NYU College of Dentistry and Nursing

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3rdMolarRoller

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So we are about to get a name change....for the worse. This is horrible for the school, in my opinion. Just a way for the University (not the college of dentistry) to save money.

I wonder when they will have the College of Business and Optometry???
That sounds like a nice match too.

I sure as hell wouldn't have gone here if I knew my diploma would say: New York Univeristy College of Dentistry and Nursing

http://www.nyu.edu/provost/pdf/SOESACReportHealth.pdf

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Wow! That doesnt sound good at all.

You need to find out a way to keep "nursing" away from your diploma.
 
Brocnizer2007 said:
So we are about to get a name change....for the worse. This is horrible for the school, in my opinion. Just a way for the University (not the college of dentistry) to save money.

I wonder when they will have the College of Business and Optometry???
That sounds like a nice match too.

I sure as hell wouldn't have gone here if I knew my diploma would say: New York Univeristy College of Dentistry and Nursing

http://www.nyu.edu/provost/pdf/SOESACReportHealth.pdf


what!?!? thanks for posting that! i was considering going to nyu, too... but now my decision to attend temple has been reinforced! :eek:
 
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NYU is gonna have some really pissed off dental students if their diplomas say Nursing on it. "NYU School of Medicine and Nursing" would sound better but that would never happen. After reading that PDF, it sounds like its being done more for administrative and financial reasons than anything else.
 
This is still all in the works and may not even happen if the student body gets its way.

I will keep you up to date with this.
 
That has a funny ring to it. Just out of curiosity, why didn't they merge the nursing school and the med. school. At least them two deal with each other on a daily basis.
 
House the nursing school wherever you want, but don't put it on the dental diploma or the name of the school. What a crappy idea! Let's merge the medical school and the fine arts school while we're at it, since medicine is so talked about as an art. :rolleyes:

Please keep us posted on this.
 
Perhaps your diploma will read "College of Dentistry" even though the school will be called College of Dentistry and Nursing. The administration may be sensitive to this and respect the student body's wish to be exclusive.

I think this is a sensitive issue because dentistry is often looked upon as less academic or less important than medicine (I am in no way demeaning the nursing profession, as I think they are highly under rated and under appreciated). In this case, this decision sends the message that dentistry is not important enough to retain autonomy, but instead can be grouped with another profession. Med students will have a field day with this!!!!
 
While I feel that they shouldn't be grouped together...(because it's just weird.. i like example of "college of business and optometry"!), i don't think we should trivialize nursing either :oops:

i think (like what favabean said) that they will have it separately on the diploma
 
"College of Dentistry and Nursing"

lol :laugh:

They should not put it together like that. no way.
 
i just think whe whole idea of "merging" two completely different programs (diff classes, profs, clinics, everything) is ridiculous, and it sounds like the person/committee who wrote that little proposal thinks so as well. and the "faculty of the college of dentistry voted unanimously for the merger"??? who are they trying to kid? Sheesh.

so now, in addition to being the most expensive dental school in the country, it will also be the one with the worst name :rolleyes:
 
You may have some hot nursing students the guys can hit on! :thumbup:
 
This is just ridiculous! What is the world coming to? Perhaps you can petition this silly name change, and get your rightfully deserved respectable name on your diploma by graduation if this actually does occur. NYU just lost major points with me... :mad:
 
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If the dental school has to merge with something, why not the Dental Hygiene program?? and give the nursing to the med school (as it has been said already).
 
Comet208 said:
If the dental school has to merge with something, why not the Dental Hygiene program?? and give the nursing to the med school (as it has been said already).

and thereby cause even more confusion amongst the people who, when asking me waht i want to do, say "dental school... like to become a dental hygienist?" and refuse to believe that i want to be a full-fledged dds, thanks all the same... :D

leave the programs alone, you annnoying institution!
 
Yah-E said:
You may have some hot nursing students the guys can hit on! :thumbup:

Or.....some hot male nurses that the gals can hit on :p
 
I haven’t yet gotten involved in this forum, but I feel the need too here. Nurses are an incredibly hard working group of people who are so under-respected in our society! What is everyone’s apprehension about grouping the two together, that nurses don’t have your GPA, that they don’t go through as much school? well in many cases they do! Or is it because nurses are usually women and dentists are usually men (and I say that as a man)? Saying that the two are unrelated fields is just a cop out and a way to disguise how you really feel. They are both health care fields! Or perhaps my liberal arts education has given me some kind of super-human ability to realize that different fields are often connected (what a crazy thought). I have been accepted to NYU and if my diploma reads NYU college of dentistry and nursing, I wont be upset for one second. Get off your high horse and realize that you are not the only group of people in this world who work hard and deserve respect. No wonder so many people hate going to the dentist!
 
Breathe.... in....out....in...out

No one is hating on nurses. Or shouldn't be anyway :) We are ALL in the health field together. It's just a name...a different name, but ... nonetheless.

Come on y'all, it's Christmas...where's the ho-ho-ho

Beachluvr
 
A classmate of mine sent an email to the dean. It sounds like it may go through but not like everyone thinks. It does not look like they will just pile in the nursing students in our buildings, but rather maybe build or add another portion to our school.

The dean also said in a few days he will be sending a letter to everyone explaining what is going on. So we should know soon
 
puh-lease keep us posted Brocnizer2007!! thanks!!
 
Memorandum

To: Students, Faculty, Staff, Administrators and Alumni of NYUCD

Fr: Michael C. Alfano

Date: December 9, 2004

Re: Proposed joining of the dental and nursing programs at NYU

Background:
On December 1st, President Sexton and Provost McLaughlin issued a recommendation that the dental and nursing programs at NYU be combined into a new School of Dentistry and Nursing. I write to you today to explain the overarching issues that helped to frame the recommendation, to discuss the review process that resulted in the recommendation, and to talk about the potential implementation of the recommendation and its implications for the NYUCD community, for the practicing professional, and for healthcare in general.

This is a complex issue, so this is a long memo. However, it is worth a thorough and careful read, so that you are able to develop a more informed understanding about the proposed combination. Convention would dictate that I start with the strategic or macro issues and rationale that helped to frame this recommendation, but I have decided to begin with a discussion of the tactical aspects of the recommendation, since that is the area where most of the questions and concerns have arisen.

Change:
Few people who have been at NYUCD for the past 6 years would deny that they have been years of substantial growth and incredible improvement. From our work to expand the full-time faculty by 87 people and the part-time faculty by 25 full time equivalents, to the construction of new clinics, labs, simulation center, CE center, library facilities, and soon a new food commons, student lounge, locker room, and sterilization facility, to a quadrupling of both our research funding and alumni contributions. Indeed, we have moved into the top 10 funded dental schools in the country, delivered two flawless accreditation visits with 29 commendations, and have seen our admissions selectivity improve dramatically as our applications have increased at twice the national rate.

This substantial change is the work product of our faculty, students, staff, and administrators, and none of it came easily. Each time we sought to make an improvement, from the new curriculum, to the physical moves of offices, to merging the advanced standing and four-year DDS programs, to the oral cancer consortium, to the terrorism preparedness initiative, to changes in clinic operations and timetables, there have been honest differences of opinion, but we have always been able to work them out. Typically people react to initial reports that are incomplete, distorted, or still being formulated. Thus, it is not surprising that there is concern about the proposal, and it is appropriate to explore the issues in considerable detail.
 
Process:
One of the questions asked by some people is, “How was this recommendation reached?” The process began over a year ago when the President asked for a review of all programs at the Steinhardt School of Education. To conduct that review, the Provost appointed a number of committees, and the Steinhardt School conducted an internal review of its portfolio. The Provostial committees focused on music, culture and communications, art and health. I was appointed to the health committee along with the deans of Medicine, Wagner, Social Work, and Steinhardt, and several of the department heads of health sciences from Steinhardt including physical therapy, occupational therapy, speech pathology, applied psychology, and nursing.

Early in the process the Division of Nursing expressed an interest in combining with the College of Dentistry in order to get closer to the health sciences, and because there was more likelihood of research and teaching synergies. There was also considerable discussion about merging all of the health programs at Steinhardt into the College of Dentistry. In the end, for reasons defined later, the combination that made the most sense, had the most synergy, and was most likely to improve healthcare was dentistry and nursing.

Within two weeks of the initial expression of interest by Nursing in a partnership with Dentistry in December of 2003, I brought the matter to the attention of the Executive Management Council (EMC) of the College of Dentistry. The EMC is the chief administrative body of the College, and is comprised of all of the department chairs, division heads, most of the deans, several administrators, and four elected members of the faculty council, including a part-time faculty representative. This matter was discussed many times at the EMC and beginning in January of 2004, the combination of nursing and dentistry at NYU was discussed at four consecutive regularly scheduled meetings of the full faculty of the dental school.

At each of these meetings there was no objection to the combination of these two areas by anyone present. Indeed, there was always great enthusiasm for the combination, and at the March meeting of the general faculty, after I encouraged the faculty to focus on any possible negatives for this combination, not a single objection was made. At that time in a vote of the large number of faculty members present, all votes were in favor of a combination of dentistry and nursing at NYU. The absence of any objections in about 10 meetings of both the leadership and general faculty of the College, plus the completely affirmative vote of the faculty at the March meeting that led to the statement that the dental faculty had unanimous support for the concept.
 
Name and Structure:
There was extensive discussion of the possible name for the combined school at the EMC, but limited discussion of the name at the general faculty meetings. At the EMC, and at the University, there was general agreement that we should call the new school what it would in fact be, a School of Dentistry and Nursing. I support this name, because it accurately defines the entity. However, I have not supported a divisional structure for the dental program under the School of Dentistry and Nursing. I have urged that both units – Dentistry and Nursing - be organized as Colleges under the School. Although no final decision has been reached, I am optimistic that given the long legacy of the College of Dentistry, it will be structured as a College of Dentistry under the new School.

Let me say a word about “college” vs. “school”. Some have expressed a concern that school is a lesser title than college. This is not the case; the term school is primarily reserved for professional education units within a university such as Harvard Medical School, NYU School of Law etc. “College,” particularly at more prestigious private institutions like NYU, is typically reserved for Arts and Science. A review of the names of dental schools in the country indicates that only 14 of the schools carry the title of college, while the rest are all schools. Among these 14 Colleges of Dentistry, only two are private. Thus, there is no stigma associated with being a school vs. a college. Indeed, if one reviews the structure of elite private universities, there is a very clear preponderance of professional programs organized as schools not colleges.

In conclusion, I am optimistic that based on my recommendations and the concerns many of you have expressed, that the name of the entity will be the NYU School of Dentistry and Nursing, which will incorporate the dental program as the College of Dentistry.
 
Leadership:
Another common question is, “Who will be dean of the new School of Dentistry and Nursing”? If you have read the document by the Provost and President you will note that Provost and the Senior Vice President for Health will use an expedited process to consult with representatives of the faculty on the appointment of a dean for the School of Dentistry and Nursing. If I am appointed, I intend to accept the position, and also to continue as Dean of the College of Dentistry.
 
Space:
Many are rightfully concerned about space for the combined school. A careful read of the recommendation indicates that space is yet to be determined. However, rest assured that I am committed to find additional space in the vicinity of the dental school for the nursing program; and further, that we will not be able to move the program until we identify suitable space for it. This is not to say that nurses and nurse practitioners will not be in the dental school working in Bluestone, taking an evening class, or even helping a dental student with a medically compromised patient. Indeed, it is these very interactions that we seek to crystallize in the interest of better patient care, better education, and more robust patient referral opportunities. It is these interactions that will add dimension to our dental and nursing programs that other schools will begin to envy. In short, the impact of combining the two programs on space will be neutral to positive. I have added 30,000 square feet of space to our facilities in 6 years, and I do not intend to stop expanding and improving our facilities.
 
The “Pecking Order”:
While very thoughtful questions and concerns have arisen about this unusual combination of dentistry and nursing, there has been one issue that strikes me as unseemly. Specifically, some in our community seem to want to look down on nurses, in the same manner in which some physicians seem to look down on dentists, or nurses sometimes look down on hygienists. Ugh! While I understand this convention, and have occasionally experienced it personally, we should do nothing to perpetuate it, especially as it affects our community. We are so much better than that.

Nursing ranks number one among all professions in respect by the public; and I submit that this respect is well earned. For example, the nursing program at NYU trains nurses at the baccalaureate, master’s and doctoral levels; and the per capita research support of the NYU nursing faculty is among the highest in the university. Moreover, Dr. Fulmer, the Director of the Division of Nursing is the first non-physician to be named president of the Gerontological Society of America. Clearly we will be partnering with people of great substance regardless of the abbreviations after their names.

I have always respected people for their character, compassion, ethics, integrity, and leadership, not for the letters that precede or trail their name. This does not mean that I don’t respect highly educated people, it simply points out that there are many measures of quality and esteem. In summation, if you are ever laying on a gurney in a hospital ER will you be looking up or down at the nurse practitioner who comes to your aid?
 
Diploma:
Students are interested in what the diploma will say. I do not know for sure, but I believe that the diploma will say New York University, School of Dentistry and Nursing, Doctor of Dental Surgery. The important thing about the degree is that it will be from New York University, one of the premier research universities in the country, from a school that has become one of the most respected dental programs in the country. If you have friends or relatives in and around New York City ask them what they think of the reputation of NYU dentists. And, if you know people in dental education from other dental schools, ask them what they think about what is going on at NYU. I believe you will be impressed with the answers to both questions.
 
Student Perspectives:
A typical perception for students in almost any kind of program would be that “the administration” does not care about them, or value their point of view. Of course this is almost never true, but it is true that administrations, including mine, can do a better job of communicating with students. At NYUCD we rely primarily on face-to-face meetings with student leadership, e-mails, Nexus, and the occasional class meeting to communicate. The meetings focus not only on existing concerns that students may have, but also on such things as appropriate designs for new facilities like the library or the student center, and also plans for things like changes in clinic operations.

The typical sequence is for faculty and sometimes staff to study a programming change and when some preliminary direction is identified, to share it with students for their input. For example, this is the way the clinic session schedule was developed, and student facilities were designed. In the case of combining dentistry and nursing, there was a third vector, the University administration, and it was not clear until very recently that the University would be proposing the creation of a new school. Thus, there was little to share with students until now. That said, as soon as I knew that the President was likely to recommend this change, I began to speak to class leaders about it, and will continue to speak to students going forward.
 
ADA, Alumni and External Perspectives:
In order to ensure that the decisions about working together with nursing would not be poorly received by either the profession of dentistry or nursing, I have spoken with a number of groups about it during the past year. The reaction is always the same – an initial scrunching of the face or a comment that, “It seems strange” – followed 20 minutes later by, “Oh, now I get it!.” In fact, I am reminded of the story of Fred Smith, the founder of FedEx, who scored a low grade on a paper he wrote about the concept for his company in graduate school, because “No one needs next day package delivery.” Stated differently, truly new ideas usually seem strange, and our hybrid school falls into that category.

In any case, I discussed this concept with the American Dental Association Board of Trustees in February, and though it initially seemed strange to them too, they were encouraged by the opportunity it would present to dentistry. Indeed, when I was speaking to the ADA President at a reception in August of this year he said to me, “I want you to know that I really like this concept of nurses partnering with dentists. In fact, I talk about it in my speeches. What I say is, ‘Do you think dentists would be more or less professional if they partnered with nurses in their practices?’ and the audience always answers more professional.” This is not to say that practicing dentists will agree with him, or that the ADA would be willing to endorse the idea, because most dentists in practice like things just the way they are. That has always been true. Nevertheless, if you read the sections on Macro Issues, I believe that you will come to understand the critical importance of this partnership better.

The ADA perspective on this idea probably will be muted for some time, until the situation with the dental health therapists who have been trained to deliver oral health care in Alaska is resolved. These therapists were trained in the New Zealand model as so called “dental nurses”; and although this is not anything like the model we are proposing for NYU, we will be confused with it until people understand our model better.

The alumni I have spoken to either love the idea because it is innovative, or dislike it because it is unusual. But, if I get 20 minutes to explain it, the majority of alumni become positive about the move. In fact, at one alumni meeting where I spoke, a dentist unknown to me asked to speak and disclosed that he hired a nurse-practitioner to work in his office four years ago, and he said it was the best thing he ever did for his practice. That said, the practice partnership model is not for everyone, just like many dentists do not employ a hygienist.

For reasons defined in the Macro Issues sections, thought leaders in other health professions uniformly embrace this concept. This support is based on reports of the Institute of Medicine that health practitioners need to begin to work in interdisciplinary teams, and to train in such teams too. This interdisciplinary approach is likely to lead to higher quality health and more efficient healthcare for a nation that cannot afford to care for a large segment of its citizenry.

Finally, I offer a specific comment on physicians. At the present time it seems to me that the majority of physicians do not like this idea. However, if dentists are to deploy nurse practitioners in their offices, they will need to be partnering with physicians, because nurse practitioners need collaborative agreements with physicians in most states. These agreements define the parameters of care under which the nurse practitioners can practice, and this hybrid system is likely to lead to more cross-referrals among physicians, dentists, and nurses, and to better care for patients as described elsewhere.
 
Rationale:
The rationale for this combination was well described in the recommendation of the Provost and the President. It is reproduced in the next four sections below for the convenience of the reader. IF YOU HAVE ALREADY READ THE PRESIDENT’S RECOMMENDATION, YOU CAN SKIP THE NEXT FOUR SECTIONS.

Research: Both Dentistry and Nursing faculty have steep upward trajectories in externally funded research, and the combination will enhance and accelerate those trajectories and create significant synergies across Nursing and Dentistry. Nursing faculty has among the highest external funding per capita in the University. The Dental faculty, led by a new cadre of active researchers, has quadrupled its federal research support in the
last four years. Because of the common health dimensions in the nature of the expected
research in the new school, and in the rich funding sources in Dentistry and Nursing, the
new school’s ability to provide an environment for productive research for both units will
be enhanced, including proposal development, facilities, grants and research administration. Taking these benefits together, the potential for increased research funding will be improved significantly. In addition, the potential for collaboration is substantial. Nursing and Dentistry have already collaborated on a catastrophe preparedness grant, and more collaborations are planned in such areas as sleep apnea, pre-term birth, diabetes, pulmonary infection, cardiovascular disease, geriatrics, and smoking cessation – all conditions in which systemic health problems have been linked to oral diseases or problems. In addition, both Dentistry and Nursing have specific research initiatives in areas such as geriatrics, pediatrics, cancer, and health disparities that will benefit from direct collaboration. It is also highly likely that the innovative clinical practices that are discussed below will lead to significant research and evaluation opportunities. Finally, though more subjective, the emphasis on health research and the ability to celebrate and reward excellence in research within the school will be a factor in the improvements within and across the two areas as a result of the combination.

Teaching: Traditionally, nursing, dentistry and virtually all other healthcare disciplines
have little overlap; and, therein resides the opportunity. Many healthcare planners
believe that for too long the health professions have been educated in independent ‘silos’
selecting not to interact in meaningful ways during training, which not only increases the
cost of education, but fosters problematic isolationism in clinical practice. The
integration of the education of healthcare professionals is critical to promote better
teaching and research programs, and may help to create more cost-effective health care
overall. A more specific analysis of synergy between the curricula of the NYU Dental
and Nursing programs uncovered a surprisingly high 30 percent overlap in subject matter taught in the two programs. This overlap provides some of the underlying basis for the academic synergy and the economic efficiency in moving the programs together. For
example, although it would be unrealistic to expect that more than one-third to one half of
this overlap can be captured in the short run in joint programming, conjoint competencies
in such areas as ethics, pain control, and medical histories are a natural. Beyond the
specific substance of the courses, the two health care units have the potential to engage in
significant innovation in teaching, using synergistic approaches that draw on simulation,
technology and telecommunications.

Innovations in Clinical Practice: A particularly creative aspect of this new school is the
potential to build entirely new models of preventive and proactive healthcare delivery.
At a time when members of the massive ‘baby boomer’ generation are about to enter
their healthcare intensive years, new models of healthcare delivery are desperately
needed both because of costs and soaring demand. For example, nurse practitioners, as
reported in the Wall Street Journal of October 11th, are a highly effective resource in
increasing access to healthcare. However, it is often difficult for nurse practitioners to
succeed in small private independent settings because of overhead considerations.
Deployment of nurse practitioners in dental offices, which have different geographical
distribution patterns, visitation patterns and patient pools than physicians, can be very
cost effective. Nurse practitioners in dental offices, working in concert with
collaborating physicians, could improve the prospects for early diagnosis and treatment
of conditions such as hypertension, hyperlipidemia, and diabetes. Moreover, more
people would have access to knowledgeable health care professionals who can assist in
managing the two greatest threats to the health of the public: obesity and smoking. The
NYU School of Dentistry and Nursing will be uniquely qualified to conduct the research
to assess these innovative opportunities.

The combination of Dentistry and Nursing can also facilitate the development of entirely new types of hybrid healthcare professionals including hygienist/nurses, nurse/dietitians and a new category of nurse practitioners matched to and partnered with specific dental
specialties. For example, a pediatric nurse practitioner could be invaluable in a pediatric
dentistry office.

Service: Both the Nursing and Dental faculties are now involved in a range of service
initiatives, and there are synergies between the two sets of activities. For example, it is
expected that the community clinics and mobile health service programs, now run
independently by Dentistry and Nursing, will be combined in collaboration with the
outreach of the Steinhardt School of Education to better support children in the city,
and in collaboration with the School of Medicine to better support the elderly in
community centers and nursing homes. Other on-going programs, such as the cancer
programs in Dentistry and the geriatric programs in Nursing will likely lead to new and
expanded service projects that also provide important interdisciplinary educational
opportunities for students.
 
The Macro Issues: Dentistry
Any decision on combining the education of professionals like dentists and nurses under one figurative roof – a School of Dentistry and Nursing – warrants consideration of the general environment in the country under which the combination might take place. For dentistry, it has been said, that it is “the best of times…the worst of times”. Dentistry has certainly become a prosperous profession driven by modern techniques and a great deal of interest by the public in esthetics. Accordingly, many practitioners would argue not to change a thing. However, there are also worrisome trends affecting the profession.

As stated in the Surgeon General’s report on Oral Health, there is a problem with access to dental care and disparity in oral health. These problems have contributed in part to the State of California disbanding its Board of Dentistry, and creating six ways to get a dental license in California, including soon the independent accreditation of international dental schools. In addition, Native Americans, living in Alaska and working with the Indian Health Service, have fostered the training of dental health therapists, who with less than two years of training post high school, are doing simple restorations and extractions in remote communities in Alaska.

In addition, there is concern that the extensive focus on esthetic dentistry in the media could lead to a perception by the public that this is what dentistry is all about. While this media helps to drive people into the office for treatment, if it comes to dominate the perception of what dentists do, it is possible that dentistry can drift from a “must have” primary care health service to an elective “can do without” cosmetic service. Should this drift happen, such programs as dental health insurance, dental student health professions loans, and support for dental research could wither. These would be very worrisome changes since dental insurance still pays for half of all dental care in the United States. In addition, as individual states have run into funding problems, they have begun to reduce their support for health education, putting further pressures on tuition and thereby expanding, not contracting, the need for government backed loans for dental education.

Another concern is that as dental schools struggle to maintain both a high academic and research profile within their universities and to control costs, some have failed and closed. Thus, great universities like Northwestern, Georgetown, and Emory have elected to close their dental schools, just as society seems to need more dentists. Conversely, other, less well-known institutions, have elected to open dental schools. I submit that this is not a positive trend for the profession, because it was the decision of great research universities to add dental schools 100 or more years ago that actually helped to move the practice of dentistry into the high professional stature that it enjoys today vs. its perception in the days of Doc Holliday.

The creation of the NYU School of Dentistry and Nursing establishes the school as a leader in ensuring that dentistry will continue its roots as a primary healthcare profession worthy of a respected place at the table of the most prestigious universities in America. To the extent that, as a result of our program, dentists and nurse practitioners work more closely together, it has the potential to help keep dentistry firmly placed in the arena of a mandatory healthcare service, not an elective esthetic service.
 
Macro Issues: Health Care
It should be no secret to anyone who reads a newspaper today that the country is in a healthcare crisis. Healthcare costs have escalated at double-digit rates for the past four or five years, at a time when inflation was in the very low single digits. This has caused most companies to reevaluate and cut back on health insurance and has added millions of people to the 45 million who do not have health insurance. All of this has occurred before the large cohort of “Baby Boomers” reach their healthcare intensive years, which will put enormous additional stress on the system and make matters worse. Clearly, the country needs to explore other models of health care delivery if we are to succeed in providing quality care for all people.

At the same time that we have a crisis in healthcare costs and delivery, there is growing concern about the quality of healthcare services, and medical errors that result in bad outcomes for tens of thousands of patients in hospitals every year. One step in addressing this problem has been the recommendation of the Institute of Medicine of the National Academy of Sciences that healthcare professionals should be trained together, when possible, rather than in silos, so that they are better prepared to work together and to consult with and refer to each other in the interest of better patient care.

Creation of the NYU School of Dentistry and Nursing places our institution squarely in a leadership position to help contribute new models of healthcare delivery. In addition, given the different geographic distribution of dentists vs. physicians, and the different visitation patterns that patients have for dentists vs. physicians, models in which nurse practitioners are placed in dental offices can lead to earlier diagnosis, earlier referral, and simpler treatment of some of the chronic diseases and conditions affecting the public. It is in our enlightened self- and economic interest to evaluate the potential good that can come from new models of healthcare delivery.
 
Next Steps:
Now that the recommendation of the President and Provost has been announced, it is expected that we will continue to discuss the issues and help to shape the future of the new School together through continued departmental and faculty meetings, as well as meetings with student leaders, the faculty council, and distinguished alumni. Specifically, it is expected that a version of the recommendation modified along the lines I have discussed herein will be presented to the NYU Board in the near future. In addition, several joint committees will be formed to develop plans in many areas including such areas as space, clinical affairs, continuing education, development and so forth. Once these joint ad hoc committees frame the issues and opportunities, we will begin to develop a new strategic plan in an inclusive process similar to the one we used in 2000 that will include dental and nursing faculty, administrators, students and staff.
 
Conclusion:
I am extremely enthusiastic that the President and Provost have recommended that the concept proffered by Nursing and Dentistry that the programs be combined to create the School of Dentistry and Nursing, be adopted by NYU. Such a school would be vaulted into a position of leadership by which improved teaching approaches can be developed, collaborative research ideas can be incubated, and new practice models can be promulgated. It has the potential to expand and improve the care delivered by dentists, nurses and hygienists, and to positively impact not only the oral health, but also the general health of the public. In a very real way, this combination can assist the country as it wrestles with the expanding healthcare crisis; and it projects all three professions – dentistry, hygiene and nursing - into a more important role in assuring the nation’s health. It surely will be difficult to attain these lofty goals, and such considerations as insurance coverage, physician partnerships, and misunderstanding by our colleagues must be addressed; but, as I said earlier, no important changes come easily.

On a more local level, dentists who elect to practice in association with nurse practitioners will benefit from: the assistance available to them should a medical emergency occur in the office; the additional referral patterns that would be generated by another primary care practitioner in the office; and, the fact that patients will like the convenience of getting a diabetes test, their cholesterol checked or a flu shot at the dentist’s office. Indeed, a patient who might be prepared to cancel a recall visit might think twice if that visit also provided an opportunity for a flu shot.

This is a special moment for our professions; and we should feel very privileged to be working at an institution that is willing to challenge itself to find better ways to improve not only the educational process, but also the human condition. Many universities might recognize the value of such a partnership, but not have the courage to implement it. President Sexton has said that NYU will be the leadership university of the 21st century; and important, bold decisions like this one will help take us there. As someone said today, this is not simply out of the box, it is a new, bigger, better box!

Thank you for your patience in reading the entire document.
 
Yah-E said:
You may have some hot nursing students the guys can hit on! :thumbup:

GREAT call ! :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
 
Well, they're still keeping the Nursing name on the conjoined name and the diploma, so this still blows. This has nothing to do with respect for nurses, of whom we all have great respect. Dentistry is solely a doctoral degree in this country. While nursing has graduate degrees, it also has bachelor's degrees, and should therefore be a seperate entity in name from dentistry.
 
This email justifies and rationalizes the decision to merge nursing and dentistry quite well. But I also think Mr. Alfano could sell milk to a cow. I can’t help but feel apprehensive about the decision. As sidewalkman just mentioned, dentistry is a doctorial degree, and should therefore be on its own, or merged with another doctorial program. I still feel that nursing relates more closely to medicine, and therefore a merger there would be more logical. It would make more sense to call it School of Dentistry and Dental Hygiene, a decision I would fully support because it would maintain the autonomy and specificity of the school.

And once again, I am not putting down nursing. As someone who works in a hospital, I know how valuable and critical nurses are to the health care field. But why should someone’s diploma read “Nursing” if they in no way were a part of that program? I think this merger has more to do with money and administrative politics than the desire to bridge the gap between various health fields. :idea: Just a thought.
 
favabean said:
I think this merger has more to do with money and administrative politics than the desire to bridge the gap between various health fields. :idea: Just a thought.

Exactly!!!


As much as I like Dr. Alfano, this deal has too much stink in it for me to jump aboard. Too much politics in this merger...way too much.
 
To: All dental students at NYUCD

In follow-up to my e-mail from last night, I would like to bring you up to date on the diploma issue. Several class officers endeavored to see me today as I was leaving the building to attend a fund raising meeting uptown; and, I would like to share with you what I told them. Specifically, I support some type of grandfather clause that will allow you to receive a diploma with the current name of New York University College of Dentistry. Indeed, I have already requested this of the University administration, but I do not know how it will turn out. I will do my best to expedite the decision, and will let you know as soon as I hear.

Enjoy the weekend.

Sincerely,
Dean Alfano ---
 
favabean said:
This email justifies and rationalizes the decision to merge nursing and dentistry quite well. But I also think Mr. Alfano could sell milk to a cow. I can’t help but feel apprehensive about the decision.

Agreed. It is a big pile of spin. I still don't see why they can't call it whatever the heck they want but still have the School of Dentistry and School of Nursing be two individual entities under the larger College of Dentistry & Nursing.
 
Dear Dean Alfano,

I appreciate your promptness in addressing the matter of the proposed
merger of the Dentistry and Nursing programs at NYU.

Nevertheless, I did have some difficulty understanding certain aspects
of the proposal and was hoping you would be able to take a few moments
from your busy schedule to help me through them. Because this is a
dynamic and unconventional move that will ultimately affect all of us,
I have forwarded this message to my class and ask that your response,
for our collective benefit, be directed to the student body-at-large.
Whereas the recent commotion has revolved around issues of prestige,
image, names, and titles, I am more concerned with practicality and am
reasonably certain that not just a few students would appreciate
further clarification by answering some questions.


A. Practical applications of the new program:

1. To what extent does dentistry "overlap" with nursing?

2. If I remember correctly, a nurse practitioner must be covered by a
licensed MD. If the nurse practitioner makes a mistake in the dentist's
office, will the dentist's malpractice insurance coverage apply or will
the dentist be held liable for administering care outside his/her scope
of practice?

3. There are very few of us who will have the luxury of operating on a
strict fee-for-service basis. The vast majority will rely on insurance
reimbursements. To justify the cost of employing a nurse practitioner,
other considerations notwithstanding, will mainstream dental insurance
carriers issue reimbursements for the services of an NP, given that
they are not assisting directly with dental procedures?

4. Considering that a major objective of this merger is the integration
of primary medical services within the scope of dental practice, will
mainstream dental insurance carriers reimburse for the overhead
associated with diagnostic equipment and testing supplies?


B. Administrative considerations:

1. Why not offer a certification program in dental nursing directly
through the College of Nursing?

2. How will the new program be funded?

3. September 1, 2005 is given as the target date for the establishment
of a new College of Dentistry and Nursing. Is our school now being
presented as the future New York University College of Dentistry and
Nursing to prospective students and the incoming Class of 2009? If not,
when will the admissions literature be revised to reflect this change?


While many of us are apprehensive about this move, I'd like to take a
moment to contemplate the issue from a different perspective. Nursing
has evolved so much through the years, with "innovations" that seemed
as if they would work flawlessly, at least in principle. The problem is
that so many of the "innovators" never really had to work in that
arena. Primary care nursing, couplet care, team-leading, cross-training-
-they were all cutting-edge paradigms that proved disastrous, leading
to the current nursing shortage and a sharp decline in enrollment at
nursing schools nationwide.

Indeed, you may very well have that miraculous solution we've all been
praying for. So many nursing schools have invested enormous amounts of
money to implement new nursing models to enhance the delivery of care
or "upgrade" the profession, but by the time a student graduates, that
new model is outmoded or proven ineffective. In the end, the student is
left disillusioned and the nursing school is left searching for ways to
recover wasted funds, often at the expense of new, incoming students.
An effort designed to attract new students only succeeds in driving
them away!

Nurses are leaving hospitals in droves because of poor wages (resulting
from rising hospital administration costs), lack of respect, and
rotating shifts. It is my firm belief that the establishment of new
paradigms in nursing care, whose objectives are ostensibly to improve
the image of the profession, are little more than avoidance tactics
designed to circumvent these very real problems facing nursing today.

I earnestly hope that the proposed merger works to the benefit of all
parties involved and isn't just pie-in-the-sky that, when all is said
and done, serves only to diminish our dental education and hurt the
nursing profession even more. There is so much more than a mere name
change at issue here. We have too much at stake to be part of an
experiment.

I hope you understand the depth of my concern and again wish to express
my sincerest appreciation of your taking the time to answer my
questions as honestly and as thoroughly as you are presently able.

Kind regards,
XXXXX XXXXXXX
 
ItsGavinC said:
This is absurd. There isn't any need for a nurse practioner to work in a dental office.

Any dentist employing one is following a horrible business model, IMHO.

Second the motion. Despite Dr. Alfano's desperate attempts to spin damage-control propoganda, his arguments make very little sense. Since when do dentists work more with NPs than they do with RDHs, or MDs with NPs? And I doubt this is likely to change in the future - the fields just don't match up at all.

But let's see how the good Dr. answers the salient question posed in that excellent email - perhaps he will have some more words of wisdom to share.

And Brocnizer - thanks for the updates. I think we're all keeping score in th is latest battle of reason vs. academic funding.
 
snwman said:
I haven’t yet gotten involved in this forum, but I feel the need too here. Nurses are an incredibly hard working group of people who are so under-respected in our society! What is everyone’s apprehension about grouping the two together, that nurses don’t have your GPA, that they don’t go through as much school? well in many cases they do! Or is it because nurses are usually women and dentists are usually men (and I say that as a man)? Saying that the two are unrelated fields is just a cop out and a way to disguise how you really feel. They are both health care fields! Or perhaps my liberal arts education has given me some kind of super-human ability to realize that different fields are often connected (what a crazy thought). I have been accepted to NYU and if my diploma reads NYU college of dentistry and nursing, I wont be upset for one second. Get off your high horse and realize that you are not the only group of people in this world who work hard and deserve respect. No wonder so many people hate going to the dentist!

This is amusing. Obviously you don't understand that this isn't just an issue about image and prestige. It's about resources and real-world application. Talk to any experienced nurse about it. They'd tell you that this is just another "bright idea" to make nursing more attractive as a profession, while skirting more pertinent issues about low pay, float-pooling and all of that crap they have to deal with. They know what the score is--nursing is becoming less and less popular and they want to pair it with a lucrative dental programme to shore it up.

The NYUCD dean mentions that this move is based on the "New Zealand Model" of dental nursing. Well, in Australia (whose healthcare system is reciprocal with NZ's) we have dental nurses and their function is similar to hygienists, with some primary care abilities. They work with a limited base, mostly children. We don't have hygienists over there. To have both is redundant, silly, and curiously suspicious.

There is also currently no insurance provision for such a model in this country, meaning that the students will likely never use it. It's a waste of their time and money. If you're going to be working pro-bono or with the filthy rich, maybe you can do that. But most dentists aren't so well connected or so magnanimous--charity begins at home and people have families to provide for.

Besides, they can't, at least from an ethical standpoint, slap the students with this nonsense part-way through their education without giving full disclosure or proposing other alternatives to them. They're preying on the students' vulnerabilities--namely, that they really can't go elsewhere at this point, and that is patently wrong.

Your "liberal arts education" has given you a nice pair of rosy spectacles to gaze at the sunset from your ivory tower.

Cheers,
datu
 
sometimes I wonder if they hot box the board room during the meetings when ideas like these are created.
 
I'm just wondering if 1. they actually believe the junk they're saying, and if not (which I assume is the case), if they 2. believe their students will buy it, which implies that their opinion of their own dental students isn't very high. Or do they just not care? my opinion of the faculty there is rising all the time...

in any case, good to know.
 
Tzips said:
I'm just wondering if 1. they actually believe the junk they're saying, and if not (which I assume is the case), if they 2. believe their students will buy it, which implies that their opinion of their own dental students isn't very high. Or do they just not care? my opinion of the faculty there is rising all the time...

in any case, good to know.

To answer your questions:

1. Absolutely not
2. In all likelihood, yes. On both counts.
 
Some good posts. I just honestly don't understand what a NP would do in a dental office. They are LICENSED to do anything in a dental office!

Hopefully our NYU buddies will keep us updated as they get more info.
 
what? NYU and SDN are merging???? :eek:
 

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