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NY Times article on vet med profession

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justavet

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High Debt and Falling Demand Trap New Veterinarians

An article written by David Segal, an established columnist for the Times. This is the journalist who did the series of articles publicizing the law profession's crisis with high unemployment and high debt.
 

wildcatj

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Can you try posting the link again? It's not working.
 

justavet

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There's a link to it in the first line on this page of my site.
You will need to enter a valid email.
Again, if this violates some sort of policy, I'll take it down asap.
 

NStarz

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After reading this article, I feel so lucky so have come into some money recently (so much so that I won't have to take out loans after this year). I don't know what I would have done otherwise...this is going to push more vets into specializing, which will saturate that market. Ughhh. (I want to specialize after graduating...probably ER/CC at this point.)
 

cs5910

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Pretty scary to read.....But we all knew this I guess!
 

psilovethomas

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After reading this article, I feel so lucky so have come into some money recently (so much so that I won't have to take out loans after this year). I don't know what I would have done otherwise...this is going to push more vets into specializing, which will saturate that market. Ughhh. (I want to specialize after graduating...probably ER/CC at this point.)

Agreed. I would not have gone OOS if my parents were not paying for it. I feel so bad for my classmates and often wonder why....something has to happen. This isn't sustainable. The government keeps coming out with new repayment programs but I really don't think that is the solution.
 

WannaBeVet

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Very scary article, considering I'm looking at Ross and SGU as my only options. But it is something I am very aware of and I know I wouldn't be happy doing anything else.

Interesting little point, they mention in the article that Ross does not inform students of the debt that will come with the degree? It's not their job to inform us because it's our responsibility and my interview actually specifically asked me if I was aware of the disparity that existed between the average national income and the accrued student debt.

Anyways, a good read for sure!
 

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Scary thought... But a lot of people say that "this is the only job that would make me happy"

I wonder if the people taking out 300K in debt would say the same thing 30+ years from now when they are still in a ton of debt and have not been able to save enough for their own retirement or help their children out with college etc.

Never really being out of debt and not being financially stable takes a toll. A lot of people say money doesn't = happiness but I feel like being financially stable is a factor in happiness.

On that note, I am so glad I will be in a reasonable amount of debt! I don't know if I would have chosen vet med if I had to go to Ross.
 

psilovethomas

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Interesting little point, they mention in the article that Ross does not inform students of the debt that will come with the degree? It's not their job to inform us because it's our responsibility and my interview actually specifically asked me if I was aware of the disparity that existed between the average national income and the accrued student debt.

Hah- does that mean that schools can keep jacking up prices and its our responsibility to stop them? Of course for-profit institutions like Ross are going to say that, they want you to attend;). Of course we should know what we are getting into with vet med, but that doesn't mean the schools can lay it out for us- tuition (+/- projected increases), living expenses, fees, books and supplies, etc, especially since it varies widely from school to school. I think it is important for schools to tell prospective students what the average debt is so students can decide what school is best for them, and to figure out best how to repay and live after graduation. Schools should offer business classes in their curriculum to prepare us for loan repayment and the current job market.
Nothing worse than seeing the sticker shock AFTER graduation.
 

jmo1012

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Very scary article, considering I'm looking at Ross and SGU as my only options.

As someone currently at SGU, I am always preaching that you DONT have to use the whole loan allotment each year. I am proof!! I have not taken out the full amount either year, and I do just fine. If you budget and control your spending, you don't have to have all the loan money. You have to have what covers tuition, housing, travel, and food, but you dont need the excess that covers eating out all the time and excessive partying.

SGU is CHEAPER than Ross. Not only is out tuition cheaper, but you are paying for FEWER semesters. We have 6 pre-clinical and a 4th year like the US does. Ross has 7 pre-clinical and a 4th year.

I get it, these are expensive schools, but I get a little bit tired of people pointing them out as examples all the time. What about Western University?! Every single student that attends there pays disgusting amounts of money and they graduate with a US degree. It is cheaper for me to be here than it is for me to be OOS at many schools.

okay okay i'll get off my soap box now.
 

jmo1012

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Hah- does that mean that schools can keep jacking up prices and its our responsibility to stop them? Of course for-profit institutions like Ross are going to say that, they want you to attend;). Of course we should know what we are getting into with vet med, but that doesn't mean the schools can lay it out for us- tuition (+/- projected increases), living expenses, fees, books and supplies, etc, especially since it varies widely from school to school. I think it is important for schools to tell prospective students what the average debt is so students can decide what school is best for them, and to figure out best how to repay and live after graduation. Schools should offer business classes in their curriculum to prepare us for loan repayment and the current job market.
Nothing worse than seeing the sticker shock AFTER graduation.

last time i checked, state schools were jacking up tuition and parading about the wonderful news that they will now be accepting more OOS students...
 
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What a scary article! I've read stuff like this before and I always hate it, but I know I'm destined for huge debt if I make it into vet school. I'm already doing loans and getting the Pell Grant just for undergrad :(

I'm really hoping to get accepted in-state. I've thought about the US Army Veterinary Corps too, but that's competitive and not necessarily a future I want. What do most vets do about their debt? I've thought about asking the vet I volunteer for, but I feel like that's pretty personal.
 

psilovethomas

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last time i checked, state schools were jacking up tuition and parading about the wonderful news that they will now be accepting more OOS students...

Yeah, but I know a lot of schools have financial aid presentations for students at welcome days, posted on their website, etc. As opposed to Ross who has nothing?
State schools have no choice but to increase tuition because of funding cuts from the government and try to offset that by accepting more OOS students..
MSU barely gets funding from the state and that is why our OOS tuition is very high. It costs about $60,000 a year to train a veterinarian in MI. Lack of funding from the state unfortunately means the burden has to be transferred to the students. However, we have a lot of donors that have decreased that cost a little to put OOS tuition at $52,000. MSU does not profit from student tuition as would Ross or St. George's. Sure, MSU uses some of it to by fancy new equipment, but I think it's great to know that I can learn to use an MRI if I really wanted to (and I do..)

On a different note, I have actually talked to MSU's financial analyst who has a lot of good ideas. One being creating regional programs for fields such as equine- considering only a handful of people from MSU go on to do equine predominant. Instead of every school having a large equine facility like MSU does, there could be a regional school, say at OSU, that OSU, MSU, and Purdue students use during their clinical phase to become equine practitioners. This could cut a lot of costs and potentially lower tuition. This wouldn't mean completely cutting equine medicine from MSU, just not housing the giant performance and ER center that is devoted to equine specifically.
 
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Must Love Dogs

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As someone currently at SGU, I am always preaching that you DONT have to use the whole loan allotment each year. I am proof!! I have not taken out the full amount either year, and I do just fine. If you budget and control your spending, you don't have to have all the loan money. You have to have what covers tuition, housing, travel, and food, but you dont need the excess that covers eating out all the time and excessive partying.


I get it, these are expensive schools, but I get a little bit tired of people pointing them out as examples all the time. What about Western University?! Every single student that attends there pays disgusting amounts of money and they graduate with a US degree. It is cheaper for me to be here than it is for me to be OOS at many schools.

okay okay i'll get off my soap box now.

AMEN!!

I am so glad that someone mentioned this! Looking at the OOS tuition for some schools, a student may not be much (if any) better off debt/money-wise graduating from some stateside schools than overseas. A big part of it is how a student handles his/her own money! Yes, you will come out of school with debt, but they don't force you to take out ALL of the loan money (some of which you probably won't need).
 

felinelvr44

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What a sobering read.

It's very frustrating to read something like this as a member of the c/o 2017. What is the answer? Cut class sizes and tuition? I don't see that happening any time soon. And if I said, "you know what? I'm not going to vet school because the debt is too high and job market is too poor," there would be 100 people ready to fill my spot. So I will go to my IS school (thank god), live as cheaply as possible, and take advantage of IBR when I graduate. I estimate that I'll be making roughly the same salary when I graduate that I do now (in a non vet-med field) but that I might actually want to go to work every day. For someone who has been stuck in a field/job they hate for the past five years, that is absolutely worth it.
 

WhtsThFrequency

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Never really being out of debt and not being financially stable takes a toll. A lot of people say money doesn't = happiness but I feel like being financially stable is a factor in happiness.

Agreed, I HATE it when people say that. My response is that people who say this so blithely have never had to choose between food and gas. I have.

I know I'm never going to be rich, but money DOES contribute a huge deal to happiness. Money, for example, is one of the biggest things (if not the biggest thing) that couples argue about. It is a huge factor in quality of life, especially in this economy.

Now, in a philosophical sense yes, money does not equate to happiness. And we don't need huge gobs of it - quality of life/happiness does not significantly increase after about 75k/yr (assuming no debt, however: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,2019628,00.html).

But in the real world, people who say that money should be no object and you should do what you want drive me nuts.
 
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kernel

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What a sobering read.

It's very frustrating to read something like this as a member of the c/o 2017. What is the answer? Cut class sizes and tuition? I don't see that happening any time soon. And if I said, "you know what? I'm not going to vet school because the debt is too high and job market is too poor," there would be 100 people ready to fill my spot. So I will go to my IS school (thank god), live as cheaply as possible, and take advantage of IBR when I graduate. I estimate that I'll be making roughly the same salary when I graduate that I do now (in a non vet-med field) but that I might actually want to go to work every day. For someone who has been stuck in a field/job they hate for the past five years, that is absolutely worth it.

I agree wholeheartedly
 

jmo1012

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Yeah, but I know a lot of schools have financial aid presentations for students at welcome days, posted on their website, etc. As opposed to Ross who has nothing?
State schools have no choice but to increase tuition because of funding cuts from the government and try to offset that by accepting more OOS students..
MSU barely gets funding from the state and that is why our OOS tuition is very high. It costs about $60,000 a year to train a veterinarian in MI. Lack of funding from the state unfortunately means the burden has to be transferred to the students. However, we have a lot of donors that have decreased that cost a little to put OOS tuition at $52,000. MSU does not profit from student tuition as would Ross or St. George's. Sure, MSU uses some of it to by fancy new equipment, but I think it's great to know that I can learn to use an MRI if I really wanted to (and I do..)

oh, perhaps SGU is different with regards to financial aid from Ross then because we definitely have access to lots of financial aid materials, from counselors assigned to us on day one in NY, to an on campus office and free phone service if you want to talk to your NY counselor, and financial aid presentations each semester.

at the end of the day, we've dug ourselves an ugly hole. for-profit or not, schools are shelling out money for research, fancy equipment, and state-of-the-art facilities. we could say well cut back the spending, stop spending shocking amounts of money on frivolous updates, but the AVMA is requiring this stuff for accreditation status to remain. its a vicious, endless circle :-/
 

felinelvr44

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Agreed, I HATE it when people say that. My response is that people who say this so blithely have never had to choose between food and gas. I have.

I know I'm never going to be rich, but money DOES contribute a huge deal to happiness. Money, for example, is one of the biggest things (if not the biggest thing) that couples argue about. It is a huge factor in quality of life, especially in this economy.

Now, in a philosophical sense yes, money does not equate to happiness. And we don't need huge gobs of it - quality of life/happiness does not significantly increase after about 75k/yr (assuming no debt, however: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,2019628,00.html).

But in the real world, people who say that money should be no object and you should do what you want drive me nuts.

I agree that money can be a huge stressor in life and in relationships. I have experienced this personally and it's not super fun. That being said, with IBR, we should be able to afford a small apartment, inexpensive car, and groceries once we graduate (if we can find jos). That's all I'm looking for. I don't need a 4-bedroom McMansion in the 'burbs and I don't plan on having children. I think my outlook is practical given the reality of the job market/debt averages but maybe I'm kidding myself?
 

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I'm glad all of this has been coming up in conversation.

For the past 2 months since I found out I was accepted into the University of Edinburgh, I have been wrestling with the decision to attend (I was not accepted into my IS - Cornell). While the cost is on par with almost every OOS school, I worry how the debt might cripple me from having kids, trying to balance work, family and life, the ability to have savings, buy a home and try to pay that and loans off simultaneously, etc....

I keep wondering if I should get a Ph. D in something like Animal Behavior and Neuroscience like a program they have at Emory. With a Ph. D I would likely get an assistanceship that would cover tuition and a living stipend of usually about $25,000/ yr (double what i make now).

But the job market is flooded with starving Ph. D's as well, I would be contact teaching but in ten years after I have done a Ph. D and post-dic, finding a job as a professor will probably be doubly hard as it is now - and if not a professor - what other jobs would be afforded to me?

With moving to Scotland and going to vet school - I have to worry about massive amounts of debt, where my parents can't help me at all and I have to take the full burden and no savings due to undergrad. With that, its a world-renowned university with top-tier professors. Who what personal growth and opportunities moving to Europe would bring? I would get to start a new life away from drama here, work and learn about medicine and animals all day, and live in a vibrant dynamic environment with weather more mild than Buffalo, NY. It's be slightly easier to get a job but again, the debt worries me that I would end up hating it due to bitterness of having the long-continued burden of debt.

It feels like a no-win situation in ether pathway. I want the education and life-changing ability Edinburgh would bring but not the debt, and I want the lack of debt of a Ph. D but the ability to work with animals and have a job where I can support a family...

How do I choose?

(sorry for rant, just been weighing alot and like to hear how you all think about these things since we are all in similar boats)
 

bbeventer

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This makes me so thankful that I have very little UG debt, and have a scholarship covering my CVM tuition. 300k of debt, I could not even imagine. I wonder what our profession will look like in 15 years.
 
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Right when I had worked through my anxiety about my future...
 

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So glad I busted my butt not to have much undergrad debt and decided to go to my IS instead of OOS. I calculated that I have saved myself over $100k. I just wish I was as fortunate as some people I know who have parents paying for their educations. My folks are barely getting by as it is.
 

david594

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Pretty scary to read.....But we all knew this I guess!

Not really. The doom and gloom mostly started after my class started vet school.
 

lailanni

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Not really. The doom and gloom mostly started after my class started vet school.

When I interviewed at my IS school (class of '12) they asked me what the biggest challenge facing vet med was. I said the rising cost of education and the disparity with veterinary salaries.

My interview panel said I was the first person to bring this up. (I was not early in the interview schedule either).

A lot of people go in with rose colored glasses. Hopefully fewer now than when I started.
 

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When I interviewed at my IS school (class of '12) they asked me what the biggest challenge facing vet med was. I said the rising cost of education and the disparity with veterinary salaries.

My interview panel said I was the first person to bring this up. (I was not early in the interview schedule either).

A lot of people go in with rose colored glasses. Hopefully fewer now than when I started.

I am still amazed by the amount of my classmates who were not really aware of the cost situation when we entered - I guess being on SDN where we beat that dead horse pretty often made me think that it was something most people applying to vet school understood. A lot of people were still really shocked when they did a loan simulator during our business class.

Thankfully NCSU is very affordable, comparably, but I really desperately hope the people going to Penn or Western or some of the more expensive schools understand what they're getting in to...
 

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MonkeyResrcher:
I am in the same boat deciding what to do with my future and if that includes vet medicine. I did not get into my IS, but I got into an expensive OOS option. I think I would love the profession but I don't know if it is worth hundreds of thousands of dollars before I explore other options. I am hoping to get into Teach for America.

My question is if I got into a US vet school and turn it down to do something else (primarily for fear of crippling debt) if I applied again at some point if I decided vet medicine was really all I wanted (and this times with hope of getting in IS), would my chances be hurt because I had previously turned down an acceptance to veterinary school?
 

Emiloo4

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It's extra depressing when you live with a PhD student with a fellowship, who not only doesn't pay tuition, but gets paid to go to school :poke:
 
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When I interviewed at my IS school (class of '12) they asked me what the biggest challenge facing vet med was. I said the rising cost of education and the disparity with veterinary salaries.

My interview panel said I was the first person to bring this up. (I was not early in the interview schedule either).

A lot of people go in with rose colored glasses. Hopefully fewer now than when I started.

I don't think the income to debt ratio is the doom and gloom he's talking about... That's something I think a lot of people have always known, but given that it seemed like there was good job security of moderate income, it wasn't as worrisome. You might be forever lower middle class, but it seemed like you could make it. Owning a clinic or specializing would bring more money. There were also shortages, so worst comes the worst you could go to an underserved area and your life could be stable. You might just not be able to practice in your ideal location. So it seemed like life was livable for most vets. Even when the economy first tanked in 2008, vet med was supposed to be 'recession proof'

It wasn't until 2009-2010 that conflicting info about not enough jobs, saturation of even some specialties, clinic owners struggling, vets declaring bankruptcy, etc... really started to surface and slowly became the mainstream thought. It was only in the last 2-3 years it seems like that it became notoriously difficult for new grads to find jobs. Maybe it was true a little before the economy took a hit, but it was certainly not talked about. At least that's what scares me. It's not that I'll be in debt. It's that I won't have a job to pay off that debt, or salaries become so depressed from all the competition that I will go bankrupt (and still owe debt).
 

wildcatj

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MonkeyResrcher:
I am in the same boat deciding what to do with my future and if that includes vet medicine. I did not get into my IS, but I got into an expensive OOS option. I think I would love the profession but I don't know if it is worth hundreds of thousands of dollars before I explore other options. I am hoping to get into Teach for America.

My question is if I got into a US vet school and turn it down to do something else (primarily for fear of crippling debt) if I applied again at some point if I decided vet medicine was really all I wanted (and this times with hope of getting in IS), would my chances be hurt because I had previously turned down an acceptance to veterinary school?

The only way that would matter would be if you applied to the same school that accepted you before. Otherwise, I don't think there's a way for any other school to know that you had been accepted previously.
 

cs5910

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The only way that would matter would be if you applied to the same school that accepted you before. Otherwise, I don't think there's a way for any other school to know that you had been accepted previously.
This didn't apply to me, but on the VMCAS it does ask what years you have applied previously... So I guess a school could potentially ask you the outcome of those cycles/if you turned down a school?
 

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The only way that would matter would be if you applied to the same school that accepted you before. Otherwise, I don't think there's a way for any other school to know that you had been accepted previously.

Unless they changed something, VMCAS asks if you've previously applied and have been accepted to vet school. I'm pretty sure it's in the sections of 'if you anwered yes to any of these, explain'

Could be wrong though...
 

Kpowell14

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Unless they changed something, VMCAS asks if you've previously applied and have been accepted to vet school. I'm pretty sure it's in the sections of 'if you anwered yes to any of these, explain'

Could be wrong though...

It asked if you applied but not if you were accepted.
 

StartingoverVet

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I don't think the income to debt ratio is the doom and gloom he's talking about... That's something I think a lot of people have always known, but given that it seemed like there was good job security of moderate income, it wasn't as worrisome. You might be forever lower middle class, but it seemed like you could make it. Owning a clinic or specializing would bring more money. There were also shortages, so worst comes the worst you could go to an underserved area and your life could be stable. You might just not be able to practice in your ideal location. So it seemed like life was livable for most vets. Even when the economy first tanked in 2008, vet med was supposed to be 'recession proof'

It wasn't until 2009-2010 that conflicting info about not enough jobs, saturation of even some specialties, clinic owners struggling, vets declaring bankruptcy, etc... really started to surface and slowly became the mainstream thought. It was only in the last 2-3 years it seems like that it became notoriously difficult for new grads to find jobs. Maybe it was true a little before the economy took a hit, but it was certainly not talked about. At least that's what scares me. It's not that I'll be in debt. It's that I won't have a job to pay off that debt, or salaries become so depressed from all the competition that I will go bankrupt (and still owe debt).

But even in just the last 5 years, tuition has gone up considerably.... And salaries are softening.

I think most people figured that since there would be shortages, salaries would HAVE to be robust.

Basically all the elements are against the profession. Enormously increasing supply, slightly decreasing demand, increased cost of entry, and of course increased competition from non-vets (ordering meds on-line, non-vets doing traditional vet jobs etc).

Yes, there are always ways to be "above average", which is great for an individual to try to attain, but for the profession, there is a serious unaddressed problem.

One of the biggest worries I have is that historically vets have been one of the best professionals to lend to, and it has been pretty easy to get loans to buy or start a practice. My guess is that some people are going to over-extend and there will be an increase in vet bankruptcies... and that will ultimately lead to fewer loans at higher costs. It is speculative on my part, but I get the sense banks are pretty eager to still make these loans, and students are being told this is the way to make the most money to pay back your loans and have a decent life, and like in every other part of finance, when you don't perceive the risk building.. it ends very badly... badly for those with the loans, badly for those making the loans, and badly for everyone else who eventually needs a loan.
 

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Oh I agree 100% with pretty much everything you said SOV. I do agree that things contributing to the profession's decline has been building for a long time. And I do agree that the debt to income ratio is a huuuuge concern (especially with mad increases with the loss of state support AND class size increases of epic proportions). I was just responding to Lailanni's post that seemed to negate David's post that especially class of 2013 and older sincerely didn't know (and not out of complete ignorance) that things would turn out into almost crisis mode just a few years down the line. The outlook back before they matriculated was indeed pretty peachy in most people's eyes even with the high debt to income ratio.

It wasn't until just right before I signed my first set of loan papers that these discussions were first getting heated in VIN about exactly what the state of the profession's viability/finances were. Anecdotes were coming out one by one, and people were getting concerned, but it seemed like no one could pinpoint the actual trend. Before that, unless you tuned into a vet econ journal and read a couple of vet economist's opinions who apparently saw it coming, every resource that a pre-vet could reach generally said the outlook was good.
 

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I would get to start a new life away from drama here, work and learn about medicine and animals all day, and live in a vibrant dynamic environment with weather more mild than Buffalo, NY.

Not to say that you moving wont be awesome, but if you one of your factors for moving is to move away from drama, I can tell you it probably won't happen. I have noticed that if people just so happen to be "stuck" in a lot of drama and then move.... well they just find more drama and the cycle continues. Not saying this will happen to you... just saying people are people and they are generally the same everywhere. I have lived abroad for a while and its awesome at first!! But I just really missed America and I was excited to come home.

I would say find the cheapest option! No school is perfect and there are pros and cons to each one. Vet school is only 4 years. Think about how fast undergrad went by, vet school goes by faster because you are always busy. In the end it does not matter how much the town sucked or how much a class sucked. In the end, what matters is what you are left with. That would be debt and a DVM. Going to a school that is fancy and far away will get you the same degree as everyone else. So focus on debt.

Another option: You could even try to wait a year to apply and work to get more experience. That way you will not be losing money and you can have a little saved up if you get accepted the next year.
 

StartingoverVet

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It wasn't until just right before I signed my first set of loan papers that these discussions were first getting heated in VIN about exactly what the state of the profession's viability/finances were. .
Yeah, that was bout the right time.

I remember pretty well the summer before vet school arguing with SumStorm over the economics. I said that I thought anyone going to vet school was making a horrible economic decision.. and she vehemently disagreed.
In hindsight I think I was dead-on accurate with the state of the profession, but with the wisdom of time, see how she minimized that economic cost by her decisions (attending NCState, etc).
 

Lissarae06

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Oh I agree 100% with pretty much everything you said SOV. I do agree that things contributing to the profession's decline has been building for a long time. And I do agree that the debt to income ratio is a huuuuge concern (especially with mad increases with the loss of state support AND class size increases of epic proportions). I was just responding to Lailanni's post that seemed to negate David's post that especially class of 2013 and older sincerely didn't know (and not out of complete ignorance) that things would turn out into almost crisis mode just a few years down the line. The outlook back before they matriculated was indeed pretty peachy in most people's eyes even with the high debt to income ratio.

It wasn't until just right before I signed my first set of loan papers that these discussions were first getting heated in VIN about exactly what the state of the profession's viability/finances were. Anecdotes were coming out one by one, and people were getting concerned, but it seemed like no one could pinpoint the actual trend. Before that, unless you tuned into a vet econ journal and read a couple of vet economist's opinions who apparently saw it coming, every resource that a pre-vet could reach generally said the outlook was good.
I can remember during first year, they gave us the results of the latest AVMA new grad survey in a side by side with the Ok-State new grads. It showed that grads from Oklahoma State got offered more jobs, made more money, graduated with less debt etc. than the national average. I think with our class, we were still at that point of them telling us one thing without recognizing what was really happening.

Another thing that has hurt vet students is the end of subsidized loans. I don't think any of us saw that coming and that was once we were a couple of years in.
 

Minnerbelle

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I think with our class, we were still at that point of them telling us one thing without recognizing what was really happening.

Oh holy hellz, I was just shown the most current AVMA report for the class of 2012 by faculty who interpreted that as "see, everyone got jobs. you'll all get jobs. life is peachy!" :eyebrow:

Yeah, that was bout the right time.

I remember pretty well the summer before vet school arguing with SumStorm over the economics. I said that I thought anyone going to vet school was making a horrible economic decision.. and she vehemently disagreed.
In hindsight I think I was dead-on accurate with the state of the profession, but with the wisdom of time, see how she minimized that economic cost by her decisions (attending NCState, etc).

So... was that argument memorable because of content? Or because you were right and sumstorm was wrong? ;)
 

hygebeorht

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I don't need a 4-bedroom McMansion in the 'burbs and I don't plan on having children.

felinelvr44 are you my secret doppelganger? I also am childfree and cannot WAIT to get spayed. I am so glad that I will not have to worry about supporting children when I already have so much debt to service. I worry for the people who desire children...it will be very hard on all of us, but especially those who have kids. I'm just glad my personal desires align with the financial demands of the career.

I'm also happy with very little. When I look around our little apartment now, or sit down to a home-cooked meal with my SO, we often marvel at how lucky we are to have a warm home and good food. I think that may help us repay debt down the road.

If you think it's bad now, wait til you sign that promissory note... that's when s*** gets real!

Oh the **** will be getting very real. :scared:

So glad I busted my butt not to have much undergrad debt and decided to go to my IS instead of OOS. I calculated that I have saved myself over $100k. I just wish I was as fortunate as some people I know who have parents paying for their educations. My folks are barely getting by as it is.

Yeah, I also have no undergrad debt, but I don't really envy the people whose parents pay their whole way. I know I was already super-lucky to cover my own expenses with scholarship money, and I try not to take my advantage for granted. I worry for people who are picking up vet debt on top of tons of undergrad debt...can't be fun to be in those shoes :(

Don't think I can go to Colorado knowing this.

Don't do it, kwheezy. Not worth it. Unless someone else is covering your bills, you really have to take finances into account, and CSU's costs are insane. Go to CO for an internship if you want down the road, perhaps? :D
 

hopefulinva

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I worry less about the debt and more about getting a job, at this rate.

The people mentioned in that article were competing with gobs of their colleagues for a single position. There's no data on veterinary un/underemployment, but if those are common scenarios, then how many doctors out there are hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt with no job at all?

I feel the farther I go in this industry, the more I've been deceived while getting here.
 

Beckett

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I feel the farther I go in this industry, the more I've been deceived while getting here.

Could you elaborate on what you mean? Just curious as a rising veterinary student.

Unfortunately, I live in a state where IS is just as expensive as OOS so I guess my options are... limited.
 

Filly Bay

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Could you elaborate on what you mean? Just curious as a rising veterinary student.

Unfortunately, I live in a state where IS is just as expensive as OOS so I guess my options are... limited.

My IS is more expensive than the oos school I'm choosing if I establish residency after year one...riddle me that. Even if switching wasn't possible, my is tuition is only a few thousand off of most of the school's oos tuition
 

kernel

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I've been ruminating on this article overnight. It hasn't been pleasant, although it's not surprising either. My ma' is in the legal field and she's been pointing out the exact same phenomenon with law students for YEARS now.

Bottom line is, *yes* this is very unfortunate, but is it wise to take out $300K to pay for professional school when you know your starting pay won't even be 1/4 that amount? $160K in student loans is one thing--most of the young vets I know are working with that. Okay, fine. But after a certain point you really have to ask yourself if it's really worth it.


Yup:
Never really being out of debt and not being financially stable takes a toll. A lot of people say money doesn't = happiness but I feel like being financially stable is a factor in happiness.
 
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