NROTC/Mil Med Question

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

midn

Full Member
15+ Year Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2005
Messages
1,055
Reaction score
3
Well it's my fourth semester of NROTC and after going a week with only twenty five hours of sleep, I have decided that I do not want to go by this commissioning route. I was able to tolerate the work of ROTC under the assumption that I could handle my schooling at the same time, but now that I have to prepare for the MCAT in addition to 16 hours of school on top of my ROTC collateral duties, it has become physically impossible. I won't burden you anymore with my anger against the student officers, but suffice to say is that I am unhappy.

Now, I am in a different circumstance than most people who would like to exit their contracts as mine has a specific clause for leaving it. Unlike HPSP, I am not as tightly bound to my ROTC contract. I have to repay my tuition and book stipend should I choose to leave BUT there is a slim possibility that I may be ordered to active enlisted duty immediately or upon graduation. I was wondering if anyone had any experiences in their ROTC units for people exiting their contracts after incurring obligation and what happened to them.

Is it possible that I could eliminate the possibility of active enlisted service by giving a written intention of commissioning eventually? What I want to do is to drop the ROTC scholarship and go to medical school on the FAP program so I can enter the Navy after residency as opposed to doing a GMO tour. This way, I will have a 4 year obligation after residency (or more depending on my specialty) as opposed to 8+ years.

I want to emphasize that I am not trying to duck out of my obligation, but rather wish to go by a different path before it is too late. ROTC is for unrestricted line officers and has little benefit for people intending to join a restricted line community.

Lastly, ROTC has monopolized my time for the past year and a half so I have little to no extracurricular outside of ROTC. If I were to drop ROTC, would medical schools still acknowledge how much time I did put into ROTC so as to justify my lack of other activities? Also, how would medical schools view my choice? I'm 100% sure I can justify it, but I do not want to eliminate my chances of an interview to a medical school before I have a chance to explain. I am pretty sure I can still get one of the officers to write me a letter of recommendation even if I do quit.

Thanks in advance for any constructive replies.

Members don't see this ad.
 
Well it's my fourth semester of NROTC and after going a week with only twenty five hours of sleep, I have decided that I do not want to go by this commissioning route. I was able to tolerate the work of ROTC under the assumption that I could handle my schooling at the same time, but now that I have to prepare for the MCAT in addition to 16 hours of school on top of my ROTC collateral duties, it has become physically impossible. I won't burden you anymore with my anger against the student officers, but suffice to say is that I am unhappy.

Now, I am in a different circumstance than most people who would like to exit their contracts as mine has a specific clause for leaving it. Unlike HPSP, I am not as tightly bound to my ROTC contract. I have to repay my tuition and book stipend should I choose to leave BUT there is a slim possibility that I may be ordered to active enlisted duty immediately or upon graduation. I was wondering if anyone had any experiences in their ROTC units for people exiting their contracts after incurring obligation and what happened to them.

Is it possible that I could eliminate the possibility of active enlisted service by giving a written intention of commissioning eventually? What I want to do is to drop the ROTC scholarship and go to medical school on the FAP program so I can enter the Navy after residency as opposed to doing a GMO tour. This way, I will have a 4 year obligation after residency (or more depending on my specialty) as opposed to 8+ years.

I want to emphasize that I am not trying to duck out of my obligation, but rather wish to go by a different path before it is too late. ROTC is for unrestricted line officers and has little benefit for people intending to join a restricted line community.

Lastly, ROTC has monopolized my time for the past year and a half so I have little to no extracurricular outside of ROTC. If I were to drop ROTC, would medical schools still acknowledge how much time I did put into ROTC so as to justify my lack of other activities? Also, how would medical schools view my choice? I'm 100% sure I can justify it, but I do not want to eliminate my chances of an interview to a medical school before I have a chance to explain. I am pretty sure I can still get one of the officers to write me a letter of recommendation even if I do quit.

Thanks in advance for any constructive replies.

I thought you could get out of ROTC after two years without any obligation. That is how it works at the academy.
 
I thought you could get out of ROTC after two years without any obligation. That is how it works at the academy.

For ROTC it is one year.

Anyways, I spoke to my adviser and he seems to be ready to help me because I've already proven myself to the unit. He's told me to write a proposal up to the Captain (our CO) explaining the situation. Ultimately it is the SECNAV's call as to what my fate will be (recoupment or enlisted active duty service), but he has quite a bit of say in his recommendation. Also, my adviser states that it may be possible for my CO to call NETC and see what they would be leaning towards to do with me before he files the paper work. After he files the paper work for disenrollment, the decision is permanent and it is within the hands of the SECNAV to decide my fate and I am legally required to follow his orders. This is why it is vital that I make a good proposal to the CAPT so he maybe more inclined to help pull some strings for me.

This is where I require the board's help. I need some help writing this formal proposal and need to put as much information as I can gather into it. First of all, I want to indicate that I fully intend to do my time in the Navy even if not contracted. The problem with this is that the Navy knows they would be getting me for 8 years if I went the ROTC->HPSP route. Of course, once the paperwork for disenrollment is filed, I highly doubt they will force me to stay within ROTC. They can, though, opt to send me to active enlisted service, so I must make the argument that it is not within the Navy's best interests since it delays me from medical school and becoming a Navy doctor. Perhaps I can rephrase it financially to make it seem like the Navy will be saving money for the years that it will not be paying for my schooling to downplay the fact that I will only have a four year commitment?

Another disadvantage for the Navy is that I won't be obliged to do the GMO tour if I go the FAP route. The Navy is big on GMOs so this maybe the greatest weakness of my case. It will take four years longer (depending on residency) for me to enter the Navy through the FAP route. I would like to state that entering as a fully board-certified physician is more beneficial to the Navy because of my greater level of competency. Of course, I do not know much about what full board-certification means so if anyone can expound on this so that it sounds beneficial to the Navy that would greatly help.

Lastly, the biggest possible disadvantage to the Navy is that there is no guarantee of me returning to the Navy after I complete medical school. I fully intend to, but the Navy and I know that circumstances can change. I would be more than willing to sign a binding agreement to do FAP upon entry into a residency, but no such thing exists that I know of.

Basically I need a way to sugar coat this proposal both financially and professionally (to show that a fully certified physician is much better for the Navy in the long run).

Also, I've already read the FAP thread, but is there a specific website containing explicit information with payback and everything? I need to include this in my proposal.

Please, please help me in writing this as it will determine the next 4 years of my life. Anything is appreciated. I know you all are busy, but I need to have this done this weekend since every day that I wait is more work that will be piled upon me from my student chain of command.

Thanks.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
I went ahead and wrote out a letter. Most my facts are based on things I read on this board, the official FAP website, and Googling. The money estimates are very crude. Please tell me what I can do improve the letter.

CAPT [],

My original intent before entering NROTC was to become a Navy medical doctor. Although I knew the program is largely meant for line officers, I thought the training I received would still be applicable to the medical career I wished to pursue. Since then, I have researched the unique pathway NROTC midshipmen must take before realizing his or her goal in medicine. After considering the professional opinions of a other military doctors, I believe it is within the Navy and my own best interests to drop the NROTC program without being forced into active enlisted service. Rather, I wish to repay, in full, the amount I am required so I may immediately go to medical school upon graduation from the University of [].

In order for a midshipman to pursue a medical career in the Navy, he or she must pursue a stringent pathway. First, a request must be filed to CNET in a formal package including letters of recommendation, a completed AMCAS application (general medical school application), along with MCAT scores (general medical school admissions test) by June 29th. A board reviews these applications and determines 25 or so midshipmen out of every NROTC unit in the country to be put on an educational delay. These select midshipmen are then required to apply for the Armed Forces Health Profession Scholarship Program which covers all tuition and books including a rough stipend of $1300 per month. Upon graduation from medical school the Navy allows the now commissioned officer to complete a one year internship. After this year, rather than having the officer go straight into residency, he or she is almost always placed into a General Medical Officer tour (Navy specific). In order to match for a residency in the Navy, one must accrue certain points to become competitive that are strongly awarded more for time in service over academic merit. Therefore, an officer might have to complete multiple GMO tours in order to get into a highly competitive medical residency effectively delaying him or her 4-6 years post internship.

This brings me to my first contention: the NROTC/HPSP pathway has a nearly guaranteed interruption for residency. Despite what an HPSP recruiter may say about having a choice in residency, the Navy has very limited residency slots and thus must defer a great volume highly qualified doctors to GMO tours in order to allow those that have done GMO tours already to finally complete a residency. In most states, residency is required for a full medical licensure for unrestricted medical practice. Not only does delaying residency preclude a person from full licensure, it is detrimental to a physician’s skills.

Anyone can attest to the difficulty of returning to a learning environment after being in a job that requires pure application on a specific subject. This is especially true for doctors who, after returning from a GMO done before their residency, must relearn many subjects long forgotten due to the rapid decay of knowledge if one does not rigorously maintain it. Some GMOs have to repeat their internship year because they have forgotten certain subjects because of the relatively narrow scope of practice in a GMO tour. This is counterproductive and delays the Navy from having a greater amount of specialized doctors. Residencies greatly improve upon clinical skill by assisting doctors to focus their immense academic knowledge from medical school into practical application to better treat patients. A doctor who has completed a residency is far more skilled that a doctor who has only completed one year of internship. Pursuing the ROTC/HPSP path nearly always requires a GMO tour which is counterproductive for the doctor and the Navy by delaying residency and thus limiting the amount of specialized doctors.

A better route for becoming a Navy doctor does exist. The Navy Financial Assistance Program (FAP) guarantees completion of residency before entering into active service. One applies for the FAP program upon the completion of medical school and the beginning of a residency program of his or her choice. The Navy still gives priority to specialties it requires so that it may fulfill its own needs. The FAP program requires a base commitment of two years of active duty plus an additional year for each year of residency (for example: a three year residency will incur a two year commitment for the first year and a one year commitment for every year after that coming to a total of four years). After being accepted into FAP, the doctor is placed on inactive ready reserve. The payment of FAP is as follows: each year of residency, one receives a check for $27,841 before taxes and a stipend of $1,319 per month. This money will go towards repaying medical school tuition, which, for the average medical student, is about $150,000. Although FAP does not give enough money to fully repay tuition, the advantage of completing a residency is far more important to a doctor (a good one at least) than money.

The advantages to a doctor are clear with the ability to finish residency and have some additional money during residency which is infamous for underpayment. The Navy benefits from FAP in that it receives a fully-board certified and specialized physician for at least four years (if starting FAP immediately as residency starts). Those that pursue the HPSP route (without ROTC) may spend all their years as a GMO after repeated failures of getting into a military residency. This causes the Navy to become bereft of specialized doctors and leads to under manning of Navy medical facilities.

Through FAP, the Navy will actually pay less for a more qualified doctor. Through the ROTC/HPSP route, the Navy will pay approximately $40,000 for undergraduate tuition and books, $150,000 for medical school tuition, books and lab equipment, and about $65,000 in monthly stipends throughout medical school. For FAP (in a four year residency), the total cost comes to about $180,000 as opposed to the $250,000 for the ROTC/HPSP pathway. The difference is the commitment time as a ROTC/HPSP graduate must do 8 years active duty while an FAP graduate will only do 4. During those 8 years some of those years maybe used for the inevitable GMO tours prior to residency that will force the Navy to pay for unspecialized doctors. Depending on whether or not the doctor is fortunate enough to match into the residency he or she desires, four or more years maybe spent in a GMO which not only delays the Navy from getting a fully-licensed doctor, but paying a full salary for a partially-licensed physician (minus the bonuses for having a full license which, at the primary care level are approximately an additional $20,000/year).

If the Navy decides to force me into AES, it will delay my entry into medical school and I will opt not to pursue a Navy medical career. AES will force me to abandon academia for at least two years and do unrelated tasks to my desired career choice. Thus, if I am ordered to AES, the Navy loses a potential doctor to fill their diminishing medical corps.

If there is any possibility of ensuring that I will not be forced into AES before filing the irreversible paperwork, I would greatly appreciate it. In conclusion, if you do not wish to endorse my disenrollment from NROTC without AES, I believe the Navy will suffer a potential loss of a specialized doctor during a time when doctors are required immensely.


Very Respectfully,
MIDN []
 
Although nobody has been replying to this thread, I just wanted to tell you all that I have been dropped from the ROTC program with well wishes from my officers. They were really supportive and expressed that it was no problem that I wished to pursue another commissioning path.

Unfortunately, I have to wait 3 months+ to see if the Navy wants to screw me with AES.

Thanks for all the information on this board. It was really helpful in my interview with my CO.
 
Top