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Oh - one last question? Why aren't you pursuing this topic in the podiatry forum?
It was discussed there already.
Oh - one last question? Why aren't you pursuing this topic in the podiatry forum?
I can't speak for other professions, but I would greatly disagree with the impetus for the DNP. It is not a political move, but more a logistical one. We need more doctorates in order to increase nursing school enrollment. Most of the students in my class are faculty members of a school of nursing. Yes, there are some that work strictly as NP's, and one or two that just want the title "doctor." However, there will always be some in every profession that want to be something they are not. However, that was not the reason for starting the program. Contrary to popular belief, most nurses do not want to be physicians, and don't want people to think they are physicians. there are only a few.
no offense intended here but aren't they pushing the dnp as a clinical doctorate with the idea of producing more clinicians as opposed to more faculty or researchers? all the dnp websites talk about the role of the dnp in clinical medicine.
there have been phd rn programs for years for faculty development.
no offense intended here but aren't they pushing the dnp as a clinical doctorate with the idea of producing more clinicians as opposed to more faculty or researchers? all the dnp websites talk about the role of the dnp in clinical medicine.
there have been phd rn programs for years for faculty development.
The intent for DNP education is clinical not faculty.
...and increased control over the primary care market.
Primary care, nothing!! We intend to RULE THE WORLD!!! (Insert evil laugh here)
You're confusing DNP's with NP's - Doctorate of Nursing Practice (which supposedly would include all major "advanced nurse practice" specialties including anesthesia, CNM, etc.) and simply Nurse Practitioner.I'm all for DNPs moving into the primary care market. MDs/DOs will likely become specialists or administrators in this scenario, which most will accept because they are "on top." The public's healthcare needs will be better met and egos on both sides will be satisfied. Win win.
You're confusing DNP's with NP's - Doctorate of Nursing Practice (which supposedly would include all major "advanced nurse practice" specialties including anesthesia, CNM, etc.) and simply Nurse Practitioner.
From what I hear the CRNA is having the most difficulty with the DNP.
You need to actually READ the bill.
The problem is that some non-physicians, especially those with doctorate degrees, seem to think that it is acceptable to be referred to as DR. in a healthcare setting, and in fact DO mislead patients into thinking they are a physician when they are not. This happens NOW, and includes doctorate-prepared CRNA's, PT's, PharmD's and others. When patients hear the word "doctor", they assume physician. They don't assume therapist, nurse, pharmacist, etc.
Although the wording of the bill might not be perfect, the intent of the bill is perfectly legitimate and reasonable.
But really.... I don't worry about the whole "D"NP thang too much. That's because most doctors I know hate the "D" in NP and feel threatened by it. Their lobby is powerful enough. Conversley, the "A" in PA is much less threatening (To MDs) and therefore infinitely more marketable
What you pretend not to know will hurt you. "D" is synonymous with Independence. Just as "less threatening" is synonymous with more marketable, Arrogance (Insinuating MDs are less clinically competant, or 'equal' to mid-levels...."What difference will the "D" make for MDs?"... ) is a marketplace liablity.
Your words, not mine....slick. I do not think MDs are less competant or equal. The rest is self explanitory. i.e.- Less threatening = more marketable. Arrogance (Overuse of "D" title by those other than MDs, or insinuating Mid-Levels are equivalent somehow to MDs) is Less marketable. Some people are just too thick to get it, I suppose.QUOTE]
I must be slow, please explain how being less threatening = more marketable? While your on your "explanitory" platform provide ONE reference that documents midlevels overuse of the "D". In addition, please tell me how using "slick" and "too thick" helps make your point? Don't you think using the "spell check" function would be a better use of your time?
So PAs in NY can prescribe all kinds of meds? And diagnose?
So PAs in NY can prescribe all kinds of meds? And diagnose?
Being ignorant on this DNP topic, I'm confused. What advantage does that bring over a NP or PA???
People call you doctor!
That is it??? There are no other advantages in privileges?
If you wanted to be called doctor you can get a PhD in basket weaving. That is not an advantage in my mind.
DNP is equal to PhD, but instead of research, you do a "practice" project.
You may just be the only one in the country who thinks a DNP is even remotely equivalent to a PhD. That's TOTAL BS.
Actually, I take that back - let's put it another way - outside of nursing, NO ONE in the country thinks a DNP is remotely equivalent to a PhD.
You're taking programs already in existence at a master's degree level - adding a few months (if any) to the program, and calling it a DNP.
A DNP and PhD are not remotely equivalent. You need to understand the issue (which you freely admit you are "ignorant" about) before you accuse anyone of being a jerk. And the flippant comments from Baylee that "people call you doctor" is exactly the problem.You are always such an jerk. Are you a DNP??? You are an AA, and are like the new kid on the block. You inferiority complex is amazing.
DNP thanks for the answer. I figured the DNP was similar to a PhD. It offers more teaching/research opportunities, but I wanted clarity that there were no other privileges involved. Don't let this CRNA wanna be ruffle your feathers.
A DNP and PhD are not remotely equivalent. You need to understand the issue (which you freely admit you are "ignorant" about) before you accuse anyone of being a jerk. And the flippant comments from Baylee that "people call you doctor" is exactly the problem.
BTW - I'm hardly a new kid - I've been in practice more than 25 years as an AA.
This is all pretty funny coming from a student.
JWK is closer to being right on this one. The DNP is not equal to the PhD, the DNP is a clinical doctorate.
You may just be the only one in the country who thinks a DNP is even remotely equivalent to a PhD. That's TOTAL BS.
Actually, I take that back - let's put it another way - outside of nursing, NO ONE in the country thinks a DNP is remotely equivalent to a PhD.
You're taking programs already in existence at a master's degree level - adding a few months (if any) to the program, and calling it a DNP.
JWK is closer to being right on this one. The DNP is not equal to the PhD, the DNP is a clinical doctorate. Considered the same as the Pharm D and other "D" for physical therapy, speech, Occupational......
The proposed curriculm for the DNP is 3 years in length (including summers), or 4 years without summers. A bit more than a "couple of months" beyond a masters.
I don't mean that we do the same things in the DNP that are done in the PhD. I just mean that degrees are equlivalent in the amount of work done. The PhD is a research degree-the student focuses on research. The DNP is a clinical/practice degree-we focus on clinical/practice issues.
As for calling myself "doctor" I don't really care if anyone ever calls me that. It is not important to me.
You will care about being called Dr whether you think you will or even want to. It is simply behavioral psych; People will call you Dr, then they trust you more than nurse so and so. It greases wheels everywhere; if I call the lab, pharmacy, hospital etc and say this is Dr....... as opposed to Joe from the clinic I get a response. Do not fool yourselves with this. If you get the DNP you can and will be called Dr, and it is your job to explain you are not a physician; I do this every day as a medical psychologist. I say I am Dr..... a psychologist here at ......, and nobody thinks I am a physician. That argument is ridiculous.
Sorry, but I agree with the bill. If you want to prescribe and perform complex procedures, go to med school.
Actually, with a mother who is an FP and employs a few PAs, I do know a thing or 2 about PAs.
I don't mind prescriptions for birth control pills or similar drugs done by PAs, but they should not be prescribing serious medications. Now, just what are serious medications? Well, that would take a lot of sitting down with a Desk Reference and Drug journal to sort through, and since I haven't been to med school and spent +/- 4 years in a residency, I don't know much about medication and side effects and just what kind of training is necessary to be dealing out certain prescriptions.
As for being an SLP - I don't deal with PAs in a professional sense. All the insurance companies and state agencies I contract with require PHYSICIAN approval, not PA approval. I know several PAs, but not through my work.
When making a comment about "having no idea" about a profession - best to send me a PM first to check it out rather than making a silly comment like that.
That's like me saying you have no idea about the SLP profession based on your response to my post. I have no idea if you do or not.
Yes I knew this, but I can still have an opinion.
I have years of experience in nursing homes, hospitals, rehab centers, and home health working with dsyphagia related to CVA, TBI, CP, Cx, etc., etc., and while some of the patients had PAs seeing them in lieu of a physician on rounds, per reimbursment issues, we had to get physician approval for assessment/treatment. I work in EI now and they are incredibly strict about that. Not my rules, but I like getting paid. In fact, the state audited 100+ charts of mine last year and one criterion for service compliance was to have a copy of the script written by a physician.
The title of this thread includes both NPs and PAs.... maybe you want to address this to the OP. Also, I have never claimed to be a doctor - you have even been commenting on my SLP work! Could you point out where I've indicated that I'm a "real" doctor?
That's all fine and dandy, but I think that those who call themselves Dr. in the clinical realm should go to med school.
However there IS a difference between an MD/DO and PA/NP, and sometimes it seems like NPs/PAs try to overstep the boundaries sometimes.
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I always thought PAs worked under their supervising physician's scope of practice. They do surveys every year on who is the most respected, it isn't the PA or NP. Probably because the general public isn't aware of the roles. The RN is usually on top of the list.Agree that non-MD/DO folks shouldn't represent themselves as a DR., but how does it seem to you that NP/PA overstep their boundaries...sometimes...?
You can make a stronger argument about NP's, but PA's do practice within the scope in which they are trained.... They are educated as medical practitioners. Aside from the physician, the PA is arguably the most respected healthcare practitioner and IS the next best thing to a physician!
I always thought PAs worked under their supervising physician's scope of practice. They do surveys every year on who is the most respected, it isn't the PA or NP. Probably because the general public isn't aware of the roles. The RN is usually on top of the list.
I don't disagree with you there. It just makes me uncomfortable that PAs in most states can prescribe all meds after only a year of internship.
If a PA is following their scope then I can't complain about that. I can have issues with the scope, though.
NOPE....a pa must be supervised by an md/do only.Are PA/NPs able to work with DPMs?