NP vs PA in Indiana, specialities

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luctoretemergo

luctoretemergo

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I am student in Indiana who has a BA Chemistry (3.6 GPA) and a MS Biology (Non-thesis, 3.2GPA, a pre-professional degree)

I am considering reapplying to DO schools this year...however I am leaning towards the NP/PA track. I have all ready applied to PA school and will have to take Anatomy lect/lab, Microbio, Stats, and Organic II lab in the spring if I decide this route. I will have to do this prior to knowing if I get into PA school or not.

I have shadowed PAs, doctors, etc. I also worked as a Pharm Tech for 2 years (relative to the 'points' system PA schools use)

However, I am beginning to consider the nursing school track. Here at IUPUI there is a 20 credit hour program to get a BSN if you already have a Bachelors degree. And the NP program is 45 credit hours and 600 clinic hours.

I am curious as to the prospect of each option here in Indiana. I would like to stay around the Castleton/Indianapolis area for my career. My highest areas of interest based on shadowing are dermatology (cosmetic derm is a huge interest of mine), radiology, surgery, or anesthesia.

The pro's of being a PA is being able to rotate between specialities, a shorter time of completion before practicing, and more of an 8 to 5 without worrying about malpractice. However, I have heard that PAs have little authority in Indiana compared to other states, and I worry about being considered highly inferior by doctors and patients.

I guess my question is, I want to chose the right profession for my location. Researching this is huge to me, as I had considered optometry school and was glad I researched and found the lack of growth for the next coming decade.

What route would you recommend in order to get the most return on investment? I could see myself happy with either option, so long as I was helping patients in a field I love.

Edit: MCAT was a 26 on 2nd try. 9BS 8V 9PS

Thanks in advance!
 
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IF you want to specialize then PA would be the best route and with your background it would definitely be your best bet. Without any prior medical experience though it might make it tough getting into either route.

Be careful of the fast track NP programs. They usually say its 3 years full time but it's not because they make you have like a thousand nursing hours before you can start the masters level classes. Also NP is more for someone who wants general practice. The PA is made more for specialties. Now you could specialize in derm as a nurse but most likely you'd be functioning as an APN who has worked several years as an RN for a derm clinic. Two different beasts entirely.

If you want to specialize do the PA route.

Just my two cents.
 
luctoretemergo said:
I am student in Indiana who has a BA Chemistry (3.6 GPA) and a MS Biology (Non-thesis, 3.2GPA, a pre-professional degree)

I am considering reapplying to DO schools this year...however I am leaning towards the NP/PA track. I have all ready applied to PA school and will have to take Anatomy lect/lab, Microbio, Stats, and Organic II lab in the spring if I decide this route. I will have to do this prior to knowing if I get into PA school or not.

I have shadowed PAs, doctors, etc. I also worked as a Pharm Tech for 2 years (relative to the 'points' system PA schools use)

However, I am beginning to consider the nursing school track. Here at IUPUI there is a 20 credit hour program to get a BSN if you already have a Bachelors degree. And the NP program is 45 credit hours and 600 clinic hours.

I am curious as to the prospect of each option here in Indiana. I would like to stay around the Castleton/Indianapolis area for my career. My highest areas of interest based on shadowing are dermatology (cosmetic derm is a huge interest of mine), radiology, surgery, or anesthesia.

The pro's of being a PA is being able to rotate between specialities, a shorter time of completion before practicing, and more of an 8 to 5 without worrying about malpractice. However, I have heard that PAs have little authority in Indiana compared to other states, and I worry about being considered highly inferior by doctors and patients.

I guess my question is, I want to chose the right profession for my location. Researching this is huge to me, as I had considered optometry school and was glad I researched and found the lack of growth for the next coming decade.

What route would you recommend in order to get the most return on investment? I could see myself happy with either option, so long as I was helping patients in a field I love.

Edit: MCAT was a 26 on 2nd try. 9BS 8V 9PS

Thanks in advance!
Click to expand...

I would apply to more D.O. schools. Are you limited to where your applying? If all else fails and you want to be a doctor apply to a newer school if your comfortable with that situation because I can promise you , you will be unhappy as a PA with that initial mindset of using it as a back up. I was in a similar boat as you years ago and I went the PA route due to being burnt out for a multitude of reasons(pm me if interested in story) and did fine. Didn't plan on going back to med. school but here I am 6years older, and married and in med. school with an extra 200K+ of debt looming(my job is covering school though as long as I go back which I am.)

So think LONG about that decision. If your truly happy with patient care and not concerned with anything else then you should go to the PA route. If you like the basic science, knowing the why behind dz processes, pathology etc... and want to be the Big Dog in charge go med.
 
So think LONG about that decision. If your truly happy with patient care and not concerned with anything else then you should go to the PA route. If you like the basic science, knowing the why behind dz processes, pathology etc... and want to be the Big Dog in charge go med.[/QUOTE]


Knowing the why behind disease processes? Basic sciences? I disagree with this assessment of PAs and their training. As a former PA of four years and now MD, I do agree that MD/DO training is the gold standard in medical education. However, i've found PA training/education in pathophysiology to be quite strong. I've mentored/precepted PAs in the ER/IM for a number of years and I've been quite impressed with many a PA's knowledge of the disease process and pathophys of many diseases. Of course a few were lacking in this area, but I've also trained MS-1 and 2's lacking in that area as well. The vast majority of PAs may not have been as well versed as the MDs in the disease process, but they definitely know the "why" of disease processes.

However, to the OP, I absolutely do agree that PA should not be a "backup" plan. No doubt one can have a great career as a PA in regards to responsibility, good pay, etc. Many PA students wanted to be PAs exclusively, and nothing else (including MDs). However, just the fact that you are contemplating the two tells me that deep down you want to be a physician.
 
Agree, apply to more DO schools. You have a rose-colored view of PA practice. Relatively few PAs have 8-5 jobs. We all worry about malpractice. You have to take 4 more big classes to even matriculate to a PA program (most schools don't use the "points" system you mention but the prereqs are pretty universal.) Your clinical experience is low for a PA program. I am not a fan of DE nursing programs as I fail to see how you can be oriented to the nursing role in just 20 credit hours (OMG are they all that short?!) but you might find the type of lifestyle you are looking for in NP practice. With a bio MS you will be in good stead for DO and PA programs but will most likely be disappointed in the lack of hard science education in NP programs (and somewhat true for PA programs but much less so).
You must consider whether you are content with knowing the "what" and "what to do" of medicine (PA, NP) without knowing the "how" and "why" and "what else" (MD, DO). If you can make peace with this reality then PA/NP might work out well for you. If not, go to medical school. You can always move back home for residency/practice.
Good luck,
Lisa PA-C, OMS1
 
You have it backwards. PAs are trained as generalists...hence the lateral mobility which allows relatively easy entrance into specialties if one desires. NPs must declare their specialty scope at the beginning (FNP, PNP, WHNP, ANP etc) and have a much more focused and limited education than PAs.
Yes, I'm a PA and a PA educator and I am biased...but check your facts.

TheEarDoc said:
IF you want to specialize then PA would be the best route and with your background it would definitely be your best bet. Without any prior medical experience though it might make it tough getting into either route.

Be careful of the fast track NP programs. They usually say its 3 years full time but it's not because they make you have like a thousand nursing hours before you can start the masters level classes. Also NP is more for someone who wants general practice. The PA is made more for specialties. Now you could specialize in derm as a nurse but most likely you'd be functioning as an APN who has worked several years as an RN for a derm clinic. Two different beasts entirely.

If you want to specialize do the PA route.

Just my two cents.
Click to expand...
 
primadonna22274 said:
You have it backwards. PAs are trained as generalists...hence the lateral mobility which allows relatively easy entrance into specialties if one desires. NPs must declare their specialty scope at the beginning (FNP, PNP, WHNP, ANP etc) and have a much more focused and limited education than PAs.
Yes, I'm a PA and a PA educator and I am biased...but check your facts.
Click to expand...
Going FNP you can easily branch out and go into various subspecialities. Granted not as easy as PA but it's still possible. I know plenty of FNP's who have branched out into specialties such derm, ENT, etc. with little extra training. FNP is about as generalist as you can get in masters level nursing. I know PA's can work as generalists, but most specialize. I also know in my area you have a better chance of getting a job as a CNP than a PA as a generalist. It varies location to location. Don't think I'm knocking PA's because if I was at a point in my life that I wanted to specialize and with my background I'd be in PA school but FNP was a better route for me personally. I also researched jobs for my area and most prefer FNP to PA for generalist so I chose FNP plus my place of employment is willing to foot the bill for one and not the other. Odds are I will be a generalist or work in a large ENT group.

I have a lot of respect for all mid levels. Always have and always will.

To the original author of this thread, if being the top dog and final decision maker is what you want to be in the medical field then make no mistakes you want to go to medical school or DO school. Me I've always wanted to be midlevel. Audiology I thought would give me that niche I wanted but I want more responsibility and more job opportunities. So hence my career change. If I wanted the doctor lifestyle I would have taken osteopathic school the three times I had that option. Just not the life I want. I want the 4 tens or 9-5 job with no On call shifts.

Just look into what you really want and go for it!
 
PAtoMD91 said:
So think LONG about that decision. If your truly happy with patient care and not concerned with anything else then you should go to the PA route. If you like the basic science, knowing the why behind dz processes, pathology etc... and want to be the Big Dog in charge go med.
Click to expand...


Knowing the why behind disease processes? Basic sciences? I disagree with this assessment of PAs and their training. As a former PA of four years and now MD, I do agree that MD/DO training is the gold standard in medical education. However, i've found PA training/education in pathophysiology to be quite strong. I've mentored/precepted PAs in the ER/IM for a number of years and I've been quite impressed with many a PA's knowledge of the disease process and pathophys of many diseases. Of course a few were lacking in this area, but I've also trained MS-1 and 2's lacking in that area as well. The vast majority of PAs may not have been as well versed as the MDs in the disease process, but they definitely know the "why" of disease processes.

However, to the OP, I absolutely do agree that PA should not be a "backup" plan. No doubt one can have a great career as a PA in regards to responsibility, good pay, etc. Many PA students wanted to be PAs exclusively, and nothing else (including MDs). However, just the fact that you are contemplating the two tells me that deep down you want to be a physician.[/QUOTE]

Guess we have to agree to disagree. I know my PA program was focused more on clinical aspects of medicine instead of the Physiology/Biochem. behind it. We have very good board pass rates(my class was 100%) and it is an older established program.

Also I don't think a lot of our programs get pathology as well which at least for me showed me how to look at different diseases at a different angle.

So I am similar(PA-to-Physician) but no equal since your an attending 🙂
How is life after going through both processes?
 
Makati2008 said:
Knowing the why behind disease processes? Basic sciences? I disagree with this assessment of PAs and their training. As a former PA of four years and now MD, I do agree that MD/DO training is the gold standard in medical education. However, i've found PA training/education in pathophysiology to be quite strong. I've mentored/precepted PAs in the ER/IM for a number of years and I've been quite impressed with many a PA's knowledge of the disease process and pathophys of many diseases. Of course a few were lacking in this area, but I've also trained MS-1 and 2's lacking in that area as well. The vast majority of PAs may not have been as well versed as the MDs in the disease process, but they definitely know the "why" of disease processes.

However, to the OP, I absolutely do agree that PA should not be a "backup" plan. No doubt one can have a great career as a PA in regards to responsibility, good pay, etc. Many PA students wanted to be PAs exclusively, and nothing else (including MDs). However, just the fact that you are contemplating the two tells me that deep down you want to be a physician.

Guess we have to agree to disagree. I know my PA program was focused more on clinical aspects of medicine instead of the Physiology/Biochem. behind it. We have very good board pass rates(my class was 100%) and it is an older established program.

Also I don't think a lot of our programs get pathology as well which at least for me showed me how to look at different diseases at a different angle.

So I am similar(PA-to-Physician) but no equal since your an attending 🙂
How is life after going through both processes?
Click to expand...

If you're a medical student, how can you be an MD? Aren't you in an osteopathic program?
 
luctoretemergo,
Which did you end up doing? I am in your same boat. I am considering/debating between NP/PA and I am very interested in cosmetology/esthetics/dermatology. My long-term goal after graduating nursing school and NP school is to open my own Botox clinic. Do you have any advice or can you tell me how/what you ended up doing?
 
RNIUPUI said:
luctoretemergo,
Which did you end up doing? I am in your same boat. I am considering/debating between NP/PA and I am very interested in cosmetology/esthetics/dermatology. My long-term goal after graduating nursing school and NP school is to open my own Botox clinic. Do you have any advice or can you tell me how/what you ended up doing?
Click to expand...

lmao. this! this is going to solve our massive shortage in healthcare providers!
 
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Most the specialties you mentioned are more inpatient, right, OP? PA tends to be better for inpatient. I'm going for NP because I want to work in psych, and psych NPs are actually trained in psychotherapy and licensed to provide it, unlike PAs. But if you are interested in surgery/inpatient and decide on the midlevel route, I believe PA makes the most sense, from what I have heard. I'm just a BSN student so take with a grain of salt.
 
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