Why not just close the thread? It's deteriorated a lot, and is far from the original topic, which has actually been deleted by the OP.
I'm with jwk.
Why not just close the thread? It's deteriorated a lot, and is far from the original topic, which has actually been deleted by the OP.
Can you provide an example of a program that you consider an academic example? I am open to anything offered at your institution or others. Thanks
A physician has an incredible knowledge base on which he/she can build a vastly more thorough education in any medical discipline than a PA can. This is a fact. Want proof? There isn't a residency program in the world that will take a PA.
I agree, but just wait. I guarantee you emedpa will find some backwater residency program that accepted a PA once.
Countdown 5, 4, 3, 2, 1....
Why is it so bad for a new member to pull up an old post?
If they feel they have something to say and can do with without gaining an infraction, then more power to them.
"But here's where the similarity beteen the two ends: when there's a disagreement over how to handle a case. In such situations, the PA has to do what the doctor (or another doctor) says, period, no questions asked. The doctor can overrule a PA. Not vice-versa. That's what characterizes the "by law" expression.
That is the inescapable difference between PA's and doctors (i.e. MD's, DO's, DDS's, DPM's, etc.) The doctor has the final say. The doctor is the authority. And that's the whole enchilada right there.
Besides that, any work a PA performs requires a doctor's stamp of approval in some form. So by law, a PA does require a doctor's supervision--contrary to their repeated claims."
first, way to go dredging up a month old post to spout off nonsense.
you just don't get it do you. if a pa thinks a doc will disagree with them over a pt they simply don't present that pt. end of problem. pa sees pt, handles it their way. discharges pt. I know docs who work up every cough with chest pain as a p.e.- I never present pts to them with this complaint. if I have a question I call a consultant but never talk to them about it. they are completely outside the loop.
the pa supervisory laws are no where close to as stringent as you think. in my state for example a doc has to be present in clinic 4 hrs/week with no specific chart review requirement. they have to have a general idea of how things are going. that's it. the way this usually works for me is that I finish a solo overnight shift in the er and the doc comes in for day shift as I'm leaving and says" any problems last night?" and I either say "nope, c'ya" or "yeah, I would like to discuss this case". notice, it's all on me. if I think a pt needs to be admitted, I admit them. if I think a pt can go home, I send them home. if I want a specialty consult I get one. I work with a large group of docs( 40 ish) and over time I have learned who to ask about what conditions and who not to ask. if I think I will get a reasonable answer I ask the question. if I know they go over the top with every complaint of xyz because of 1 bad outcome they had with that complaint 20 yrs ago I don't talk to them. that's the beauty of emergency medicine. I have a whole list of consultants I can call anytime I want. if I know that the surgeon on until 5 is unreasonable I wait until 5 after 5 and talk to the next guy who I know will admit the obvious appy without a ct, etc
some states require a doc be in clinic whenever a pa is working. I would never work in one of these states( and they are becoming fewer every year...there are maybe 5 or so left now.....)
don't want to give you the satisfaction....and yes, there is one....and no, you can dredge it up yourself if you really care.....Cmon emedpa I know you want to accept my challenge. Whats wrong, you looked up every podunk residency in the state and couldnt find one who took a PA?
But let me ask you this: Can you prescribe medications without a doctor's DEA and/or license number on or associated with the prescription? No. You can't.....YES, I CAN...PA'S HAVE THEIR OWN DEA#S ....
Can you admit a patient into a hospital without a doctor's authorization? No. You can't. YES, I CAN...I ADMIT TO THE PA HOSPITALIST who works for the hospital
Can you start up your own PA practice and see patients without a doctor who is willing to allow you to work under his/her license? No. You can't.
I CAN HIRE A FEW RETIRED DOCS TO SIGN a few CHARTS WITHOUT EVER SEEING PTS. THERE ARE PLENTY OF DOC ****** LINING UP FOR THE PRIVILEDGE
Case closed.
YOU STILL DON'T GET IT. if a doc and I have a disagreement it doesn't matter. the pt is already gone and already treated my way. it's just academic.
why do you even care?
you are a dentist. you take care of teeth. you can't do anything else....ever hear is there a dentist in the house/on the plane/etc?...no one cares....go clean some dirty meth teeth
why do you think I have a docs name on my script pad?
it has my name and my dea# on it. period.
I like dentists, I have no problem with dentists. they perform an important service. I'm just wondering why you need to come into a pa forum to bash pa's when you know about as much about pa's as I do about dentists?(that would be very little).
do you have any idea what attending a pa program entails? is your wife a pa?
I won't pretend to know anything about dental training if you will stop insulting my profession, a profession it took me 9 yrs of post high school education to enter into.......I apologize about the meth teeth comment, it was out of line.
"Your "hospitalist PA" I can guarantee you, has an M.D. or D.O. who ultimately has to approve the admission. No P.A. can autonomously admit a patient any hospital in the united states without a physician's approval somewhere along the line. That's a fact"
were you aware that there are hospitals where the entire housestaff is pa residents? they admit pts and discuss them the next day on morning rounds, they cover all calls to the icu, etc
see norwalk hospital in ct for an example...no md residents at all....
lots of places are going to a model of using pa's as stand alone icu and critical care coverage with docs available at home as needed but not required......
THERE ARE PLENTY OF DOC ****** LINING UP FOR THE PRIVILEDGE [sic]
The bottom line is that 1. I have hospital privileges on my own, without a physician's involvment at any stage, 2. I can take a patient to the OR based on my own diagnosis and treatment plan.
I never commented on the content, only that it's not illegal for someone to bring up an old thread. This is not an exclusive forum for PAs - the clinician title refers to the content, not segregation of posters.
nope, just folks like you and those who see us as means to an end.This is what EMEDPA thinks of physicians. Case closed.
Don't feed the trolls. This is an alt of McGyver.
David Carpenter, PA-C
nope, just folks like you and those who see us as means to an end.
no pa/md debate would be complete without anonymous and macgyver, co-trolls in all things anti-midlevel
did you guys even catch the fact that this area has been unmoderated forever
did you guys even catch the fact that this area has been unmoderated forever.....