NY Times Health care article. Hospitals are charging too much money to their patients (customers).

[CarlosDanger]

Oh, so they "effectively" discriminate. You mean because people with more medical problems have higher rates? You just figured that out? At some point, you'll figure out how insurance works.

I'm saying they used to deny coverage based on a pre-existing condition. That happens/happened. They are probably all dirty illegals though, and they don't deserve coverage because its always their fault they're unhealthy.

If only there were some way to spread out the risk pool by bringing in younger, healthier people so insurance premiums drop...

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[T3ckFr3s]

I still can't believe we need to convince ruralsurg of the existence of discrimination based on pre-existing conditions. Which is why I can no longer take this discussion seriously haha

 

[xcvdx]

I can't think of many other situations where an insurance company would outright deny an application unless you had a preexisting condition.

 

[xcvdx]

Its not always that fault of the person. Its not us versus them.

 

[Bacchus]

It is interesting, given the cost the OP's brother was billed, he could have found a plan for that price or less than it to help defray the cost.

 

[BlueLabel]

It is interesting, given the cost the OP's brother was billed, he could have found a plan for that price or less than it to help defray the cost.

That's a good point but I seriously doubt his deductible would have been less than $3K, probably higher.

ETA: I realize there are a lot of factors at play here but the point I'm making is the total cost of insurance including this incident would probably be more than just paying it outright, assuming he doesn't need it again for the rest of the year (reasonable assumption given his age). Obviously the earlier point about him going to an urgent care center instead would have been the most economical option.

 

[ruralsurg4now]

I'm saying they used to deny coverage based on a pre-existing condition.

Sure, but not the way YOU mean it, or anyone else in this thread. In other words, people actually believe that if you have acid reflux, as Doktormom said, then you are "uninsurable." Even though this is the pre-med forum, I'm assuming that you guys realize that's not true at all. What's the next claim? "I have hypertension, so nobody would give me insurance"? In that case, you should be amazed that anyone has any insurance. Who are these amazing people who managed to obtain insurance?!

Now, if you mean "well, I'm on dialysis, I have long-standing diabetes, I've had a stroke, and some TIAs and the insurance company told me that I'd have to pay $700/month for insurance, which is really expensive" then you're right. And so what? If you don't understand why they would do that, then as I say, you don't understand the concept of insurance at all.

 

[ruralsurg4now]

I still can't believe we need to convince ruralsurg of the existence of discrimination based on pre-existing conditions. Which is why I can no longer take this discussion seriously haha

Yeah, you do, since I don't just buy liberal talking points.

 

[BlueLabel]

I can't believe you guys still read ruralsurg's posts.

The thing is I honestly feel like he often has a good point to make, if for no other reason than to add another perspective and keep this from being an echo chamber. SDN, or at least pre-allo, is skewed towards young, tech-savvy, left-leaning people IMO. It's not a bad thing to stir the pot every once in a while.

Although he does in almost every thread end up crossing a line and shutting down reasonable discussion mostly because of his attitude. I just don't know what he seeks to accomplish with such a truculent demeanor.

 

[ruralsurg4now]

SDN, or at least pre-allo, is skewed towards young, tech-savvy, left-leaning people IMO.

...who repeat a lot of talking points authoritatively.

 

[BlueLabel]

...who repeat a lot of talking points authoritatively.

I see where you're coming from but surely you must see that you aren't swaying people with this approach.

I don't mean this offensively at all, but I get the sense that you're not actually trying to convince anyone. This is really all about you. You're tilting at windmills, and I honestly don't understand what you expect to get out of it.

I mean I agree with some of your underlying points (although not about stuff like India being developed and so on) but what you're doing here is poisoning the well. The people you're antagonizing here will simply continue to tune out opposing points of view and dismiss them as right-wing hysteria, making it that much more difficult to legitimate objections to their ideas about appropriate reform.

 

[ruralsurg4now]

I don't mean this offensively at all, but I get the sense that you're not actually trying to convince anyone.

In a sense, you're right. It's primarily just demonstrating the talking points are false. That probably will NOT convince them about anything. After all, if, as is commonly said on this forum, you believe that America's healthcare is "pretty bad," then there's not much that will convince them otherwise. The reason is because they're clearly not even able to understand reality. So to that extent, I don't particularly care what they think because it's like saying "well, you're not convincing the schizophrenic effectively." Yeah, I'm aware of that. At some point in time, usually at some point once they go into practice, a good percentage of these people will suddenly open their eyes to reality. But it's not because of any argument. It'll be because they get to live under the system they imposed on everyone. Life is the best argument against liberalism.

 

[The Buff OP]

It is interesting, given the cost the OP's brother was billed, he could have found a plan for that price or less than it to help defray the cost.

That's a good point but I seriously doubt his deductible would have been less than $3K, probably higher.

ETA: I realize there are a lot of factors at play here but the point I'm making is the total cost of insurance including this incident would probably be more than just paying it outright, assuming he doesn't need it again for the rest of the year (reasonable assumption given his age). Obviously the earlier point about him going to an urgent care center instead would have been the most economical option.

lol Luckily he got a 40% off from his hospital bill since he is uninsured.

 

[darkjedi]

I say URM's are the superior population of the homo sapiens species.

only if they practice homeopathy, the only right -pathy

In a sense, you're right. It's primarily just demonstrating the talking points are false. That probably will NOT convince them about anything. After all, if, as is commonly said on this forum, you believe that America's healthcare is "pretty bad," then there's not much that will convince them otherwise. The reason is because they're clearly not even able to understand reality. So to that extent, I don't particularly care what they think because it's like saying "well, you're not convincing the schizophrenic effectively." Yeah, I'm aware of that. At some point in time, usually at some point once they go into practice, a good percentage of these people will suddenly open their eyes to reality. But it's not because of any argument. It'll be because they get to live under the system they imposed on everyone. Life is the best argument against liberalism.

it's so cute when you speak like you know what you're talking about!

 

[The Buff OP]

It is interesting, given the cost the OP's brother was billed, he could have found a plan for that price or less than it to help defray the cost.

He went to a private hospital.
The cool part as of right now we are waiting to get insurance through my dad's new job.

 

[The Buff OP]

only if they practice homeopathy, the only right -pathy

 

[ruralsurg4now]

lol Luckily he got a 40% off from his hospital bill since he is uninsured.

Looks like I was right again! Amazing, huh?

 

[ruralsurg4now]

it's so cute when you speak like you know what you're talking about!

I just like how you continue to bang your head into walls with a blank stare while I continue to be right.

 

[T3ckFr3s]

Saying that you're right isn't an effective argument. I have failed to see many logical arguments on your part inbetween you saying "You're wrong because that's liberal" or "You're wrong because I'm right"

Troll alert?

 

[ruralsurg4now]

Saying that you're right isn't an effective argument. I have failed to see many logical arguments on your part inbetween you saying "You're wrong because that's liberal" or "You're wrong because I'm right"

Troll alert?

No, I'm right because I am. I stated earlier that people who are uninsured rarely have to actually pay the full price of their bill, which a) makes the billed amount irrelevant and b) means that insured people pick up the slack. The poorer you are, the less you pay and usually "self pay" means "for free" or "charity case." Something which you guys don't know while you sit around wailing about how mean hospitals are.

 

[CarlosDanger]

...who repeat a lot of talking points authoritatively.

You have been regurgitating tea party talking points verbatim.

No, I'm right because I am. I stated earlier that people who are uninsured rarely have to actually pay the full price of their bill, which a) makes the billed amount irrelevant and b) means that insured people pick up the slack. The poorer you are, the less you pay and usually "self pay" means "for free" or "charity case." Something which you guys don't know while you sit around wailing about how mean hospitals are.

I agree with you. I think all of us understand that this happens. There are many hospitals, especially safety net hospitals, that are hurting because of all the un or underinsured patients they treat. They are now it even worse shape because their tea party governors are refusing to accept federal medicaid money

EDIT: I think its naive to say the chargemaster rates are irrelevant. They are still used as a starting point, which does have an effect on the final negotiated price.

 

[T3ckFr3s]

I agree with you. I think all of us understand that this happens. There are many hospitals, especially safety net hospitals, that are hurting because of all the un or underinsured patients they treat. They are now it even worse shape because their tea party governors are refusing to accept federal medicaid money

This. Governor Bobby Jindal comes to mind.

 

[T3ckFr3s]

No, I'm right because I am. I stated earlier that people who are uninsured rarely have to actually pay the full price of their bill, which a) makes the billed amount irrelevant and b) means that insured people pick up the slack. The poorer you are, the less you pay and usually "self pay" means "for free" or "charity case." Something which you guys don't know while you sit around wailing about how mean hospitals are.

I am well aware of the healthcare situation. I mean the point of the ACA is to get a majority of the American people insured so that they don't go bankrupt from uninsured medical bills, which comes at the cost of tax-payer money. But it's your allegations that it's the fault of an entirely lazy uninsured population in the first place that sparked my rebuttals.

Not everyone has access to health insurance, is that too liberal a statement?

 

[touchpause13]

I hurd you won't be discriminated against as long as you only see MDs. I also hurd u leik mudkips.

Real talk: my father in law got denied a few years back because he has the sugar

 

[The Buff OP]

I hurd you won't be discriminated against as long as you only see MDs. I also hurd u leik mudkips.

Real talk: my father in law got denied a few years back because he has the sugar

lol thanks for showing love on all my post on this thread, Fez. I'm surprise nobody has been in shock about how I got my chin slice open by some guy and had to get 12 stitches (or was it 6?). I can be arrogant sometimes lol. Knowing that kid was messed up in the head he was probably going for my throat.