NYU Falling Rankings

[secretmiss]

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[pigpen]

Q. what do you like about nyu?

A. bellevue, location, uhhhhh

there's your problem.

 

[elias514]

Well, NYU's match list certainly does not correspond to its US News ranking. The match list this year is incredibly good.

I think it's worth the price.

 

[secretmiss]

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[scootad.]

LOL what is there to know about a medical school? They all teach the same crap. Its pass/fail 1st two years, grades 3rd year (everyone gets A or A-). Lecture heavy but transcript service during first two years. Bellevue is very hands on, some other affiliated hospitals more hands off (lennox hill, north shore).

As you know, rankings are heavily weighted towards NIH $$ which NYU seems to lack for some reason.

 

[exmike]

Dont worry about the rankings. just go where you'll be happy. A few spots up and down really dont mean anything at all.

 

[secretmiss]

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[pekq]

I've noticed that there's a trend for state schools to climb the rankings. It's only a matter of time before more state schools climb into the top 20. With the rise of state schools, more students will choose their own state school over private schools. Perhaps you should choose your own state school?

NYU's drop in ranking is simply a reflection of improvements in other schools. Furthermore, it is hard to attract top minds when you gotta compete directly with 5 other medical schools (all excellent). A friend also pointed out that MSSM get more NIH funding despite having only half of NYU's faculty numbers.

 

[scootad.]

Im not sure it has anything to do failing to "attract top minds" if you are referring to students. Their Student Selectivity stats have remained constant for years (3.7 GPA 11.0 MCAT). So its not like people w/ lower stats are matriculating. Its mostly NIH funding issues. Of course if you are talking about top "minds" in reference to faculty that might explain why NYU doesnt get NIH funding.

 

[derisivewords]

The coming academic cycle, NYU is going to the AMCAS system. That should bump the acceptance rate down quite a bit.

NIH$$ should get a moderate boost in a few years once the new research building opens and new faculty are hired.

Besides, if research is your thing, the specific mentor you have, and not the NIH$$, is what matters. NYU has some strong hands in areas such as development, cancer, etc.

But honestly, IMO I don't know what most of these people are talking about with their criticisms. But it's too bad that you can't revisit. Maybe email some folks?

Name recognition, "branding", is a hallucination. Brilliant, motivated people -will- succeed, no matter where they go. A Harvard degree will help to some degree, but on the other hand it can't offset mediocrity.

 

[Doctor&Geek]

The fact that the benefactor after which the NYU hospital is named, Tisch, is a major owner in a tobacco company, may have something to do with the loss in reputation of the hospital and its associated medical school, at least among physicians in New York.

 

[BerkeleyPremed]

The fact that the benefactor after which the NYU hospital is named, Tisch, is a major owner in a tobacco company, may have something to do with the loss in reputation of the hospital and its associated medical school, at least among physicians in New York.

I really doubt that has anything to do with the decrease in the reputation of NYU and its affiliated hospitals. In all probability, NYU's reputation is probably suffering because it's competing against the some of the BEST med schools in the country which are in the surrounding area...Cornell Medical School, Columbia Medical School, and Mount Sinai School of Medicine. NYU probably has a low yield among applicants because their common admits probably also got into an Ivy med school, their local state school which would cost MUCH less, or a med school that is equally as good but has a better reputation in the medical field.

Keep in mind that NYU earned its academic reputation because of its programs in the ARTS and BUSINESS. The Stern School at NYU is one of the top business schools in the country (just like Wharton-UPenn, Kellog-Northwestern, Haas-Berkeley, etc). NYU also has a top 3 program in Film and the Film School produced directors like Martin Scorcese and Steven Spielberg. Hopefully, NYU can bring its medical program up to the level of its programs in business and film.

 

[derisivewords]

The fact that the benefactor after which the NYU hospital is named, Tisch, is a major owner in a tobacco company, may have something to do with the loss in reputation of the hospital and its associated medical school, at least among physicians in New York.

If that is so, then physicians in New York must be incredibly ******ed.

 

[BioMedResearch]

The fact that the benefactor after which the NYU hospital is named, Tisch, is a major owner in a tobacco company, may have something to do with the loss in reputation of the hospital and its associated medical school, at least among physicians in New York.

FYI "Tisch," Robert Tisch not Preston Tisch, his brother, made his millions through his family's ownership of Loews Movie Theaters and Hotels as well as through some masterfully minded real estate ventures. The Tisch family has supported NYU for years with the Tisch College of Arts, School of Professional Education, and countless buildings downtown on NYUs main campus.

You have to be careful when spewing BS because the more you throw the more that will land on you.

 

[LP1CW]

Yale has dropped, if I recall correctly, the same amount over the past decade. They were once in the top 5 or 3 and now they are around 10. Is that a concern? Nope.

You can't judge a school based on the arbitrarily weighted criteria that has been established by US News? Who's to say it's fair that they give .3 value to one measure, .2 value to another measure. What really matters in a medical education. I would say pass rates, quality of clinical education, match list, average debt of graduates. NIH funding has too much influence in the rankings.

NYU is a great school.

 

[BerkeleyPremed]

FYI "Tisch," Robert Tisch not Preston Tisch, his brother, made his millions through his family's ownership of Loews Movie Theaters and Hotels as well as through some masterfully minded real estate ventures. The Tisch family has supported NYU for years with the Tisch College of Arts, School of Professional Education, and countless buildings downtown on NYUs main campus.

You have to be careful when spewing BS because the more you throw the more that will land on you.

LOL. This post was awesome. All the more evidence to the assertion that if you DON'T know very much about something, DON'T talk about it.

 

[BassDominator]

As you know, rankings are heavily weighted towards NIH $$ which NYU seems to lack for some reason.

I totally agree. Having interviewed there for Anesthesia, I can say they definitely have more of a clinical than a research emphasis. Nevertheless, it's an incredibly strong school, especially if you're not the academic type.

 

[Bendrix]

I have a theory that, in an effort to market itself nationally, USNews has made an effort to rid its rankings of the appearance of an east coast bias. Top schools in the south and midwest have shot up over the past decade, displacing schools like NYU and Yale.

The irony of this year's NYU slip is that the administration was apparently very excited about the release of the rankings, as they were expecting a nice rise after two straight "best ever" match years and some targeted investments.

 

[CalBeE]

I have a theory that, in an effort to market itself nationally, USNews has made an effort to rid its rankings of the appearance of an east coast bias. Top schools in the south and midwest have shot up over the past decade, displacing schools like NYU and Yale.

The irony of this year's NYU slip is that the administration was apparently very excited about the release of the rankings, as they were expecting a nice rise after two straight "best ever" match years and some targeted investments.

I wanna add that U of Chicago also fell in ranking over the years, just like NYU. However, U of Chicago still has strong reputation scores, and people in the academia (Notably biological sciences) certainly find U of Chicago to be a big name regardless of its drop in ranking

 

[exmike]

I have a feeling that NYU will rise a bit next year using AMCAS. I wonder how much of the shift to AMCAS was BECAUSE of the USNews rankings (and knowing it would boost their selectivity score). Hm...

 

[TRUE]

I have a feeling that NYU will rise a bit next year using AMCAS. I wonder how much of the shift to AMCAS was BECAUSE of the USNews rankings (and knowing it would boost their selectivity score). Hm...

Anyone know why both NYU and Columbia are moving to AMCAS next year? Why haven't they always been on AMCAS? What's the history behind that?

 

[JD428]

I wanna add that U of Chicago also fell in ranking over the years, just like NYU. However, U of Chicago still has strong reputation scores, and people in the academia (Notably biological sciences) certainly find U of Chicago to be a big name regardless of its drop in ranking

I think that UChicago is the ultimate example of the flaws in US News' rankings algorithm. The school is truly amazing, and other medical professionals recognize it as such (hence its high reputation scores).

Ironically, one of the things that makes the school so great is also what seems to most hurt it in the rankings: by making a committment to admit the "best students", not simply the students with the best scores, their selectivity rank falls (10.3 avg MCAT, pretty low for a top school). I don't know much about NYU, but it seems like their situation is reversed: high selectivity (b/c of desirable location in NYC), but relatively low reputation numbers.

I think the only part of the rankings worth paying attention to are the reputation scores (and the price tag...) - the other numbers, especially those related to selectivity, can be influenced by cynical admissions committies. I just wish I had recognized that last year when I was picking schools.

 

[CalBeE]

I think that UChicago is the ultimate example of the flaws in US News' rankings algorithm. The school is truly amazing, and other medical professionals recognize it as such (hence its high reputation scores).

Ironically, one of the things that makes the school so great is also what seems to most hurt it in the rankings: by making a committment to admit the "best students", not simply the students with the best scores, their selectivity rank falls (10.3 avg MCAT, pretty low for a top school). I don't know much about NYU, but it seems like their situation is reversed: high selectivity (b/c of desirable location in NYC), but relatively low reputation numbers.

I think the only part of the rankings worth paying attention to are the reputation scores (and the price tag...) - the other numbers, especially those related to selectivity, can be influenced by cynical admissions committies. I just wish I had recognized that last year when I was picking schools.

It's interesting cause I'm on the waitlist for both U Chicago and Northwestern, and some people told me not to bother because they're "not as good" as the school I already got into. However, in terms of reputation score, the three schools will be very similar.

 

[exmike]

It's interesting cause I'm on the waitlist for both U Chicago and Northwestern, and some people told me not to bother because they're "not as good" as the school I already got into. However, in terms of reputation score, the three schools will be very similar.

Definitely a regional variation. I think UChic and NU probably have a better reputation in the great lakes region than UCLA. Which makes complete sense. UCLA IS a research powerhouse though, that cant be denied.

 

[Newquagmire]

I have a theory that, in an effort to market itself nationally, USNews has made an effort to rid its rankings of the appearance of an east coast bias. Top schools in the south and midwest have shot up over the past decade, displacing schools like NYU and Yale.

The irony of this year's NYU slip is that the administration was apparently very excited about the release of the rankings, as they were expecting a nice rise after two straight "best ever" match years and some targeted investments.

Over time, the methodology changes too. Even with the same exact set of data, weighing things differently or dropping one criteria (i.e. change in methodology) will alter the rankings.

 

[scootad.]

I wonder what kind of "targeted investments" NYU made, and why they failed?

Also, I cant imagine the switch to AMCAS via its effects on Student Selectivity will alter NYU's rankings drastically since acceptance rate is only 5% of the 20% of the Student Selectivity portion.

 

[prmd4555]

I agree with the comments about U of Chicago completely. When I got into U of C all of the doctors at the ivy league research center I work at thought it was such a great school, and very strong academically etc. Commenting that I should take it over schools that were higher ranked (by about 5-7 spots)that I had aslo gotten into. I went to a national scientific conference and doctors said many good things as well about the school.
The rankings make me scratch my head a bit as well.

 

[BigRedPingpong]

The fact that the benefactor after which the NYU hospital is named, Tisch, is a major owner in a tobacco company, may have something to do with the loss in reputation of the hospital and its associated medical school, at least among physicians in New York.

Yes, that's it. You're good.

 

[exmike]

The fact that the benefactor after which the NYU hospital is named, Tisch, is a major owner in a tobacco company, may have something to do with the loss in reputation of the hospital and its associated medical school, at least among physicians in New York.

That must explain how Duke, which was founded by a Tobacco magnate, is slipping into the US News top 5 medical schools.

 

[jlee9531]

Well, NYU's match list certainly does not correspond to its US News ranking. The match list this year is incredibly good.

I think it's worth the price.

however a decision should not be based with the match being a high factor...since the match only reflects the type of students that are in that class...and what fields they were interested in...not a true measure of how good that school is at getting you into those programs. each class may have a different personality...if next year's match showed lots of primary care matches maybe that goes to show that the class is more focused in on that area instead of a school being bad.

if anyone is turning down nyu its only because they have their pick of wonderful schools.
i am sure its not the fact that nyu is falling...but that other schools are rising up in the ranks...all schools are trying to improve themselves...some more quickly than others...

 

[CalBeE]

Definitely a regional variation. I think UChic and NU probably have a better reputation in the great lakes region than UCLA. Which makes complete sense. UCLA IS a research powerhouse though, that cant be denied.

Yea it's a regional thing, I think the people around me at UCLA who gave me the advice certainly has a California bias

 

[liquid magma]

I added up the MCAT subset scores (10.3, 11, 11) from US NEWS for NYU, and it seems impossible that their average MCAT is really 11.0. Does anyone know if there was a typo and it is, in fact, 11.0. Or, is it actually somewhat lower (10.7) as the test subscores would imply. And, is it a coincidence that NYU's admission statistics (3.70, 11) are exactly the same now for at least 2 years.

Just wondering.

 

[scootad.]

Its been more than 2 years. THey have had identical stats (3.70, 11.0) for at least 5 consecutive years.

 

[Newquagmire]

Its been more than 2 years. THey have had identical stats (3.70, 11.0) for at least 5 consecutive years.

Any ideas why?

 

[scootad.]

perhaps given their lack of NIH funding relative to their competitor schools they figure the only way to try to maintain their ranking is to keep super high admission stats? but clearly this strategy hasnt worked.

 

[gsx56]

Why do you think that NYU is getting a lot less NIH funding? According to US News they are getting $134.2 when compared to a few others around it:

24. CWRU $246.7
28. U Iowa $136.1
28. MSSM $158.4
30. NYU $134.2
31. U Colorado $148.1
32. Rochester $130.9
32. USC $166.4
34. Dartmouth $83.8