very small number of MD schools may be strict on shadowing, most don't really care anymore as long as you've worked/volunteered alongside physicians in some capacity. Believe it or not, I completely forgot to list my ~60 hours of shadowing on AMCAS (lol) but still got lots of MD/DO interviews with ~1.5 years of scribing, which was my only activity involving direct contact with physicians.

Notably, IU says this on their site-

Applicants should shadow a minimum of three physicians and participate in meaningful medical and service-learning activities before applying to Indiana University School of Medicine.

but I interviewed there as well.

For an NP/PA applicant, I can't imagine any reasonable adcom would ding your app for not silently chasing around a doc for a few hours when you've worked alongside them for thousands.

 

[Way Too B-- A--]

as far as your timeline: since you’re finishing up the last pre-req in Fall 2022, you can start studying for the MCAT once that semester ends. most people study for about 3-4 months. take the MCAT anytime during Spring 2023. i recommend taking it by the end of May/beginning of June if you want to be considered an “early” applicant since it will take a month for scores to be released.

following this timeline, you would apply in May 2023 and would start medical school in Fall 2024.

I’m new here, but could they not also apply for fall 2023 and just have 2 outstanding classes to take prior to applying?

 

[deleted872555]

I’m new here, but could they not also apply for fall 2023 and just have 2 outstanding classes to take prior to applying?

i mean, they can. but then they’d have to take the MCAT during Spring 2022 which would mean w/ out ochem 2, physio, and biochem & self studying those three subjects.

i feel like it’d be more ideal to take the MCAT after all the pre-reqs are finished (especially biochem since it’s the most prevalent on the MCAT), AND studying for it when you have no classes going on.

 

[Select All That Apply]

@Angus Avagadro Have also seen PAs have incredible fulfillment from working Level 1 trauma. Would have likely kept all of them if the hospital didn't give them the middle finger by laying them off and then as an after thought offered them 1/2 - 3/4 of their normal pay to come back. Have also seen Ortho PAs stay with the service for a very long time and seem to be fulfilled by the work they do. It seems like PAs in less peri-operative roles e.g. medicine or ED service are more likely to get burned out and usually don't make it past 5 years with any given service.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

@Angus Avagadro Have also seen PAs have incredible fulfillment from working Level 1 trauma. Would have likely kept all of them if the hospital didn't give them the middle finger by laying them off and then as an after thought offered them 1/2 - 3/4 of their normal pay to come back. Have also seen Ortho PAs stay with the service for a very long time and seem to be fulfilled by the work they do. It seems like PAs in less peri-operative roles e.g. medicine or ED service are more likely to get burned out and usually don't make it past 5 years with any given service.

Yes, my future daughter in law grew to hate the ER