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NZ/US citizen at UK med school (intern options)

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IMG69

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    So i'm a NZ/US citizen at a UK med school, my plan is to sit step 1 and if I get a high enough score (trying for a competitive specialty) i'll go that route however I know my chances are slim to none. My second option is to graduate and then do the intern year in Ireland and then come back to NZ and work here.

    I was just curious about the Irish intern year, will it be all that difficult for me to obtain a spot? I've looked around online and i'm definitely eligible etc but I was just curious on what my chances are of actually obtaining a spot. If I do a year in Ireland I can easily gain access to the NZ med system without having to sit all these tests etc.

    I've heard the UK is impossible for non-citizens so I ruled that out, so if anyone has any information or could confirm that an intern year in Ireland is realistic that would be great.

    Born and raised in NZ, that's why I didn't go US route, since i'm sure i'll be asked.
     

    phdtomduk

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    I think most of the information in your post is misguided, so I'll try to clarify what I can. I know it can be difficult to find information as an IMG.

    So i'm a NZ/US citizen at a UK med school, my plan is to sit step 1 and if I get a high enough score (trying for a competitive specialty) i'll go that route however I know my chances are slim to none.

    It is extremely difficult to match to the US as an IMG. It is pretty much impossible to match as an IMG to a competitive specialty. IMGs need high step scores just to match to even the least competitive specialties (i.e. internal medicine, family med, peds). Your chances of matching to orthopedic surgery/ENT/ophthalmology/dermatology/most surgical subspecialties is essentially zero. Every year the number of IMGs who match to these specialties are in the single digits and these candidates are absolute superstars who pretty much all have phds, with many having completed specialty training in their home country or having done research for many years in the US. If your heart is set on one of these competitive specialties, do not waste your time trying to go to the US.

    My second option is to graduate and then do the intern year in Ireland and then come back to NZ and work here. I was just curious about the Irish intern year, will it be all that difficult for me to obtain a spot? I've looked around online and i'm definitely eligible etc but I was just curious on what my chances are of actually obtaining a spot. If I do a year in Ireland I can easily gain access to the NZ med system without having to sit all these tests etc.

    It is pretty much impossible to obtain an Irish intern position if you are not an Irish/EU national. Even some Irish/EU nationals do not obtain intern positions because the Irish intern system prioritizes Irish/EU nationals who applied to (and attended) Irish medical schools through CAO (the Irish medical school application). After all Irish/EU CAO applicants obtain an intern position, the next priority is Irish/EU graduates who did not apply through the CAO (i.e. dual nationals, attended medical school outside of Ireland). There are almost no intern positions left over after this. Your chances of obtaining an Irish intern position are essentially zero.

    I've heard the UK is impossible for non-citizens so I ruled that out, so if anyone has any information or could confirm that an intern year in Ireland is realistic that would be great.

    Actually as far as I know, obtaining a residency position in the UK is by far your best and most realistic option. All graduates of UK medical schools are eligible for the UK foundation programme, even non-UK/EU nationals. Are you already attending a UK medical school? This could easily be verified by your school and on the UK foundation programme's website.
     

    IMG69

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    I think most of the information in your post is misguided, so I'll try to clarify what I can. I know it can be difficult to find information as an IMG.



    It is extremely difficult to match to the US as an IMG. It is pretty much impossible to match as an IMG to a competitive specialty. IMGs need high step scores just to match to even the least competitive specialties (i.e. internal medicine, family med, peds). Your chances of matching to orthopedic surgery/ENT/ophthalmology/dermatology/most surgical subspecialties is essentially zero. Every year the number of IMGs who match to these specialties are in the single digits and these candidates are absolute superstars who pretty much all have phds, with many having completed specialty training in their home country or having done research for many years in the US. If your heart is set on one of these competitive specialties, do not waste your time trying to go to the US.



    It is pretty much impossible to obtain an Irish intern position if you are not an Irish/EU national. Even some Irish/EU nationals do not obtain intern positions because the Irish intern system prioritizes Irish/EU nationals who applied to (and attended) Irish medical schools through CAO (the Irish medical school application). After all Irish/EU CAO applicants obtain an intern position, the next priority is Irish/EU graduates who did not apply through the CAO (i.e. dual nationals, attended medical school outside of Ireland). There are almost no intern positions left over after this. Your chances of obtaining an Irish intern position are essentially zero.


    Actually as far as I know, obtaining a residency position in the UK is by far your best and most realistic option. All graduates of UK medical schools are eligible for the UK foundation programme, even non-UK/EU nationals. Are you already attending a UK medical school? This could easily be verified by your school and on the UK foundation programme's website.

    Well aware my chances in the US are essentially non-existent as I stated originally but thanks for the rest of your information, I had no idea about the Irish intern situation, clearly I haven't done my research so just to clarify I will be an EEA applicant but you're saying even then I have essentially no chance of a spot?

    Also sorry I should clarify, I will be attending a UK MBBS Uni in Cyprus, fully GMC approved etc

    In regards to the UK, I have a friend at the University in his final year and he told me that without a UK passport you have essentially no chance of working in the UK due to visa issues? Maybe you could expand on this a bit :)

    I will definitely ask my school about this option. I only need to do PGY-1 in Ireland/UK to return to the NZ system hassle free

    Thanks for all your information.
     

    phdtomduk

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    I had no idea about the Irish intern situation, clearly I haven't done my research so just to clarify I will be an EEA applicant but you're saying even then I have essentially no chance of a spot?

    Why will you be an EEA applicant? Your first post said you had citizenship in US and New Zealand. Do you have EU/EEA citizenship? Without EU/EEA citizenship your chances of getting an intern position in Ireland are zero.

    When I (or anyone else, including the eligibility criteria listed on websites) talk about EU/EEA/UK/Irish/etc. applicants I am talking about people with EU/EEA/UK/Irish citizenship. Not people who just currently live/study in these regions. Occasionally people who are not nationals but have some form of permanent residency are included in these definitions (i.e. unrestricted long term residency, refugee/asylum status), but having a restricted visa (i.e. student visa) almost certainly means you are not considered a permanent resident.

    Also sorry I should clarify, I will be attending a UK MBBS Uni in Cyprus, fully GMC approved etc.

    You did not mention that you are in Cyprus and not in the UK. This makes a huge difference. Graduates of UK medical schools in the UK are automatically eligible for the UK foundation programme, regardless of citizenship. Non-UK/EU graduates of UK approved medical schools outside of the UK are not automatically eligible and must submit an eligibility application. You may need the right to work, but I am not sure about that. This is the UK foundation programme website.

    Your best bet is to talk to your school. Your school almost certainly has applicants going through this every year and can give you guidance on your eligibility for the UK foundation programme. There are probably also other students in similar situations.

    In regards to the UK, I have a friend at the University in his final year and he told me that without a UK passport you have essentially no chance of working in the UK due to visa issues? Maybe you could expand on this a bit

    Is this friend in medical school? The UK foundation programme has different rules about nationality/eligibility than just regular jobs in the UK and fortunately, the programme is willing to give visas to non-EU/UK nationals who graduate from UK medical schools. For fields other than medicine, it is very difficult to get a job in the UK if you need a visa as many employers don't want to sponsor your visa and deal with the hassle. That said, there are obviously many people from around the world who get jobs in the UK so it can be done, it's just harder.
     

    IMG69

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    Thanks for all your info, i'll definitely talk further with the university.

    Thanks a lot
     
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