NYU vs MSSM

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bando

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I'm trying to decide, at the last minute of course, between Mt. Sinai and NYU. Could someone please let me know what they think about either school or point me in the direction of a pre-existing NYU-MSSM thread.

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NYU is a better school. Do a search, there have been other threads addressing this issue.
 
doc05 said:
NYU is a better school. Do a search, there have been other threads addressing this issue.

I would NOT say that. They are both very strong schools and I think it comes down to fit and your personality in making this decision. I actually found Mt. Sinai to be more student friendly
 
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I think NYU is probably the better school due to the ability to train in Tsich and Bellelvue and all of the other resources of the university. I would agree that MSSM is student friendly, but am not sure if I would saw NYU was unfriendly. Do you like one of the locations better than the other? I still don't know why there couldn't have been a med school in a fun part of the city. argh
 
jjmack said:
I still don't know why there couldn't have been a med school in a fun part of the city. argh

What are you talking about?

NYU is about 10 blocks from the east village. It's near the 6 train, which would get you to astor place or the lower east side in a few minutes; and it's close to the N/R train, which could get you to the west village or soho very quickly.
 
doc05 said:
NYU is a better school.

That's your opinion. I don't agree. I think it's a personal choice, and that it's necessary to visit each place, talk to students, and make your decision based on what is important to you personally.
 
your thing says you live in nyc, so I didn't think I would have to tell you that the east village doesn't start at ~25th street. Murray hill and the kips bay area around nyu som in my mind is not a fun part of the city. I never said you could get to places quickly by the subway or bus. You do have to go a bit west to get the 6. You could argue that Columbia is easier to get to fun parts of the city due to their proximity to the A train. Also just because the area is easy access to other parts doesn't make the area good. Is anyone going to claim that washington heights is one of the best parts of the city to live in?

dianamd said:
What are you talking about?

NYU is about 10 blocks from the east village. It's near the 6 train, which would get you to astor place or the lower east side in a few minutes; and it's close to the N/R train, which could get you to the west village or soho very quickly.
 
EllieElle said:
That's your opinion. I don't agree. I think it's a personal choice, and that it's necessary to visit each place, talk to students, and make your decision based on what is important to you personally.


No, it's a fact. You can't say that Tisch/Bellevue makes NYU better, since Mount Sinai has MS/Elmhurst (pretty much the same). Comparing preclinical curricula or "student-friendliness" is foolish, as it means nothing.

As hospitals go, Mount Sinai is very good, and comparable to NYU.

If, however, you look at match lists, NYU has consistently done better. Better clinical training and a much better match list.
 
doc05 said:
No, it's a fact. You can't say that Tisch/Bellevue makes NYU better, since Mount Sinai has MS/Elmhurst (pretty much the same). Comparing preclinical curricula or "student-friendliness" is foolish, as it means nothing.

As hospitals go, Mount Sinai is very good, and comparable to NYU.

If, however, you look at match lists, NYU has consistently done better. Better clinical training and a much better match list.

The facts are the facts... NYU is a MUCH better school! Sorry MSSM, get out of debt and we can talk
 
jjmack said:
your thing says you live in nyc, so I didn't think I would have to tell you that the east village doesn't start at ~25th street. Murray hill and the kips bay area around nyu som in my mind is not a fun part of the city. I never said you could get to places quickly by the subway or bus. You do have to go a bit west to get the 6. You could argue that Columbia is easier to get to fun parts of the city due to their proximity to the A train. Also just because the area is easy access to other parts doesn't make the area good. Is anyone going to claim that washington heights is one of the best parts of the city to live in?

true, true -- i should have said about 15 blocks. the east village (and life as we know it, to some of us) starts at 14th st., so NYU is really not that far.

but actually, for NYU, it's about a $8 cab ride to the east village, and even closer to the school, I like the area of Union square north-- I guess called the flatiron district.

but can you imagine, say, a med school in washington square (a la NYU undergrad)? i don't know if i'd love it, or go crazy...
 
dianamd said:
true, true -- i should have said about 15 blocks. the east village (and life as we know it, to some of us) starts at 14th st., so NYU is really not that far.

but actually, for NYU, it's about a $8 cab ride to the east village, and even closer to the school, I like the area of Union square north-- I guess called the flatiron district.

but can you imagine, say, a med school in washington square (a la NYU undergrad)? i don't know if i'd love it, or go crazy...
st. vincents which is affiliated with NYMC i believe is pretty much in the village. I think you can do 3rd and 4th year there. Columbia med use to be in herald square if I remember correctly. can you imagine that? very different than washington heights.
 
I dont see how NYU is superior to MSSM. I consider them peer institutions. I'd personally pick MSSM b/c it is more student friendly.
 
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exmike said:
I dont see how NYU is superior to MSSM. I consider them peer institutions. I'd personally pick MSSM b/c it is more student friendly.

"...Mount Sinai and NYU are attempting to dissolve a relationship that began in 1997. The medical center lost $72 million in 2002 and another $12 million in January 2003, according to the hospital's annual financial report.

Mount Sinai is currently losing between $5 million and $7 million per month, administrators said.

The medical center's debt, which has reached nearly $700 million, has continued to bind the university to the organization partnership because NYU shares financial responsibility with the ailing hospital...

..."Our partner, Mount Sinai, is very sick," Sexton said. "They've got to do something about that. That is not the NYU hospitals' problem."

Other members of the organization include the Hospital for Joint Diseases Orthopedic Institute, Mount Sinai Medical Center, NYU Downtown Hospital and NYU Medical Center, which includes Tisch Hospital and the Rusk Institute for Rehabilitation Medicine. The organization also operates Bellevue Hospital Center, the world's largest public hospital, under a contract with New York City.

Mount Sinai Medical Center comprises Mount Sinai Hospital, Mount Sinai Hospital of Queens and the Mount Sinai School of Medicine. Mount Sinai medical school graduates receive NYU degrees...

...The merger between Mount Sinai and NYU has been historically tumultuous, including an unsuccessful lawsuit to end the partnership by NYU faculty doctors in January 1998. Recent budget cuts have limited basic maintenance operations; physicians and patients have said they are dissatisfied; and the staff is reportedly stretched thin.

Occupancy is down 10 percent following the death of a liver donor in Mount Sinai's renowned transplant program....

...Sexton said the NYU hospitals operate in a different "hemisphere" from Mount Sinai. "The NYU hemisphere is healthy," he said. "The Mount Sinai hemisphere is sick."

The NYU Hospital Center, however, is on the upswing, Berne said. "Morale is very good," he said. "NYU hospitals [are among] only a few hospitals in New York City running a surplus."

And NYU medical operations have other reasons to look ahead optimistically, Berne said.

"The faculty is great," Berne said. "We get a lot of grant money for research, and we just broke ground on a new building. There should not be any problems as long as we can successfully disentangle [from Mount Sinai]," he said."

Facts, not fiction, while painted by NYU supporters, it is a bleak story for one of the involved parties.
 
where did you get this article?
 
So all i am reading here is the financial performance of the hospitals, nothing about the quality of education. :rolleyes:

Very few medical centers run consistently in the black. MSSM has something like a 4 billion dollar endowment. I dont think they'll be running into problems anytime soon.
 
doc05 said:
If, however, you look at match lists, NYU has consistently done better. Better clinical training and a much better match list.

First, I saw nothing at NYU that made me feel like the clinical training there was at all superior to Sinai. Don't they follow similar approaches, trying to integrate clinical training across the first year curriculum? As you already pointed out, the hospitals are comparable, but I've heard from a lot of Sinai students that the free, student-run and student-staffed clinic is an amazing way to jumpstart one's clinical experience.

Second, I think that judging a school based on its match list is a tricky business. It's true that Sinai matches a disproportionately high number of people in the NY area, but did you consider that a disproportionate number of their students are from the NY area originally? Maybe matching there is what they wanted, which would be a really important consideration.

Anyway, I still maintain that it's a personal choice. :)
 
exmike said:
I dont see how NYU is superior to MSSM. I consider them peer institutions. I'd personally pick MSSM b/c it is more student friendly.

Oh really? Singin' a different tune are we?

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=103044&highlight=NYU+sinai

exmike said:
I'm gung-ho MSSM b/c its probably the second best school I have a shot at in the best location of the schools I have a shot at.

I'd prefer NYU because of its superior location compared to MSSM. It is debateable which is more prestigious but the selectivity of NYU tells me that in general their students might be better. I would imagine that NYU students have higher average board scores. NYU also doesnt have the financial troubles currently plaguing MSSM.

Since NYU isnt a choice for me, MSSM is my top choice.

exmike said:
Go to NYU, so a spot will open up at MSSM for me :D

In all honesty though, If I got in both, I would go to NYU.
 
Changing my tune? Read the damn posts you NYU pumper.

All I said in this thread was that the two schools were peer institutions. I was questioning how one could consider NYU superior to the other. :rolleyes:

All things being equal I would choose MSSM b/c its generally considered "student friendly". OP did not mention any reasons he would go to one over the other, so I
Considering I have three close friends at NYU law, and considering the two schools are equivalent in my eyes, I would choose NYU. But absent that (which is the situation we are considering for the OP) I would choose MSSM.
 
exmike said:
So all i am reading here is the financial performance of the hospitals, nothing about the quality of education. :rolleyes:

Very few medical centers run consistently in the black. MSSM has something like a 4 billion dollar endowment. I dont think they'll be running into problems anytime soon.
I agree most medical schools are selling their hospitals because they were bleeding money. I don't think MSSM has a $4billion endowment though. That is very big for a standalone med school.
 
jjmack said:
I agree most medical schools are selling their hospitals because they were bleeding money. I don't think MSSM has a $4billion endowment though. That is very big for a standalone med school.

I thought it was split b/t the hospital and the school?
 
Honestly that does sound huge for a school. If you guys have that, I'm impressed, and you'll be surpassing NYU definitely in the near future.

Well, unless our new research center doesn't do well, which really isn't possible. With our new 11 story research center NYU will be unstopable. My guess is that within 5 years we'll have our target set on P&S or Weil and we'll definitely out do one of them.

For reference- the silver bullet that did Sinai in:
http://www.injuryboard.com/view.cfm/Article=1329
 
MissionComplete said:
Honestly that does sound huge for a school. If you guys have that, I'm impressed, and you'll be surpassing NYU definitely in the near future.

Well, unless our new research center doesn't do well, which really isn't possible. With our new 11 story research center NYU will be unstopable. My guess is that within 5 years we'll have our target set on P&S or Weil and we'll definitely out do one of them.

For reference- the silver bullet that did Sinai in:
http://www.injuryboard.com/view.cfm/Article=1329

Nice 3 year old article. From what I have seen from both schools, they are pretty much on par. Sinai's finances are weak, will that affect med students? Probably not. Will that affect residents, probably so. NYU spends a ****load of money on trying to pump up its rep, will it work? Possibly. They have been doing this for years in the undergrad institution to mixed results. The school has not moved in the hallowed US News rankings, but it is one of the most desireable schools in the nation to attend (according to polls of HS seniors).

All in all, I would say you really could not go wrong at either institution. They have their pluses and minuses. It really comes down to what you want to do with your career and how you fit in. I think if you want to go into a competitive residency, NYU might be better for you. If you want to go more into primary care, Sinai would be a slightly better fit (yes nyu has training at bellevue which is hard to match, but the sinai atmosphere is more conducive to creating physicians who are more interested in people than their bottom line). I have several friends who just graduated from NYU SOM (don't know any sinai graduates), and this is all stuff that they have explained to me. Go with your heart.
 
jdovez said:
I think if you want to go into a competitive residency, NYU might be better for you. If you want to go more into primary care, Sinai would be a slightly better fit (yes nyu has training at bellevue which is hard to match, but the sinai atmosphere is more conducive to creating physicians who are more interested in people than their bottom line).

exmike said:
It is debateable which is more prestigious but the selectivity of NYU tells me that in general their students might be better. I would imagine that NYU students have higher average board scores. NYU also doesnt have the financial troubles currently plaguing MSSM.

This whole thread is just full of speculative Bu11sh1t. Higher board scores? WTF? exmike, you gotta post a link or something because as far as I know average board scores and match lists fluctuate from year to year. Plus, all this sh1t about "student friendly"...how the hell could you possibly know this? Oh yeah, I forgot, you must have attended both MSSM and NYU this past year all the while being an M1 in Ohio. Or perhaps you are able to tell by your half day interview at MSSM being exposed to a few doctors and 2 students that ran the tour that day. And jdovez, NYU undergrad and it's publicity splurging is the just that--the undergrad. In fact, the undergraduate campus has a totally separate budget from the medical center. And you better believe that you would be feeling the pain as a medical student if your teaching hospitals are going down the tubes. As a sidenote, that "4 billion dollar" endowment wasn't so helpful when they filed chapter 11 a while ago. Oh but we don't like to talk about that. :thumbup: peace
 
jdovez said:
If you want to go more into primary care, Sinai would be a slightly better fit.

if you want to go into primary care, you're better off going to your state school, and maybe save 80-100g in loans.

Mt. Sinai hospital has had a strong reputation as a tertiary referral center for years; unfortunately finances have been troubled because of a variety of reasons.

The only way to compare schools is to use pseudo-objective criteria like match lists. And NYU's have been consistently more impressive for a number of years.
 
BigRedPingpong said:
This whole thread is just full of speculative Bu11sh1t. Higher board scores? WTF? exmike, you gotta post a link or something because as far as I know average board scores and match lists fluctuate from year to year. Plus, all this sh1t about "student friendly"...how the hell could you possibly know this? Oh yeah, I forgot, you must have attended both MSSM and NYU this past year all the while being an M1 in Ohio. Or perhaps you are able to tell by your half day interview at MSSM being exposed to a few doctors and 2 students that ran the tour that day. And jdovez, NYU undergrad and it's publicity splurging is the just that--the undergrad. In fact, the undergraduate campus has a totally separate budget from the medical center. And you better believe that you would be feeling the pain as a medical student if your teaching hospitals are going down the tubes. As a sidenote, that "4 billion dollar" endowment wasn't so helpful when they filed chapter 11 a while ago. Oh but we don't like to talk about that. :thumbup: peace

someone's got issues here. we'll just let this be a testament to nyu. anyone want to be bigredpingpong's classmate? :laugh:
 
:sleep:
you_win_the_prize.jpg
 
exmike said:
someone's got issues here. we'll just let this be a testament to nyu. anyone want to be bigredpingpong's classmate? :laugh:


I am bigredpingpong's classmate and since our class, school, education, and location are nothing shy of amazing, I'm PROUD to be bigredpingpong's classmate and go to this stellar institution!

All I have to say is that at the end of the day people are envious-- and from the looks of this thread...

:luck: :D exmike seems to have a big of a green tinge to him :D :luck:
 
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