NYCOM and PCOM

Discussion in 'Pre-Medical - DO' started by Sheon, Mar 5, 1999.

  1. Sheon

    Sheon Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 1999
    Messages:
    320
    Likes Received:
    2
    In reviewing the options for a medical education I almost made the critical mistake of not considering ostepathic schools (particularly a foolish move because the physician I currently trust with the care for my family is an osteopath).

    I have begun looking at NYCOM and PCOM. Does anyone have any opinions on these schools? Particularly, what is the method of instruction employed (i.e., problem based learning, traditional lecture etc.)?

    Thanks in advance for any input anyone may have.


     
  2. Thread continues after this sponsor message. SDN Members do not see this ad.

  3. rachel

    rachel Junior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 1999
    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    0
    Like you, I also discovered osteopathic medicine a little too late. However, when I found out what it was all about, I discovered it was the right branch of medicine for me.
    As for PCOM and NYCOM, Ive heard that theyre are the two top osteo schools from various sources. I dont know much about NYCOMs program but PCOM has a program that they like to call Doctors from Day One, mainly because students get a lot of clinical exposure right from the start.
    Both schools are great. Im hoping to hear from them soon. Good luck to you !
     
  4. NickCVM

    NickCVM Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 1998
    Messages:
    118
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hey Rachel
    how are PCOM & NYCOM the top two best schools? where did you get this information? hmmm?
    --Nicolas--
    WesternU'03

    PS: eveybody in their right senses nows that WesternU is the top 1 school.
     
  5. rachel

    rachel Junior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 1999
    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    0
    Sorry Nick ;-) but I was just repeating what some of my peers and the docs that I work with have told me. After having looked into both schools, I have to agree with them. However, I'll pass along the good word about Western U for you :)
     
  6. Both NYCOM and PCOM are good programs from what I have heard from people in medicine. What stands out is the large number of affiliated hospitals these schools have and the areas they are in allow students to experience all aspects of health care. I have been accepted to NYCOM but don't know where I am going yet. If there are negatives about these two schools from my point of view is that the class size is extremely large, over 200. As for teaching style I don't think problem based or traditional didactic really prepares you better than the other one. I wouldn't let that be a deciding factor. However if you have just begun to look into osteopathic schools it may be a little late for this year.
     
  7. 2003

    2003 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 1998
    Messages:
    111
    Likes Received:
    0
    I have to put in my vote for NSUCOM -- since I'm going there in the fall. The class is 150 students and there is great clinical exposure as a student in the first couple of years (every other Friday you are in the office of a physician for four hours). They have many affiliated hospitals as well. And... of course, you're in South Florida! And how can you beat that?
     
  8. Henry

    Henry Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 1998
    Messages:
    324
    Likes Received:
    0
    I am from NOVA (NSUCOM). I also with 2003 that NOVA is not lagging behind other DO school.

    Many DO instructors from NOVA are graduate from PCOM. In NOVA, you will have many clinical exposure starting from the first semester.

    Although I dont' know much about NYCOM, I have talked to some MDs from the hospital where a lot or NYCOM students have their rotation. To what I learn that is they like NYCOM students. There are as competent as other med student. Also, NYCOM have a very strong OMM program. You have to know that the person that invented Factilicating Position Release, Dr. Schowitz, is the Dean of the OMM department in NYCOM.

    The class side of NYCOM is really huge. Beside the regular 250 students, I heard that they also accept abput 50 students in a fast tract program. I heard that this program are for overseas doctor that want to become a physicain in the US. These fast track student only require to take 3 years of medical school. I may be wrong. Can any NYCOM student confirmed that?

    I have to ask, are you a NY resident or a PA resident?

    [This message has been edited by Henry (edited 03-06-99).]
     
  9. Nobody has said one thing about NOVA lagging behind other schools. The thing I don't like about this board is that everyone is so defensive about everything, especially being an osteopathic physician!

    NYCOM has a class of 220 with about 50-60 foreign MD's who are retrained as DO''s in the USA. This is a three year program for them
     
  10. mr russon

    mr russon Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 1998
    Messages:
    37
    Likes Received:
    0
    Well to all you Egotistic students, I have a new one for you all, LECOM!!!!. Thats right the relatively new, small, strict school that sits in the middle of no where in Western PA. Yes thats right LECOM!!!! This school has earned the right to be up there with the top osteopathic programs in this country. If you want to give PCOM so much credit, then just look who established LECOM... PCOM graduates!! Yes it is a fact, the president of the school is a PCOM grad as well as numerous faculty and administration. I am not on here to stir up any trouble , just stating LECOM is very repuatable, and is a a 1st class institution, especially in the way this school is being run in regard to its professional attitude.. As you all my have already noticed, Im headed there, and have no regrets. It is a real shame NYCOM, PCOM and a few other schools neglect to look at an applicants entire profile, and for that I owe LECOM alot, and from that they will graduate a very complete and competent osteopathic physician in 4 years. Would love to hear any responses. Have a ball in sunny FL.

    [This message has been edited by mr russon (edited 03-06-99).]
     
  11. rachel

    rachel Junior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 1999
    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    0
    mr russon,
    whats ur email adress? Ive been trying to email you regarding LECOM and [email protected] isnt working.Post something up here. Thanks mike.

     
  12. mr russon

    mr russon Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 1998
    Messages:
    37
    Likes Received:
    0
    Sorry Rachel, my new e-mail address is [email protected] Im sory about the confussion. I had to change my account on aol the other day, however I did e-mail you a reply. E-mail soon Mike
     
  13. Henry

    Henry Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 1998
    Messages:
    324
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hi Dogboy, don't get offended. The reason I stated that "NOVA is not lagging behind" is a response to rachel's posting.

    I have friend studying in NYCOM and I have learn a lot about the school. Yes I do compare NYCOM's currculum to NOVA. I believe that knowing the strong point and weakness of my school as well as other programs, can better evaluate my status.

    Please don't feel that I try to bring down any achool. If you did feel that, there is a misunderstanding and I applogize.
     
  14. sweetpea

    sweetpea Junior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 1998
    Messages:
    13
    Likes Received:
    0
    Let's face it - everyone thinks their own school is the best!!

    UMDNJ -- ALL THE WAY!!!!!!!!!!
     
  15. DougJ

    DougJ New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 1999
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    The "fast track" program at NYCOM is called
    the APEP program. (Accelerated Program for Emigre Physicians) Foreign docs are basicly retrained as D.O's in a 3 year program. Basicly, they don't take any of the normal labs during 1st year & thier 4th year is dropped. The class size here at NYCOM has not been a major problem. NYCOM is currently building its third building which will help.

    Doug
    NYCOM 01
     
  16. Thread continues after this sponsor message. SDN Members do not see this ad.

  17. Sphenoid

    Sphenoid Junior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 1999
    Messages:
    13
    Likes Received:
    0
    listen there kiddies,

    here's the way it goes:

    1. Class size does not matter because you wont be going to class after the first 6 months anyway.

    2. Location does not matter because you're gonna be too busy to scratch the sores on your butt. Which get bigger and bigger until they pop and soil your pants. (usually towards the end of first year)

    3. Try not to go to a school where you're gonna have to move to another state and change time zones to do your clinical year. Go to a school in a big metropolitan area.

    4. Your clinical exposures in the first two years dont mean SQUATT!!!! what're you gonna do take a BP, and change bed pans? you wont know enough to differentiate a stubbed toe from appendicitis before the end of your second year anyway.

    5. If you wanna go to NYCOM, fake a NY address. or better yet go to a NY post office and buy a PO box for a year.

    6. If you're looking for finesse go to PCOM

    7. If you're looking for sun go to NOVA

    8. If you're looking for lots of snow and corn fields go to LECOM (is that how you spell it, i dont even know what that stands for)

    9. If you're looking for good clinical experiences in inbreeding and genetic diseases go to WVCOM.

    10. If you're looking for toxic waste and the occasional trifocal fish go to UMDNJ.

    11. If you're looking for the lowest student satisfaction rate in Osteopathic Medicine go to NYCOM.

    12. Oh yeah, "method of instruction"?????? what is that? a joke? I suggest a big box of toothpicks to prop your eyelids open during invigorating discourses such as "anal polyps: Follicular, Cystic, or both?"
     
  18. jdaasbo

    jdaasbo Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 1999
    Messages:
    296
    Likes Received:
    1
    Sorry Sphenoid, methinks you have a left lateral strain of your SBS. I will try a direct approach.

    As a first year my experience has been different in some key ways. Here are some points I disagree with you on:

    1)class size: if the school in question has way too many students in a class for its facilities there are many disadvantages: 1) too many people per cadaver-not enough experience dissecting things on your own (yes I believe that dissecting gives you a MUCH better appreciation for how things are built). Many of you will be going to class consistantly. A good professor in a difficult subject has classes that are attended religiously. An example of that at CCOM is pretty much the entire Physiology faculty. If you sit in the back or even the middle of a old and overstuffed (with students )lecture hall with poor AV equipment you will have an awfull experience. (one of the larger schools previously mentioned has this problem in my humble opinion).

    2)location does matter. If you hate the area you are in you will be miserable and your grades will suffer(holistic tenet number one). Go somewhere you like if you can.

    3)early clinical exposure means a lot if you are interested in it. Why 1)you will learn how to be comfortable taking H&Ps early on. We have a class at CCOM that teaches us how to do a complete history and physical exam in the first year (ausculatation, neuro, fundoscopy, etc). Pelvics and Rectals are 2nd year (no we don't do them on eachother-at least not for class (a joke)). We also have a student run 1st and 2nd year shadowing program. This helps you feel more comfortable being around real patients. I shadow an anesthesiologist and have had some wonderful experiences. This kind of thing will motivate you by reminding you of why you are killing yourself in your classes. Trust me on this-it makes sense.

    4) class format matters too. Programs with a systems approach (ie. UNECOM, MSUCOM, LECOM and others) have much less repitition between classes. You will not learn something 3 times in three 85% complete ways. You will get it once and completely. CCOM does not teach this way, but I have friends at allopathic programs that are systems based, and this is their feedback. You want at least some small group discussion based learning. Big schools do not do this well. There is a lot of evidence that shows that learning in small groups via discourse facilitates learning a lot more than when one person talks and everyone sits still and shuts up. The problem with that is it is more time consuming (an issue of quality vs. quantity perhaps). CCOM has problem based learning in Biochem, Immuno, Physio, Pharm, etc.

    And other than that I pretty much agree with the last post.

    Johan Aasbo
    MS-1 CCOM
     
  19. Sheon

    Sheon Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 1999
    Messages:
    320
    Likes Received:
    2
    Wow, I am glad everyone has an opinion. It is good to hear many perspectives. I am applying for the class starting in 2000 and your comments will be very useful.

    You can get alot of "motherhood and apple pie" statements about what osteopathy is all about, and you can visit the sites and talk to the docs about what it is all about.

    What I would really like to know is what types of things would be helpful in determining whether I am suited to be an osteopath?

    It is difficult to know what to look for in a program if you don't know what issues are of vital concern (aside from the obvious location, teaching style, and class size).

    Please keep the comments coming. Even a cynical comment is more useful than no comment at all.
     
  20. Sphenoid

    Sphenoid Junior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 1999
    Messages:
    13
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hey jdaasbo,

    You guys do rectals on each other??????



    well, sheon, as someone who's been in med school for more than 8 months, let me tell you that I know better. Jdaasbo is obviously talking about the basic science classes taught by PhDs. When you start doing your clinical courses (what you actually need to know for the boards), you'll notice that the physicians lecturing to you dont have time for "extended discourses". They're there to give a lecture for two hours, then they leave and you wont see them until rotations.

    you wanna be an osteopath huh? well, the most important thing is to have a thick skin. secondly, you have to be able to think for yourself. There are a lot of quacks out there, and even though they are a minority in the field, they make the most noise. for example, they make comments like
    "methinks you have a left lateral strain of your SBS" in ordinary speech. Invariable, you will be associated with these people. So your thick skin will get you through. Dont forget that as a physician you must, above all else, keep in perspective what is the best treatment for your patients. And (here i dare say) it will most of the time be a non-osteopathic treatment. What makes this profession so good is that you will have a more extensive training. When it comes to treating others, ignorance is not bliss.

    So, i know you're concerned now about teaching style, class size, location. But by far the most important thing that will influence your life once you are in medical school is your graduate medical education. From the moment you get in, you are training towards two goals, deciding what specialty you want, and getting the best residency you can. If you think you may be interested in things other than FP, you want to go to the school with the most extensive graduate medical education opportunities.

    You'll be bitching and moaning all throughout the first two years. You'll feel all frustrated about your grades, how you missed honors in cardio by 2 points, etc. Keep in mind that the medical profession is a very corrupt system, not only in practice but also education. You will notice once you get in that maybe half of the people in school with you had some kind of connection with someone. It still amazes me. But it's true and it carries into your internship and residency. It's certainly about grades, but not nearly as much as people tend to believe. I mean, you cant be an idiot and fail every class. I will tell you though, it's mostly about who you know and being in the right place. Which brings me back to my point, go to a school with extensive hospital associations. You might be the person in the class who consistently gets honors, but chances are you are going to pass and do like the rest of the people in your school. So, what will set you apart is how you show yourself off in your clinical years (MSIII and MSIV). Schools around major cities like Chicago, Philly, NY have good reps and access to these places. So when you go to do an elective in a big name hospital they dont look at you like you're form outerspace.

    Your pre-clinical years are not going to be fun no matter what the class size, method of teaching, and location. Dont make the mistake of picking a school that has less people per cadaver over a school with good hospitals.

    oh by the way, EARLY CLINICAL EDUCATION DOES NOT MEAN ANYTHING. it's a gimmick used by schools. everybody in their right mind knows that it does nothing more than satisfy the egos of premie med students. you are absolutely useless in a hospital until you've completed all your clinical courses and taken the boards. Even after that, people still run around like headless chickens.


    later.
     
  21. That was probably the most accurate, insightful comment that has been posted on this board yet. Hospital affiliations and who you meet make all the difference. I don't think it could be said any better than that
     
  22. Deb

    Deb Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 1998
    Messages:
    148
    Likes Received:
    0
    sphenoid

    Thanks for the good laugh!! Having just finished finals, I really
    needed it! Although I'm just a second yr, I can totally relate to
    your comments and can't wait to start clinicals. People in this
    forum (myself included) tend to be a little too serious. However,
    with pharm, path, micro, etc, etc, finally behind me I'm starting
    to feel like my old self again! YEA!!!!!!!!!!
     
  23. jdaasbo

    jdaasbo Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 1999
    Messages:
    296
    Likes Received:
    1
    Let me get one thing straight!!

    ALL of the Student on Student rectals that are done are PURELY extracurricular!

    I won't stand for any fudging on this point.

    Try and be serious everyone.
     
  24. jdaasbo

    jdaasbo Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 1999
    Messages:
    296
    Likes Received:
    1
    Now that I've worked out that kink,

    I voiced my opinion, got shot down, and I still disagree.

    Now there's defiance! What nerve after only 8 months of med school.
     

Share This Page