Nurse Practitioners soon to take primary care physician role....

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
No, ironic because when someone has an argument against NPs, you suddenly become a strict scientist and demand objective proof, but I literally cannot count the number of times you've "proven" NP worth on these boards with ridiculous anecdotal stories, n=1 scenarios, personal beliefs, and baseless opinions.

I'm certainly not a strict scientist and I've posted the findings of Dr. John Ioannidis and his team several times. What I'm doing is using your own stance, a strict religious stand with science, against you. I consider anecdotal stories to be very valuable because they are the patient's stories. The patient and their story is the only thing that matters.

Members don't see this ad.
 
I think we could agree that there are an abundance of physicians who have started up clinics that are nothing more than narcotic resupply depots? If that's the case, I'm not sure how letting a much less educated provider give it a go will help the situation? :scared:

Well I doubt it's NP's starting up all these clinics. I've actually not had a single physician call me concerned about the potential med interactions of the meds they are prescribing with the ones I'm prescribing. I've had NP's actually call and discuss treatment. Must be that nursing thing....
 
I'm certainly not a strict scientist and I've posted the findings of Dr. John Ioannidis and his team several times. What I'm doing is using your own stance, a strict religious stand with science, against you. I consider anecdotal stories to be very valuable because they are the patient's stories. The patient and their story is the only thing that matters.

Hahaha, forget it ... editing my original reply. Any logical person can study the situation and forge their own opinion. No reason for me to lower myself and sling mud.
 
Last edited:
Members don't see this ad :)
Well I doubt it's NP's starting up all these clinics. I've actually not had a single physician call me concerned about the potential med interactions of the meds they are prescribing with the ones I'm prescribing. I've had NP's actually call and discuss treatment. Must be that nursing thing....

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
 
Does anyone know where or if there is data on pt outcomes comparing NPs and FM docs? I actually just got into a big argument with a couple friends. I have chosen to go into FM because I miss the rural midwest and I discussed that I don't like this idea that someday midlevel providers will take over primary care....and my friends' response was that they believed that NPs could take care of 95% of outpatients and just refer the other 5% to specialists and that we don't really need primary care doctors. I got so angry and didn't have facts to back up my beliefs. Does anyone have any ideas or know where I can find the data I am looking for?
 
Does anyone know where or if there is data on pt outcomes comparing NPs and FM docs? I actually just got into a big argument with a couple friends. I have chosen to go into FM because I miss the rural midwest and I discussed that I don't like this idea that someday midlevel providers will take over primary care....and my friends' response was that they believed that NPs could take care of 95% of outpatients and just refer the other 5% to specialists and that we don't really need primary care doctors. I got so angry and didn't have facts to back up my beliefs. Does anyone have any ideas or know where I can find the data I am looking for?

Why are you letting yourself get angry? Do what makes you happy. There's enough patients to go around.
 
Coming from a research background, I have seen innumerable contradictory studies put out by those with a vested interest or even just researchers desperate for publications to keep the research gravy train flowing. I came to the conclusion a long time ago that there is no substitute for common sense. Even core measures used to judge hospitals on their care often miss the boat on the reality of making an educated medical decision on what makes sense for a particular patient. I would argue that we don't need a study to show that the moon isn't made of green cheese and we don't need a study demonstrating that much less educated providers coming from a pool of less talented and academically inclined people make poor doctors.
 
Last edited:
Coming from a research background, I have seen innumerable contradictory studies put out by those with a vested interest or even just researchers desperate for publications to keep the research gravy train flowing. I came to the conclusion a long time ago that there is no substitute for common sense. Even core measures used to judge hospitals on their care often miss the boat on the reality of making an educated medical decision on what makes sense for a particular patient. I would argue that we don't need a study to show that the moon isn't made of green cheese and we don't need a study demonstrating that much less educated providers coming from a pool of less talented and academically inclined people make poor doctors.

Yet much of the medical and nursing profession teaches and makes decision based on these flawed studies.

And we don't need a study to show that less academically inclined people with their heads out of the clouds can't be even more talented in connecting with people versus those who cling defensively to modernism, their faith in science, and their technical skill.

"I felt the difference. Your assistance is appreciated beyond words. I raise my glass to FREEDOM....CHEERS.

My life is so good right now and there is no way I would be here without you stepping in to help in Florida. You're a good man. May God give all the goodness back 1000 fold...God Bless you and your family, always. If I can ever be of assistance to you or your family.....I'm there." - Unnamed patient.

You'll be on your own for awhile as my wife is coming in from Asia. Try to be factual. :D
 
And we don't need a study to show that less academically inclined people with their heads out of the clouds can't be even more talented in connecting with people versus those who cling defensively to modernism, their faith in science, and their technical skill.

Since when did nurses own the domain of "connecting with people"? They only "connect with people" right now because they spend more time with fewer patients. If they spend the same amount of time as a primary care physician with patients and demand the same salaries, let's see their "connecting with people" skills in action. There are awkward, rude, mean, arrogant people in every profession. If anything, the lower selectivity to get into nursing school would only ensure a larger share of these people in nursing.

"Heads [in] clouds"?? I swear nurses are indoctrinated to hate physicians from the first day of nursing school, while medical schools bend over backwards to emphasize teamwork and respect. This nursing antagonism against physicians is bordering pathological and has nothing to do with patient advocacy that the nursing unions hide behind.
 
This is an old, tired thread....I think a comment from BlueDog summed it up --- if you think you can be replaced by a mid-level, maybe you should be.....or something to that effect.
 
Going by pure demand and supply rule , it might be a bad news for some doctors :xf: but to think nurses can become threat to PCPs will be an over extension. Nurses can address some medical question which could have been better handled by a doctor but anyway it will increase accessibility to basic health services and should be welcomed by the medical community with proper guidelines and procedure.:thumbup:
 
So I never respond to these posts, but I thought for once I would. I have been reading all about the "midlevel TAKEOVER" posts in various areas of medicine over the years. As a med student it made me nervous, and I spent a lot of wasted time worrying about the future and wondering if I was wrong to go into medicine given the huge debt load and time committment.

I am second year resident in family medicine and I am very happy. As imagine most jobs are, some days I love what i do, some days i despise it, most of the time my feelings are somewhat in between the two. Being on this forum does instill a sense of urgency and concern for the future of family medicine, but I have to say that since I have been out in the real world I haven't noticed this concern in daily practice. As a matter of fact, I have already had recruiters just about knocking down my door to recruit me. All of my fellow graduating residents have had generous sign on bonuses of some sort no matter where they have practiced. Some of them have had very generous loan repayment packages and incomes mostly depending on the area and type of practice.

Being a primary care doc is HARD work, but also very rewarding and fun. I have the opportunity, in my area atleast, to decide for the most part what practice I want. Do I want rural vs. urban/ suburban? Do I want mostly outpatient, mostly inpatient or both. Do I want to do obstetrics? Do I want to have areas of focus within primary care such as derm, geriatrics, etc. What kind of call schedule do I want (some of the bigger clinics have call 1 in 40 for example)? I could chose to be part time. The sky is the limit! I have yet to encounter the NP/ PA thing interfering with my options. Primary care in HUGE demand right now whether you're a doc or a midlevel or even ancillary staff.

WHO KNOWS what will happen with the future of medicine. Whether we start finding our radiology or surgical jobs go overseas because it's cheaper? Whether Anesthesiologists become a thing of the past as Nurse anesthesiologist take over? So far I don't know if any of these "fears" have any evidence in reality. Maybe, but it sure doesn't seem like any of our incomes have taken hit....

Again, Primary care is HARD work and we get paid the least compared to our specialist colleagues. We do have a lots of paperwork and hoops, etc. We deal with chronic disease management in challenging patients, and coordinate care in a difficult healthcare system. There are indeed changes to the way we practice primary care as the patient centered medical home becomes a popular concept and we begin to approach team based care. All of this has its upsides and downsides and challenges and changes with implementation. Despite all of the challenges, I do enjoy what I do because I enjoy practicing family medicine. I enjoy using my brain!! Anyone who think's it's cook book medicine, and/or inferior to other specialties is completely ignorant. I think it's among the most difficult of the medical specialties, and I have heard many specialist say the same thing....

Although there's plenty of change proposed, I'm not worried about the future of family medicine in the forseeable future. But, I'm sure some of you have horror stories to contradict me.... I really don't care, actually...

Nothing in life is guarenteed, but I believe if you work hard you'll generally come out just fine.

Do in your heart what you want to do. :)
 
I've seen a lot of people complain on here (SDN) about internships and rotations such as IM and ER. I'm just curious if a lot of that type of work that most don't like is what FM and IM consist of?

To me it seems like the work that is done during those rotations would be similar to what is expected of the FM and IM specialties. Also, if they are similar then I wonder why other specialties bash FM when they chose a specialty that doesn't do that stuff on a daily basis?

Why bash someone for doing what they don't want to do? I normally read others saying it's hard to keep up with or demanding.

Just curious
 
Top